First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):

http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg

The pizza peel is also homemade. I made it from scrap wood and coated in
shellac. I have it for about 10 years.

Dough for a 13"-15" pizza

3/4 cups of water.
1/2 tsp yeast
1/2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
about 2 cups of KA white flour.

Add yeast and sugar to warm water to dissolve.

I use a cuisinart to knead the dough. The dough should be just slightly
sticky.

Let dough rise is a slightly oily pot for about and hour or two.

Preheat oven to 550 degrees with pizza stone in oven.

I use Tuttorosso crushed tomatoes with basil for the pizza sauce. I
found it a lot less expensive (about $1 per 28oz can) and much better
tasting than commerical "pizza" sauce.

I use Sargento mozzarella & provolone. Every now and then my supermarket
has them on sale for half price so I stock on them.

I roll the dough on a lightly dusted pizza peel. I measure the dough
out for my pizza stone; a 14" stone bought from Bed & Bath for $15. I
wish I still had my commercial oven where I used to make 20" pizzas.

Add a little oregano and or garlic powder to the top of the cheese.

Slide the pizza onto heated stone in oven.

Carefully watch the pizza. It can go from delicious to burned in a few
minutes. When the bottom the crust is slightly brown, I remove the pizza.

My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another matter.

"John" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg

Gnam Gnam! It seems very good!

thank you for this pic!

--
Merry Christmas
Pandora
--------------------------------------
>
> The pizza peel is also homemade. I made it from scrap wood and coated in
> shellac. I have it for about 10 years.
>
> Dough for a 13"-15" pizza
>
> 3/4 cups of water.
> 1/2 tsp yeast
> 1/2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
> about 2 cups of KA white flour.
>
> Add yeast and sugar to warm water to dissolve.
>
> I use a cuisinart to knead the dough. The dough should be just slightly
> sticky.
>
> Let dough rise is a slightly oily pot for about and hour or two.
>
> Preheat oven to 550 degrees with pizza stone in oven.
>
> I use Tuttorosso crushed tomatoes with basil for the pizza sauce. I found
> it a lot less expensive (about $1 per 28oz can) and much better tasting
> than commerical "pizza" sauce.
>
> I use Sargento mozzarella & provolone. Every now and then my supermarket
> has them on sale for half price so I stock on them.
>
> I roll the dough on a lightly dusted pizza peel. I measure the dough out
> for my pizza stone; a 14" stone bought from Bed & Bath for $15. I wish I
> still had my commercial oven where I used to make 20" pizzas.
>
> Add a little oregano and or garlic powder to the top of the cheese.
>
> Slide the pizza onto heated stone in oven.
>
> Carefully watch the pizza. It can go from delicious to burned in a few
> minutes. When the bottom the crust is slightly brown, I remove the pizza.
>
> My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
> salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another
> matter.
>

"John" > wrote in message
...
> First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg
>
> The pizza peel is also homemade. I made it from scrap wood and coated in
> shellac. I have it for about 10 years.
>
> Dough for a 13"-15" pizza
>
> 3/4 cups of water.
> 1/2 tsp yeast
> 1/2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
> about 2 cups of KA white flour.
>
> Add yeast and sugar to warm water to dissolve.
>
> I use a cuisinart to knead the dough. The dough should be just slightly
> sticky.
>
> Let dough rise is a slightly oily pot for about and hour or two.
>
> Preheat oven to 550 degrees with pizza stone in oven.
>
> I use Tuttorosso crushed tomatoes with basil for the pizza sauce. I found
> it a lot less expensive (about $1 per 28oz can) and much better tasting
> than commerical "pizza" sauce.
>
> I use Sargento mozzarella & provolone. Every now and then my supermarket
> has them on sale for half price so I stock on them.
>
> I roll the dough on a lightly dusted pizza peel. I measure the dough out
> for my pizza stone; a 14" stone bought from Bed & Bath for $15. I wish I
> still had my commercial oven where I used to make 20" pizzas.
>
> Add a little oregano and or garlic powder to the top of the cheese.
>
> Slide the pizza onto heated stone in oven.
>
> Carefully watch the pizza. It can go from delicious to burned in a few
> minutes. When the bottom the crust is slightly brown, I remove the pizza.
>
> My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
> salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another
> matter.
>
Your picture looks very nice. Some time ago a breadmaker friend told me not
to roll
pizza dough, but to stretch it by hand, coupled with the occasional toss
into the air. I started doing this and I not do it routinely. The finished
crust has an airy delicacy at the edges, and somehow the bottom remains
crispier than the rolled. I'm guessing you are rising for a long time with
only 1/2 tsp yeast.

