Hello to all.

Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?

Thanks

--
|Demoness Abigor|net.goth|The Pinkest Deceptagon in da world!
| | http://goddess_abigor.livejournal.com
|AIM|AbigorBot|
|Josh: you mentioned Transformers! and didn't use the words "are lame"
in the same sentence! you are my dream girl!
|JROCKROLEPLAY at Live Journal| http://www.earth-inferno.com/jrockroleplay/

Demoness Abigor wrote:

> Hello to all.
>
> Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
> vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
> feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?

Other than mashing them into a meatball mixture, tempura is the only
other item that comes to mind. When I was a kid, my mother used to buy
french fries that were made from mashed vegetables. We love `em.

--
Dan

"Demoness Abigor" > wrote in message
...
> Hello to all.
>
> Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
> vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
> feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?
>
> Thanks
>
The easiest way to hide vegetables is by making sushi rolls with fish and
veggie combinations (salmon thin, cooked carrots work nicely). The second
easiest is to blindfold him, then tie him ot a chair and force-feed him. No
doubt there is a connection between his continuing dislike of vegetables and
your willingness to hide them from him; it might be easier to tell him that
he needs to find at least two vegetables he can stand and learn how to make
those, rather than having an unhealthy slug around the house who needs to be
babied. When I told my partner I hated veggies, he simply kept serving them
until I found some I liked- and made it clear that if I didn't find some I
liked, I could look for another boyfriend.

While there's no doubt that tempura is delicious, a true 'veggie hater'
won't be fooled. That's fine if your husband is five years old, but at some
point he needs to learn the joy of having something else in his diet besides
starches and meats, perhaps before his teeth and hair fall out from
malnutrition which is a real risk for veggie-avoiders.

Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl pants,
but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a Klingon
diner is very cool indeed. Besides- okonomiyaki ( a veggie 'pancake' mixed
with egg and topped with meat as well as paper-thin bonito flakes) looks
really freaky, with the bonito flakes moving from the heat of the pancake

"Demoness Abigor" > wrote in message
...
> Hello to all.
>
> Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
> vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
> feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?
>
> Thanks
>

That is a tough request. Japanese cuisine is as heavy on vegetables as it is
on fish, meat and rice.
Even in tenpura, only in a kakiage form would the contents not seem like
obvious vegetables.
What kind of vegetables does your husband not like?
Tororo Imo is not vegetanbe like but one would have to be able to eat it.
Can he eat seaweeds like nori , wakame and hjiki? They are pretty
non-vegetable like.

"Tea" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
pants,
> but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a Klingon
> diner is very cool indeed.


Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing people
to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?

Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one fat.
Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some cultures
vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking of
Eskimos and Tibetans.

Peter

[...]

Peter Dy wrote:

> "Tea" > wrote in message
> ...
> [...]
>
>>Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
>>
> pants,
>
>>but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a Klingon
>>diner is very cool indeed.
>>
>
>
> Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing people
> to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
>
> Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one fat.
> Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some cultures
> vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking of
> Eskimos and Tibetans.

Yes, but neither of the cultures have booming populations.

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Dy wrote:
>
> > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > [...]
> >
> >>Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
> >>
> > pants,
> >
> >>but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
Klingon
> >>diner is very cool indeed.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing
people
> > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
> >
> > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one
fat.
> > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
cultures
> > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking
of
> > Eskimos and Tibetans.
>
> Yes, but neither of the cultures have booming populations.


I don't understand.

And it seems like the Tibetans do have a birth rate (14 per thousand) that
is higher than western European countries and higher than that of Chinese.
(Though this is only after Tibet was incorporated into the PRC. There life
expectancy has also jumped up by 30 years after the Chinese took over. Due
to greater exposure to vegetables?)

I was just saying that if one eats 2 bowls of rice with meat every day for
lunch and dinner, while someone else is eating salads laden with fatty
dressings, followed by a steak, steamed brocolli, and a buttered baked
potato for lunch and dinner, that the latter will get fatter due to higher
caloric intake, even though vegetables are part of the latter's diet.


Peter

Peter Dy > wrote:
+ Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one fat.

There's been long debates about this. Half the debate claims that
not eating vegetables will make one unhealthy, no matter if one is fat
or not. The other half says that simply losing weight is good enough
to become more healthy. Both sides may very well be right.

