"Ed Bechtel" > wrote in message
...
> Will shared his bread photos:
>
> Maybe you could share some missing details.
> When I make bread I use 20 percent starter, knead for 10-20 minutes by KA
> machine, let rise once for 2.5 to 4 hours, form loaves onto parchment,
then
> rise a second time either warm 80-85 F, or slowly in a 55 F cooler.
>

Hi Ed,

I know you asked the question of William, but I thought I would add
something.

That is WAY too much kneading in your dough. The trouble with dough kneading
machines (KAs and otherwise) is that they always add energy (heat) to the
dough. Essentially rainsing the dough temperature by adding friction. This
additional heat can break down your gluten proteins (essentially tearing the
bread's muscles). The rule I learned was 4min on speed 1 to incorporate all
ingredients, then 4min on speed 3 to stretch out the gluten. 10min will just
overwork your gluten and could potentially hurt your rises and crumb
production in the oven.

I don't have a KA - the rules I just gave you were the ones we used on the
big mixer, but the principles are the same. At home, I knead everything by
hand - but I also knead very little - usually less than 5 min total. My
process:

1) Mix all ingredients (3min)
2) 2min rest (let the water distribute)
3) 1min kneading
4) 2min rest (let the ware distribute)
5) 2min kneading

Generally by this point I have a nice smooth satiny dough. If I need more
kneading I'll do it - it's virtually impossible to overknead by hand - but
really possible to overknead by machine.

Hope that helps,

Tom