I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
decent used copy now.

I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
ingredients?

Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
finding.

Ian

" >> wrote:

> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar?

It really depsends on the dish. Black vinegar has a much stronger
flavor than regular rice vinegars.

When he (she?) says r3ed or white vinegar, is it referring to *rice*
vinegar? Or are they trying to make these recipes accessible to
American cooks in 1974 by using regular wine vinegar?

-sw

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:41:47 -0400, " >
wrote:

>I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
>decent used copy now.
>
>I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
>got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
>just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
>there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
>asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>ingredients?
>
>Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>finding.
>
>Ian

glad you like delf's book, ian.

as for the vinegar thing, you'll just have to decide what you like.
i'm not too fond of black vinegar, myself. likely as not i've used
rice vinegar, or added small amounts of rice vinegar where he doesn't
call for it.

i also like the hot bean and sweet bean sauces in the small six oz.
cans that are made by the sze chuan food products co. in taiwan,
though delf may disdain them. bruce cost (in 'asian ingredients')
approves, though.

i've been having a craving for his dry fried beef with carrots and
celery for a while now. give it a whack and see what you think.

i did get some szechuan peppercorns from penzeys, and found them to be
a lot fresher and strong tasting (though much more expensive) than the
bags in the asian stores.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:41:47 -0400, " >
> wrote:
>
>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
>> decent used copy now.
>>
>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
>> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
>> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
>> there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
>> asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>> ingredients?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>> finding.
>>
>> Ian
>
> glad you like delf's book, ian.
>
> as for the vinegar thing, you'll just have to decide what you like.
> i'm not too fond of black vinegar, myself. likely as not i've used
> rice vinegar, or added small amounts of rice vinegar where he doesn't
> call for it.
>
> i also like the hot bean and sweet bean sauces in the small six oz.
> cans that are made by the sze chuan food products co. in taiwan,
> though delf may disdain them. bruce cost (in 'asian ingredients')
> approves, though.
>
> i've been having a craving for his dry fried beef with carrots and
> celery for a while now. give it a whack and see what you think.
>
> i did get some szechuan peppercorns from penzeys, and found them to be
> a lot fresher and strong tasting (though much more expensive) than the
> bags in the asian stores.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I went back and re-read what he said, which was that Szechuan used
'white & red' rice vinegars. I'm guessing that red vinegar is really
similar to black vinegar. I quite like black vinegar myself, but I guess
thats something you can vary without going all inauthentic.

I think you mean the red and blue cans of bean sauce, which I have used
and found OK. There is a Japanese brand of 'Toban Jian' (hot bean sauce)
that uses broad beans available at a local Korean supermarket, though
its a small jar for $6 - I might give it a try though.

I have a Penzeys store within striking distance, so I might give them a try.

I'll try that recipe you like soon - once my incoming visitors leave, I
guess. I liked Dunlop's version, so I'll be interested to see what his
turns out like.

Cheers,

Ian

" >> wrote:

> I went back and re-read what he said, which was that Szechuan used
> 'white & red' rice vinegars. I'm guessing that red vinegar is really
> similar to black vinegar. I quite like black vinegar myself, but I guess
> thats something you can vary without going all inauthentic.

Red rice vinegar is more like white rice vinegar. The two are
practically interchangeable IMO, with only a slight difference in
flavor.

The difference between Chinese black vinegar and white rice vinegar
is like the difference between English malt vinegar and American
white vinegar - they are very different.

> I think you mean the red and blue cans of bean sauce, which I have used
> and found OK. There is a Japanese brand of 'Toban Jian' (hot bean sauce)
> that uses broad beans available at a local Korean supermarket, though
> its a small jar for $6 - I might give it a try though.

The best hot bean sauce (in my opinion) is Kim Lan Hot Bean Sauce.
http://www.ettason.com/products_details.asp?id=1146

I've tried them all, too :-)

This one is made with soybeans instead of broad. I've never seen
the ones made from wench beans - which I hear are better (according
to Bruce Cost and Charmaine Solomon). So I guess I haven't tried
them all

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> " >> wrote:
>
>> I went back and re-read what he said, which was that Szechuan used
>> 'white & red' rice vinegars. I'm guessing that red vinegar is really
>> similar to black vinegar. I quite like black vinegar myself, but I guess
>> thats something you can vary without going all inauthentic.
>
> Red rice vinegar is more like white rice vinegar. The two are
> practically interchangeable IMO, with only a slight difference in
> flavor.

A couple of sites I checked out said that red vinegar can be used as a
substitue for black vinegar by the addition of a little sugar. For
instance: "This vinegar is dark colored, but lighter than black rice
vinegar. In any event, you'll never get the two mixed up once you have a
taste - red rice vinegar is an intriguing combination of tart and sweet.
Red rice vinegar can be used as a substitute for black vinegar - just
add a bit of sugar." (http://www.vinegarbook.net/Red_rice_vinegar.shtml).

I don't have any, so I will get some over the weekend so I can play
around with it. It looks like its one way to vary a dish, and help
prevent burnout, which I get if I make a favorite too frequently.