I generally consider myself to hate vegetables. However, I love various
forms and preparations of wakame and konbu, I like cucumbers inside
sushi, I like bean sprouts in yakisoba, I like Chinese cabbage in
sukiyaki, and I even like broccoli tempura. The various root-type
veggies (like lotus root and leeks) don't seem veggie-ish to me either.
If they have to be hidden, you can put veggies in gyoza (but they get
harder to wrap as the veggie ratio increases) and I've seen greenery
sticking out of tamago sushi before. I don't know if yams or edamame
count as vegetables (the probably count as starch and protein, but they
come from plants, at least), but those are good too. For non-Japanese
dishes, I like tomatoes (raw), stuffed bell peppers, grilled zucchini (on
a beef skewer), and spinach, mushroom, and mozzerella omelets. If you
throw enough mandarin oranges, cranberries, nuts, feta, and balsamic
vinagrette on spinach, I'll eat the spinach to get the other stuff.
If you make your own fresh (or almost-fresh...) fruit smoothies or
shakes, it's generally possible to drop some carrot, celery, lettuce
or other veggie stuff into the shake without being able to taste it,
especially if you use banana. Blended-up bananas tend to cover up
a lot of things, and smoothies/shakes are a delicious way to use up
Costco-portioned fruits and veggies very quickly if they're on the verge
of going bad (hence the almost-fresh comment).

I agree with the other poster -- if someone is steadfastly refusing
to give any sort of veggies a chance just because they're veggies, they
need to progress beyond the mental age of 5. Beyond that, there's very
likely some form of veggie or another that can be prepared in a way that
is palatable to any taste.

Tea > wrote:
[about a veggie hater husband]
+ at some point he needs to learn the joy of having something else in
+ his diet besides starches and meats

Yes, like candy, nuts, and chocolates!
Or, better yet, candied nuts _in_ chocolate! ;-)

There's a whole lot more to eat than starches, meats, and veggies...

Demoness Abigor > wrote:
+ Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
+ vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
+ feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?
[...]
+ |Demoness Abigor|net.goth|The Pinkest Deceptagon in da world!
[...]
+ |Josh: you mentioned Transformers! and didn't use the words "are lame"
+ in the same sentence! you are my dream girl!

I take it Josh is your husband...?

I forgot to mention eggplant. It tends to be one of the more meat-like
veggies. And mushrooms, but they probably don't count as veggies.
Miso and curry can often make veggies more palatable too.

It would probably be easier to come up with something useful if you
mentioned what your husband _does_ like. If he's a steak person, then
maybe you want to look more for a veggie-in-meat thing. (As a meat-lover,
I know that, no matter what the propaganda might say, there's just _no_
substitute for meat. Mushrooms and eggplants still need a side or a mix
of _real_ meat.) If he likes starches, maybe try yams or mixing things
into mashed potatoes and frying it (although that might be Hawaiian
rather than Japanese?). If he likes sweets, maybe aim for something like
crystalized ginger or stuff with green bean or red bean (although
those might not qualify as veggies anymore either). And so on.

"Betty Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Tea > wrote:
> [about a veggie hater husband]
> + at some point he needs to learn the joy of having something else in
> + his diet besides starches and meats
>
> Yes, like candy, nuts, and chocolates!
> Or, better yet, candied nuts _in_ chocolate! ;-)
>
> There's a whole lot more to eat than starches, meats, and veggies...

Ah, yes. The other three food groups...
Actually, where my family is from, the four food groups are meat, lard,
starch and sugar.
Protein can keep you lean. However, there have been numerous studies in the
Atkins diet and others that show an all or nearly all protein diet does put
a strain on the heart after a while, and leaves the body vitamin-deficient.
I love a good piece of meat, but meat by itself will not keep you healthy.
Besides, many veggie-haters use the 'meat is good for you' as an excuse to
eat carb-heavy foods like processed meat fast food, which is full of sugar
and starch. We now know that Mickey D's isn't good for anybody except the
stock-holders.

Even is the Demoness' husband has reverted (or progressed- yum) to eating
meat cooked over a fire or inthe oven, if the cuts are fatty or excessive,
he'll still get fat. 4,00 calories of Kobe beef is still 4,000 calories, no
matter how you (sorry, couldn't resist) slice it. Since I've yet to find a
veggie eater that lives on steak Tartare, though, I think we can assume that
starch is a major supplement to hubby's diet. Chances are that hubby is not
a health freak, so all the bread and pasta is probably made out of white
flour and sugar, which are bad for the body in large amounts. Add butter or
oils for frying those egg sandwiches, and you'll be keeping both your
dentist and your heart specialist very happy indeed. Even people with fast
metabolisms have been know to get heart attacks from such diets.
Which still leaves me with the contention that too much meat and starch
(particularly the way Americans eat it) is not good for anybody. I think
even Dr. Atkins would agree on that one. If he didn't, he wouldn't be a
zillionaire by now- because as we keep getting told, Americans are way too
fat, and they didn't get that way from having a meat diet of fresh fish or
lean cuts of meat.

