Hello,

I have two questions regarding Thai curry pastes, the first of which
is about the texture of the paste itself. I pound them using a large
stone mortar and pestle (the kind for sale on thaigrocer.com). I am
never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be. It is clearly one
entity, but it is textured; it would never be mistaken for, say, a
green smooth Jiffy peanutbutter. How smooth should the paste be? Is
it alright for there to be some identifiable pieces of inividual
ingredients, or is that an indication that I need to pound more before
incorporating the next item?

The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique. In Su-Mei
Yu's book, Cracking the Coconut, she writes, "finally the familiar
rhythmic song of an even pounding sang out from the mortar" (page 203
for you following along in the hardcover copy). Never having worked
with a Thai chef, I am uncertain as to what this rhythmic song really
is. I find that by pounding straight down into the mortar, the paste
slides up the sides in about two or three hits, thus making it
necessary to scrape more paste down into the center to continue. The
only other option would be to pound against the sides, something which
Su-Mei Yu warns against doing. With this constant introsion into the
actual pounding, it is difficult to have any regular rhythm. Am I
doing something wrong, or do I just have a faulty conception of a
pounding rhythm?

Thanks,
Brett

Brett Maguire wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have two questions regarding Thai curry pastes, the first of which
> is about the texture of the paste itself. I pound them using a large
> stone mortar and pestle (the kind for sale on thaigrocer.com). I am
> never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be. It is clearly one
> entity, but it is textured; it would never be mistaken for, say, a
> green smooth Jiffy peanutbutter. How smooth should the paste be? Is
> it alright for there to be some identifiable pieces of inividual
> ingredients, or is that an indication that I need to pound more before
> incorporating the next item?
>
> The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique. In Su-Mei
> Yu's book, Cracking the Coconut, she writes, "finally the familiar
> rhythmic song of an even pounding sang out from the mortar" (page 203
> for you following along in the hardcover copy). Never having worked
> with a Thai chef, I am uncertain as to what this rhythmic song really
> is. I find that by pounding straight down into the mortar, the paste
> slides up the sides in about two or three hits, thus making it
> necessary to scrape more paste down into the center to continue. The
> only other option would be to pound against the sides, something which
> Su-Mei Yu warns against doing. With this constant introsion into the
> actual pounding, it is difficult to have any regular rhythm. Am I
> doing something wrong, or do I just have a faulty conception of a
> pounding rhythm?
>
> Thanks,
> Brett

Hi Brett,

This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
Whither authenticity, eh?

krnntp

KWR wrote:

> Brett Maguire wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have two questions regarding Thai curry pastes, the first of which
>> is about the texture of the paste itself. I pound them using a large
>> stone mortar and pestle (the kind for sale on thaigrocer.com). I am
>> never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be. It is clearly one
>> entity, but it is textured; it would never be mistaken for, say, a
>> green smooth Jiffy peanutbutter. How smooth should the paste be? Is
>> it alright for there to be some identifiable pieces of inividual
>> ingredients, or is that an indication that I need to pound more before
>> incorporating the next item?
>>
>> The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique. In Su-Mei
>> Yu's book, Cracking the Coconut, she writes, "finally the familiar
>> rhythmic song of an even pounding sang out from the mortar" (page 203
>> for you following along in the hardcover copy). Never having worked
>> with a Thai chef, I am uncertain as to what this rhythmic song really
>> is. I find that by pounding straight down into the mortar, the paste
>> slides up the sides in about two or three hits, thus making it
>> necessary to scrape more paste down into the center to continue. The
>> only other option would be to pound against the sides, something which
>> Su-Mei Yu warns against doing. With this constant introsion into the
>> actual pounding, it is difficult to have any regular rhythm. Am I
>> doing something wrong, or do I just have a faulty conception of a
>> pounding rhythm?
>> Thanks,
>> Brett
>
>
> Hi Brett,
>
> This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
> observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
> grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
> pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
> grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
> down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
> unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
> finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
> Whither authenticity, eh?
>
> krnntp

By the way, my grinding technique is a clockwise or counterclockwise
rubbing / crushing / rolling motion. Depending on how much the mixture
is riding up the sides of the mortar, I will either widen the diameter
of my path, or try smooshing it downward using vertical wiping strokes.
Sometimes I've resorted to stopping periodically to wipe the admixture
back into place with a hand or utensil.

Like Brett, I'd be interested to hear anyone's comments on how it is
actually *supposed* to be done.

I'm a bit skeptical of the "bop - bop - bop" vertical hammer approach
which seems to be one philosophical way of approaching a mortar and
pestle. A limited amount of striking seems to be useful to fragment and
destroy large ingredients, but when it comes to the fine processing of a
paste, I feel like I get a lot more return on work when the pestle
rarely leaves the grinding surface.