I've been doing what you do with sauce for some time. Trader Jose's has 28oz
Roma tomatoes for about a buck a can. Process it, season it, and that's it.
Some time ago the San Francisco Chronicle had a taste test on canned
tomatoes, and Trader Joe's won, over other very expensive ones.

Making pizza is a mental illness, albeit an enjoyable one.

Kent

John wrote:

>
> My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
> salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another matter.
>

John,

I'm a Jersey Girl living in way-the-heck-south Texas, about 15 miles
from the Gulf of Mexico and 6 miles from the Rio Grande, the border with
the country of Mexico. Finding decent pizza here is impossible.

Prior to settling here, we lived and traveled in our RVs for 9 years. We
never found pizza comparable to the Northeast.

I make my own pizza, too. My recipe is pretty much the same as yours. I
use the Cuisineart to mix the dough, too. It is definitely worth the
wait for the dough to rise. Those who don't know *real* pizza aren't
missing anything and will eat "corporate" pizza and think it's just
fine. I make my sauce from tomato puree. The only prepared pizza sauce
that is a little palatable is Ragu Pizza Quick.

I also use Sargento's cheeses because there isn't much choice here in
Mexico Texas. I freshly grate Parmasano Reggiano and Locatelli Romano on
top of the mozzarella. Local groceries do carry the good imported
cheeses as does Sam's Club.
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

John wrote:
> First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg

Sigh. John, hon. If you are going to post a photo of a pizza in this
newsgroup you have to follow the Cabal-approved format. The header
should merely read "I made a pizza".

HTH and HAND,

-L.

It looks scrumptious. What kind of King Arthur flour did you use?

I recently tried some of their Italian-Style Flour for a pizza. It
makes a much "looser" dough. A bit harder to control than one made
from all-purpose or bread flour.

Do you place your stone on the bottom of your oven?

In a smaller oven, I place pizza, on a metal pan, directly onto the
bottom.

John wrote:
> First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg
<snip>

That pizza looks yummy!! Your peel also looks professional and you hand
made it?!?

I see you obtained good results from rolling your dough. I normally
pinch the crust out then stretch it. Sometimes i will spin it in the
air too because it gives a nice round crust. Always i stretch the
center with my knuckles to thin it out. Then i let it rise for a few
minutes, this combined with oven spring gives just a thick enough crust
to be both chewy and crispy.

John wrote:
<snip>
Another post was started by someone claiming your pizza was dull...in
his opinion. Disregard those ranting comments, your pizza is not dull
and it looks better than most of my attempts. Im not sure why he felt
the urge to start a new thread just to claim yours was dull and then
link to his own. Others stepped in and supported you.

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is "KA white flour?"
Cindy

"John" > wrote in message
...
> First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg
>
> The pizza peel is also homemade. I made it from scrap wood and coated in
> shellac. I have it for about 10 years.
>
> Dough for a 13"-15" pizza
>
> 3/4 cups of water.
> 1/2 tsp yeast
> 1/2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
> about 2 cups of KA white flour.
>
> Add yeast and sugar to warm water to dissolve.
>
> I use a cuisinart to knead the dough. The dough should be just slightly
> sticky.
>
> Let dough rise is a slightly oily pot for about and hour or two.
>
> Preheat oven to 550 degrees with pizza stone in oven.
>
> I use Tuttorosso crushed tomatoes with basil for the pizza sauce. I
> found it a lot less expensive (about $1 per 28oz can) and much better
> tasting than commerical "pizza" sauce.
>
> I use Sargento mozzarella & provolone. Every now and then my supermarket
> has them on sale for half price so I stock on them.
>
> I roll the dough on a lightly dusted pizza peel. I measure the dough
> out for my pizza stone; a 14" stone bought from Bed & Bath for $15. I
> wish I still had my commercial oven where I used to make 20" pizzas.
>
> Add a little oregano and or garlic powder to the top of the cheese.
>
> Slide the pizza onto heated stone in oven.
>
> Carefully watch the pizza. It can go from delicious to burned in a few
> minutes. When the bottom the crust is slightly brown, I remove the pizza.
>
> My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
> salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another
matter.
>

Cindy wrote:
> At the risk of sounding stupid, what is "KA white flour?"
> Cindy

King Arthur Flour - http://www.kingarthurflour.com/

...fred

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:05:05 -0600, Alan wrote:

>As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!
>
>On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:46:44 -0500, John >
>wrote:

Well, much easier than thinking, anyway, since it took you almost two months to
comment on this thread, and inanity is the best you could do.