>
> The difference between Chinese black vinegar and white rice vinegar
> is like the difference between English malt vinegar and American
> white vinegar - they are very different.
>
>> I think you mean the red and blue cans of bean sauce, which I have used
>> and found OK. There is a Japanese brand of 'Toban Jian' (hot bean sauce)
>> that uses broad beans available at a local Korean supermarket, though
>> its a small jar for $6 - I might give it a try though.
>
> The best hot bean sauce (in my opinion) is Kim Lan Hot Bean Sauce.
> http://www.ettason.com/products_details.asp?id=1146
>
> I've tried them all, too :-)
>
> This one is made with soybeans instead of broad. I've never seen
> the ones made from wench beans - which I hear are better (according
> to Bruce Cost and Charmaine Solomon). So I guess I haven't tried
> them all
>
> -sw

Thanks for the tip & the link. I'll see if any of the asian stores
around here (Northern VA) carry the Kim Lan brand.

Cheers,

Ian

" >> wrote:

> A couple of sites I checked out said that red vinegar can be used as a
> substitue for black vinegar by the addition of a little sugar. For
> instance: "This vinegar is dark colored, but lighter than black rice
> vinegar. In any event, you'll never get the two mixed up once you have a
> taste - red rice vinegar is an intriguing combination of tart and sweet.
> Red rice vinegar can be used as a substitute for black vinegar - just
> add a bit of sugar." (http://www.vinegarbook.net/Red_rice_vinegar.shtml).
>
> I don't have any, so I will get some over the weekend so I can play
> around with it. It looks like its one way to vary a dish, and help
> prevent burnout, which I get if I make a favorite too frequently.

That will not make an acceptable substitute for black vinegar. Not
by a longshot, IMO. If you must try and find a substitute for
Chinkiang vinegar, use malt vinegar mixed with a little bit of
balsamic. That will get you 75% of the way there.

I just went down as tasted all four of these vinegars, just for
kicks. Red wine vinegar isn't even close to the flavor you get from
a quality black vinegar.

-sw

wrote:
> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
> decent used copy now.
>
> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
> there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
> asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
> ingredients?
>
> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
> finding.
>
> Ian

I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick
up all the copies I see in case folks are desperate for it?
(I really like this book!)

--
Jean B.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:23:42 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

wrote:
>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
>> decent used copy now.
>>
>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
>> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
>> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
>> there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
>> asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>> ingredients?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>> finding.
>>
>> Ian
>
>I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick
>up all the copies I see in case folks are desperate for it?
>(I really like this book!)

i must like mine because it has stains on several pages.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:23:42 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>>> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>>> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>>> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
>>> decent used copy now.
>>>
>>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
>>> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>>> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
>>> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
>>> there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
>>> asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>>> ingredients?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>>> finding.
>>>
>>> Ian
>> I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick
>> up all the copies I see in case folks are desperate for it?
>> (I really like this book!)
>
> i must like mine because it has stains on several pages.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Mine is annotated!

--
Jean B.

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:54:27 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:23:42 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>>>> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>>>> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>>>> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find a
>>>> decent used copy now.
>>>>
>>>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before it
>>>> got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>>>> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever he
>>>> just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also, are
>>>> there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability of
>>>> asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>>>> ingredients?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>>>> finding.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>> I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick
>>> up all the copies I see in case folks are desperate for it?
>>> (I really like this book!)
>>
>> i must like mine because it has stains on several pages.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Mine is annotated!

yeah, mine has notes along with the grease stains.

your pal,
blake

Jean B. wrote:
> wrote:
>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for $1),
>> and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange Peel &
>> Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I didn't have
>> quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am going to find
>> a decent used copy now.
>>
>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before
>> it got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says the
>> vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that wherever
>> he just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black vinegar? Also,
>> are there any other quirks in the book where the greater availability
>> of asian goods these days would cause you to use somewhat different
>> ingredients?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>> finding.
>>
>> Ian
>
> I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick up all the
> copies I see in case folks are desperate for it? (I really like this book!)
>

I found a copy on http://www.half.ebay.com/ for $4 plus postage. There
were several more available there, so I think supply and demand are in
balance! If I still like it as much as I do now after playing around
with it some more, I might accumulate more copies as gifts and backup.

Cheers,

Ian

wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> I finally found a really far-too-used copy of this 1974 book (for
>>> $1), and am impressed with it. I made a killer Chicken with Orange
>>> Peel & Dried Red Peppers dish last night from it, even though I
>>> didn't have quite enough of all the ingredients it required. So I am
>>> going to find a decent used copy now.
>>>
>>> I know some of the people who post here (or used to post here before
>>> it got so quiet) have the book, and I have a question - Delfs says
>>> the vinegar used is usually white or red - would you think that
>>> wherever he just lists vinegar you'd be justified in using black
>>> vinegar? Also, are there any other quirks in the book where the
>>> greater availability of asian goods these days would cause you to use
>>> somewhat different ingredients?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice, and for alerting me that this was a book worth
>>> finding.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>
>> I occasionally see this book in my wanderings. Should I pick up all
>> the copies I see in case folks are desperate for it? (I really like
>> this book!)
>>
>
> I found a copy on http://www.half.ebay.com/ for $4 plus postage. There
> were several more available there, so I think supply and demand are in
> balance! If I still like it as much as I do now after playing around
> with it some more, I might accumulate more copies as gifts and backup.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
>
Okay. I'll hold off. Maybe.

--
Jean B.