I missed the opportunity to comment when the subject was raised in a
different thread within the past week or so, but I did want to make a couple
of points.

Whether one wanted to use the French expression "terrior" when one
considered the unique Sauvignons coming out of Marlborough is a moot point.

It is commonly accepted that no other wine region produces the pungent,
assertive, brightly fruited SBs that New Zealand (in general) and
Marlborough (in particular) turns out.

Consider this: the unique pungency associated with Marlborough Sauvignon
comes from miniscule quantities of the compound *methoxypyrazine*, which is
present (undesirable so!) in other varieties, Cabernet Sauvignon for one!

Marlborough has several very unique geological, meteorological and climatic
assets which together make this one of the very few places which make this
distinctive style, each contributing to the levels of methoxypyrazine (mpz -
my abbreviation!) present.

When visiting several vineyard/wineries, Mark Lipton, Ian Hoare and I were
told - "In Marlborough, SB grows like a weed!"

Generally, when we refer to Marlborough, we are talking about the Wairau
Valley; where the river has meandered for hundreds of years, bring shingle
(rocks) from the mountains, and depositing them on the plains, covered with
a few cm of alluvial topsoil.

Three to four metres below the surface there is copious quantities of fresh
water - after a few years the vines are "self irrigated"

Sauvignon Blanc is a vigorous vine that when left unchecked will produce a
huge canopy of leaves and a prodigious crop. This exuberance equates to
overtly vegetal wines that smell and taste of canned asparagus juice.

In Marlborough, growers use low-vigor rootstock and plant in well-draining,
low-fertility, rocky alluvial soils to discourage rampant growth.

Growers remove much excessive leaf growth to allow optimum light levels and
wind to flow through the vines.

You see, over-ripening will cause mpz levels to drop too low, thus producing
wines lacking that aggressive pungency associated with the wines.

Another major factor is also the quite wide diurnal temperature range -
maximums during the day seldom above 27/28 degr C - falling to 6/8 degr C at
night.

Careful viticultural practices (leaf plucking) attention to detail to ensure
picking is done just at the right time, and viola - making SB NZ style is
easy stuff - crush, press, filter, ferment, add a little Semillon (some
vineyards do!); perhaps a little in older oak (again, some do!) bottle and
four months later more of the same.

So, would you call this "terrior" - the uniqueness of a region with low soil
fertility but lots of natural water; generally cool climate, tempered by
regular sea breezes and "cold" nights?

I think so.

--

st.helier
(address fictitious to avoid spam)
hukerenui at hotmail dot com

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:29:27 +1200, "st.helier"
> wrote:


>
>So, would you call this "terrior" - the uniqueness of a region with low soil
>fertility but lots of natural water; generally cool climate, tempered by
>regular sea breezes and "cold" nights?
>
>I think so.


Definitely "terroir".

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Certainly terroir to me!
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> You see, over-ripening will cause mpz levels to drop too low, thus
producing
> wines lacking that aggressive pungency associated with the wines.

I've experienced the "aggressive pungency" you describe in Sauvignon Blanc
from other areas as well - notably Sonoma County and Sancerre - lhe latter
of which sparked the thread you referred to.

My understanding is that in Marlborough (and maybe the other loci as well) a
portion of the fruit is harvested early, while the grassy/cat pee aromatics
are strong. The remainder is harvested at full maturity and blended into
the early crop to bring up the alcohol and body of the wine. Cold tank
fermentation is the norm, which preserves the fruit better than barrel
fermentation.

Tom S

st.helier wrote:

> Growers remove much excessive leaf growth to allow optimum light levels and
> wind to flow through the vines.
>
> You see, over-ripening will cause mpz levels to drop too low, thus producing
> wines lacking that aggressive pungency associated with the wines.
>
> Another major factor is also the quite wide diurnal temperature range -
> maximums during the day seldom above 27/28 degr C - falling to 6/8 degr C at
> night.
>
> Careful viticultural practices (leaf plucking) attention to detail to ensure
> picking is done just at the right time, and viola - making SB NZ style is
> easy stuff - crush, press, filter, ferment, add a little Semillon (some
> vineyards do!); perhaps a little in older oak (again, some do!) bottle and
> four months later more of the same.

What a great post. A word that I have always used with reference to NZ
SBs is powerful. Aggressive pungency is exact. Seems to me that I have
also read that the vines get a tremendous number of days of sunlight
also. They are what Sancerres were 30 years ago. There are a few wines
produced from the Dry Creek Valley of Sonoma County that also develop
this pungency.

"Tom S" wrote in message.......

> I've experienced the "aggressive pungency" you describe in Sauvignon Blanc
> from other areas as well - notably Sonoma County and Sancerre - the latter
> of which sparked the thread you referred to.

Hi Tom, yes, I have no doubts in that respect.

