pltrgyst > wrote:

> I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce,
> mozzarella or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a
> variety of other toppings, then I call it pizza.

Surely not just any flatbread? Shouldn't pizza crust mean something
more specific? After all, the crust is even more important than the
toppings. Surely you wouldn't call lavash bread even with those
toppings pizza? As to toppings, parmesan has never been at all
traditional, even if only because its melting qualities are very poor
indeed. Also, how about pizza al funghi, topped with mushrooms and with
no tomato sauce, no cheese of any kind, and no oregano?

Myself, I would surely define pizza as a certain method, first and
foremost.

> I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
> mentally ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming
> the crust, I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

Which tells me that you don't consider stromboli or lasagna to be a
pizza, either. :-)

> But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in
> serving pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go
> figure.

Savages!

Victor

<Alan> wrote:

> The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."

Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
"sausage", and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.

As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.

But then, I am also a language snob. :-)

Victor

Why would you say it's a lot of trouble, a simple dough with no exotic
ingredients, overnight cold fermented, then the pizza is baked on a stone in
your oven. Can't get much simpler unless your reheating a frozen pizza
(egad!)

--

Mike S.

<Alan > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:14:08 GMT, "Mikey S."
> > wrote:
>
>>The best pizza dough I have ever used is the simplest, it's based on a
>>dough
>>made for baguettes but it also works incredibly well for pizza. It is
>>called
>>'PAIN a l'ANCIENNE' and I orignally found it in a book called "the bread
>>Bakers Apprentice>
> That's more trouble than I'm willing to go to in my own
> kitchen, but I bet it's VERY good pizza!
>
> :-)
>
> Alan Moorman
>
>

<Alan> wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> ><Alan> wrote:
> >
> >> The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."
> >
> >Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
> >people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
> >"sausage",
>
> absolutely not true.

What *exactly* is "absolutely not true"?

> Hamburger, yes. Sausage, no.
> Sausage, as we ALL know is spiced an flavored.

Did I say anything about spices and flavourings, or lack of them?

Besides, what "you ALL" know is not necessarily related to reality. You
do not really mean that no unspiced and unflavoured sausage exists?
What if you stuff unspiced, unseasoned minced meat in casings... won't
it become a sausage by definition? Not that it matters in this case...

You might also want to acquire a good dictionary (I believe I already
told you that). Here, for example, is what the Compact Oxford English
Dictionary (which is based on The OED) says:
*
sausage

*** noun 1 a short tube of raw minced meat encased in a skin, that is
grilled or fried before eating. 2 a tube of seasoned minced meat that is
cooked or preserved and eaten cold in slices. 3 a cylindrical object.

> > and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
> >institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.
>
> The word means that.

Only in America. Did you actually read my post? Did you comprehend it?
These are, by the way, rhetorical questions, so just re-read the
paragraph you quoted below - about the yet another example of the
general supplanting the particular in the American version of English.

Quotation from the same dictionary:

student

*** noun 1 a person studying at a university or other place of higher
education. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a school pupil. 3 before another noun
denoting someone who is studying to enter a particular profession: a
student nurse. 4 a person who takes a particular interest in a subject.

BTW, these are not just British examples, but international-English
ones. International Student Cards are issued only to university or
college students; International Scholar Cards are issued to school
pupils.

> >As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
> >the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
> >English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.
> >
> Huh?

You mean you not only lack reading comprehension but also a rudimentary
sense of humour?

> >But then, I am also a language snob. :-)
>
> Language snot, not snob.
>
> Well, perhaps, both.