-- Larry

[bunch of fake newsgroups snipped]

<Alan> wrote:

> As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!

Nonsense. Anyone who knows anything at all about real, as distinct from
any imitation, pizza, also knows that it is all but impossible to make
it at home, lacking the necessary wood-fired oven with its very high
temperatures and the very particular skills required to form and bake
anything even resembling the real thing. It is not accidental that real
pizzaiolos in Italy earn quite as much as a chef of a very respected
full-scale restaurant. That is why a pizza in a serious Italian
pizzeria costs so much, in spite of the low-costs materials required to
make it - the high salary of the pizzaiolo makes it impossible to price
it any lower. Ever been in Italy? Ever seen how real pizza is made?

A generic flat-bread pie, is, on the the other hand, very easy to make
indeed.

Victor

<Alan> wrote:

> Have a pizza stone in your oven.
>
> Turn the oven on high before you start assembling the crust
> and the ingredients, so that stone is HOT before you put the
> pizza on it.

Nonsense.

You can fill your oven full of stones and rocks and it still won't be
anywhere near 485°C (905°F) required to make traditional pizza.

And I will bet anything that, if you lack years of practice with a real
pizzaiolo, you won't be able to make anything even resembling
traditional pizza crust which is always stretched by hand (no rolling
pin is ever used) and which should be no thicker than 0.3 cm (0.12 in)
in the centre and 1-2 cm (0.4-0.8 in) at the edges, with the pizza never
exceeding 35 cm (14 in) in diameter. The baking time should not exceed
90 seconds. The baked pizza should still remains so elastic that it can
be rolled into a tube.

You can read all about it and more in Gazetta Ufficiale of 24th May,
2004.

Easy, indeed!

Victor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> <Alan> wrote:
>
> > Have a pizza stone in your oven.
> >
> > Turn the oven on high before you start assembling the crust
> > and the ingredients, so that stone is HOT before you put the
> > pizza on it.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> You can fill your oven full of stones and rocks and it still won't be
> anywhere near 485°C (905°F) required to make traditional pizza.


We just eat fake pizza. Works for us.

Alan wrote in
:

> As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!

But making a GOOD one isn't always so. Gotta do it right

> I've used a Betty Crocker recipe for years, and don't worry
> about brand-name tomatoes, etc. etc. etc.

Brand names can make a difference tho, for example, the use of King
Arthur AP Flour makes a difference in the final texture of the dough due
to the higher than normal AP protien levels.

THat said, I'm lazy, I just keep pouches of either Wal-Mart brand or
Martha White brand dough mix on hand, and put it together when I need it.
Tho now that I thursdays off, and friday is our Pizza day, I"ll likely
move to scratch dough.

A month and two days equals "almost two months?"

Sure hope you use a timer for cooking....

pltrgyst wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:05:05 -0600, Alan wrote:
>
>> As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!
>>
>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:46:44 -0500, John >
>> wrote:
>
> Well, much easier than thinking, anyway, since it took you almost two months to
> comment on this thread, and inanity is the best you could do.
>
> -- Larry

On Feb 11, 6:51 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >,
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > <Alan> wrote:
>
> > > Have a pizza stone in your oven.
>
> > > Turn the oven on high before you start assembling the crust
> > > and the ingredients, so that stone is HOT before you put the
> > > pizza on it.
>
> > Nonsense.
>
> > You can fill your oven full of stones and rocks and it still won't be
> > anywhere near 485°C (905°F) required to make traditional pizza.
>
> We just eat fake pizza. Works for us.

My mother was shown how to make pizza by an Italian. It is the
opposite of how pizza is made in the U.S. First the crust is coated
with olive oil. The meat, mushrooms, and other "filling" ingrediants
are placed on the pizza crust. Cheese goes on next. Then tomato
sauce on top. The main difference is that the crust does not get
soggy with the tomato sauce; the cheese melts to form a type of top
crust; and the "filling" being under the melted cheese does not get
overcooked and dried out. Have any of you had or seen pizza done
like this. Having grown up on it, I find traditional pizza inferior.

