Hello, All!

While trying to find a duck recipe I came upon "Little Ma's
Recipe Corner":
http://www.chinavista.com/culture/cuisine/recipes.html

There are numerous and sometimes unlikely recipes that I have
never seen before but one of them referred to "eight-fold hot"
oil and later said "Reduce the heat to six-fold". Does anyone
know what these terms means? Another recipe was for "new-born"
pigeon and in that one was to select new-born pigeons weighing
400g. Is this perhaps a recipe out of the past for dodo (it
*was* a pigeon) since 400g is about a pound :-)

TIA,


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote in message
...
<snip>
> There are numerous and sometimes unlikely recipes that I have
> never seen before but one of them referred to "eight-fold hot"
> oil and later said "Reduce the heat to six-fold". Does anyone
> know what these terms means?

well if you tell us which recipe it's taken from, we might be able to help.
The number 8 has a number of references in Chinese.

> Another recipe was for "new-born"
> pigeon and in that one was to select new-born pigeons weighing
> 400g. Is this perhaps a recipe out of the past for dodo (it
> *was* a pigeon) since 400g is about a pound :-)

it's a recipe for squab/young pigeons. Not a very popular dish outside HK,
Macau & Mainland but still popular there. I ate a few earlier this year when
i went there. Sometimes quails are substituted... someone(peter dy?) posted
pics from their San Francisco Chinatown trip/meal & quails were one of them.

side note : a lot of Chinese cooking you find in the West are Southern
Chinese dishes, mainly Cantonese as HongKong/Canton was the main route by
which many Chinese left Mainland China over the last 100+ years. It's only
in recent times that we hear, see or eat *other* regional dishes from China.

DC.

DC. wrote on Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:18:19 +0100:

D> "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote
D> in message ...
D> <snip>
??>> There are numerous and sometimes unlikely recipes that I
??>> have never seen before but one of them referred to
??>> "eight-fold hot" oil and later said "Reduce the heat to
??>> six-fold". Does anyone know what these terms means?

D> well if you tell us which recipe it's taken from, we might
D> be able to help. The number 8 has a number of references in
D> Chinese.

I'd half guessed later that "new-born" might be a bad
translation of squab :-). The recipe is quite short and appears
at the URL I gave.

Braised Fungus


Materials:
750g fungus
100g winter bamboo shoots
15g fresh garlic
10g scallion
10g garlic slices

Preparations:
1.. Rinse the fungus, stir-fry in 8-fold hot oil with
scallion knots and ginger, simmer for 10 minutes.
2.. Put some oil in the wok, when the oil is 6-fold
hot, drop in winter bamboo shoots, stir-fry till the shoots turn
slightly yellow, drop in the fungus and simmer for a while, add
seasonings, thicken with cornstarch solution.


James Silverton.

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Braised Fungus
>
>
> Materials:
> 750g fungus
> 100g winter bamboo shoots
> 15g fresh garlic
> 10g scallion
> 10g garlic slices
>
> Preparations:
> 1.. Rinse the fungus, stir-fry in 8-fold hot oil with
> scallion knots and ginger, simmer for 10 minutes.
> 2.. Put some oil in the wok, when the oil is 6-fold
> hot, drop in winter bamboo shoots, stir-fry till the shoots turn
> slightly yellow, drop in the fungus and simmer for a while, add
> seasonings, thicken with cornstarch solution.
>
>
> James Silverton.

Here's what i think... heat oil in wok till smoking, add scallion knots &
ginger then straight away lower flame to simmer for 10mins. This in
Cantonese is called *Pao-Heong* = to explode the fragrance meaning to make
it fragrant but not to burn it. This is a fairly common technique using
scallions & ginger, sometimes towards the end, a little sugar is added for a
sweeter fragrance & taste. I'm not familiar with the term "8 fold hot" & i
will ask about it, i'm quite sure it's an old Chinese saying. The 6-fold
would mean more or less the same thing but lesser heat... that's my guess.
Maybe someone else (Tippi) might have an answer/translation for 8 & 6 fold
hot.