Best - krnntp

"KWR" > wrote in message
s.com...
[...]
> This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
> observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
> grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
> pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
> grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
> down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
> unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
> finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
> Whither authenticity, eh?


Hmm. For me, garlic and shallots are the easy part. I just do vertical
pounding, with an occassional grind, until they are mush--no unpulverized
pieces left. It just takes time.

Peter

"KWR" > wrote in message
s.com...
> KWR wrote:
>
> > Brett Maguire wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I have two questions regarding Thai curry pastes, the first of which
> >> is about the texture of the paste itself. I pound them using a large
> >> stone mortar and pestle (the kind for sale on thaigrocer.com). I am
> >> never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be. It is clearly one
> >> entity, but it is textured; it would never be mistaken for, say, a
> >> green smooth Jiffy peanutbutter. How smooth should the paste be? Is
> >> it alright for there to be some identifiable pieces of inividual
> >> ingredients, or is that an indication that I need to pound more before
> >> incorporating the next item?
> >>
> >> The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique. In Su-Mei
> >> Yu's book, Cracking the Coconut, she writes, "finally the familiar
> >> rhythmic song of an even pounding sang out from the mortar" (page 203
> >> for you following along in the hardcover copy). Never having worked
> >> with a Thai chef, I am uncertain as to what this rhythmic song really
> >> is. I find that by pounding straight down into the mortar, the paste
> >> slides up the sides in about two or three hits, thus making it
> >> necessary to scrape more paste down into the center to continue. The
> >> only other option would be to pound against the sides, something which
> >> Su-Mei Yu warns against doing. With this constant introsion into the
> >> actual pounding, it is difficult to have any regular rhythm. Am I
> >> doing something wrong, or do I just have a faulty conception of a
> >> pounding rhythm?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Brett
> >
> >
> > Hi Brett,
> >
> > This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
> > observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
> > grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
> > pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
> > grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
> > down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
> > unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
> > finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
> > Whither authenticity, eh?
> >
> > krnntp
>
> By the way, my grinding technique is a clockwise or counterclockwise
> rubbing / crushing / rolling motion. Depending on how much the mixture
> is riding up the sides of the mortar, I will either widen the diameter
> of my path, or try smooshing it downward using vertical wiping strokes.
> Sometimes I've resorted to stopping periodically to wipe the admixture
> back into place with a hand or utensil.
>
> Like Brett, I'd be interested to hear anyone's comments on how it is
> actually *supposed* to be done.
>
> I'm a bit skeptical of the "bop - bop - bop" vertical hammer approach
> which seems to be one philosophical way of approaching a mortar and
> pestle. A limited amount of striking seems to be useful to fragment and
> destroy large ingredients, but when it comes to the fine processing of a
> paste, I feel like I get a lot more return on work when the pestle
> rarely leaves the grinding surface.


The best description I've seen is Kasma's--such details are what make her
book so good. For beginner's, she suggests you do the various ingredients
separately. She gives suggestions for how to best deal with each type of
ingredient.

Here's an excerpt, but the whole article has other good info:

"In Thailand, ingredients that go into a curry paste are pounded together
all at once in the mortar. Often, the softer and wetter ingredients like
garlic and shallots are placed in whole as they mash up relatively easily.
Coarse salt crystals provide some abrasion to reduce the harder and more
fibrous herbs and spices as well as pull their flavors together. The
pounding goes on until everything in the mortar is mashed into a paste and
is no longer distinguishable. This can take a long time for someone
inexperienced in mortar and pestle techniques.

If you are a beginner with mortar and pestle, work on one ingredient at a
time, starting with the dry spices. They are easily pulverized with a
rolling motion of the pestle around the bottom and sides of the mortar while
its surface is still dry. Remove them from the mortar before proceeding with
the most fibrous of the herbs. Pound one ingredient at a time, a small
amount at a time, moving from the hardiest to the softest and wettest. Herbs
reduce more quickly when pounded with a sturdy up and down motion; only
after their fibers have been adequately crushed does a rolling wrist motion
contribute to their reduction. When all the ingredients have been reduced to
powder or paste, combine them and pound together until they are well blended
and no longer distinguishable. This process takes less time overall and, for
the less experienced, produces a paste that is more uniform."

