Hi -

Has anyone got much experience cooking with nahm pla raa - extremely
fermented fish sauce? I bought a bottle for one recipe, which I now
can't find, and I'm wondering how best to use it. From the little I have
gleaned, I need to use it sparingly. Any recipe hints appreciated.

Thanks,

Ian

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:35:00 -0400, Ian wrote:

> Hi -
>
> Has anyone got much experience cooking with nahm pla raa - extremely
> fermented fish sauce?

Define "extremely fermented". I've cooked with all sorts of
fermented fish products. The strongest is mam nem - which is the
whole fish, not just the liquid that comes off the fish to make nam
pla or nuoc mam.

I'd guess this pla ra is the same as the Vietnamese mam nem. Mam
nem is sold as whole fish pieces (cut into 1" squares) or ground
into a pinkish brown pourable paste. I love the stuff and am still
experimenting with the different brands to find the right ratio for
the infamous Vietnamese dipping sauce. It's other main ingredient
is pineapple puree in the dipping sauce of the same name. Many
Vietnamese people will not even eat this sauce. Only people with
sophisticated palates truly appreciate the smell and value of this
sauce.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:35:00 -0400, Ian wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> Has anyone got much experience cooking with nahm pla raa - extremely
>> fermented fish sauce?
>
> Define "extremely fermented". I've cooked with all sorts of
> fermented fish products. The strongest is mam nem - which is the
> whole fish, not just the liquid that comes off the fish to make nam
> pla or nuoc mam.
>
> I'd guess this pla ra is the same as the Vietnamese mam nem. Mam
> nem is sold as whole fish pieces (cut into 1" squares) or ground
> into a pinkish brown pourable paste. I love the stuff and am still
> experimenting with the different brands to find the right ratio for
> the infamous Vietnamese dipping sauce. It's other main ingredient
> is pineapple puree in the dipping sauce of the same name. Many
> Vietnamese people will not even eat this sauce. Only people with
> sophisticated palates truly appreciate the smell and value of this
> sauce.
>
> -sw

Well, I'm hoping to join the sophisticates among us :-).

The Thai Asian Grocery lady in Vienna gave me this bottle when I asked
for Nahm Pla Raa, and she was curious about what I was going to do with
it - its off-beat even for Thai people, apparently.

Anyway, the bottle says, as you guessed, 'Mam Nem'. Ingredients are fish
extract, water, salt. Its made by Foodex in Thailand.

Maybe I should check my Vietnamese cookbooks for ideas.

One of these days I will actually bite the bullet and open it.

Thanks,

Ian

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:08:13 -0400, Ian wrote:

> The Thai Asian Grocery lady in Vienna gave me this bottle when I asked
> for Nahm Pla Raa, and she was curious about what I was going to do with
> it - its off-beat even for Thai people, apparently.

I used to buy the whole fish mam nem from the bulk section of a
Vietnamese grocer in San Jose. The stuff looks like mud with blue
streaks in it (from the skin that hasn't quite decomposed like the
rest of the fish)

One day I took it to the counter and a couple of ladies behind me
started talking to the cashier in Vietnmamese and laughing, looking
at me and pointing at my purchase.

I had no idea what they were saying, but I could guess. I opened up
the plastic container and took a good long whiff for them, then
dipped my finger in it and licked it off. Then I rubbed my belly
and smiled. They started laughing again, good naturedly - in what
I'd like to think was admiration or maybe even great respect.

Except for the cashier who looked totally incredulous and
speechless. Almost like she was going to puke. She was younger
generation Vietnamese.

> Anyway, the bottle says, as you guessed, 'Mam Nem'. Ingredients are fish
> extract, water, salt. Its made by Foodex in Thailand.

Congratulations. Now open it and take a good long whiff!

I just bought some fermented whole shrimp, which is a new one for
me. It's mam tom... something. Mam tom (and mam rouc) is mam nem
made with shrimp instead of fish - it's even more potent. It's
equivalent to Thai shrimp paste (kapi) or it's other SE Asian names:
belecan, blachan, terasi, bagoong alamang, saeujeot. These are the
King of what I collectively call "Fermented Fish Products".

