On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:06:57 GMT, "drhowarddrfinedrhoward"
> wrote:

>I have never been able to figure out if I have enough flour during the
>kneading process. I use a dough hook on a mixer but don't mind kneading by
>hand. Sometimes I let the mixer go until it cleans the side of the bowl,
>then knead by hand, adding flour as needed.
>
>What I don't understand is most recipes say add flour until it's sticky but
>doesn't stick to your hands. I get it that far but, if I keep going, it
>seems to get more moist until it does stick to my hands. I'm afraid to keep
>adding flour and making the loaf too dry.
>
>I'm also concerned about making it tough. I thought I read once that
>excessive kneading makes it tough. I've seen pictures of someone testing
>dough by pulling it to see if it "sheets" without breaking. Mine is elastic
>but tends to "break". Is that due to too much flour? Not enough? Or not
>enough kneading?
>

Howdy,

(I saw your other post about starter making, but you are in very good
hands with Samartha...)

I suspect that you may be overly concerned about the amount of flour,
and also the issue of kneading generally.

Most books about bread that I have seen seem to focus on ease rather
than on making the most flavorful bread. That, in my opinion, is the
reason for authors focus on such things as "adding flour until the
dough cleans the sides of the bowl." In my experience, such advice
leads to a clay-like dough texture with a finer crumb, and less taste.

Also related to this is the following idea:

There are three ways to increase the gluten (the glue like protein in
wheat doughs that hold them together and trap gas allowing the loaves
to rise) as bread is being made:

It can be done chemically. Just read a few packages of super market
bread and you will understand.

It can be done mechanically, that is, by kneading.

And, it can be done by hydration alone. If the dry ingredients are
simply mixed with wet ingredients sufficiently to eliminate pockets of
dry flour, the gluten will form on its own.

For rapidly risen doughs that use commercial yeast, gluten formation
by hydration alone is not likely to succeed. That is because it takes
more time than the rapidly growing yeast will allow.

For sourdoughs however, gluten formation by hydration works extremely
well. The slower process allows for the formation of the gluten if the
ingredients are simply mixed rather than kneaded.

All that said, bread making is rather like wine making:

It is easy to add yeasts to grape juice that will rapidly ferment the
stuff. That produces grape juice with less sugar and with alcohol. Few
would call it real wine.

Rapidly produced bread is much the same. It looks like bread, and
sometimes feels like bread. It rarely tastes like bread.

I hope that some of this is of interest to you.

Have fun with your baking, and keep posting...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

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