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/features/cpaste.html



Peter

Peter Dy wrote:

> "KWR" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> [...]
>
>>This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
>>observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
>>grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
>>pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
>>grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
>>down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
>>unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
>>finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
>>Whither authenticity, eh?
>
>
>
> Hmm. For me, garlic and shallots are the easy part. I just do vertical
> pounding, with an occassional grind, until they are mush--no unpulverized
> pieces left. It just takes time.
>
> Peter
>
>

I confess that it's a speed thing - it just agrees with me better to get
more or less instantaneous shallot paste using a microplane grater or
ginger grater, versus the same result after a considerable period of
aiming, bumping and splatting. You could argue that I might as well go
adrift completely and use a blender, except that doesn't take into
account my passionate hatred for all blenders.

I feel that the granite mortar and pestle does a fantastic job on
everything else, from lemongrass through ginger through fenugreek
through tomatoes through leafy herbs... it's just the alliums which are
my nemesis. I've even used it to wet grind dal, a thankless task if ever
there was one. I wonder, though, to what extent the shape of the
individual pestle influences technique. In particular, for
bang-and-smash, I suspect it would be better to have a slightly wider
and more gently curved sriking end.

Best - krnntp

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:59:51 GMT, "Peter Dy" >
wrote:

>
>"KWR" > wrote in message
ws.com...
>[...]
>> This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
>> observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
>> grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
>> pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
>> grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
>> down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
>> unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
>> finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
>> Whither authenticity, eh?
>
>
>Hmm. For me, garlic and shallots are the easy part. I just do vertical
>pounding, with an occassional grind, until they are mush--no unpulverized
>pieces left. It just takes time.
>
>Peter
>

Again following the instructions in Cracking the Coconut, I have
always started my pastes with garlic and added shallots at the very
end. (The latter, incidentally, is what causes my paste to decorate
the walls and my clothing.) When you say that the garlic and shallots
are the easy part, Peter, do you mean that you mash both of them
together, and if so, at the beginning or the end?

I'm enjoying all of your comments - thanks.

Brett

"Brett Maguire" <brettwmaguire at yahoo dot com> wrote in message
...
[...]
> Again following the instructions in Cracking the Coconut,


Brett, did you read the link I gave to Kasma's article? At the time her
book, "It Rains Fishes," came out, that was the most detailed description
out there. Cracking the Coconut is newer, and I haven't read it, so I don't
know the level of detail. Also, it seems her method sounds a little
different from Kasma's.


I have
> always started my pastes with garlic and added shallots at the very
> end.


Kasma suggests that a beginner start with dry spices, then go from toughest
(like lemon grass) to softer and wetter things. In between each, she
suggests you remove them from the mortar, and only at the end should put
them all back together and pound to a smooth paste.


(The latter, incidentally, is what causes my paste to decorate
> the walls and my clothing.)


How big is your mortar? That might influence things. My new one is 4
inches deep, 6 1/2 inches across the inner bowl. (My old one was much
smaller, but I still didn't get much splashing.)


When you say that the garlic and shallots
> are the easy part, Peter, do you mean that you mash both of them
> together, and if so, at the beginning or the end?


I've never pounded them for a Thai curry paste; I've pounded them for other
Thai dishes and for Indonesian pastes. I do garlic and shallots together.
I start pounding softly, straight up and down. After they break down a bit,
then I pound harder. It doesn't splash much for me when I do it like that.

If I were you, I'd try Kasma's way of one ingredient at a time. When you
get the hang of it, you could move on to more ingredients at once. I also
wouldn't worry about the rhythmic sounds until you get the hang of it. And
btw, she suggests that it takes about half an hour, so maybe you are going
to fast?

I'm sure other's have better info than I.

Peter

> I am never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be.

The pastier, the better. While it's difficult to achieve the texture of
a commercial curry paste, that's what you should strive for. You should
avoid identifiable pieces.

> The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique.

One thing that helps is to pound the harder, tougher ingredients first.
If you add them all at the same time, the softer ingredients like
shallots will act as a lubricant and cushion, and will keep the tougher
ingredients like kaffir lime peel, lemon grass and spices from breaking
up. If you start with the hard ingredients first, they will pulverize
nicely. Then when you add the softer ingredients the hard stuff will
help the soft stuff disintegrate by acting as an abrasive.

