On 4/17/04 10:30 AM, "Tom Stanton" > wrote:

> "Ed Bechtel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Will shared his bread photos:
>>
>> Maybe you could share some missing details.
>> When I make bread I use 20 percent starter, knead for 10-20 minutes by KA
>> machine, let rise once for 2.5 to 4 hours, form loaves onto parchment,
> then
>> rise a second time either warm 80-85 F, or slowly in a 55 F cooler.
>>
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> I know you asked the question of William, but I thought I would add
> something.
>
> That is WAY too much kneading in your dough. The trouble with dough kneading
> machines (KAs and otherwise) is that they always add energy (heat) to the
> dough. Essentially rainsing the dough temperature by adding friction. This
> additional heat can break down your gluten proteins (essentially tearing the
> bread's muscles). The rule I learned was 4min on speed 1 to incorporate all
> ingredients, then 4min on speed 3 to stretch out the gluten. 10min will just
> overwork your gluten and could potentially hurt your rises and crumb
> production in the oven.
>
> I don't have a KA - the rules I just gave you were the ones we used on the
> big mixer, but the principles are the same. At home, I knead everything by
> hand - but I also knead very little - usually less than 5 min total. My
> process:
>
> 1) Mix all ingredients (3min)
> 2) 2min rest (let the water distribute)
> 3) 1min kneading
> 4) 2min rest (let the ware distribute)
> 5) 2min kneading
>
> Generally by this point I have a nice smooth satiny dough. If I need more
> kneading I'll do it - it's virtually impossible to overknead by hand - but
> really possible to overknead by machine.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Tom
>

Ed,

Like Tom (comments above) I am very careful with my kneading. My white
loaves are 15 to 20 percent white wheat pastry flour, the balance is bread
flour. I use Dakota Maid which is a wonderful brand available in the
mid-west. It's specs are very similar to King Arthur. Typical hydration is
around 68%, but it feels less since the wheat husks absorb some additional
water. I build the sponge to incorporate all of the water. I use about 400
grams of starter in the sponge. The starter is refreshed, doubled from 200
grams, the day before.

Kneading is light, perhaps three minutes. Hydration time between mixing and
kneading, however, is about an hour.

I haven't had to fool with steam or baking stones. The bread is aged a day
in the refrigerator then well proofed before it goes in the (gas) oven. My
proofing test is the well known "finger-poke". If you indent the proofing
dough and it doesn't rebound, it's ready to bake.

I like Kenneth's proofing solution. He modified an old refrigerator with a
dual call thermostat (calls for heating or cooling). I'll get around to that
before I get around to steam. Then I could bake with more precision. Open
air proofing needs some attending.

I have been wanting to mill my own white flour for some time. Has anybody in
the group worked on this? I'm looking for suggestions in the roller/flaker
mill area: what brand? what gap specs? and in the sieving area. Do I go to a
chemical or geological materials supply business for screens...

Will


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