>

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
y.com...
>
> "Tea" > wrote in message
> ...
> [...]
> > Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
> pants,
> > but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
Klingon
> > diner is very cool indeed.
>
>
> Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing
people
> to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?

Kinda. A lot of Goth women call their guys 'bois'. One thing about many
Goths- a lot of them see thinness as an ideal. And a lot of the guys look
real cute in leather and vinyl pants.

If women have been gotten to exercize and eat right by appeals to their
vanity, men who are fashion conscious can too.
>
> Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one fat.
> Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
cultures
> vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking of
> Eskimos and Tibetans.

But they also don't eat tons of meat, either, especially in comparison to
their work load. Most US meat eaters are driving around in SUVs, not
plowing the field with oxen or catching dinner through ice-fishing.

"Betty Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Demoness Abigor > wrote:
> + Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
> + vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
> + feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?
> [...]
> + |Demoness Abigor|net.goth|The Pinkest Deceptagon in da world!
> [...]
> + |Josh: you mentioned Transformers! and didn't use the words "are lame"
> + in the same sentence! you are my dream girl!
>
> I take it Josh is your husband...?


OK, now I see why this "goth" stuff came up. Hehe. I thought Demoness was
a first name.

I say, let Josh be a carnivore. Just because the mainstream tells you to
eat vegetables, doesn't mean you got to follow them like lemmings, does it?
There are vegetarians, there are even vegans, so why not carnivorians? More
power to Josh, I say.

Met a handsome, young, slim Norwegian a few years back who grew up on a
farm. He didn't like veggies either. What vegetables do you like?
"Chicken," he told me. It will be fine. Lots of cultures out there who
aren't vegetable-obsessed.

Peter

PS. Just don't let him eat so much that he looks bad in black vinyl pants.

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Peter Dy wrote:
> >
> > > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > [...]
> > >
> > >>Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
> > >>
> > > pants,
> > >
> > >>but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
> Klingon
> > >>diner is very cool indeed.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing
> people
> > > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one
> fat.
> > > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
> cultures
> > > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking
> of
> > > Eskimos and Tibetans.
> >
> > Yes, but neither of the cultures have booming populations.
>
>
> I don't understand.
>
> And it seems like the Tibetans do have a birth rate (14 per thousand) that
> is higher than western European countries and higher than that of Chinese.
> (Though this is only after Tibet was incorporated into the PRC. There
life
> expectancy has also jumped up by 30 years after the Chinese took over.
Due
> to greater exposure to vegetables?)
>
> I was just saying that if one eats 2 bowls of rice with meat every day for
> lunch and dinner, while someone else is eating salads laden with fatty
> dressings, followed by a steak, steamed brocolli, and a buttered baked
> potato for lunch and dinner, that the latter will get fatter due to higher
> caloric intake, even though vegetables are part of the latter's diet.
>
>
> Peter
>

But Tibet actually proves what I'm saying!
Starches and lots of meat will make people fat. Those starches can come in
the form of heavily sugared and oiled salad dressings out of a bottle and
the meat can be a Wendy's special. If you have a high caloric intake (and
the way most of us eat, we do) you'll get fat. But the Demoness wasn't
asking about how to serve her husband Seven Seas salad dressing- if you
slather your salad with that, you're not going to lose weight. The same
thing applies to tempura- frying veggies after battering them and making
that a staple of one's diet is dangerous.
Luckily, no one in Tibet eats that way. Many Tibetans also get constant
exercize, which is important to maintaining weight loss and keeping muscle
tone. But are a lot of people fooling themselves when they pour the dressing
on the chicken Ceasar salad? Yes. Read the salad dressing label- one is
only supposed to use a small amount. Actually, it's cheaper and better to
use you own, which won't contain salts, sugars, or starches.

All of this ignores that a grwon man ought to be able to eat vegetables
without his wife 'hiding them'. As a culture I think we are often way too
indulgent about food- our bodies crave sweets and fats, and so we now put
both in everything to near exclusion of common sense. One of my co-workers
pretty much lives on McDonald's because he likes meat. But what he doesn't
realize is that there's hardly any meat there- he's eating mostly starch and
sugar. The same would be true if he bought a McDonnald's salad and used all
the dressing in the packeage.

"Tea" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> y.com...
> >
> > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > [...]
> > > Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in vinyl
> > pants,
> > > but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
> Klingon
> > > diner is very cool indeed.
> >
> >
> > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing
> people
> > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
>
> Kinda. A lot of Goth women call their guys 'bois'. One thing about many
> Goths- a lot of them see thinness as an ideal. And a lot of the guys look
> real cute in leather and vinyl pants.