--
- Jeff Lichtman
Author, Baseball for Rookies
http://baseball-for-rookies.com/

KWR wrote:

> KWR wrote:
>
> > Brett Maguire wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I have two questions regarding Thai curry pastes, the first of which
> >> is about the texture of the paste itself. I pound them using a large
> >> stone mortar and pestle (the kind for sale on thaigrocer.com). I am
> >> never sure just how "pastey" the paste should be. It is clearly one
> >> entity, but it is textured; it would never be mistaken for, say, a
> >> green smooth Jiffy peanutbutter. How smooth should the paste be? Is
> >> it alright for there to be some identifiable pieces of inividual
> >> ingredients, or is that an indication that I need to pound more before
> >> incorporating the next item?
> >>
> >> The next question is one about mortar and pestle technique. In Su-Mei
> >> Yu's book, Cracking the Coconut, she writes, "finally the familiar
> >> rhythmic song of an even pounding sang out from the mortar" (page 203
> >> for you following along in the hardcover copy). Never having worked
> >> with a Thai chef, I am uncertain as to what this rhythmic song really
> >> is. I find that by pounding straight down into the mortar, the paste
> >> slides up the sides in about two or three hits, thus making it
> >> necessary to scrape more paste down into the center to continue. The
> >> only other option would be to pound against the sides, something which
> >> Su-Mei Yu warns against doing. With this constant introsion into the
> >> actual pounding, it is difficult to have any regular rhythm. Am I
> >> doing something wrong, or do I just have a faulty conception of a
> >> pounding rhythm?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Brett
> >
> >
> > Hi Brett,
> >
> > This isn't a helpful answer to your question, I'm afraid, but an
> > observation of my own: that the shallots-and-garlic phase of the
> > grinding process can be really tricky and frustrating. I have taken to
> > pre-grating these ingredients using a sharp fine grater, then adding and
> > grinding the grated mush into the curry paste as a final step. It cuts
> > down on the dual problems of flying shallot bits and half-smashed but
> > unpulverized flat pieces of garlic / shallot. I used to just slice them
> > finely before adding, but feel that this way works better.
> > Whither authenticity, eh?
> >
> > krnntp
>
> By the way, my grinding technique is a clockwise or counterclockwise
> rubbing / crushing / rolling motion. Depending on how much the mixture
> is riding up the sides of the mortar, I will either widen the diameter
> of my path, or try smooshing it downward using vertical wiping strokes.
> Sometimes I've resorted to stopping periodically to wipe the admixture
> back into place with a hand or utensil.
>
> Like Brett, I'd be interested to hear anyone's comments on how it is
> actually *supposed* to be done.
>
> I'm a bit skeptical of the "bop - bop - bop" vertical hammer approach
> which seems to be one philosophical way of approaching a mortar and
> pestle. A limited amount of striking seems to be useful to fragment and
> destroy large ingredients, but when it comes to the fine processing of a
> paste, I feel like I get a lot more return on work when the pestle
> rarely leaves the grinding surface.
>
> Best - krnntp

As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement, alternating...The
stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting (grinding)
motion...

The Bop bop bop is used in making something like som tam, where it's more of a
'softening-up' kind of purpose. Stuff like garlic, is tossed in as a whole
clove, bopped a bit, then, sometimes, twisted, to really pulp it out. Thais
seem to prefer the chunky garlic, rather than a garlic paste, though.

Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with just
enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...

Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?

Lawrence
Chiang Mai

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
> curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement,
alternating...The
> stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting
(grinding)
> motion...


Lawrence, is that with a granite mortar and pestle? I've tried that with,
say, garlic, and the sides are too smooth for it to work. Hmmm...


[...]
> Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with
just
> enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...
>
> Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?


As Rona says, "Where's the pics?!"

Peter

Peter Dy wrote:

> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
> [...]
> > As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
> > curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement,
> alternating...The
> > stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting
> (grinding)
> > motion...
>
> Lawrence, is that with a granite mortar and pestle? I've tried that with,
> say, garlic, and the sides are too smooth for it to work. Hmmm...
>
> [...]
> > Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with
> just
> > enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...
> >
> > Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?
>
> As Rona says, "Where's the pics?!"
>
> Peter

Peter, my housekeeper loves the red clay mortars (with stone and wooden
pestles)...She says the stone ones are too 'High So' (High Society) Personally,
I love the stone ones for making Peanut Butter....A small jar of Skippy is about
$8US here....

Now, if I could only figure out the recipe for Flint's (Oakland, Ca.) BBQ
sauce.....

You can get to miss some of the weirdest things from 'home' sometimes...A while
ago, it was Butterfingers. I don't know why...I think the last one I had was
about 30 years ago...

Speaking of food cravings, it reminds me of an American Monk I met in Thailand
some years ago. He had joined the ThammaYut sect, which the King also belonged
to, and it's quite a bit stricter than the Theravada sect, the largest Buddhist
sect in Thailand. He's been in Thailand almost 40 years, but he was telling me
that when he was living in an Issan wat, he often prayed for a pizza and chilled
green salad while was doing his morning rounds collecting food...

