I have been making bread 2-3 times a week for about a month, and no matter
how long I knead the dough (tried for 30 minutes last night) it never
becomes smooth and silky. It did not bother me until just recently because
the dough DOES become smooth and silky after the first rise when it gets
punched down. But I was making noodles (or trying to) and the directions
said to knead the heck out of the dough. It said to knead it until it is
smooth and silky, and then 10 minutes more. I used all purpose flour for
this, and it did become smooth. Bread flour has more gluten so it should
come together better than AP flour, right?

Any ideas on how to go from lumpy and torn to smooth and silky?

Thanks!
Paul

On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:12:46 -0700, "Paul"
> wrote:

>I have been making bread 2-3 times a week for about a month, and no matter
>how long I knead the dough (tried for 30 minutes last night) it never
>becomes smooth and silky. It did not bother me until just recently because
>the dough DOES become smooth and silky after the first rise when it gets
>punched down. But I was making noodles (or trying to) and the directions
>said to knead the heck out of the dough. It said to knead it until it is
>smooth and silky, and then 10 minutes more. I used all purpose flour for
>this, and it did become smooth. Bread flour has more gluten so it should
>come together better than AP flour, right?
>
>Any ideas on how to go from lumpy and torn to smooth and silky?
>
>Thanks!
>Paul

Hi Paul,

The thing that you are leaving out of the equation is
time...

I would suggest that you try this:

Mix up some dough, but mix it only to the point that you are
certain that you have left no pockets of dry flour.

Then, put the dough in the refrigerator for a few hours.

Finally, take it out and knead it.

Also, you mention bread flour by saying:

"Bread flour has more gluten so it should
come together better than AP flour, right?"

but the answer is "No."

Higher gluten flours (often called "bread flour") is slower
to fully hydrate, and also needs more water to bring it to a
particular texture.

Because it hydrates more slowly than would lower protein
flour, it will take longer to form a smooth dough.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:12:46 -0700, "Paul"
> > wrote:
>
>>I have been making bread 2-3 times a week for about a month, and no matter
>>how long I knead the dough (tried for 30 minutes last night) it never
>>becomes smooth and silky. It did not bother me until just recently
>>because
>>the dough DOES become smooth and silky after the first rise when it gets
>>punched down. But I was making noodles (or trying to) and the directions
>>said to knead the heck out of the dough. It said to knead it until it is
>>smooth and silky, and then 10 minutes more. I used all purpose flour for
>>this, and it did become smooth. Bread flour has more gluten so it should
>>come together better than AP flour, right?
>>
>>Any ideas on how to go from lumpy and torn to smooth and silky?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Paul
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The thing that you are leaving out of the equation is
> time...
>
> I would suggest that you try this:
>
> Mix up some dough, but mix it only to the point that you are
> certain that you have left no pockets of dry flour.
>
> Then, put the dough in the refrigerator for a few hours.
>
> Finally, take it out and knead it.
>
> Also, you mention bread flour by saying:
>
> "Bread flour has more gluten so it should
> come together better than AP flour, right?"
>
> but the answer is "No."
>
> Higher gluten flours (often called "bread flour") is slower
> to fully hydrate, and also needs more water to bring it to a
> particular texture.
>
> Because it hydrates more slowly than would lower protein
> flour, it will take longer to form a smooth dough.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

I have no doubt that this would work because the dough does get smooth after
rising for an hour. Is this a quirk of my enviroment, flour or recipe; or
should I be doing this every time I make any bread? If it is a moisture
absorbtion issue, could it be that it is because I live in an extremely dry
area (phoenix)?

Thanks!

Paul

On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:55:41 -0700, "Paul"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:12:46 -0700, "Paul"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I have been making bread 2-3 times a week for about a month, and no matter
>>>how long I knead the dough (tried for 30 minutes last night) it never
>>>becomes smooth and silky. It did not bother me until just recently
>>>because
>>>the dough DOES become smooth and silky after the first rise when it gets
>>>punched down. But I was making noodles (or trying to) and the directions
>>>said to knead the heck out of the dough. It said to knead it until it is
>>>smooth and silky, and then 10 minutes more. I used all purpose flour for
>>>this, and it did become smooth. Bread flour has more gluten so it should
>>>come together better than AP flour, right?
>>>
>>>Any ideas on how to go from lumpy and torn to smooth and silky?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>Paul
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> The thing that you are leaving out of the equation is
>> time...
>>
>> I would suggest that you try this:
>>
>> Mix up some dough, but mix it only to the point that you are
>> certain that you have left no pockets of dry flour.
>>
>> Then, put the dough in the refrigerator for a few hours.
>>
>> Finally, take it out and knead it.
>>
>> Also, you mention bread flour by saying:
>>
>> "Bread flour has more gluten so it should
>> come together better than AP flour, right?"
>>
>> but the answer is "No."
>>
>> Higher gluten flours (often called "bread flour") is slower
>> to fully hydrate, and also needs more water to bring it to a
>> particular texture.
>>
>> Because it hydrates more slowly than would lower protein
>> flour, it will take longer to form a smooth dough.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>I have no doubt that this would work because the dough does get smooth after
>rising for an hour. Is this a quirk of my enviroment, flour or recipe; or
>should I be doing this every time I make any bread? If it is a moisture
>absorbtion issue, could it be that it is because I live in an extremely dry
>area (phoenix)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Paul

Hi Paul,

I don't know with certainty, but it would seem possible that
your flour, stored in such a dry environment, takes longer
to fully hydrate than it might in a more humid area.

But, whatever the cause, you are likely to get better
results by just slowing it all down.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."