HTH.

DC.

DC. wrote on Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:54:01 +0100:

D> "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote
D> in message ...
D> <snip>
??>> Braised Fungus
??>>
??>> Materials:
??>> 750g fungus
??>> 100g winter bamboo shoots
??>> 15g fresh garlic
??>> 10g scallion
??>> 10g garlic slices
??>>
??>> Preparations:
??>> 1.. Rinse the fungus, stir-fry in 8-fold hot oil
??>> with scallion knots and ginger, simmer for 10 minutes.
??>> 2.. Put some oil in the wok, when the oil is 6-fold hot,
??>> drop in winter bamboo shoots, stir-fry till the shoots
??>> turn slightly yellow, drop in the fungus and simmer for a
??>> while, add seasonings, thicken with cornstarch solution.
??>>
??>> James Silverton.

D> Here's what i think... heat oil in wok till smoking, add
D> scallion knots & ginger then straight away lower flame to
D> simmer for 10mins. This in Cantonese is called *Pao-Heong* =
D> to explode the fragrance meaning to make it fragrant but not
D> to burn it. This is a fairly common technique using
D> scallions & ginger, sometimes towards the end, a little
D> sugar is added for a sweeter fragrance & taste. I'm not
D> familiar with the term "8 fold hot" & i will ask about it,
D> i'm quite sure it's an old Chinese saying. The 6-fold would
D> mean more or less the same thing but lesser heat... that's
D> my guess. Maybe someone else (Tippi) might have an
D> answer/translation for 8 & 6 fold hot.

Fair enough and you are probably right as to how make the
recipe. I was just intrigued by a completely new terminology!

James Silverton.

>From the Chinese version of the recipe (included on that site), I see
that "8 fold" means 80%, so I guess 100% hot oil means smoking hot, and
you go down from there.

Interestingly enough, in another English recipe, they do say "40%
heated oil" rather than "4 fold".
http://www.chinavista.com/culture/cu...canton2-1.html

What's funny about this recipe is that it calls for "qiandao sauce". It
means thousand-island sauce. Yes that's right, it's Thousand Island
Dressing! they transliterated the translation, not knowing it's
originally English.

"DC." > wrote...
> it's a recipe for squab/young pigeons. Not a very popular dish outside HK,
> Macau & Mainland but still popular there. I ate a few earlier this year when
> i went there. Sometimes quails are substituted... someone(peter dy?) posted
> pics from their San Francisco Chinatown trip/meal & quails were one of them.

Oh so gross! I try to keep an open mind, but in my Western mind pigeons
are just the most disgusting creatures and I can't imagine ever eating
them. I know that they're a perfectly fine source of animal protein, but
to me pigeons are nothing more than shit machines, created by the gods to
unload poop on pedestrians walking below, or on my car.

A story about eating pigeons is from a Dilbert comic strip. In the story
Dilbert is summoned to appear before the accounting trolls who ask him why
he dared to bill $10 per day for meals during a business trip when the
accounting guidelines required him to stun a pigeon with his briefcase and
cook it on a travel iron. Dilbert responds that it was taking too long,
to which the accounting troll replies that he needs to use the wool
setting.

As for pigeons, I despise them. I like all kinds of other birds, but as for
pigeons I deliberately aim my car at them and gun the motor and try to run
over them - I've succeeded twice.

"Sexual Harassment Panda" > wrote:
>Trolling snipped]

PLONK!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

Salut/Hi Panda,

le/on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:02:17 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Oh so gross!

???? A bird is a bird. Either it's good to eat or it isn't.

> I try to keep an open mind,

Not hard enough, IMO.

> but in my Western mind pigeons are just the most disgusting creatures and I can't imagine ever eating
>them.

Not to your western mind, I'm also a westerner and I find pigeons no more
disgusting than any other bird, and their shit is considerably less stinky
than ducks, geese and any number of seabirds. So it's to your _prejudiced_
mind. You're of course entitled to your prejudices and opinions, but if you
express them here, and in such strong language, then you musr expect to get
your _personal, biased, and stupid_ opinion equally strongly criticised.