;-)

Lawrence

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Peter Dy wrote:
>
> > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > [...]
> > > As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a
red
> > > curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement,
> > alternating...The
> > > stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting
> > (grinding)
> > > motion...
> >
> > Lawrence, is that with a granite mortar and pestle? I've tried that
with,
> > say, garlic, and the sides are too smooth for it to work. Hmmm...
> >
> > [...]
> > > Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with
> > just
> > > enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...
> > >
> > > Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?
> >
> > As Rona says, "Where's the pics?!"
> >
> > Peter
>
> Peter, my housekeeper loves the red clay mortars (with stone and wooden
> pestles)...


Ah, ok. Yeah, the motions used for clay ones are different than those used
for the granite ones. And those used for Indonesian-style mortars and
pestles differ yet again. Never seen the latter in the States though.


> You can get to miss some of the weirdest things from 'home' sometimes...A
while
> ago, it was Butterfingers. I don't know why...I think the last one I had
was
> about 30 years ago...


Hehe. I can see that, though those Chinese, pounded peanut candies are very
similar, just without the chocolate. I missed Doritos.


> Speaking of food cravings, it reminds me of an American Monk I met in
Thailand
> some years ago. He had joined the ThammaYut sect, which the King also
belonged
> to, and it's quite a bit stricter than the Theravada sect, the largest
Buddhist
> sect in Thailand. He's been in Thailand almost 40 years, but he was
telling me
> that when he was living in an Issan wat, he often prayed for a pizza and
chilled
> green salad while was doing his morning rounds collecting food...


There's an good movie about 2 Germans attending a monestary in Japan, called
Enlightenment Guaranteed. Pretty funny. No food cravings though.

I think you meant that ThammaYut is smaller than the largest sect,
MahaNikai. Both are Theravada.

Peter

Peter Dy wrote:

> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Peter Dy wrote:
> >
> > > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > [...]
> > > > As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a
> red
> > > > curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement,
> > > alternating...The
> > > > stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting
> > > (grinding)
> > > > motion...
> > >
> > > Lawrence, is that with a granite mortar and pestle? I've tried that
> with,
> > > say, garlic, and the sides are too smooth for it to work. Hmmm...
> > >
> > > [...]
> > > > Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with
> > > just
> > > > enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...
> > > >
> > > > Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?
> > >
> > > As Rona says, "Where's the pics?!"
> > >
> > > Peter
> >
> > Peter, my housekeeper loves the red clay mortars (with stone and wooden
> > pestles)...
>
> Ah, ok. Yeah, the motions used for clay ones are different than those used
> for the granite ones. And those used for Indonesian-style mortars and
> pestles differ yet again. Never seen the latter in the States though.
>
> > You can get to miss some of the weirdest things from 'home' sometimes...A
> while
> > ago, it was Butterfingers. I don't know why...I think the last one I had
> was
> > about 30 years ago...
>
> Hehe. I can see that, though those Chinese, pounded peanut candies are very
> similar, just without the chocolate. I missed Doritos.
>
> > Speaking of food cravings, it reminds me of an American Monk I met in
> Thailand
> > some years ago. He had joined the ThammaYut sect, which the King also
> belonged
> > to, and it's quite a bit stricter than the Theravada sect, the largest
> Buddhist
> > sect in Thailand. He's been in Thailand almost 40 years, but he was
> telling me
> > that when he was living in an Issan wat, he often prayed for a pizza and
> chilled
> > green salad while was doing his morning rounds collecting food...
>
> There's an good movie about 2 Germans attending a monestary in Japan, called
> Enlightenment Guaranteed. Pretty funny. No food cravings though.
>
> I think you meant that ThammaYut is smaller than the largest sect,
> MahaNikai. Both are Theravada.

Yes, you're right...A bit of late night brainfreeze on my part

>
>
> Peter

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:02:50 +0700, Lawrence >
wrote:


>
>As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
>curry paste....The motion is a twisting/stirring movement, alternating...The
>stirring is mostly to clean the sides and position for the twisting (grinding)
>motion...
>
>The Bop bop bop is used in making something like som tam, where it's more of a
>'softening-up' kind of purpose. Stuff like garlic, is tossed in as a whole
>clove, bopped a bit, then, sometimes, twisted, to really pulp it out. Thais
>seem to prefer the chunky garlic, rather than a garlic paste, though.
>
>Oh, and the paste is fairly dry....a bit like play dough, or sand with just
>enough moisture to mold, but no liquids oozing...
>
>Like this........ (showing it to my com)...See?
Sounds more like chilli paste to me


SIAOGU

The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
. com...
>

>
>
> As Rona says, "Where's the pics?!"
>
> Peter
>
>

:-p. And just for that, I'm going to show you *my* pictures!