Ah, thanks.


> If women have been gotten to exercize and eat right by appeals to their
> vanity, men who are fashion conscious can too.
> >
> > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one
fat.
> > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
> cultures
> > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking
of
> > Eskimos and Tibetans.
>
> But they also don't eat tons of meat, either, especially in comparison to
> their work load. Most US meat eaters are driving around in SUVs, not
> plowing the field with oxen or catching dinner through ice-fishing.


Goths drive SUVs?! No, that's not good.

And the OP didn't say that her husband ate "tons of meat." I think it is
possible to eat no vegetables and still be healthy and slim.

Peter

"Tea" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Peter Dy wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > [...]
> > > >
> > > >>Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in
vinyl
> > > >>
> > > > pants,
> > > >
> > > >>but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
> > Klingon
> > > >>diner is very cool indeed.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for
convincing
> > people
> > > > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes
one
> > fat.
> > > > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
> > cultures
> > > > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm
thinking
> > of
> > > > Eskimos and Tibetans.
> > >
> > > Yes, but neither of the cultures have booming populations.
> >
> >
> > I don't understand.
> >
> > And it seems like the Tibetans do have a birth rate (14 per thousand)
that
> > is higher than western European countries and higher than that of
Chinese.
> > (Though this is only after Tibet was incorporated into the PRC. There
> life
> > expectancy has also jumped up by 30 years after the Chinese took over.
> Due
> > to greater exposure to vegetables?)
> >
> > I was just saying that if one eats 2 bowls of rice with meat every day
for
> > lunch and dinner, while someone else is eating salads laden with fatty
> > dressings, followed by a steak, steamed brocolli, and a buttered baked
> > potato for lunch and dinner, that the latter will get fatter due to
higher
> > caloric intake, even though vegetables are part of the latter's diet.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
>
> But Tibet actually proves what I'm saying!
> Starches and lots of meat will make people fat.


But that's what most Tibetans eat! Butter-rich tsampa and yak meat. Even
the Dalai Lama.


Those starches can come in
> the form of heavily sugared and oiled salad dressings out of a bottle and
> the meat can be a Wendy's special. If you have a high caloric intake (and
> the way most of us eat, we do)


Hey, who's "we"?


you'll get fat. But the Demoness wasn't
> asking about how to serve her husband Seven Seas salad dressing- if you
> slather your salad with that, you're not going to lose weight. The same
> thing applies to tempura- frying veggies after battering them and making
> that a staple of one's diet is dangerous.
> Luckily, no one in Tibet eats that way.


Amen.


Many Tibetans also get constant
> exercize, which is important to maintaining weight loss and keeping muscle
> tone.


True.


But are a lot of people fooling themselves when they pour the dressing
> on the chicken Ceasar salad? Yes. Read the salad dressing label- one is
> only supposed to use a small amount. Actually, it's cheaper and better to
> use you own, which won't contain salts, sugars, or starches.
>
> All of this ignores that a grwon man ought to be able to eat vegetables
> without his wife 'hiding them'.


I agree. But we don't know if he is fat or not. If he isn't, maybe we're
just graping at trendy, "heathty eating" propaganda.


As a culture I think we are often way too
> indulgent about food- our bodies crave sweets and fats, and so we now put
> both in everything to near exclusion of common sense. One of my
co-workers
> pretty much lives on McDonald's because he likes meat. But what he
doesn't
> realize is that there's hardly any meat there- he's eating mostly starch
and
> sugar. The same would be true if he bought a McDonnald's salad and used
all
> the dressing in the packeage.


Good point.

Peter

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Tea" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> > y.com...
> > >
> > > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > [...]
> > > > Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in
vinyl
> > > pants,
> > > > but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
> > Klingon
> > > > diner is very cool indeed.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for convincing
> > people
> > > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
> >
> > Kinda. A lot of Goth women call their guys 'bois'. One thing about many
> > Goths- a lot of them see thinness as an ideal. And a lot of the guys
look
> > real cute in leather and vinyl pants.
>
>
> Ah, thanks.
>
>
> > If women have been gotten to exercize and eat right by appeals to their
> > vanity, men who are fashion conscious can too.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes one
> fat.
> > > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
> > cultures
> > > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm thinking
> of
> > > Eskimos and Tibetans.
> >
> > But they also don't eat tons of meat, either, especially in comparison
to
> > their work load. Most US meat eaters are driving around in SUVs, not
> > plowing the field with oxen or catching dinner through ice-fishing.
>
>
> Goths drive SUVs?! No, that's not good.