56 days is just a smidge more than one month and two days. Sure hope you use
someone else's brain for counting eggs...

-- Larry

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 01:14:51 -0600, Christine > wrote:

>A month and two days equals "almost two months?"
>
>Sure hope you use a timer for cooking....
>
>pltrgyst wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:05:05 -0600, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!
>>>
>>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:46:44 -0500, John >
>>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, much easier than thinking, anyway, since it took you almost two months to
>> comment on this thread, and inanity is the best you could do.
>>
>> -- Larry

On 11 Feb 2007 23:44:30 -0800, "Shadowdog" > wrote:

>My mother was shown how to make pizza by an Italian. It is the
>opposite of how pizza is made in the U.S. First the crust is coated
>with olive oil. The meat, mushrooms, and other "filling" ingrediants
>are placed on the pizza crust. Cheese goes on next. Then tomato
>sauce on top. The main difference is that the crust does not get
>soggy with the tomato sauce; the cheese melts to form a type of top
>crust; and the "filling" being under the melted cheese does not get
>overcooked and dried out. Have any of you had or seen pizza done
>like this.

Yeah, that's how Pizza Slut does it. And that's not how it's done in Naples,
supposedly the home of pizza.

I oil the crust (especially when grilling pizza), then add sauce, etc. The oil
prevents the crust from absorbing the sauce.

-- Larry

The best pizza dough I have ever used is the simplest, it's based on a dough
made for baguettes but it also works incredibly well for pizza. It is called
'PAIN a l'ANCIENNE' and I orignally found it in a book called "the bread
Bakers Apprentice"...a great book BTW. It's a very simple flour, water, salt
and yeast dough but with a twist, it's mixed cold and fermented cold first
to let some enzyme magic take place first. The flavor is much improved by
this method. King Arthur Bread flour works best but plain old Pillsbury All
Purpose isn't bad either and when I bake 6 pizzas for a bunch of my kid's
friends they get the .89 cents a bag pillsbury stuff and love it.

I found a copy of this recipe online with google so here is a link
http://www.shaboomskitchen.com/archi...lancienne.html

I make my pizza 15 inches round and as thin as I can make it, by hand, no
rolling pin.

I heat the oven with a stone or tiles to 550 for about 45 minutes, then
build the pizza on parchment paper, peel it onto the stone, after 5 minutes
I take it out with the peel, turn it 180 degrees and remove the parchment
and slide it right onto the stone, and it's done in 7 more minutes, for a
total of 12 minutes. Using the parchment lets me skip throwing semolina or
cornmeal all over the oven.This gives a nice dark, crispy crust, if you want
it lighter and chewier try 10-11 minutes, my wife prefers it that way.
Let the stone reheat 10 minutes at least between pies.

--

Mike S.

"Mike H" > wrote in message
9.130...
> Alan wrote in
> :
>
>> As anyone who cooks much knows, making pizza is very easy!
>
> But making a GOOD one isn't always so. Gotta do it right
>
>> I've used a Betty Crocker recipe for years, and don't worry
>> about brand-name tomatoes, etc. etc. etc.
>
> Brand names can make a difference tho, for example, the use of King
> Arthur AP Flour makes a difference in the final texture of the dough due
> to the higher than normal AP protien levels.
>
> THat said, I'm lazy, I just keep pouches of either Wal-Mart brand or
> Martha White brand dough mix on hand, and put it together when I need it.
> Tho now that I thursdays off, and friday is our Pizza day, I"ll likely
> move to scratch dough.

<Alan> wrote:

> Well, be a snob if you want to, that's your right.

You might want to check a good dictionary for a definition of 'snob'.
You might be surprised.

> However, a person can make DELICIOUS pizza quickly and
> easily -- in a non-snobby way.

You do not have to get defensive if you do not know the differences
between diffrently prepared foods or are unable to appreciate them. To
anyone who had pizza made by a master pizzaiolo in a good Italian,
especially Neapolitan, pizzeria, the differences to anything else is
immediately apparent. It is akin to comparing foie gras to chopped
liver. Pizza is not, nor has it ever been, a home-made dish. Anything
made at home in the way of pizza is but a pale imitation, however tasty
in itself. In Italy, pasta has always been associated with home and
family; pizza, on the other hand, has always been associated with a
mistress or a lover, something to go out to eat, in more way than one.