I told you already that getting defensive out of ignorance or inability
to appreciate differences in words or concepts does not reflect well on
you.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> <Alan> wrote:
>
>> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>>
>>> <Alan> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."
>>> Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
>>> people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
>>> "sausage",
>> absolutely not true.
>
> What *exactly* is "absolutely not true"?
>
>> Hamburger, yes. Sausage, no.
>> Sausage, as we ALL know is spiced an flavored.
>
> Did I say anything about spices and flavourings, or lack of them?
>
> Besides, what "you ALL" know is not necessarily related to reality. You
> do not really mean that no unspiced and unflavoured sausage exists?
> What if you stuff unspiced, unseasoned minced meat in casings... won't
> it become a sausage by definition? Not that it matters in this case...
>
> You might also want to acquire a good dictionary (I believe I already
> told you that). Here, for example, is what the Compact Oxford English
> Dictionary (which is based on The OED) says:
>
> sausage
>
> * noun 1 a short tube of raw minced meat encased in a skin, that is
> grilled or fried before eating. 2 a tube of seasoned minced meat that is
> cooked or preserved and eaten cold in slices. 3 a cylindrical object.
>
>>> and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
>>> institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.
>> The word means that.
>
> Only in America. Did you actually read my post? Did you comprehend it?
> These are, by the way, rhetorical questions, so just re-read the
> paragraph you quoted below - about the yet another example of the
> general supplanting the particular in the American version of English.
>
> Quotation from the same dictionary:
>
> student
>
> * noun 1 a person studying at a university or other place of higher
> education. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a school pupil. 3 before another noun
> denoting someone who is studying to enter a particular profession: a
> student nurse. 4 a person who takes a particular interest in a subject.
>
> BTW, these are not just British examples, but international-English
> ones. International Student Cards are issued only to university or
> college students; International Scholar Cards are issued to school
> pupils.
>
>>> As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
>>> the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
>>> English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.
>>>
>> Huh?
>
> You mean you not only lack reading comprehension but also a rudimentary
> sense of humour?
>
>>> But then, I am also a language snob. :-)
>> Language snot, not snob.
>>
>> Well, perhaps, both.
>
> I told you already that getting defensive out of ignorance or inability
> to appreciate differences in words or concepts does not reflect well on
> you.
>
> Victor

Relax chaps! It's only a pizza (or sausage or whatever)
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
"It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death. I just
think we should take the warning labels off of everything and let the
problem take care of itself."

Bruce Fletcher > wrote:

> Relax chaps! It's only a pizza (or sausage or whatever)

Bruce, old chap, 'tis but a smidgeon of misunderstanding, a tiniest hint
of a disagreement, but otherwise a veritable brotherly, sisterly and
motherly (in-law) love-fest. 'tis not as if we were discussing
something really serious, like chili, Alfredo sauce, curry, boiled
barbecued ribs, or Stroganoff (all of which, BTW, are identical - to
pizza and to each other).

Victor

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:22:11 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:

>Bruce, old chap, 'tis but a smidgeon of misunderstanding, a tiniest hint
>of a disagreement, but otherwise a veritable brotherly, sisterly and
>motherly (in-law) love-fest. 'tis not as if we were discussing
>something really serious, like chili, Alfredo sauce, curry, boiled
>barbecued ribs, or Stroganoff (all of which, BTW, are identical - to
>pizza and to each other).

I highly recommend giving old Victor the Sack -- he's tiresome. {plonk}

-- Larry

> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:22:11 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> Bruce, old chap, 'tis but a smidgeon of misunderstanding, a tiniest hint
> of a disagreement, but otherwise a veritable brotherly, sisterly and
> motherly (in-law) love-fest. 'tis not as if we were discussing
> something really serious, like chili, Alfredo sauce, curry, boiled
> barbecued ribs, or Stroganoff (all of which, BTW, are identical - to
> pizza and to each other).

Boiled barbecued ribs - sounds almost as tasty as the pig's trotters and
cow-heel we used to get from the UCP (United Cattle Products) shop in
Manchester when I was about 10. Mind you their tripe was delicious <g>
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
"It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death. I just
think we should take the warning labels off of everything and let the
problem take care of itself."

Bruce Fletcher > wrote:

> Boiled barbecued ribs - sounds almost as tasty as the pig's trotters and
> cow-heel we used to get from the UCP (United Cattle Products) shop in
> Manchester when I was about 10. Mind you their tripe was delicious <g>

Pig's trotters are actually wonderful. It is interesting that they are
often cooked exactly the way ribs shouldn't - first they are braised,
then grilled. I wonder if they can be slowly barbecued (in the southern
USA sense of the word) instead.

Classic French recipes, mostly variations on the Sainte-Ménéhould theme,
call for braising them on low heat for up to ten hours. Front trotters
are considered much superior to hind ones. In order to prevent them
from falling apart during such a long cooking, they are individually
wrapped in linen cloth and tied with twine. Then they are slowly
braised, covered, together with vegetables, white wine, and spices, for
a long time. Then they are unwrapped, smothered with butter and rolled
in breadcrumbs. Then they are slowly grilled. Serve with rémoulade or
béarnaise, or just with mustard. Very tasty.

Or you can make pieds de cochon farcis au foie gras...

Victor

<Alan> wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> ><Alan> wrote:
> >
> >> (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
> >> >people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
> >> >"sausage",
>
> No, you equated "hamburger" and "sausage" -- two different
> food items.

I think you are unable to read and to grasp a simple argument, as
illustrated above.

Are you really trying to convince *me* that "hamburger" and "sausage"
are supposed to be different? What a hoot!

Are you even aware of what I am - and have been - talking about?

> It would be "unseasoned minced meat in casings" or ground
> meat, but not sausage.