It has been known to happen. They even have kids and soccer games.
>
> And the OP didn't say that her husband ate "tons of meat." I think it is
> possible to eat no vegetables and still be healthy and slim.
>
> Peter

It is possible to be slim. But is it healthy? Not according to heart
specialists.
>
>

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tea" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > >
> > > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Peter Dy wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "Tea" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > > >>Another way of convincing him- fat goth bois don't look good in
> vinyl
> > > > >>
> > > > > pants,
> > > > >
> > > > >>but eating food that looks to many Americans as if it came from a
> > > Klingon
> > > > >>diner is very cool indeed.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hehe! That's one of the funnier suggestions I've seen for
> convincing
> > > people
> > > > > to keep slim. Is "bois" a typo? Or is it like "rulez"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables makes
> one
> > > fat.
> > > > > Doesn't it have to do with caloric intake? I thought that in some
> > > cultures
> > > > > vegetables are rarely eaten, yet the people aren't fat -- I'm
> thinking
> > > of
> > > > > Eskimos and Tibetans.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, but neither of the cultures have booming populations.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't understand.
> > >
> > > And it seems like the Tibetans do have a birth rate (14 per thousand)
> that
> > > is higher than western European countries and higher than that of
> Chinese.
> > > (Though this is only after Tibet was incorporated into the PRC. There
> > life
> > > expectancy has also jumped up by 30 years after the Chinese took over.
> > Due
> > > to greater exposure to vegetables?)
> > >
> > > I was just saying that if one eats 2 bowls of rice with meat every day
> for
> > > lunch and dinner, while someone else is eating salads laden with fatty
> > > dressings, followed by a steak, steamed brocolli, and a buttered baked
> > > potato for lunch and dinner, that the latter will get fatter due to
> higher
> > > caloric intake, even though vegetables are part of the latter's diet.
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> >
> > But Tibet actually proves what I'm saying!
> > Starches and lots of meat will make people fat.
>
>
> But that's what most Tibetans eat! Butter-rich tsampa and yak meat. Even
> the Dalai Lama.

Neither of which are processed with sugar and starch. I suspect from having
read people's past posts and email addresses that most of us on this list
live in the US, Canada, or Britain- countries that are known for processed
foods. While everyone in those countries doesn't eat processed foods, most
of us have at some point.
>
>
> Those starches can come in
> > the form of heavily sugared and oiled salad dressings out of a bottle
and
> > the meat can be a Wendy's special. If you have a high caloric intake
(and
> > the way most of us eat, we do)
>
>
> Hey, who's "we"?

Probably most people reading this list in English? As individuals, you and
I might not eat this way. But most people in primarily English speaking
countries (we're on an English-language list; if this list was in Tibetan or
Inuit, that would be another story) eat too much starch and fat, don't work
it off, and takt that starch and fat in processed form (i.e., added sugars,
starches and highly-processed oils).
I actually grew up inthe US in a family where most of the foods were
homemade, and I seem to have a lower tolerance for the taste of processed
foods than most people I know. I'd still include myself in the 'we', though,
because I've been exposed to fast food culture, and often have to remind
myself not to eat or drink certain things. Granted, this is an Asian food
list, and many of us now or have always eaten primarily Asian foods that are
not highly processed. However, the Demoness was asking how to hide veggies
from her husband- I have a feeling that if her husband had been raised on
Asian cuisine, she wouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
> you'll get fat. But the Demoness wasn't
> > asking about how to serve her husband Seven Seas salad dressing- if you
> > slather your salad with that, you're not going to lose weight. The same
> > thing applies to tempura- frying veggies after battering them and making
> > that a staple of one's diet is dangerous.
> > Luckily, no one in Tibet eats that way.
>
>
> Amen.
>
>
> Many Tibetans also get constant
> > exercize, which is important to maintaining weight loss and keeping
muscle
> > tone.
>
>
> True.
>
>
> But are a lot of people fooling themselves when they pour the dressing
> > on the chicken Ceasar salad? Yes. Read the salad dressing label- one is
> > only supposed to use a small amount. Actually, it's cheaper and better
to
> > use you own, which won't contain salts, sugars, or starches.
> >
> > All of this ignores that a grwon man ought to be able to eat vegetables
> > without his wife 'hiding them'.
>
>
> I agree. But we don't know if he is fat or not. If he isn't, maybe we're
> just graping at trendy, "heathty eating" propaganda.