Now that Marlborough is recognised as "the benchmark", there is an
increasing number of northern hemisphere winemakers traveling to these
shores to "learn the secrets of success" of Marlborough.

The truth is "terrior"!!!

> My understanding is that in Marlborough (and maybe the other loci as well)
> a portion of the fruit is harvested early, while the grassy/cat pee
aromatics
> are strong. The remainder is harvested at full maturity and blended into
> the early crop to bring up the alcohol and body of the wine.

With the greatest of respect, this may be how things are being done in
Sonoma and other "uncool" climates to try and replicate the Marlborough
style, but I can categorically state that this simply not the case in
Marlborough.

Grapes are ripened to optimum and then are picked - by far the greater %
machine harvested.

Of course, individual vineyards (and site within vineyards) will ripen at
differing rates and be harvested at different times, but the distinctive
qualities are NOT the result of "manipulation"


> Cold tank fermentation is the norm, which preserves the fruit
> better than barrel fermentation.


100% correct - but some winemakers, whilst not fermenting in oak, will give
a couple of months in older barrels to give a little complexity.

As far as Sancerre is concerned, French growers and winemakers are not
taking the success of Marlborough (and their corresponding diminishing of
popularity) laying down.

Of course, they too are changing their methods and winemaking techniques to
come up with their version of the Marlborough style.

One producer introduced their "Kiwi Cuvee" - whilst many other French
winemakers have done a sojourn in NZ to "further their education"

Generally, local vintners agree that "Imitation is the finest form of
flattery"

Regards

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> As far as Sancerre is concerned, French growers and winemakers are not
> taking the success of Marlborough (and their corresponding diminishing of
> popularity) laying down.
>
> Of course, they too are changing their methods and winemaking techniques
to
> come up with their version of the Marlborough style.

Sounds like a mistake to me. Why mess with a good thing (Sancerre)?

> One producer introduced their "Kiwi Cuvee" - whilst many other French
> winemakers have done a sojourn in NZ to "further their education"
>
> Generally, local vintners agree that "Imitation is the finest form of
> flattery"

I'm sure that the NZ winemakers would agree with that, but frankly I
wouldn't _want_ Sancerre to taste like NZSB. I'd prefer that it taste like
what it _is_! If I want NZSB, I'll go buy _that_.

Tom S

Salut/Hi st.helier,

le/on Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:00:42 +1200, tu disais/you said:-


>Now that Marlborough is recognised as "the benchmark", there is an
>increasing number of northern hemisphere winemakers traveling to these
>shores to "learn the secrets of success" of Marlborough.
>
>The truth is "terrior"!!!

!! I've hard that kiwis walk on their heads, Andrew but really!!!

>> My understanding is that in Marlborough (and maybe the other loci as well)
>> a portion of the fruit is harvested early, while the grassy/cat pee
>> aromatics are strong. The remainder is harvested at full maturity and blended into
>> the early crop to bring up the alcohol and body of the wine.

> but I can categorically state that this simply not the case in Marlborough.

I hope you don't mind if I put a question mark on this, Andrew. I have a
distinct recollection of several people - most notably Ewan Ward, the wine
maker of Morton Estate telling us in 2001 during the Wine Institute of New
Zealand's Tutored tasting "New Zealand Sauvignons" at Vinexpo - saying that
is _exactly_ how they play with the cepage to get the complexity and layers
of flavour they were looking for. Now that may have changed either before or
after you were involved or I attended that workshop, but my recollection on
this is pretty clear.
>
>Grapes are ripened to optimum and then are picked - by far the greater %
>machine harvested.

Again without wanting to be argumentative, "optimum" can be a variable
beast, and can be taken to mean that in some sites they pick at early
maturity and others at later, to give "optimum" results in the bottle. Do
you see what I mean?

I quote from the notes from the 1996 Villa Maria Cellar selection
Marlborough SB. "Once the grapes reached their degrees of ripeness we
harvested them and juiced them separately..." Which while not being a
specific corroboration, clearly implies that different degrees are sought.

Again, notes for the Morton Estate 1996 White label (Hawkes Bay - OK OK IMH)
Sauvignon Blanc:-

"As sauvignon Blanc ripens its varietal characters change from grassy herbal
tones to floral tropical tones.

The fruit for this wine was harvested after a period of approcimately two
weeks to capture the widest possible range of these flavours."

This second sentence only makes sense if for "after" you read "over", I
think.

>Of course, individual vineyards (and site within vineyards) will ripen at
>differing rates and be harvested at different times, but the distinctive
>qualities are NOT the result of "manipulation"

All wine making is manipulation in one sense or another. One man's
"manipulation" is another's "capture the widest possible range of these
flavours" I don't have any KIND of problem with this, and I didn't read
Tom's comments as being in any way pejorative.

>As far as Sancerre is concerned, French growers and winemakers are not
>taking the success of Marlborough (and their corresponding diminishing of
>popularity) laying down.

