"williamwaller" > wrote in message
news:mailman.51.1079032047.204.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
> On 3/11/04 11:58 AM, "Ron Anderson" > wrote:
>
> > Ron,
>
> It seems to me that you're on the right track for developing an "airy"
> crumb. My suggestions would be:
>
> 1) increase the proportion of starter in your dough (perhaps trying as
much
> as 1/3 by weight of the finished dough)

By my calculation the starter in the subjct dough was actaully mor than 1/4
closer to 40 % 600 grams flour plus 396 water 11 salt = 1007 total 396 of
that starter.

> 2) a 24 to 48 hour cold aging cycle should take care of all of your flavor
> requirements.
Interesting. I will try that. I was not wanting to over rise it.

> 3) find a warmer spot for the final rise after shaping. I use a covered
bus
> tub in a sunny closed room.
Looks like I should put that other bulb in the microwave.
How warm is to warm?

> 4) possibly most important ==> be very careful not to degas/deflate the
> dough during final shaping. Just ease it from the dough bucket, cut it to
> size, and gently shape. You've got a lot of good "holes" working already.
> Keep 'em.
That is one I so as a rule. Actually I do not cut the dough as I make only
enough for 1 loaf. Just 2 people here and 2 loaves would be a waste as the
second would never hold up.

> 5) Salt affects the "stiffness" of the dough (gram for gram) more than any
> other factor. Adding a 5 or 10 grams to a 1300 to 1400 gram dough won't
move
> the needle on the baker's percentages... but the "feel" or perceived
> hydration level will change considerably.
Please expand on this. salt is one of the more confusing aspects. I have
been keeping it in the 1.8 to 2 % range as I have read in many places. Hence
the 11 grams for a 1000 g loaf.

>
> Not to knock you but I think Dick Adams' flow chart advice is excellent.
> There's a lot of value to visually representing the process. (Dick, I am
> looking for a small blackboard even now and a feng shui consultant to
> position it.)
That may be but I still do not have the time. This is not terribly difficult
proccess mixing flour water and salt.

> Will
>
>
> >
> >
> > http://www.a1sewingmachine.com
> > "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> >> ... to get more flavor/sour in my bread. I decided to push the starter
to
> >> the limits.
> >
> > I am not sure what angle you are attempting to work here, Ron, but there
> > seem to be a lot of numbers and times and times of day, not much about
> > temperature, and in the end you ask:
> >
> > Not really working any angle, but I did assume that the reader would
assume
> > room temperature as it was not stated. I do appologize I know assumption
it
> > the mother of all foul ups. so to clarify 67 dergees whre not stated
> > otherwise.
> >
> >> Now would some of you math wizards confirm or correct me on the
> >> hydration ...
> >
> > It seems to me that the starter should be built to obtain high
fermentation
> > activity. Manipulating the starter to make the bread sour/flavorful
does
> > not make much sense to me. Bread that rises longer gets more sourdough
> > flavors.
> >
> > Well it seems to me that to let the start ferment for 24 hours for most
of
> > the steps I did acomplish a high degree of fermentaion. It is my
> > understanding that the fermentation is what creates the sour. You will
> > notice the long rise of 9.5 hours in the refridgerator and 5 more at
room
> > temparature. Certainly qualifies, at least in my mind, as a long rise.
Where
> > is the documentation on the long rise theory?
> >
> > An easy way to determine the "hydration" is to keep track of the amount
> > of water used (and salt). Then, from the weight of the final dough, the
> > "hydration" can be determined by simple arithmetic. That is to say,
make
> > the dough so that it feels right, and figure out the "hydration", if you
> > must,
> > when you are done.
> >
> > I do not see what salt has to do with hydration. I was using what I
> > believed to be bakers percentage in figuring the hydration. And was
seeking
> > confirmation my calculations were correct. The reason is to compare with
> > other hydrations I have used. This I supose an attampt to balance the
abilty
> > to handle the dough and maintain a moist crumb with the hopes of those
> > elusive large irregular holes.
> >
> > Once I worked in a research lab for a boss who was quite smart (and
> > famous, eventually). To ready himself to conduct a procedure based
> > on readings in the microbiological literature, he would make a sketch,
> > a diagram, on a single page of notebook paper. I guess it could be
> > called a flow chart though its nomenclature was unique to the discipline
> > of the institution. One piece of paper could summarize the result of
many
> > hours of study and planning.
> >
> > Most recipes are not even close to flow charts, but if one is seriously
> > interested in trying to succeed with a recipe, I think it is useful to
> > construct
> > a simple flow chart. Perhaps the information in the referenced post
could
> > be presented in a form more like a flow chart?
> >
> > If you wish to present that information in a flow chart be my guest, I
have
> > neither the time nor inclination to do so.
> >
> > Ron Anderson
> >
>
>
>
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