Alex Rast wrote:
>
> at Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:51:14 GMT in >,
> (Kate Connally) wrote :
>
> >Alex Rast wrote:
> >
> >Kate Connally wrote:
> >> >Why would you have to chisel it out? If it's kept at the
> >> >proper temperature for ice cream it shouldn't be too hard.
> >>
> >> But any time you use any heating device to "soften" ice cream
> >> (including setting it out on the counter), you're going to get uneven
> >> heating, and generally some melting.
> >
> >That does not really happen. If you do it right
> >there is no melting, just softening - enough to be
> >easily scoopable.
>
> The edges of the container - closest to the place where the temperature is
> larger than that of the initial temperature of the ice cream, are
> inevitably going to heat faster than the center, and if that external
> temperature is above freezing, they will melt. So you'll have a still-solid
> center, a soft "jacket" around that, and a melted rim around that.
Well, that's not what happens. Besides, I believe microwaves
supposedly heat from the inside out. Whether or not that's
the case, in my experience, the whole contained softens almost
equally much, given a not too large container - pint and quart
containers work best - there is a small difference in softness
between the outer portions and the center, but unless you
overdo it the outer portions won't melt.
> If you use a microwave, you're going to exaggerate this problem, because a
> microwave contains hot spots which will cause differential heating through
> the container in rather unpredictable locations.
That's why they put turntables in them. And again, I have
not found this to be a problem with my microwave or with
other microwaves I have used.
> >> Personally, I prefer no melted ice cream
> >> whatsoever. ...
>
> >Me, I actually give my bowl of ice cream some more time
> >in the microwave after scooping it to cause some melting
> >(it's okay here because I'm going to eat it, but it wouldn't
> >be okay if it were the whole carton of ice cream from which
> >I was going to take a portion and then put the rest back
> >in the freezer). I like to have my ice cream about the
> >consistency of frozen custard (soft-serve) which I feel
> >to be ideal for texture and flavor. I then sort of mash
> >the melted part into the still fairly solid part until
> >I get that texture.
>
> My sister says that a lot of people like to do this. To me, however, this
> seems like a circuitous method of achieving a texture that you could get
> using different formulations. I thought from your previous posts, that you
> preferred the very dense, hard consistency of super-premium, but it seems
> that this is not so
I never said I preferred hard, just dense! There's a difference.
I like very dense and rich and cream. But if you (try to) eat it
in its hard state, just out of the freezer, you can't really enjoy
those qualities because you use up all your body heat trying to
melt it enough to swallow or you just swallow it still hard and
totally miss everything. Of course, that's just my experience.
To me, in eating totally frozen ice cream (whether dense like
I like it or less dense like you like it) causes one to miss most
of the flavor elements and all the texture elements. If you hold
it in your mouth long enough to soften it enough so that you *could*
taste the flavor and feel the texture, your mouth is so numbed by
the cold that you still can't taste or feel anything anymore.
> - that you prefer a texture that more closely
> approximates that of Italian ice cream (gelato). Given that this is the
> case, why not make/buy that? If it's exactly the texture of soft serve that
> you like, why not, in turn, make/buy soft serve?
Well, soft serve is not the same thing - different ingredients
and lower quality ingredients generally and very limited flavors.
Actually there used to be a cool place here in Pgh.
where they made their own premium quality ice cream
with many different flavors - a sort of upscale Baskin-
Robbins - and they had a machine into which they would
put the ice cream as you ordered it and it sort of
turned in into soft serve, one portion at a time.
Unfortunately they were only open for a year or so.
I heard that they were closed because the machine
that made the ice cream soft was not sanitary enough
or something. That was only a rumor and didn't really
make sense to me. I really miss that place.
> Finally, if you want an
> even softer consistency, this is a "semifreddo". Same thing applies.
But it's not the same thing!!! I don't want a semifreddo!!!
It's not ice cream!!!! I want real ice cream that is soft.
I just don't think you get it at all.
> Is there a particular appeal to the process of letting ice cream melt and
> then stirring it around? I'd like to know what makes people choose this
> method over simply using the product that has the desired texture at the
> outset.