This version I have just bought is made with whole shrimp that look
quite like normal, edible shrimp and not decomposing at all. I hope
looks are deceiving, though. It is not the pink paste or sludge
that is usually associated with mam tom/rouc. If I can find my
camera I'll take a couple pictures before and after I open it.

> Maybe I should check my Vietnamese cookbooks for ideas.

Look fro a recipe for the mam nem sauce that uses 2x as much
pineapple as raw mam nem, a littler bit of sugar, hot peppers, and
rice vinegar.

> One of these days I will actually bite the bullet and open it.

Take 3 shots of 151 and go for it. It wasn't an acquired taste for
me. But I had a very good Vietanmese restaurant next door that
taught me well (even if I didn't understand a word they said). I
just found their menu in my scrap box yesterday. The place burned
down a decade ago.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:08:13 -0400, Ian wrote:
>
>> The Thai Asian Grocery lady in Vienna gave me this bottle when I asked
>> for Nahm Pla Raa, and she was curious about what I was going to do with
>> it - its off-beat even for Thai people, apparently.
>
> I used to buy the whole fish mam nem from the bulk section of a
> Vietnamese grocer in San Jose. The stuff looks like mud with blue
> streaks in it (from the skin that hasn't quite decomposed like the
> rest of the fish)
>
> One day I took it to the counter and a couple of ladies behind me
> started talking to the cashier in Vietnmamese and laughing, looking
> at me and pointing at my purchase.
>
> I had no idea what they were saying, but I could guess. I opened up
> the plastic container and took a good long whiff for them, then
> dipped my finger in it and licked it off. Then I rubbed my belly
> and smiled. They started laughing again, good naturedly - in what
> I'd like to think was admiration or maybe even great respect.

You might as well assume something like that!

>
> Except for the cashier who looked totally incredulous and
> speechless. Almost like she was going to puke. She was younger
> generation Vietnamese.
>
>> Anyway, the bottle says, as you guessed, 'Mam Nem'. Ingredients are fish
>> extract, water, salt. Its made by Foodex in Thailand.
>
> Congratulations. Now open it and take a good long whiff!
>
> I just bought some fermented whole shrimp, which is a new one for
> me. It's mam tom... something. Mam tom (and mam rouc) is mam nem
> made with shrimp instead of fish - it's even more potent. It's
> equivalent to Thai shrimp paste (kapi) or it's other SE Asian names:
> belecan, blachan, terasi, bagoong alamang, saeujeot. These are the
> King of what I collectively call "Fermented Fish Products".

I bet you could use that in Indonesian dishes quite successfully.

>
> This version I have just bought is made with whole shrimp that look
> quite like normal, edible shrimp and not decomposing at all. I hope
> looks are deceiving, though. It is not the pink paste or sludge
> that is usually associated with mam tom/rouc. If I can find my
> camera I'll take a couple pictures before and after I open it.
>
>> Maybe I should check my Vietnamese cookbooks for ideas.
>
> Look fro a recipe for the mam nem sauce that uses 2x as much
> pineapple as raw mam nem, a littler bit of sugar, hot peppers, and
> rice vinegar.

I found this:
http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/a...ng-sauce1.html

By coincidence it comes from Nicole Routhier, whose Cooking With Fruit
cookbook I just acquired.

>
>> One of these days I will actually bite the bullet and open it.
>
> Take 3 shots of 151 and go for it. It wasn't an acquired taste for
> me. But I had a very good Vietanmese restaurant next door that
> taught me well (even if I didn't understand a word they said). I
> just found their menu in my scrap box yesterday. The place burned
> down a decade ago.

I'll do something with it next weekend - which is when I have the time
to cook.

Thanks for the info, and the stories!