Personally I think they're crazy. Sancerre should remain Sancerre, Pouilly
Fumé, Pouilly Fumé and Bordeaux should remain Bordeaux. I always rather
regretted the shift in white Bordeaux wine making techniques to make their
wines crisper and grassier, and therefore closer to Sancerre.

The only reasons for doing so IMO a-
a) if the use of a varietal makes people _expect_ Sancerre to be like
something it isn't.

b) this - along with higher prices - damages sales.

But personally I think the answer should be better education of the public
rather than imitation.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Mike Tommasi wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:29:27 +1200, "st.helier"
>
> >So, would you call this "terrior" - the uniqueness of a region with low soil
> >fertility but lots of natural water; generally cool climate, tempered by
> >regular sea breezes and "cold" nights?
>
> Definitely "terroir".
>
> Mike

OK, I'm confused. Is the word, "terrior", or, "terroir"? Just like to know how
I _should_ be spelling it.

Regards,

- Roy

=*=*=
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark
Twain
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> All wine making is manipulation in one sense or another. One man's
> "manipulation" is another's "capture the widest possible range of these
> flavours" I don't have any KIND of problem with this, and I didn't read
> Tom's comments as being in any way pejorative.

Thank you Ian. I certainly didn't intend them to be. I _like_ Marlborough
SB. It's a refreshing change of pace from my usual fare, and not as
expen$ive. I rather cherish the fact that it seems to be _all_ fruit and
utterly devoid of oak and "terroir". Helps me reset my internal reference.
:^)

> Sancerre should remain Sancerre, Pouilly
> Fumé, Pouilly Fumé and Bordeaux should remain Bordeaux. I always rather
> regretted the shift in white Bordeaux wine making techniques to make their
> wines crisper and grassier, and therefore closer to Sancerre.

I can't claim much knowledge of white Bordeaux, but I know what you mean.

Here in California in the early to mid 1970s there was an orgiastic
_plethora_ of really stunning Chardonnays from Napa, Sonoma, Monterey and
Santa Cruz. Eventually however, our jaded wine writers - having tired of
all these big, fat, rich, opulent, buttery, oaky, toasty Chardonnays -
panned the entire lot as "overblown", and pined for the "food wines" of
Burgundy. The industry here reacted in an idiotic, knee-jerk fashion and
began harvesting earlier in an attempt to emulate the wines of Burgundy, as
well as please our critics. Some of this nonsense even carried over into
our red wines. The result was acidic, underripe, soulless, fruitless,
unpleasant, underoaked wines that were not only not particularly food
friendly, but also extremely _user_ unfriendly. I'll bet they aged well
however - as though anyone would care! >8^P~~|

It was but a few years until our winemakers came to their senses -
fortunately. They came to realize that those lusciously ripe grapes that
they took for granted here were something that a grower in Burgundy
_strives_ to attain, and would think he'd died and gone to heaven if he was
lucky enough to actually produce!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not disparaging white Burgundies. I've tasted some
I really liked. My preference happens to be California Chardonnay, but
that's not the point.

I may have overstated my case a little (I like hyperbole!), but I think you
get the idea. My point is, it simply isn't a good idea to try to try to
force a wine to express something that it isn't essentially representative
of. The winemaker should let it speak for itself.

I will now descend from my soapbox and have a glass of wine. I'm thirsty
after all this "talking". ;^)

Tom S

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Tommasi wrote:
>
> >
> > Definitely "terroir".
> >
> > Mike
>
> OK, I'm confused. Is the word, "terrior", or, "terroir"? Just like to
know how
> I _should_ be spelling it.
>
The word is "terroir". Pronounce it like "te-roar".
"Terrior" seems to be some kind of warrior, but rather on the terrorist
side.

Martin

>"Terrior" seems to be some kind of warrior, but rather on the terrorist
>side.

Or a rather noisy small dog......

"Bill Spohn" > wrote in message
...
> >"Terrior" seems to be some kind of warrior, but rather on the terrorist
> >side.
>
> Or a rather noisy small dog......

hohum :-)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:29:27 +1200, "st.helier"
> wrote:


> *methoxypyrazine*

Thanks for the very educational post!

But wasn't Methoxypyrazine that little leprechan type guy in Bizzaro
Superman! :-)

Myron

"Young Martle" > wrote in message
...
> But wasn't Methoxypyrazine that little leprechan type guy in Bizzaro
> Superman! :-)

Not quite. That was Mr. Mxyztplk.

Tom S

"Tom S" > wrote in news:%QAkc.5$n31.4@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com:

>
> "Young Martle" > wrote in message
> ...
>> But wasn't Methoxypyrazine that little leprechan type guy in Bizzaro
>> Superman! :-)
>
> Not quite. That was Mr. Mxyztplk.
>
> Tom S
>
>
>

Aw. I always thought it was Mxyzptlk.

d
"Doesn't he work for Randall Grahm?"