Nope. I'm not a trendy eater. I grew up on ham hocks and collard greens. I
see fat as a food group, and a yummy one, too. I love meat. But trendiness
doesn't explain why kids are turning into balloons from eating fast food and
sweetened processed foods. Not does it explain that high blood pressure in
African Americans seems to be linked to the amount of fat and starch they
eat- since basic soul food in reasonable amounts is actually a healthy diet,
but most people who eat sould food now add extra grease and starch, and use
meat as the main event, not as a seasoning. Trendiness does not account for
findings that unsaturated fats like olive oil are good for you, but it's
long been known that oils used multiple time for frying pick up chemicals
that are toxic to humans- so that the way in which a small amount of oil is
used in a Mediterranean or Chinese dish is not the same as cooking french
fries with used oil.

All cultures contain fat, oils, starches. How those items are prepared and
eaten makes a difference- and it's not just tredy doctors saying it. Food
ways and their effect on the health, weight, and height of various
populations have also been noted by anthropologists, who are not exactly the
most trendy people (I'm one, and we can hardly dress ourselves most of the
time, let alone spot trends).
>
>
> As a culture I think we are often way too
> > indulgent about food- our bodies crave sweets and fats, and so we now
put
> > both in everything to near exclusion of common sense. One of my
> co-workers
> > pretty much lives on McDonald's because he likes meat. But what he
> doesn't
> > realize is that there's hardly any meat there- he's eating mostly starch
> and
> > sugar. The same would be true if he bought a McDonnald's salad and used
> all
> > the dressing in the packeage.
>
>
> Good point.
>
> Peter
>
>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:49 GMT, "Tea" > wrote:


>But Tibet actually proves what I'm saying!
>Starches and lots of meat will make people fat. Those starches can come in
>the form of heavily sugared and oiled salad dressings out of a bottle and
>the meat can be a Wendy's special. If you have a high caloric intake (and
>the way most of us eat, we do) you'll get fat. But the Demoness wasn't
>asking about how to serve her husband Seven Seas salad dressing- if you
>slather your salad with that, you're not going to lose weight. The same
>thing applies to tempura- frying veggies after battering them and making
>that a staple of one's diet is dangerous.
>Luckily, no one in Tibet eats that way. Many Tibetans also get constant
>exercize, which is important to maintaining weight loss and keeping muscle
>tone. But are a lot of people fooling themselves when they pour the dressing
>on the chicken Ceasar salad? Yes. Read the salad dressing label- one is
>only supposed to use a small amount. Actually, it's cheaper and better to
>use you own, which won't contain salts, sugars, or starches.
>
>All of this ignores that a grwon man ought to be able to eat vegetables
>without his wife 'hiding them'. As a culture I think we are often way too
>indulgent about food- our bodies crave sweets and fats, and so we now put
>both in everything to near exclusion of common sense. One of my co-workers
>pretty much lives on McDonald's because he likes meat. But what he doesn't
>realize is that there's hardly any meat there- he's eating mostly starch and
>sugar. The same would be true if he bought a McDonnald's salad and used all
>the dressing in the packeage.

The sermon has ended. Go in peace.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:15:00 -0400, Demoness Abigor
> wrote:

>Hello to all.
>
>Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
>vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
>feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?

I'd approach it a bit differently:
What is it he doesn't like about them? I grew up thinking I hated all
veggies except lettuce because my mother overcooked all of them to
suit my father's taste. I didn't realize that was the problem until I
got a taste of raw or blanched veggies with some natural sweetness and
texture left. My epiphacy BTW came with just blanched fresh broccoli
chilled and dipped in homemade (and fairly lo cal) buttermilk
dressing. Bright green, with sweetness left in it contrasting nicely
with the tangy buttermilk and any strong taste that might have still
scared me off deadened a bit by chilling it.

Which veggies doesn't he like - a variation on what doesn't he like
about them. For example, beets quite literally make me gag but I love
beet greens. So if it's all the strong tasting ones like beets then
try something like mild oriental greens in a stir fry with other
ingredients, so it doesn't look like force feeding him something he
already thinks he won't like. You might consider stuffed veggies in
the same light - where he can get enough of the flavors he likes to
make him forget about the one he thinks he won't like and be
pleasantly surprised. Which I guess is my general thought - rather
than preparing a vegetable dish for him, which it sounds like he's
programmed himself to dislike without trying, try to figure out more
exactly what to minimize about veggies, then include them with stuff
he will like to build up a broader tolerance.

Kim
Play the percentages to reply

Tea > wrote:
+ But are a lot of people fooling themselves when they pour the dressing
+ on the chicken Ceasar salad? Yes.

