"Max Hauser" > wrote in
:

> "enigma" in
> :>
>
> [After describing making tomato catsup regularly]

i wouldn't call it regularly. just every so often when i have
both tomatoes & time.

>> the original American catsups were commonly Concord grape
>> based.
>
> Do you have a source or reference for the originals being
> grape based? I'm interested. As I've been posting here,
> by the early 1800s a variety of catsup recipes were in use.
> Both Eliza Leslie and Mary Randolph's books from that time
> (I'm looking at Randolph's book as I type this) gave
> recipes for tomato catsup/catchup. (The 20th-century
> Fannie Farmer cookbooks that I mentioned in the original
> posting have recipes for grape catsups, by the way.)

i'll have to look those up. were those cookbooks Southern in
origin by any chance? or European?
i did have links to the grape catsup on my dearly departed
computer, but even so, they would be 6 or 7 years old now and
probably dead.
at any rate, i did find this about tomatoes in the early US:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/about/tomato.jsp
>
>> tomato based catsups were unheard of until the late 1800s
>> when it was discovered that tomatoes were not just
>> ornamental, but actually edible.
>
> I believe you must mean "until the 1700s." That's the era
> the 1988 _Larousse Gastronomique_ gives for European
> recognition of tomato edibility. That reference book
> mentions its import from Peru to Spain in the 1500s,
> remaining an ornamental plant, presumed poisonous, until
> the 1700s. Adding also that tomatoes are diuretic,
> laxative, and refreshing.

yes, Europeans ate them far earlier than the English (and,
hence, the Colonies).
here's a grape catsup:

Grape Catsup

Five cupfuls of pulp or juice, one cupful of brown sugar, one
cupful of vinegar, one teaspoonful of black pepper, one
teaspoonful of cloves, one teaspoonful of cinnamon, and one
teaspoonful of salt. Boil half away.

and an apple catsup:

12 tart apples, pared, cored and quartered.
1 c sugar
1 tsp white pepper
1 tsp ground cloves
1 tsp dry mustard
2 white onions, minced
2 c pickling vinegar
2 tsp cinnamon
1 tbsp salt
1/2 c prepared horseradish

Place the apples in a large pot, covered with water.
Cook slowly until the apples are soft and the water has almost
completely evaporated.
Put the apples through a sieve or vegetable mill. You should
have about 1 quart of pulp.
Add the remaining ingredients and heat until boiling.
Reduce heat and simmer for an hour.
Keep refrigerated. Excellent with roast pork, ham, goose or
duck.

i'll vouch for the apple recipe, but i haven't tried the
grapes yet. if there's enough wild grapes (which are, of
course, Concord grapes around here) this year, i will though.

lee