As for aiming your car at birds, I have done it successfully with pheasants
a couple of times. The art is to make sure you get them while still on the
ground. That way you can knock their heads off with the engine without
damaging them, and they're as good for the pot as if you had shot them. It's
also a bad idea to chase them onto the roadside. There are often hidden
obstacles - like ditches and insurance companies tend to take a dim view of
a claim for a new suspension because you were pigeon or pheasant hunting IN
the car.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian wrote on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:59:26 +0200:

IH> le/on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:02:17 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

??>> Oh so gross!

IH> ???? A bird is a bird. Either it's good to eat or it isn't.

??>> I try to keep an open mind,

IH> Not hard enough, IMO.

??>> but in my Western mind pigeons are just the most
??>> disgusting creatures and I can't imagine ever eating them.

IH> Not to your western mind, I'm also a westerner and I find
IH> pigeons no more disgusting than any other bird, and their
IH> shit is considerably less stinky than ducks, geese and any
IH> number of seabirds.

I don't think I would be able to bring myself to eat any feral
bird living in a city but I have eaten pigeons (farmed) a good
deal of my life. I wonder if any of those expressing disgust
have ever had "squab chicken"? I admit that most preparations of
pigeon that I have encountered have been in French-style cusine.

James Silverton.

James Silverton wrote:

> Ian wrote on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:59:26 +0200:
>
> IH> le/on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:02:17 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
> ??>> Oh so gross!
>
> IH> ???? A bird is a bird. Either it's good to eat or it isn't.
>
> ??>> I try to keep an open mind,
>
> IH> Not hard enough, IMO.
>
> ??>> but in my Western mind pigeons are just the most
> ??>> disgusting creatures and I can't imagine ever eating them.
>
> IH> Not to your western mind, I'm also a westerner and I find
> IH> pigeons no more disgusting than any other bird, and their
> IH> shit is considerably less stinky than ducks, geese and any
> IH> number of seabirds.
>
> I don't think I would be able to bring myself to eat any feral bird
> living in a city but I have eaten pigeons (farmed) a good deal of my
> life. I wonder if any of those expressing disgust have ever had "squab
> chicken"? I admit that most preparations of pigeon that I have
> encountered have been in French-style cusine.

I've eaten wild pideons in Holland, that we shot ourselves. Tasty!!!
I've also eaten quail, Thai style or something.

--
Dan

Salut/Hi James Silverton,

le/on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:54:02 -0400, tu disais/you said:-

>I don't think I would be able to bring myself to eat any feral
>bird living in a city

I'd hesitate over city pigeons, mainly because so many of them have bone TB.
However, not so long ago, a gentleman got arrested for selling feral London
Pigeons as woodpigeons to the restaurant trade, where it seems they were
highly appreciated.

> but I have eaten pigeons (farmed) a good deal of my life.

I've had farmed squab a few times, but greatly prefer woodpigeon. And doing
my bit to drag this even further back on topic, I once cooked a magnificent
twice cooked chinese recipe for pigeon. It was so good that I forgave it for
giving me second degree burns all over both feet.

I'd have put up the recipe if it had been in my database. It was a Ken Hom
recipe, cooked more or less like Crispy Duck at first but then deep fried
whole.

> I admit that most preparations of pigeon that I have encountered have been in French-style cusine.

Yup, same here. I remember to this day a dish at the Oak Room in London's
Meridien hotel, before Marco-Pierre White went there and spoilt things.
There were three different sliced breast fillets, each with its own sauce.
Cocky Ollie bird (pheasant for ordinary mortals) duck and pigeon.
magnificent.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Sexual Harassment Panda" > wrote in message
m...
> "DC." > wrote...
> > it's a recipe for squab/young pigeons. Not a very popular dish outside
HK,
> > Macau & Mainland but still popular there. I ate a few earlier this year
when
> > i went there. Sometimes quails are substituted... someone(peter dy?)
posted
> > pics from their San Francisco Chinatown trip/meal & quails were one of
them.
>
> Oh so gross! I try to keep an open mind, but in my Western mind pigeons
> are just the most disgusting creatures and I can't imagine ever eating
> them.