Not necessarily. Some people have been convinced that you really need
to choke your veggies down and that getting those fiber, vitamins, and
spiritual sunlight-grown plant energy (or whatever) into your system is
worth the extra salts, sugars, fats, and whatever needed to make it
palatable. For those people, they're not fooling themselves -- they
think the plant matter is worth the other stuff.

+ Read the salad dressing label- one is only supposed to use a small amount.
+ Actually, it's cheaper and better to use you own, which won't contain
+ salts, sugars, or starches.

Um. If there's no salts, sugars, or starches, what's left to put in
the dressing? Pure fat? I think I'd rather go out and buy a fat-free
balsamic vinagrette with a small amount of salt, sugar, and starch than
dump home-made lard on my salads. The balsamic vinagrette probably
tastes significantly better too.

+ All of this ignores that a grwon man ought to be able to eat vegetables
+ without his wife 'hiding them'. As a culture I think we are often way too
+ indulgent about food- our bodies crave sweets and fats, and so we now put
+ both in everything to near exclusion of common sense.

How is it "common sense" that the things your body craves are bad for you?
How is it "common sense" that we arguably have absolutely no idea what
our bodies really crave and that our "cravings" are very likely the
product of the preferences of our peers and the ads on TV? True human
"common sense" probably died out when we started making changes to
ourselves and the planet faster than evolution can take effect.

+ One of my co-workers
+ pretty much lives on McDonald's because he likes meat. But what he doesn't
+ realize is that there's hardly any meat there- he's eating mostly starch and
+ sugar. The same would be true if he bought a McDonnald's salad and used all
+ the dressing in the packeage.

For a year (shortly after I dropped most of my cash on a downpayment),
I was having Burger King on a daily basis. It was all about the price
-- it was really, really cheap. I think people initially eat fast food
mostly because it's cheap, and then (like Mac & Cheese) start to develop
a taste for it. I'd argue that people who _really_ like meat tend to
go for steak and ribs once they can afford it. (Mmm...)

Betty Lee wrote:

> How is it "common sense" that the things your body craves are bad for you?
> How is it "common sense" that we arguably have absolutely no idea what
> our bodies really crave and that our "cravings" are very likely the
> product of the preferences of our peers and the ads on TV? True human
> "common sense" probably died out when we started making changes to
> ourselves and the planet faster than evolution can take effect.


It is common sense that my body craves carbs. I know I want them,
and when I have them the craving subsides. I know they are not good
for me in excess, but that doesn't stop the craving.


> For a year (shortly after I dropped most of my cash on a downpayment),
> I was having Burger King on a daily basis. It was all about the price
> -- it was really, really cheap. I think people initially eat fast food
> mostly because it's cheap, and then (like Mac & Cheese) start to develop
> a taste for it. I'd argue that people who _really_ like meat tend to
> go for steak and ribs once they can afford it. (Mmm...)

How can it be cheaper to eat at Burger King than go and buy a package of
hamburger, bums, and a bag of potatoes? You can make several meals doing
it yourself at the same price. I think people eat fast food because they
want it now and don't want to do it themselves.

--
Dan

Dan Logcher > wrote:
+ Betty Lee wrote:
+ > For a year (shortly after I dropped most of my cash on a downpayment),
+ > I was having Burger King on a daily basis. It was all about the price
+ > -- it was really, really cheap. I think people initially eat fast food
+ > mostly because it's cheap, and then (like Mac & Cheese) start to develop
+ > a taste for it. I'd argue that people who _really_ like meat tend to
+ > go for steak and ribs once they can afford it. (Mmm...)
+
+ How can it be cheaper to eat at Burger King than go and buy a package of
+ hamburger, bums, and a bag of potatoes? You can make several meals doing
+ it yourself at the same price. I think people eat fast food because they
+ want it now and don't want to do it themselves.

The point is that people who _really_ like meat would go for steak and
ribs anyways...

But if you want to change the subject, of _course_ we want it now and we
don't want to do it ourselves. Getting things now using other peoples'
effort for cheap saves money too. Is it fair to say it takes about 8
minutes to cook a burger and clean up later? If someone were worth only
$15/hr, then that in and of itself would make the $2 burger cheaper than
making one themselves, even if the ingredients, the gas it took to cook
the burger, and the water and soap to wash up afterwards were all free.
Added to that, having the workmates pick them up a burger on their
way back from lunch means they didn't need to punch out for an hour
to get hot food -- if they made it themselves, they'd have to wake up
earlier to make themselves the food and take it with them, and they would
still end up with a cold burger for lunch anyways after all that effort.
Since you can easily get a burger for $2 (or even $0.99 plus tax for
some of them), it's just not worth the aggravation.

