"baltimoreben" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Aug 26, 2:04 pm, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
> > "baltimoreben" > wrote in message
> >
> > ups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > I used to bake all my bread, now only have time to do so on rare
> > > occasion. unfortunately, as often as not i have the same
> > > unsatisfactory result -- loaves that don't even reach the top of the
> > > pan when they come out of the oven. wondering what might be the
> > > problem, not enough time for experimentation, so looking for educated
> > > guesses from others. in my mind, it could be
> >
> > > __not enough patience on the second rise (my ball fills my largest
> > > bowl for the first, i punch down and do a quick knead, shape and put
> > > in the pans, generally put in the oven when it rises to the top of the
> > > pan, an hour or more later)
> > > __wrong time/temp combination (i generally do 350 for around 40 mins)
> > > __fundamentally the wrong recipe -- i play, but generally i'm making 2
> > > loaves, start with 1 1/4c water, 4 tsp yeast, 1/4 c sweetener, 1/3 c
> > > oil, around 1/2c dry milk, 1 egg, 5 1/2 c flours, 1tsp salt.
> >
> > > thoughts?
> >
> > First -
> >
> > Your oven is way too cool. Try 425F. When you toss in 2 large cold
loaves
> > your temperature is going to drop. This will not give you the lofting
you
> > expect. Preheat the oven to 425 for 30 minutes. This way you won't get
> > nearly such a cooling effect.
> >
> > Next -
> >
> > Dry milk is no good. Use fresh milk.
> >
> > Not enough kneading to build up gluten. Without gluten the dough won't
form
> > those air chambers which make for lighter bread.
> >
> > Old yeast. Use as fresh as you can get.
> >
> > What kind of flour are you using?
> >
> > Proof the yeast for 30 minutes, I use a dash of sugar and then sprinkle
a
> > teaspoon of flour on top. It should be swampy and stinky before
beginning
> > to mount flour
> >
> > What do you use for sweetener? Seems like an awful lot to me for white
> > bread. I use arouind 1 tablespoon total.
> >
> > Contrary to popular belief, I like to do the first rise in a cool area.
I
> > like a slow rise because I think I get better texture. The second rise
is
> > in a warm area. Be sure to use a very slightly, and I mean slightly,
damp
> > towel to cover the bread as it rises in the pans. You do not want a dry
> > crust to form at this stage.
> >
> > Do you slit the top of your loaves? Bakers the world around cut a 1/2
inch
> > deep slash into the loaves. Be artsy as you like. I usually make 3
slashes
> > diagonally.
> >
> > Paul
>
> now we're talking.
>
> 1. age of ingredients. certainly a very distinct possibility. my
> yeast is always within date, but certainly some of the flours i use
> may be too old. the white is always fresh, but when i add in a bit of
> this and that, those may be sitting in the pantry too long.
> 2. i do slit. that's not the issue. i think i probably knead enough
> too.

Try the window test another poster suggested. Gluten allows the bread to
stretch out. You've kneaded enough when you have enough gluten. Usually 15
minutes or until your arms fall off, whichever happens first.

> 3. hotter oven. i was wondering about that the whole time. the kind
> of thing doing this so infrequently has probably slipped my mind.
> good suggestion.

Some people cook on a stone regardless of whether or not they use pans.
Heat is the secret. Constant, steady and high heat.

> 4. the dry milk. my wife's idea. i never used to use it. happily
> drop it.

That will bring your liquids to 2 cups. You'll need more like 7 cups of
flour but this will give you much bigger loaves, too. Remember, you never
measure flour, you add as much as is needed. It varies depending on the
flour, moisture content etc.

> 5. too much first rise. hmm...never thought about that one. been
> using the same bowl for 20 years, stopping it at about the same time
> and having inconsistent results, so figured it had to be something
> after that.

Possibly not a problem then.

> 6. the sweetener. depends what's handy. first choice is honey,
> white or light brown sugars otherwise. never had a problem with
> quantity, and probably not what's impacting the texture/shape.

I seem to recall bread yeasts do not like honey. Can't be sure, so look it
up. Remember they are eating sugars and starches in your bread while it
develops. Feed them what they want.

> well, lots to think about here, including some things easy to address
> right away, some things to play with once i get closer to where i want
> things to be.

I'm betting on gluten and heat as your problems.

Paul
>