On 10/30/06, Frank103 > wrote:

> I was reading the reviews for KA on amazon.com and mostly they were
> averaging 4 to 4 1/2 stars. But there were some very unhappy people who
> noted a decline in quality since Hobart sold out to Whirlpool. One reviewer
> mentioned the use of plastic gears instead of metal.

Hobart used A plastic gear also. It is in there so the people who
don't read the manual will strip a cheap gear instead of burning out
an expensive motor.

> Others were unhappy
> that the mixer turned off for a few minutes while kneading when it got
> over-heated. I believe KA starts off with a 300 watt motor for the less
> expensive models. Viking has 800 watts. The link given for the Viking on
> Ebay is up to $400 and it's used. New Vikings on Amazon start around $500
> plus. There's no doubt that Viking is the stronger machine.

Actually, there is reason to wonder.

> But is it worth
> twice the price of a KA? Costco is selling the KA Professional HD model for
> $269. (I would take the use of the word "professional" with many grains of
> salt.)

A big grain of salt.

> However, on the box they proudly announce that the "professional"
> model has direct-drive all steel gear transmission and a 475 watt motor -
> which should be able to serve most people's needs. So I bought one. If I'm
> not happy with it, Costco will take it back and give me a refund.

For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We
bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too
far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink
legally... and a good bit more.

It had a 275 watt motor in it. I routinely mixed 10 pounds of bagels
or 25 pounds of bread dough in it. One batch after another. For
about 5 to 8 hours a day. It ran very nicely.

So, why does a home mixer, intended to mix just a few pounds of bread
dough need an 800 watt motor?

The key difference is simple. The professional mixer has a
transmission in it. The motor runs at an optimum speed and the gears
change the speed of the mixing action.

The home mixer uses a variable speed electric motor. When mixing
dough, it is being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds. Which
electric motors don't like to do. This provides strain throughout the
drive train.

A professional mixer comes with a chart that tells you what your load
limits are, in pounds of product, by product type, and includes limits
on doughs, such as the flour type and hydration. You can make a lot
of cake batter, less bread dough, and much less pizza dough or bagel
dough. My ancient 30 quart mixer could make about 44% as much pizza
dough as bread dough.

KitchenAid says it has X cups of "flour power" They do tell you to
reduce the load of the mixer when using whole grain flours, as they
are harder to mix. They don't mention hydration in their
documentation.

My ancient KitchenAid's manual has a warning that you should let the
mixer cool off for 45 minutes after mixing two batches of bread dough
back to back. I recently asked KitchenAid if ANY of their mixers at
any price could be used to produce back to back batches of dough all
day long. The answer was, no. I do not know why they can call any of
their mixers professional or commercial when they can not tolerate a
professional or commercial workload.

I haven't seen a Viking's instruction manual, but it faces the same
fundamental limitation as the KitchenAid, a variable speed motor. It
is an inapporopriate design choice if you are going to be making lots
of bread. In one of these forums, someone complained that her
KitchenAid died on her. She was on her 4th batch of whole wheat
bread. And each batch was a serious overload of the mixer - if she'd
been using white flour. Is it the mixer's fault she didn't read the
manual? No.. but the mixer was still not the best tool for the job.
If you have a home mixer, regardless of brand, you need to read the
manual and be aware of its limitations.

Hobart, among others, make professional mixers in sizes suitable for home use.

Another option that is frequently mentioned is the Bosch mixer. I
owned one for a while and sold it on eBay. I found the beaters too
fragile for real world use, and the dough hook heated the dough too
much. Neither my employees nor I liked it.

I've played with a Magix Mill/Electrolux Assistent once and it seems a
better design than the Bosch, but you are paying a good bit more. I'd
rather play with a mixer a lot longer before recommending it, though a
friend who's judgement I trust strongly prefers the Electrolux, and
she owns both.

Any tool has to be selected with an eye towards what you are going to
use it for. If you are beating egg whites and making cakes, a
KitchenAid is a great choice. After all these years, I still like my
KitchenAid. If you're doing lots of bread, neither it - nor any
machine with a variable speed motor - is likely to be a good choice.
Especially if you are making whole grain or denser breads.

Mike