"Tea" > wrote in message
...


> > > But Tibet actually proves what I'm saying!
> > > Starches and lots of meat will make people fat.
> >
> >
> > But that's what most Tibetans eat! Butter-rich tsampa and yak meat.
Even
> > the Dalai Lama.
>
> Neither of which are processed with sugar and starch. I suspect from
having
> read people's past posts and email addresses that most of us on this list
> live in the US, Canada, or Britain- countries that are known for processed
> foods. While everyone in those countries doesn't eat processed foods,
most
> of us have at some point.


Ok, hold on a sec! I didn't know the topic was: Why are Americans getting
so fat these last couple of decades? I thought the question was: If a human
being doesn't eat veggies, he/she will get fat. I do think America's
obesity problem to be very interesting, and I agree with most all of what
you wrote below (which I've clipped for aesthetic reasons).

Peter

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:15:00 -0400, Demoness Abigor
> wrote:

>Just looking for a little feedback on this. My husband does not like
>vegetables and I would love to make a dish for him. Any suggestions or
>feedback on how to 'hide them' per se?

"Does not like vegetables" is a pretty sweeping statement. I would
(probably) eat a boot if it were battered and deep-fried, although
that isn't the healthiest presentation for veg. Many/most root veg can
be cooked, mashed, enriched with butter, cream or milk, and seasoned a
la potatoes. Many who don't like cooked veg will happily eat a salad
which can include a multitude of leaves and sliced/cubed/shredded raw
veg. Soups are vehicles of many veg ingredients. Almost any veg can be
cooked in chicken broth, partially or completely pureed, and returned
to the pot with or without a heavy cream addition. Veg can be simply
cooked and made very pretty -- lined up briefly steamed green beans
with garnish of grated lemon peel and/or butter and/or toasted nuts.
Veg (squash, tomatoes, onions, corn, asparagus, eggplant...) can be
grilled and basted with a flavorful sauce. Pumpkin or sweet potato pie
can be made with many types of squash. Muffins, souffles, casseroles,
omelets, soups, salads...

Betty Lee > wrote:

> Peter Dy > wrote:
> + Anyway, I don't think it is true that not eating vegetables
> makes one fat.
>
> There's been long debates about this. Half the debate claims
> that not eating vegetables will make one unhealthy, no matter if
> one is fat or not.

It should be obviously clear by now that a diet consisting of lots
of fruits and vegetables makes for a much healthier diet.

> I generally consider myself to hate vegetables.

I don't understand people who can say that they dislike
vegetables.


> I agree with the other poster -- if someone is steadfastly
> refusing to give any sort of veggies a chance just because
> they're veggies, they need to progress beyond the mental age of
> 5. Beyond that, there's very likely some form of veggie or
> another that can be prepared in a way that is palatable to any
> taste.

Anyone who refuses to eat vegetables is practicing a form of
dietary perversion.

Any parent who fails to feed their children plenty of vegetables
is committing dietary abuse.

NewsM wrote:

>

> Anyone who refuses to eat vegetables is practicing a form of
> dietary perversion.


Those sick people should be locked up for not liking vegetables.


> Any parent who fails to feed their children plenty of vegetables
> is committing dietary abuse.

Those sick parents should have their children taken away from them,
and then locked up and forced to eat only vegetables.

SICKOS!!! All of them!!!

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> NewsM wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Anyone who refuses to eat vegetables is practicing a form of
> > dietary perversion.
>
>
> Those sick people should be locked up for not liking vegetables.
>
>
> > Any parent who fails to feed their children plenty of vegetables
> > is committing dietary abuse.
>
> Those sick parents should have their children taken away from them,
> and then locked up and forced to eat only vegetables.
>
> SICKOS!!! All of them!!!
>
> --
> Dan
>

And fruit, Dan. Don't forget the fruit.

Michele (confirmed meat eater who also loves her veggies)

Tea wrote:

> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>NewsM wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anyone who refuses to eat vegetables is practicing a form of
>>>dietary perversion.
>>>
>>
>>Those sick people should be locked up for not liking vegetables.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Any parent who fails to feed their children plenty of vegetables
>>>is committing dietary abuse.
>>>
>>Those sick parents should have their children taken away from them,
>>and then locked up and forced to eat only vegetables.
>>
>>SICKOS!!! All of them!!!
>
> And fruit, Dan. Don't forget the fruit.

FRUIT!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

Parents that don't give their children fruit should be executed,
and then their bodies pelted with fruit.

Man, I'm glad my son will eat anything. I hope this trend continues.

--
Dan