Tom Stanton wrote:

<<That is WAY too much kneading in your dough. The trouble with dough kneading
machines (KAs and otherwise) is that they always add energy (heat) to the
dough.
My process:
1) Mix all ingredients (3min)
2) 2min rest (let the water distribute)
3) 1min kneading
4) 2min rest (let the ware distribute)
5) 2min kneading>>

and...
<<... I always recommend a final dough temp, but some people may not
be so interested as marking those ultra specific calculations in the home
environment. >>

Ed responds:

First of all, thank you for your kneading parameters. I was beginning to think
that few people set timers or record their kneading times because I usually see
recipes with "knead until well kneaded" or "I don't know, maybe ten minutes".
Again thank you.

The flours I use most often, Wheatmontana white and whole wheat, are high
protein bread flours that takes a lickin with long machine kneading. My
experience with short kneading cycles is that the final crumb, while a little
more open, is sort of rubbery and does not look professional to me.

When I used less hardy flours including Gold Medal bread flour, the dough
breaks down quickly in the kneading cycle - the hook just smears through the
dough. I've used ice water to improve that problem.

I'm tempted to just try some old fashioned hand kneading per your schedule and
see what happens. Do you use soft wheat flour? Oh, and do you have any photos?

Ed Bechtel