Ian

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:02:52 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> This version I have just bought is made with whole shrimp that look
> quite like normal, edible shrimp and not decomposing at all. I hope
> looks are deceiving, though. It is not the pink paste or sludge
> that is usually associated with mam tom/rouc. If I can find my
> camera I'll take a couple pictures before and after I open it.

Cabn't find my camera (refrigerator delivery guys from Lowe's
probably stole it, those ****ers). And the only thin I can find on
this product is it's bioterrorism page:

http://www.registrarcorp.com/fda-fce-sample/Mam Tom Hue Processed
Shrimp?lang=en

Ironic, eh?

I opened it and tried it and it's very good stuff.

-sw

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:15:51 -0400, Ian wrote:

> I found this:
> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/a...ng-sauce1.html
>
> By coincidence it comes from Nicole Routhier, whose Cooking With Fruit
> cookbook I just acquired.

That looks pretty good. I never thought about adding nouc mam in
there, but what the heck.

As the recipe suggests, mam nem is an accompaniment to "7 Courses of
Beef". Great for dipping beef sausages/meatballs, and beef wrapped
in perilla, Hawaiian ti, or la lot leaves. I make these at home
since I can't find any restaurant here that does them worth a damn.

You can also use it as a dip for spring or summer rolls made with
shrimp or crab.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:15:51 -0400, Ian wrote:
>
>> I found this:
>> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/a...ng-sauce1.html
>>
>> By coincidence it comes from Nicole Routhier, whose Cooking With Fruit
>> cookbook I just acquired.
>
> That looks pretty good. I never thought about adding nouc mam in
> there, but what the heck.
>
> As the recipe suggests, mam nem is an accompaniment to "7 Courses of
> Beef". Great for dipping beef sausages/meatballs, and beef wrapped
> in perilla, Hawaiian ti, or la lot leaves. I make these at home
> since I can't find any restaurant here that does them worth a damn.
>
> You can also use it as a dip for spring or summer rolls made with
> shrimp or crab.
>
> -sw

I'll give it a go!

I inadvertently renamed Nicole Routhier's cookbook, which was really
called "Nicole Routhier's Fruit Cookbook". Must have accuracy!

Thanks,

Ian

Nick seems to be strangely absent in this thread. Does Jun cook
with mam nem at all?

I know she uses some fermented fish product like a dry tuna (I got
up in the middle of the night and saw it on the counter and ate it
thinking it was a piece of pork - ack!).

I think it was the base for that condiment that Jim and I requested
doggie bags of. But it wasn't mam nem. It was drier like tuna.

-sw

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:08:13 -0400, Ian wrote:
>
>> The Thai Asian Grocery lady in Vienna gave me this bottle when I asked
>> for Nahm Pla Raa, and she was curious about what I was going to do with
>> it - its off-beat even for Thai people, apparently.
>
>I used to buy the whole fish mam nem from the bulk section of a
>Vietnamese grocer in San Jose. The stuff looks like mud with blue
>streaks in it (from the skin that hasn't quite decomposed like the
>rest of the fish)

This just as an aside. Wife & I had the pleasure of staying along the
San Jose-Santa Clara border on & off, several weeks at a time,
throughout the spring of 2008. You have oustanding food choices there
among grocers in addition to restaurants. Envious.