Pizza is a very traditional dish, taken very seriously in Italy, and
making it in a non-traditional way renders it not a pizza. Here is how
traditional pizza is supposed to be made - it is all but impossible to
reproduce this at home, lacking a commercial-grade wood-fired oven.
<http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg_eng.pdf>.

Victor

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> <Alan> wrote:
>>
>>> Have a pizza stone in your oven.
>>>
>>> Turn the oven on high before you start assembling the crust
>>> and the ingredients, so that stone is HOT before you put the
>>> pizza on it.
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> You can fill your oven full of stones and rocks and it still won't be
>> anywhere near 485°C (905°F) required to make traditional pizza.
>
>
> We just eat fake pizza. Works for us.

Better still, have a cheese quiche. MUCH tastier and no requirement for
rocks, stones etc <g>
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>

-- in a non-snobby way.
>
> You do not have to get defensive if you do not know the differences
> between diffrently prepared foods or are unable to appreciate them. To
> anyone who had pizza made by a master pizzaiolo in a good Italian,
> especially Neapolitan, pizzeria, the differences to anything else is
> immediately apparent. It is akin to comparing foie gras to chopped
> liver. Pizza is not, nor has it ever been, a home-made dish. Anything
> made at home in the way of pizza is but a pale imitation, however tasty
> in itself. In Italy, pasta has always been associated with home and
> family; pizza, on the other hand, has always been associated with a
> mistress or a lover, something to go out to eat, in more way than one.
>
> Pizza is a very traditional dish, taken very seriously in Italy, and
> making it in a non-traditional way renders it not a pizza. Here is how
> traditional pizza is supposed to be made - it is all but impossible to
> reproduce this at home, lacking a commercial-grade wood-fired oven.
> <http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg_eng.pdf>.
>
> Victor
>

What would you then call a "DiGorno" frozen pizza or maybe a "red baron"
frozen pizza?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Victor Sack wrote:

> > However, a person can make DELICIOUS pizza quickly and
> > easily -- in a non-snobby way.
>
> Pizza is a very traditional dish, taken very seriously in Italy, and
> making it in a non-traditional way renders it not a pizza. Here is how
> traditional pizza is supposed to be made - it is all but impossible to
> reproduce this at home, lacking a commercial-grade wood-fired oven.
> <http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg_eng.pdf>.
>
> Victor

Well, hell, Victor - that's the whole problem: Semantics!

Nobody here ever claimed to make "Pizza Napoletana STG".

That's a great whitepaper and defense of a particular, jealously guarded
style, but it is not the be-all and end-all definition of "pizza"...

Dave

Dave Bell > wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > <http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg_eng.pdf>.
>
> Well, hell, Victor - that's the whole problem: Semantics!
>
> Nobody here ever claimed to make "Pizza Napoletana STG".

Ah, but the name and designation are actually incidental - it is just
the traditional way of making pizza that is being codified in the paper.

> That's a great whitepaper and defense of a particular, jealously guarded
> style, but it is not the be-all and end-all definition of "pizza"...

And I think it is just that. It is the original pizza and everything
else claiming that name has to at least strive to come close, otherwise
calling it a pizza would be ridiculous. Of course, it is semantics - as
everything ultimately is, but calling things by their particular names
facilitates communication. Somewhere the line has to be drawn to make
oneself understood at all. And we did discuss these things "here", i.e.
on rfc, before. People defended the Chicago style deep-dish pizza as
having a right to the name, too, yet not very much makes it similar to
the original pizza. People called it pizza to capitalise on the
familiar name, that is all. Otherwise, the names of some other
flatbreads could be used with the same justification, such as, for
example, those of the Ligurian focaccia, the Romagnola piadina, the
Calabrian pitta, a large crostino, the Turkish lahmaçun and, come to
think of it, the Ethiopian injera. Many, maybe most, so-called pizzas,
home-made and otherwise, have probably more in common with one or more
of these flatbreads than with the original pizza. Or is "pizza"
supposed to replace generic "flatbread"?

