Russ I think this is the post important point so I have taken it out of
the rest of the post and put it first.


You want good answers then pose good questions and be as kind with your
responses as you expect to get from your replies. This is what bothers
me about you and Jim H. I can't speak for anyone else by I suspect this
is the case.


PastorDIC wrote:

> On Jan 19, 1:22 am, "TG" <sou..mail.net> wrote:
> >Jim, you are unbelievable.
> > You don't know Dicky nor anyone in this group. You yourself ask novice
> > questions and ask for polls that are totally unnecessary and utterly
> > pointless and then when someone takes the trouble to give you a
> > reasoned reply you respond with sarcasm. There's a flux of very
> > confused people at the moment in the groups more intent on having their
> > voice heard than taking the advice they ask for. Dickey is the groups
> > 007 licence to grump. I for one believe he has very good motivation and
> > intention. Unlike you with your misguided, confused, hypocritical
> > advice and sarcasm.
>
> Jim-
> Your first line to Jim H is a little unbelievable too. Since you don't
> know everyone in this group either, how can you say a question is
> pointless?

Russ,

Read what I wrote again.

Phrase 1,
> > You .. ask novice questions

Phrase 2,
> > and ask for polls that are totally unnecessary and utterly
> > pointless

Two phrases the utterly pointless refers to the polls.


> Maybe the people frustrated with novice questions should remember back
> to when they first started sourdough and remember what problems you had
> for a fresh perspective.

Russ, don't take things so personally. Honestly mate, the people that
are taking up their own time to answer your questions have been doing
this a long time and though you might not think so there is a lot of
wisdom and compassion in their answers. It is just your ego that is
taking offence. You cannot ask questions then dictate the type of
answer you get. It's like some beggar on the street throwing back the
food he is given because he doesn't like it or the change he was given
because it wasn't enough. You just don't do that. You take it and
politely say thank you. If you don't like it then you just put it
aside. Who knows later on when you know more you might understand why
it was given to you. You cannot be a novice and think you know more
than your teacher. Even if what you think you know more if is about
social skills. You clearly are not more skilled in social arts or you
wouldn't be writing these replies.


> For instance, it may not matter about humidity in Arizona, but up here
> in the northwest we get LOTS of rain and lots of humidity. I wanted to
> know how that might affect sourdough. I can adjust for the cool
> temperatures with a 25w lightbulb. -- I even have pictures of a
> contraption for a proofing box thanks to Dicky despite his sometimes
> caustic responses -- so that I don't have to schedule the oven or
> microwave around what my wife is cooking, but humidity is more
> difficult and I thought I might get answers on humidity from this list.
> Jim H was just responding to a nasty attitude with appropriate
> sarcasm.

No, if you are thinking of yourself as a novice and by asking questions
you are then you respond appropriately. Sarcasm is not appropriate
response to something given freely. *Even if* you don't like it. Think
about it. Do you really think you will get another reply except from
some numpty who's only motivation is to show how 'wonderful' they are.


>
> If I wanted my voice heard rather than wanting to learn something I
> would either state my "learned" opinion about the topics with sourdough
> or be in very poor taste and write in all caps, which would really turn
> people off.


Like Jim J's one word response to me?

>
> On my part of the novice questions, if I had found the answers in a
> book or a FAQ or on past topics in this list I wouldn't be asking them
> here. I ask the questions because I want to learn something.

Yes I agree. But there is always someone willing to answer your
question. There is always an answer from someone here. Unlike in the
yahoo group that someone thinks is so wonderful. You know that is true
otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.



>
> It is also confusing when I start sourdough with recipes from Mike A's
> website, and then am treated like a football player on the bottom of
> the pile when there is a fumble. I tried Mike A's recipes and liked
> them. I used his 100% Whole Wheat Sourdough bread recipe I used as an
> example for some questions. Then - using his recipe - I get jumped on
> by a lot of people on this list as using too many rises, not long
> enough rises, and not knowing what I am doing, when all I was doing was
> following his recipe. I still like Mike A's recipes, but am a little
> bewildered by the responses.

Russ as Mike said to you in his advice which you haven't listened to.
He gave you the answer to that. You don't listen mate. There are many
ways to make bread. Mike makes it the way suits his taste and his
customers tastes. Each has his own way. I'm in London. There are people
all over the US and the world replying to you. Of course they think
that isn't the way. This is what Mike has already said.


>
> For that matter, Jim decides to be nice to Dicky and then is misguided,
> hypocritical, and without advice in his response to Jim H.
> Russ

Russ, I am nice, sometimes, to Dicky because he has way more experience
than I do. I am nice out of respect for someone that has helped me.
Misguided? You'll have to qualify that one. But I can honestly say with
my hand on my heart that my motivation to Jim H was to help. Wrathful
compassion it may be but my motivation is only to help. Like I have
just put in all this time to help you now. I could be out having a
drink in town but I choose to give you my time. Don't be ungrateful.
If you don't like something someone gives you freely don't be a spoiled
brat, be a polite adult, be thankful and put it aside. My advice is
given at my discretion. How dare you demand that I give it to someone
else who is lucky to have got the advice that I gave but responds to me
with rudeness. You really are very confused about how the world works.
Nobody owes you anything until you have put in the hours that people
like Dicky have.

Jim