>One day I took it to the counter and a couple of ladies behind me
>started talking to the cashier in Vietnmamese and laughing, looking
>at me and pointing at my purchase.
>
>I had no idea what they were saying, but I could guess. I opened up
>the plastic container and took a good long whiff for them, then
>dipped my finger in it and licked it off. Then I rubbed my belly
>and smiled. They started laughing again, good naturedly - in what
>I'd like to think was admiration or maybe even great respect.
>
>Except for the cashier who looked totally incredulous and
>speechless. Almost like she was going to puke. She was younger
>generation Vietnamese.
>
>> Anyway, the bottle says, as you guessed, 'Mam Nem'. Ingredients are fish
>> extract, water, salt. Its made by Foodex in Thailand.
>
>Congratulations. Now open it and take a good long whiff!
>
>I just bought some fermented whole shrimp, which is a new one for
>me. It's mam tom... something. Mam tom (and mam rouc) is mam nem
>made with shrimp instead of fish - it's even more potent. It's
>equivalent to Thai shrimp paste (kapi) or it's other SE Asian names:
>belecan, blachan, terasi, bagoong alamang, saeujeot. These are the
>King of what I collectively call "Fermented Fish Products".
>
>This version I have just bought is made with whole shrimp that look
>quite like normal, edible shrimp and not decomposing at all. I hope
>looks are deceiving, though. It is not the pink paste or sludge
>that is usually associated with mam tom/rouc. If I can find my
>camera I'll take a couple pictures before and after I open it.
>
>> Maybe I should check my Vietnamese cookbooks for ideas.
>
>Look fro a recipe for the mam nem sauce that uses 2x as much
>pineapple as raw mam nem, a littler bit of sugar, hot peppers, and
>rice vinegar.
>
>> One of these days I will actually bite the bullet and open it.
>
>Take 3 shots of 151 and go for it. It wasn't an acquired taste for
>me. But I had a very good Vietanmese restaurant next door that
>taught me well (even if I didn't understand a word they said). I
>just found their menu in my scrap box yesterday. The place burned
>down a decade ago.
>
>-sw

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:23:05 -0500, Frawley wrote:

> This just as an aside. Wife & I had the pleasure of staying along the
> San Jose-Santa Clara border on & off, several weeks at a time,
> throughout the spring of 2008. You have oustanding food choices there
> among grocers in addition to restaurants. Envious.

Oh sure, rub it in! I sure miss that area.
This is where I learned how to eat.

I bought and ate everything I couldn't identify. This was before I
could ask people on the Internet. Not that it's any more help now
than it was then!

Eat now. Ask Later.

I'm still charting new territory for a Honky.

-s

sometime in the recent past Sqwertz posted this:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:23:05 -0500, Frawley wrote:
>
>> This just as an aside. Wife & I had the pleasure of staying along the
>> San Jose-Santa Clara border on & off, several weeks at a time,
>> throughout the spring of 2008. You have oustanding food choices there
>> among grocers in addition to restaurants. Envious.
>
> Oh sure, rub it in! I sure miss that area.
> This is where I learned how to eat.
>
> I bought and ate everything I couldn't identify. This was before I
> could ask people on the Internet. Not that it's any more help now
> than it was then!
>
> Eat now. Ask Later.
>
> I'm still charting new territory for a Honky.
>
> -s
I'll listen to some people, but usually end up trying something and glad
that I did. Don't think I'd never eat something just on somebodies advice if
it was really something others might eat, as long as it was fresh and
properly prepared for eating.

I think of Durian and those cooking show guys, Andrew Zimmern, who can't
stomach it and Anthony Bourdain who loves the stuff with a spoon.

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

Wilson > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> I think of Durian and those cooking show guys, Andrew Zimmern, who can't
> stomach it and Anthony Bourdain who loves the stuff with a spoon.

I love durian. Pic is my wife at a friend's farm, where we ate a lot of it!

http://www.tinypic.info/files/9n9s7ys4q7ak769e0nft.jpg

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061

On 29 Apr 2010 00:04:02 GMT, Nick Cramer wrote:

> Wilson > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> I think of Durian and those cooking show guys, Andrew Zimmern, who can't
>> stomach it and Anthony Bourdain who loves the stuff with a spoon.
>
> I love durian. Pic is my wife at a friend's farm, where we ate a lot of it!
>
> http://www.tinypic.info/files/9n9s7ys4q7ak769e0nft.jpg

If Zimmerman can't handle durian then he has no business having a
food show. I'm not much of a fruit person but I'd eat durian when
offered to me. A whole fruit is a bit much for just me to polish
off. But once dissected, the actual fruit pods freeze fairly well.

-sw

doesnt that smell bad?