On the other hand, there are certainly pizzas made similarly enough to
the original that do deserve the name, the prime example being the New
York style pizza, which, if made traditionally and with traditional
ingredients, is very similar indeed to the original pizza, the main
difference being size - the New York pizza is often rather larger in
diameter.

Victor

Roughrider50 > wrote:

> What would you then call a "DiGorno" frozen pizza or maybe a "red baron"
> frozen pizza?

Never tried them... are they are any better than other frozen "pizzas"?
If not, I'd call 'em a perversion. That said, I do buy frozen "pizzas"
on occasion, I just do not expect them to be similar to real pizzas in
any way.

Victor

"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
. ..
> Roughrider50 > wrote:
>
>> What would you then call a "DiGorno" frozen pizza or maybe a "red baron"
>> frozen pizza?
>
> Never tried them... are they are any better than other frozen "pizzas"?
> If not, I'd call 'em a perversion. That said, I do buy frozen "pizzas"
> on occasion, I just do not expect them to be similar to real pizzas in
> any way.
>
> Victor
I've heard of them being called a lot of things, but "perversion" is a new
one. Actually DiGorno isn't too bad for a frozen pizza. Its the only kind I
buy. Outside of costing a little more than the other frozen pizzas their
pretty close to what we get at pizza parlors here in town.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:49:03 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:

>Pizza is a very traditional dish, taken very seriously in Italy, and
>making it in a non-traditional way renders it not a pizza. Here is how
>traditional pizza is supposed to be made - it is all but impossible to
>reproduce this at home, lacking a commercial-grade wood-fired oven.
><http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg_eng.pdf>.

No, it renders it not an official Neapolitan pizza. Period. It's just another EU
protected name and concept, like AOCs.

"The "Associazone Verace Pizza Napoletana" ("True Neapolitan Pizza
Association"), which was founded in 1984 and only recognises the Marinara and
Margherita, has set the very specific rules that must be followed for an
authentic Neapolitan pizza. These include that the pizza must be baked in a
wood-fired, domed oven at 485C for no more than 60 to 90 seconds; that the base
must be hand-kneaded and must not be rolled with a pin or prepared by any
mechanical means and that the pizza must not exceed 35 cm in diameter or be more
than a third of a cm thick at the centre."

Just as following all the rules but making it 36 cm. diameter would render it
not a Neapolitan pizza. No more, no less.

Or making other than a marinara or margherita pizza.

And we all know how *every* artisan in Europe is 100% behind all the new EU
regs, eh?

BTW, there's an awful lot of crap pizza in Naples these days. I'd say NYC is
more consistent, so long as you ignore any Chicago or deep-dish wanna-bes.

-- Larry

On Dec 16 2006, 10:39 am, "Pandora" > wrote:
> "John" > ha scritto nel messaggionews:458414d7$0$7063$4c368faf@roadrunner. com...
>
> > First, here are the results (broadband/DSL recommended):
>
> >http://i10.tinypic.com/2eklx6f.jpg
>
> Gnam Gnam! It seems very good!
>
> thank you for this pic!
>
> --
> Merry Christmas
> Pandora
> --------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> > The pizza peel is also homemade. I made it from scrap wood and coated in
> > shellac. I have it for about 10 years.
>
> > Dough for a 13"-15" pizza
>
> > 3/4 cups of water.
> > 1/2 tsp yeast
> > 1/2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
> > about 2 cups of KA white flour.
>
> > Add yeast and sugar to warm water to dissolve.
>
> > I use a cuisinart to knead the dough. The dough should be just slightly
> > sticky.
>
> > Let dough rise is a slightly oily pot for about and hour or two.
>
> > Preheat oven to 550 degrees with pizza stone in oven.
>
> > I use Tuttorosso crushed tomatoes with basil for the pizza sauce. I found
> > it a lot less expensive (about $1 per 28oz can) and much better tasting
> > than commerical "pizza" sauce.
>
> > I use Sargento mozzarella & provolone. Every now and then my supermarket
> > has them on sale for half price so I stock on them.
>
> > I roll the dough on a lightly dusted pizza peel. I measure the dough out
> > for my pizza stone; a 14" stone bought from Bed & Bath for $15. I wish I
> > still had my commercial oven where I used to make 20" pizzas.
>
> > Add a little oregano and or garlic powder to the top of the cheese.
>
> > Slide the pizza onto heated stone in oven.
>
> > Carefully watch the pizza. It can go from delicious to burned in a few
> > minutes. When the bottom the crust is slightly brown, I remove the pizza.
>
> > My pizza costs me about $2 to $3 and we greatly prefer it to the local
> > salty greasy "pizza". If we were in NYC, then that would be another
> > matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

damn that looks good!

damn that looks good!

pltrgyst > wrote:

> No, it renders it not an official Neapolitan pizza. Period. It's just
> another EU protected name and concept, like AOCs.