The French will be very surprised to learn that they aren't "Western". ;-)

Musashi

"Musashi" > wrote...
> The French will be very surprised to learn that they aren't "Western". ;-)

But the French eat snails too...

"Sexual Harassment Panda" > wrote in message
...
> "Musashi" > wrote...
> > The French will be very surprised to learn that they aren't "Western".
;-)
>
> But the French eat snails too...
>

Yes they do. But this was about pigeons wasn't it?

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote in message
...
: Hello, All!
:
: While trying to find a duck recipe I came upon "Little Ma's
: Recipe Corner":
: http://www.chinavista.com/culture/cuisine/recipes.html
:
: There are numerous and sometimes unlikely recipes that I have
: never seen before but one of them referred to "eight-fold hot"
: oil and later said "Reduce the heat to six-fold". Does anyone
: know what these terms means? Another recipe was for "new-born"
: pigeon and in that one was to select new-born pigeons weighing
: 400g. Is this perhaps a recipe out of the past for dodo (it
: *was* a pigeon) since 400g is about a pound :-)
:
Hi James,
the numbers suggest just the settings on the cooker?

Does 'select new-born pigeons weighing 400g' not allow a number of pigeons total
weight 400g?
cheers
Waaza
ps have you ever seen a baby pigeon?

"Wazza" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> ps have you ever seen a baby pigeon?

there seem to be some apprehension about eating baby pigeons/squabs but
certain specialised poultry farmers, esp. those breeding game birds still do
breed them for restaurants. I've eaten squabs in Chinese & French
restaurants, i don't see a problem with it as long as it's bred for human
consumption & passes any animal/poultry husbandary rules/laws.

DC.

"DC." > wrote:
> "Wazza" > wrote in message
> <snip>
> > ps have you ever seen a baby pigeon?
>
> there seem to be some apprehension about eating baby pigeons/squabs but
> certain specialised poultry farmers, esp. those breeding game birds still
> do breed them for restaurants. I've eaten squabs in Chinese & French
> restaurants, i don't see a problem with it as long as it's bred for human
> consumption & passes any animal/poultry husbandary rules/laws.
>
When I was in my early teens, my uncle raised homing pigeons. When he
wanted to get a pair to breed, combining such traits as speed and
endurance, he'd put them in a separately cooped area to um . . . you know.
Our best results were with old '49 and a red-bar hen. Their kids won a lot.

Sometimes the boy and girl birds in the general population would do what
boys and girls do and a hen would hatch a chick whose father couldn't be
determined. Those chicks would be raised to squab size, humanely
slaughtered and eaten by us. They were tasty!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:
> When I was in my early teens, my uncle raised homing pigeons. When he
> wanted to get a pair to breed, combining such traits as speed and
> endurance, he'd put them in a separately cooped area to um . . . you know.
> Our best results were with old '49 and a red-bar hen. Their kids won a lot.
>
> Sometimes the boy and girl birds in the general population would do what
> boys and girls do and a hen would hatch a chick whose father couldn't be
> determined. Those chicks would be raised to squab size, humanely
> slaughtered and eaten by us. They were tasty!

Didn't you grow up on a farm? Or am I thinking of someone else?

--
Dan

Dan Logcher > wrote:
> wrote:
> > When I was in my early teens, my uncle raised homing pigeons. When he
> > wanted to get a pair to breed, combining such traits as speed and
> > endurance, he'd put them in a separately cooped area to um . . . you
> > know. Our best results were with old '49 and a red-bar hen. Their kids
> > won a lot.
> >
> > Sometimes the boy and girl birds in the general population would do
> > what boys and girls do and a hen would hatch a chick whose father
> > couldn't be determined. Those chicks would be raised to squab size,
> > humanely slaughtered and eaten by us. They were tasty!
>
> Didn't you grow up on a farm? Or am I thinking of someone else?

I grew up in da Bronx. Gramma's farm on the weekends and summers.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !