On 26 Dec 2006 01:04:39 -0800, "ntantiques" >
wrote:

>LurfysMa wrote:
>> First of all, thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions for
>> making turley gravy.
>>
>> The turkey gravy was good, but not great. I'd give it a B or B+. My
>> main complaint was that it had a slightly bitter or harsh taste.
>
>Allspice and basil? Don't think I'd ever be tempted to include or
>combine either of these strong flavors in a traditional turkey gravy.
>Thyme or sage maybe, but not allspice and/or basil.

Several recipes called for basil and a couple of people here
recommended allspice so I tried it. I guess next time I'll go a lot
simpler and then experiment gradually.

>Potato peelings? What did you feel they would add to the flavor of
>your stock?

I dunno. I always heard that most of the flavor and vitamins are in or
just under the skin of vegetables and they were sitting right there.

>You were good to go with onion and carrot (I would have
>added some celery w/tops & Italian parsley and one large Bay Leaf),
>along with the spare turkey parts and black peppercorns. To end up
>with 4 cups of stock, add a good 6 cups of water to the pot with all of
>the parts. Simmer uncovered for a while, skimming any gunky foam, then
>simmer, covered, for a couple of hours and strain before using.

There was really never much of any scum or gunky foam to skim. I was
surprised by that.

>Rather than tossing in "used potato water" to bring your yield to 4C,
>better to plan ahead or add good quality canned chicken stock if you
>grossly miscalculate and come up short. I cook potatoes in "seriously
>salted" water and you may have inadvertantly oversalted your stock by
>diluting it by half with the potato water - not to mention diluting the
>flavor essence of the stock.

The potatoes were cooked in plain water, no salt at all. I'm pretty
sure my mother used to use potato water in her gravy and it was
superb, so I tried it.

>I wait to add salt until I've actually made the gravy and use far less
>than your 1-2 tsp for 4C of gravy. Oversalting doesn't always just
>make a dish taste salty - it can also kick the balance of other flavors
>silly, intensifying the flavors of ingredients in an unpleasant way.

That's just what I did. No salt until the very end, then as little as
possible. None of us like a lot of salt.

>I've used wine periodically in making turkey gravy to deglaze the
>roasting pan - a mellow red - occasionally Marsala or Madeira, but
>never in the stock itself.

I wouldn't have used wine at all, except that several people here
praised it and I had a bottle of chianti open...

>Am thinking you may have burned your flour - and overcooked flour is
>truly nasty. You really don't want the fat/flour mixture to actually be
>brown - when it moves from pasty to a pale golden shade, it's time to
>add liquid.

I think that's a good guess. The recipe I was working from said to
hear 6 Tbsp of fat on high heat, then whisk in the flour until golden
brown. I think my high heat may have been too high and the fat was not
right or maybe there was too much flour as it turned into a very
thick, almost dry, paste. I quickly added more fat and then liquid,
but it might have burned.

>The milk solids in the butter you added may also have burned.

The butter wasn't added until a lot later when everything was very
liquid.

>Sounds like that part of things got complicated for you.
>10-12T for just 4C of gravy is a lot of fat. Something was very "off"
>here.

I agree. I need more practice.

>I gave up on that whole pain in the keester part of gravy making
>years ago and keep Wondra flour on hand. No muss, no fuss, no lumps -
>perfect gravy everytime. Google for Wondra gravy recipes and you'll be
>a star.

I have used Wondra before and it is much easier, but I wanted to be a
"real" gravy maker! ;-)

>Best of luck - am sure the leftovers will be great!

One large turkey casserole comong up.

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