Did you read my reply to Dave Bell? I seem to have managed to reply to
every argument of yours in advance, too.

> BTW, there's an awful lot of crap pizza in Naples these days. I'd say NYC is
> more consistent, so long as you ignore any Chicago or deep-dish wanna-bes.

Ah, but we are arguing about what is and what isn't pizza, not about its
quality in various locations.

Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
*you* draw the line and why?

Victor

Roughrider50 > wrote:

> Actually DiGorno isn't too bad for a frozen pizza. Its the only kind I
> buy. Outside of costing a little more than the other frozen pizzas their
> pretty close to what we get at pizza parlors here in town.

They are not available here in Germany.

Victor

<Alan> wrote:

> Second, I've had many delicious pizzas make in home
> kitchens, and in other places that prepare them in ways
> which aren't perfectly traditional, but which are delicious,
> well-made, wonderful food!

What makes them pizzas and not some other kind of flatbread (assuming
they are flat, that is)?

Victor

"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
.. .
> Roughrider50 > wrote:
>
>> Actually DiGorno isn't too bad for a frozen pizza. Its the only kind I
>> buy. Outside of costing a little more than the other frozen pizzas their
>> pretty close to what we get at pizza parlors here in town.
>
> They are not available here in Germany.
>
> Victor
I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe. Those little
shish-ka-bob things make my mouth water just thinking about it. I won't even
mention all the breads & rolls I consumed....mmmm. No Victor you aren't
missing anything )

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:29:58 GMT, "Roughrider50" > wrote:

>I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
>street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
>to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
>world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe....

I think all those things have improved with age (yours -- and mine). 8

And besides, the best ochsenschwanzsuppe was clearly at der Roter Ochsen in
Heidelberg.

I also remember pop-top bottles of wonderful fresh beer (Weldebrau) magically
appearing on my doorstep every morning.

But I sure don't remember good pizza in Germany. France, yes; Holland, yes;
Italy, yes; but not Germany.

-- Larry (owned the Army's Berlin trains in the '60s, and spent a lot of time
there...)

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:48:52 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:

>Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
>*you* draw the line and why?

I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce, mozzarella
or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a variety of other
toppings, then I call it pizza.

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is mentally
ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the crust,
I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in serving
pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go figure.

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" > wrote

> I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
> mentally
> ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the
> crust,
> I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

(note to self: pay attention to Larry, he is a wise man)

nancy

pltrgyst wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:48:52 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
>> *you* draw the line and why?
>
> I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce, mozzarella
> or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a variety of other
> toppings, then I call it pizza.
>
> I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is mentally
> ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the crust,
> I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

For sure, a quality pizza is determined by a good crust with just a
minimalist topping for flavor.


>
> But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in serving
> pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go figure.
>
> -- Larry

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:05:07 -0500, "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>
>"pltrgyst" > wrote
>
>> I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
>> mentally
>> ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the
>> crust,
>> I'll have stromboli or lasagna.
>
>(note to self: pay attention to Larry, he is a wise man)
>
>nancy

Geez, my wife's name is Nancy (as was my ex-wife's), and neither of them ever
said that...not even on Valentine's Day.

-- Larry

Roughrider50 > wrote:

> I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
> street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
> to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
> world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe. Those little
> shish-ka-bob things make my mouth water just thinking about it. I won't even
> mention all the breads & rolls I consumed....mmmm. No Victor you aren't
> missing anything )

I like that kind of food, too! As to beer, in Berlin you probably
missed the even better one than you liked - Düsseldorfer Altbier. :-)

BTW, I've just tried some Sauerteigbrot (sourdough bread) produced by
Brot & Butter, a food part of Manufactum, a small kitchen store chain
with a very "yuppy" image. In spite of the image, the bread is very
good indeed, of the heavy, dense, crusty type, made with a mix of rye
and wheat.

On the other hand, real pizza is hard to come by here. :-(

Victor