Not that this really matters, but here, again, is a dictionary
definition:

> >*** noun 1 a short tube of raw minced meat encased in a skin, that is
> >grilled or fried before eating.

No mention of seasonings.

> >Only in America. Did you actually read my post? Did you comprehend it?

And... did you?

> >These are, by the way, rhetorical questions, so just re-read the
> >paragraph you quoted below - about the yet another example of the
> >general supplanting the particular in the American version of English.

Does not the above, repeated twice, give you any idea of what I am
really talking about?

> >*** noun 1 a person studying at a university or other place of higher
> >education. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a school pupil. 3 before another noun
> >denoting someone who is studying to enter a particular profession: a
> >student nurse. 4 a person who takes a particular interest in a subject.
>
> Uh. Did you notice definition #2. A school pupil.
> No age or other specification.

No, I guess it *is* futile to even try to argue with you. You keep
arguing with yourself or with some imaginary opponent, no matter what I
say.

> Well, Victor, your facts are mostly disputable, and you are
> obviously more willing to argue than deal in facts.

You have yet to present a single fact for me to deal with, and a single
evidence of why my facts (and which ones) are disputable. No surprise,
since you are unable to even understand what it is I am really talking
about.

> And you seem to hold yourself above the rest for being able
> to express your questionable knowledge.

The "rest" being you, presumably? I suspect you are the only one
overwhelmed by my oh-so-superior expression in my poor, non-native
English.

> Snot. Snob.

You are unable to even follow a simple line of thought and so you resort
to calling people names. Very nice. How do your parents react, or used
to react, to such behaviour, I wonder?

> It's one thing to be a snob. It is another to be snotty
> about it by still standing by expressing "knowledge" which
> is not particularly true, or by continuing to declaim your
> own, very proscribed definitions of what something is.
> Pizza, for example.

Physician, heal thyself!

To paraphrase Russ Allbery, if you were projecting any more, you could
rent yourself out as a cinema.

Victor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Bruce Fletcher > wrote:
>
> > Boiled barbecued ribs - sounds almost as tasty as the pig's trotters and
> > cow-heel we used to get from the UCP (United Cattle Products) shop in
> > Manchester when I was about 10. Mind you their tripe was delicious <g>
>
> Pig's trotters are actually wonderful. It is interesting that they are
> often cooked exactly the way ribs shouldn't - first they are braised,
> then grilled. I wonder if they can be slowly barbecued (in the southern
> USA sense of the word) instead.
>
> Classic French recipes, mostly variations on the Sainte-Ménéhould theme,
> call for braising them on low heat for up to ten hours. Front trotters
> are considered much superior to hind ones. In order to prevent them
> from falling apart during such a long cooking, they are individually
> wrapped in linen cloth and tied with twine. Then they are slowly
> braised, covered, together with vegetables, white wine, and spices, for
> a long time. Then they are unwrapped, smothered with butter and rolled
> in breadcrumbs. Then they are slowly grilled. Serve with rémoulade or
> béarnaise, or just with mustard. Very tasty.
>
> Or you can make pieds de cochon farcis au foie gras...
>
> Victor

They make a wonderful stock.

I pressure cook them for 50 minutes.

I'll have to try wrapping them to keep them from splitting and falling
apart next time. Thanks for the idea!

I really do love those things and have been jonesing for them lately.
When I eat more trotters (and phoenix claws), my fingernails grow in
stronger and don't tend to split as much. My hair grows faster too.

I presume it's the collagen content.
Supposed to be good for osteoarthritis too.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:29:58 GMT, "Roughrider50" >
> wrote:
>
>>I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
>>street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever
>>eaten........Add
>>to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
>>world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe....
>
> I think all those things have improved with age (yours -- and mine). 8
>
> And besides, the best ochsenschwanzsuppe was clearly at der Roter Ochsen
> in
> Heidelberg.
>
> I also remember pop-top bottles of wonderful fresh beer (Weldebrau)
> magically
> appearing on my doorstep every morning.
>
> But I sure don't remember good pizza in Germany. France, yes; Holland,
> yes;
> Italy, yes; but not Germany.
>
> -- Larry (owned the Army's Berlin trains in the '60s, and spent a lot of
> time
> there...)

Well I doubt if the pizza could be called classic by the purists here but it
tasted great, which is all that matters. They had some kind of peppers on
them that made it stand out. If memory serves me right it was about a block
down the street from Andrews barracks.
As far as the Army trains in Berlin(AKA Duty train) that was one of my
assignments.As a radio operator I'd ride the duty train to Helmstadt turn
around after a brief layover & return. Pretty interesting, especially when
we'd stop in Magdeburg to show our documents to the Russians. Got a lot of
good souvenirs that way ).