From what I'm reading, some people seem to think the paste should be wet,
but it is rather dry as Lawrence says.
http://community.webshots.com/album/118433722Qtxepj has a picture of the
paste, as well as the final dish, I made last year while taking a cooking
course in Thailand. The recipes used were quite Westernized, I thought, but
everyone else seemed to like them.

I used to have all the food pictures up on picturetrail.com, but my trial
membership expired so they disappeared into cyberspace. One day, I'll put
the rest up on webshots (but there were a lot of them!).

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

Peter Dy wrote:

> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> (snip)
>>
>>Peter, my housekeeper loves the red clay mortars (with stone and wooden
>>pestles)...
>
>
> Ah, ok. Yeah, the motions used for clay ones are different than those used
> for the granite ones. And those used for Indonesian-style mortars and
> pestles differ yet again. Never seen the latter in the States though.
>
>

I've seen them for sale on a couple of yahoo websites - websites which
look eerily similar to one another, actually -

http://www.indomerchant.com/stonecobek.html
http://www.asianmerchant.com/stonecobek.html

....in LA and NY respectively.

"KWR" > wrote in message
s.com...
> Peter Dy wrote:
>
> > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> (snip)
> >>
> >>Peter, my housekeeper loves the red clay mortars (with stone and wooden
> >>pestles)...
> >
> >
> > Ah, ok. Yeah, the motions used for clay ones are different than those
used
> > for the granite ones. And those used for Indonesian-style mortars and
> > pestles differ yet again. Never seen the latter in the States though.
> >
> >
>
> I've seen them for sale on a couple of yahoo websites - websites which
> look eerily similar to one another, actually -
>
> http://www.indomerchant.com/stonecobek.html
> http://www.asianmerchant.com/stonecobek.html


Neat, thanks! The pestle looks interesting--unlike the other Indonesian
ones I've seen. I thought they had a sharp curve in them? Or maybe you
just can't tell from the photo.

Has anyone here ever used one? I'm interested in getting one. My little
sister [I think I've since shaken John Ashcroft off my tail for my secret
stash of Sichuan peppercorns, such that I can admit to having a sis again.]
collects egg cups, sorta. I told her: "I think I want to collect mortar
and pestles." I was sorta joking, but I do like the things, and I've
already got several lying around my flat, so why not?

Peter

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:02:50 +0700, Lawrence >
wrote:

>As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
>curry paste....

I think housewives prefer to be called "Domestic Engineers"

;-)

-sw

Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:02:50 +0700, Lawrence >
> wrote:
>
> >As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a red
> >curry paste....
>
> I think housewives prefer to be called "Domestic Engineers"
>
> ;-)
>
> -sw

Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would run for
the hills at the suggestion...

;-)

wrote:

> Steve Wertz > wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:02:50 +0700, Lawrence >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >As I write this, I'm watching, and listening too my housekeeper make a
> > >red curry paste....
> >
> > I think housewives prefer to be called "Domestic Engineers"
> >
> IMSMC Lawrence is in Thailand, and probably really has a housekeeper.
> Lawrence did you get my letter? email me.

The 'stuff' is on the way, in a plain wrapper...


Cheers

>
>
> --
> Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley
> "Giving violent criminals a government guarantee that their intended
> victims are defenseless is bad public policy."
> - John Ross, "Unintended Consequences"

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would run
for
> the hills at the suggestion...
>
> ;-)
>

OT: Speaking of second wives....minor wives, as they are often referred to
in Thailand...

One of my father's friends married an American woman but took a minor wife
after they moved back to Thailand. (Keep in mind, this was in the mid-late
1960s.) The minor wife opened a department store and the American wife
worked alongside her in the store. They were good friends, apparently. My
mother found it very hard to understand how an American woman could accept
something like that, and even be friends with the minor wife. Were it my
mother, she would have pulled out the minor wife's hair, shoved her out the
door, then cut of my dad's...you know...

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Lucky you!
>
> ;-)
>
>

Naw... I was created less than a year after they returned to Thailand and we
left about six months after I was born. There wasn't quite enough time for
my dad to get a minor wife so his goods were safe! :-)

rona
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
...
> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> >
> > Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would
run
> for
> > the hills at the suggestion...
> >
> > ;-)
> >
>
> OT: Speaking of second wives....minor wives, as they are often referred
to
> in Thailand...
>
> One of my father's friends married an American woman but took a minor wife
> after they moved back to Thailand. (Keep in mind, this was in the
mid-late
> 1960s.) The minor wife opened a department store and the American wife
> worked alongside her in the store. They were good friends, apparently.


Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....

My grandpa had minor wives. I thought my ex-Taiwanese GF might be receptive
to the idea, but she threatened me much as your mother would have...

Peter

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
>
> Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....