Because you can't *get* it at the desired texture to begin
with! That's what I've been saying all along! If I could
afford to, I'd have a special freezer just for ice cream that
would hold it at the proper temperature at all times. When
one has to resort to storing their ice cream in a refrig.
freezer compartment along with other foods that must be
kept much colder, one has to be creative! Since the invention
of the microwave and my subsequent discovery that it works
perfectly for softening too-hard ice cream I'm perfectly
content. It's the ideal solution for those whose can't
afford special ice cream freezers!
I love my homemade ice cream best right from the ice
cream churn. Then it has the soft consistency I like.
In fact in the old days before good refrigeration, people
couldn't store ice cream and keep it frozen solid. When
people made homemade ice cream they ate it all up as it
came from the churn. That's the way it should be eaten
as far as I am concerned.
> >As for the ice creams I make, I know what recipe makes
> >the best base and that is what I use.
>
> As I said, I don't believe it's one-size-fits-all when it comes to ice
> cream flavours. Thus I don't believe it's possible to develop a
> standardised "base" to which you simply add flavourings - you have to tune
> each recipe specifically to the flavour being made in order to get the best
> results. Have you experimented with different basic formulations for each
> different flavour? Or have you experimented with either different
> formulations in only one flavour or different flavours in only one formula?
Nope, I don't have the time or energy to do that. I make
great ice cream using the system I have now. I don't feel
a need to try to "make a better ice cream". You may be
perfectly correct that one could experiment and come up
with the optimal formula for any given flavor of ice cream,
but for me I doubt the subtle differences would be worth all
the effort. This whole thing reminds me of my bil who is an
audiophile. Has a great stereo system. Is really fussy about
sound quality. Sometimes uses headphones to block out ambient
noises that would interfer. I hate headphones - I get a sort
of sensory-deprivation feeling using them - and I don't care
if there are minor scratches on an album or if I can hear
minor ambient noises while listening to music. He's always
trying to get it more perfect. I'm content with slightly
imperfect, but still really great music!
> >> >Yeah, if you want to mortgage your house to buy a vanilla bean.
> >> >Do you know how much those things cost???? Yikes!!!!!
> >>
> >> $ 1.59 in the bulk bins at my local co-op. And the beans are
> >> super-fresh and plump.
> >
> >Where the hell do you live????? Vanilla at my local
> >co-op bulk foods place is outrageously expensive and
> >they are way cheaper than supermarkets. They keep the
> >vanilla beans under lock and key rather than putting them
> >out in the bulk spices section because people would steal
> >them.
>
> Seattle. Pretty much all the co-ops out here keep vanilla with all the rest
> of the bulk spices.
>
> >> Even if they were up at $5-6, I would consider this a relatively
> >> trivial expense (after all, how much, really, is $5.00?)
> >
> >Well, to me it's a lot. Must be nice to be rich.
>
> If $5.00 is really so much, why buy ice cream at all?
Duh! Because I like ice cream.
> If you are so hard up
> for cash that $5.00 is a major expense in an absolute sense instead of just
> a relative sense, then it would seem to me that getting ice cream at all is
> a luxury you can't really afford to indulge in.
Oh, give me a break. Because I don't want to waste $5 of
my precious money on just one of the ingredients of the
ice cream I shouldn't eat ice cream at all? I just love it
when people who can afford it tell those of us who can't that
we should just forego it! That is so bogus.
> If it's only expensive in a relative sense (i.e. that on a per-use basis
> the price of extract is less than that of a bean), my point is that unless
> you're making ice cream so routinely and frequently that you'd use up a
> considerable number of vanilla beans on a monthly basis, the extra cost of
> buying vanilla beans would hardly be a significant fraction of your monthly
> income. Therefore it wouldn't be worth much trouble trying to economise on
> vanilla.
Well, the whole thing is moot, anyway, because I never make
plain vanilla ice cream. I prefer fruit flavors in homemade
ice cream. I hardly ever eat plain vanilla ice cream either.
If I buy vanilla I put it in a rootbeer float or I make a sundae,
or put it on a piece of warm pie or something - that's about as
plain as I eat it. I have tasted really good vanilla bean
ice cream and it's delicious. I just don't ever crave a bowl
or cone of vanilla ice cream. So why was I arguing about it?
Well, I know what I would do if I did make plain vanilla ice
cream. It could still happen someday. Stranger things have
happened.
So, are we done now?
Kate
--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?