I've been told that it's still being practised there, so you still have a
chance! Heck, if the King can do it, why not you!

>
> My grandpa had minor wives. I thought my ex-Taiwanese GF might be
receptive
> to the idea, but she threatened me much as your mother would have...
>
> Peter
>
>

I hate to tell you, Peter, but I think that might be why she's your *ex*
girlfriend :-).

I do know a couple that used to partner swap. That was before they got
married, though. AFAIK, they stopped after that. (They were caucasian.)

rona
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:

> "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> >
> >
> > Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....
>
> I've been told that it's still being practised there, so you still have a
> chance! Heck, if the King can do it, why not you!

Rona, a recent report says 75% of Thai men are unfaithful to their wives...
I sense that is a conservative number. I've been here almost 20 years, and
every Thai man I've ever become aquatinted with has been unfaithful, and
quite open about it, in most cases...

But, in the last few years, we're seeing more and more 'cutting off and
feeding to pigs' stories.

Watch yourself, Peter




;-)

> > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would
> run
> > for
> > > the hills at the suggestion...


"The bonds of marriage are so heavy, it takes two to carry them.
Sometimes three."
If anyone remember the origin of this (one of my favourite) sayings, I'd
love to have it.
blacksalt

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:35:28 +0700, Lawrence >
wrote:


wrote:

>> IMSMC Lawrence is in Thailand, and probably really has a housekeeper.
>> Lawrence did you get my letter? email me.
>
>The 'stuff' is on the way, in a plain wrapper...

I thought you gave up the thai-stick, Nick?

-sw

Peter Dy wrote:
>
> "Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would
> run
> > for
> > > the hills at the suggestion...
> > >
> > > ;-)
> > >
> >
> > OT: Speaking of second wives....minor wives, as they are often referred
> to
> > in Thailand...
> >
> > One of my father's friends married an American woman but took a minor wife
> > after they moved back to Thailand. (Keep in mind, this was in the
> mid-late
> > 1960s.) The minor wife opened a department store and the American wife
> > worked alongside her in the store. They were good friends, apparently.
>
> Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....
>
> My grandpa had minor wives. I thought my ex-Taiwanese GF might be receptive
> to the idea, but she threatened me much as your mother would have...

Mondern-day Asain women are so.......modern

--

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

"Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

George "The AWOL President" Bush: http://awol.gq.nu/4dawol.htm

WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html

http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

Lawrence wrote:
>
> Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:
>
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....
> >
> > I've been told that it's still being practised there, so you still have a
> > chance! Heck, if the King can do it, why not you!
>
> Rona, a recent report says 75% of Thai men are unfaithful to their wives...

In a Muslim country.

Mulsim religion condones the taking of up to four wives.

Whats the problem?

Trying to fit the square American peg into the round Foreign hole?

That's what is wrong with the Colonialistic attitude.


--

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

"Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

George "The AWOL President" Bush: http://awol.gq.nu/4dawol.htm

WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html

http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

slim wrote:

> Lawrence wrote:
> >
> > Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:
> >
> > > "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gosh, I'm gonna move to Thailand too now....
> > >
> > > I've been told that it's still being practised there, so you still have a
> > > chance! Heck, if the King can do it, why not you!
> >
> > Rona, a recent report says 75% of Thai men are unfaithful to their wives...
>
> In a Muslim country.
>
> Mulsim religion condones the taking of up to four wives.
>
> Whats the problem?

The problem is, the first wife must agree. No agreement, no extra wives.

I also lived in Indonesia for a year, and single locals seem to be exploiting a
loophole in the Koran that somehow allows for 'temporary marriage' between
consenting adults...Though the marriage is likely to last for only an hour or
so...

"slim" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> In a Muslim country.
>

You need to do some research. Only 4% of Thais are Muslim. The people of
Southern Thailand are predominantly Muslim, but the rest of Thailand (as
well as the monarchy) is Buddhist.

> Mulsim religion condones the taking of up to four wives.
>

Only with the first wife's permission and if the man can afford it.

> Whats the problem?
>

Nothing if you're Muslim (although, in fact, many Muslims I have met do
*not* condone the taking of more than one wife, either). But as I wrote
above, the majority of Thais are not. Buddhism *does not* condone adultery,
btw. What's your problem? You have chimed in with inaccurate and
irrelevant information. You clearly know nothing about Thailand or
Buddhism.

> Trying to fit the square American peg into the round Foreign hole?
>

"American" has nothing to do with it, except for that in the anecdote I
related, the first wife of my dad's friend *was* American.

> That's what is wrong with the Colonialistic attitude.
>

Or perhaps that's what's wrong with you--ignorance is a large part of the
"colonialistic [sic] attitude", isn't it? (The word is, btw, colonial")

rona


--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:

> "slim" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > In a Muslim country.
> >
>
> You need to do some research. Only 4% of Thais are Muslim. The people of
> Southern Thailand are predominantly Muslim, but the rest of Thailand (as
> well as the monarchy) is Buddhist.
>
> > Mulsim religion condones the taking of up to four wives.
> >
>
> Only with the first wife's permission and if the man can afford it.

And depending on local law. Not legal in Thailand, but tolerated, it seems.VERY
rare, though. Legal In Malaysia, but not Indonesia, I'm pretty sure. Malaysia
is an Islamic country, but Indonesia isn't- even though they have the largest
muslim population in the world. No Sharia Police in Indonesia, but there is in
Malaysia..Quite serious, too. Don't go preaching the bible to *any* Malaysian
Muslim...Serious jail time, to be sure. And Pizza hut uses chicken on their
'Hawaiian Pizza'

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> om...
[...]
> > My grandpa had minor wives. I thought my ex-Taiwanese GF might be
> receptive
> > to the idea, but she threatened me much as your mother would have...
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
>
> I hate to tell you, Peter, but I think that might be why she's your *ex*
> girlfriend :-).


Damn. Maybe you're right... I'm gonna ask relationship questions here from
now on. What one learns here, one just can't find in books!


> I do know a couple that used to partner swap. That was before they got
> married, though. AFAIK, they stopped after that. (They were caucasian.)


You mean share my wives?! No way!! That's just...wrong!

Peter

Peter Dy wrote:

> "Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> > om...
> [...]
> > > My grandpa had minor wives. I thought my ex-Taiwanese GF might be
> > receptive
> > > to the idea, but she threatened me much as your mother would have...
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I hate to tell you, Peter, but I think that might be why she's your *ex*
> > girlfriend :-).
>
> Damn. Maybe you're right... I'm gonna ask relationship questions here from
> now on. What one learns here, one just can't find in books!
>
> > I do know a couple that used to partner swap. That was before they got
> > married, though. AFAIK, they stopped after that. (They were caucasian.)
>
> You mean share my wives?! No way!! That's just...wrong!
>
> Peter

I felt that way when someone wanted to borrow my prized motorcycle...
It revs to full power on command, even with me on top, and never complains.

My bike, that is.

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I felt that way when someone wanted to borrow my prized motorcycle...
> It revs to full power on command, even with me on top, and never
complains.
>
> My bike, that is.
>
>

Am I the only female on this ng anymore?

To you, Lawrence, on behalf of all females everywhere, I say :-P! :-)

rona
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:
>
> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > I felt that way when someone wanted to borrow my prized motorcycle...
> > It revs to full power on command, even with me on top, and never
> complains.
> >
> > My bike, that is.
> >
> >
>
> Am I the only female on this ng anymore?
>
> To you, Lawrence, on behalf of all females everywhere, I say :-P! :-)
>
Lemme check... Are you going to be posting from Japan?

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > wrote in message ...
> >
> Lemme check... Are you going to be posting from Japan?
>

It's good to see you back here more regularly. I hope you'll be posting
more!

I will be posting from Japan, but possibly less frequently. I'm looking
into getting DSL so I won't have to worry about telephone charges, but I
need a Japanese person with a Japanese computer to help me with the
application. Everything in Japan is always a hassle--except eating, that
is!

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:09:54 -0800, kalanamak >
wrote:

>
>> > "Lawrence" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Though having a second wife sounds nice, I think my housekeeper would
>> run
>> > for
>> > > the hills at the suggestion...
>
>
>"The bonds of marriage are so heavy, it takes two to carry them.
>Sometimes three."
>If anyone remember the origin of this (one of my favourite) sayings, I'd
>love to have it.
>blacksalt

there was an ike and tina turner song, 'you say you're too much man
for one woman/but you're not enough man for two' that somehow comes
to mind. i don't know who wrote it.

your pal,
blake

> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:09:54 -0800, kalanamak >
> wrote:

> >
> >
> >"The bonds of marriage are so heavy, it takes two to carry them.
> >Sometimes three."
> >If anyone remember the origin of this (one of my favourite) sayings, I'd
> >love to have it.
> >blacksalt
>

From http://www.nmt.edu/~shipman/suq/homepage.html

----begin paste----

The bonds of marriage are so heavy that it takes two to carry them,
sometimes three. [Moms Mabley] Or four, or five.... [Della Reese]
``The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson;'' the first quote is
also attributed to Alexandre Dumas on p. 119 of Erica Jong's
``Fear of Flying,'' the word ``marriage'' being replaced by
``wedlock''

----end paste----

Looks like it's Alexandre Dumas.
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***