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Recipe for meat pie crust?
I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's quite
common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies you often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's also a little thinner (you can roll it out more because with the eggs, it's not so fragile). One of its big advantages is that it doesn't get terribly soggy on the bottom when laden down under piles of meat and gravy. When baked the top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen to it (it's shiny, not flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe for this? -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
Alex Rast wrote:
>I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's qui= te=20 >common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the recipe, but it= 'd=20 >be nice to get something more definite. > Standard pate dough is used for bridies or meat pies. Need to be started hot 375-400F to set the dough, then reduced after=20 10-15 minutes to cook the filling. Pate Dough 2, if made properly, can be flakey, but needs to be brushed=20 with eggwhite inside, before filling, otherwise it will leak jui =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Titelliste (3 Rezepte) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pate Dough Pate Dough 1 Pate Dough 2ces and become soggy. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f Titel: Pate Dough Kategorien: Appetizers, Doughs, Bakery Menge: 1 Rezept 1 1/8 kg Bread Flour 360 Gramm Butter 8 Egg Yolks 360 Gramm Ice Water 1 teasp. Salt 1 teasp. Sugar 120 Gramm Lard =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D HWK, CMC Combine butter, Lard and Yolks. Add Water and dissolved Sugar, Salt. Add Flour and just lock in. Don't overwork. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f Titel: Pate Dough 1 Kategorien: Bakery, Doughs, USA Menge: 1 Rezept 1 1/8 kg Bread Flour 360 Gramm Butter 8 Egg-Yolks 120 Gramm Oil 1 tablesp. Sugar 1 teasp. Salt 360 Gramm Ice Water =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hartmut W. Kuntze,CMC Mix all Ingredient well. Add Water last. Needs more mixing than Pie Dough. Chill before use. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f Titel: Pate Dough 2 Kategorien: Bakery, Doughs, Pates, USA Menge: 1 Rezept 5 cups Flour 450 Gramm Butter 5 Egg-Yolks 1 tablesp. Sugar 1 teasp. Salt Icewater as needed =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hartmut W. Kuntze,CMC Frisage. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=20 Sincerly, C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_) http://www.cmcchef.com , chef<AT>cmcchef.com "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened" _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20 |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
"Alex Rast" > wrote in message ... > I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's quite > common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the recipe, but it'd > be nice to get something more definite. > > Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies you > often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made > somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's also a little > thinner (you can roll it out more because with the eggs, it's not so > fragile). One of its big advantages is that it doesn't get terribly soggy > on the bottom when laden down under piles of meat and gravy. When baked the > top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen to it (it's shiny, not > flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe for this? > -- > Alex Rast > > (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with beef suet for steak and kidney pies. Graham |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:02:33 GMT in <tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no>,
(Graham) wrote : > >"Alex Rast" > wrote in message .. . >> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. ... >> The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made >> somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. > ... >Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with beef >suet for steak and kidney pies. Is this a cookbook? A Web site? An old post? If it's some sort of printed material, can you please post a recipe? The likelihood of a local bookstore having such a title, if it is a book or other printed source, is remote, and I don't have the time to order one. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
Alex Rast wrote:
>Thanks, but I was looking for recipes that use whole eggs, not just yolk= s.=20 >The crusts I'm thinking of definitely need the egg whites for strength a= nd=20 >structure. > The strength/structure in a pate dough comes from flour/water, not=20 eggwhites. As a matter of fact, the dough needs to be a little stronger than a=20 flaky 1-2-3 pie-dough, but that is accomplished with the water, not=20 eggwhite. >Do you have any recipes like this? > No. --=20 Sincerly, C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_) http://www.cmcchef.com , chef<AT>cmcchef.com "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened" _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20 |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
"Alex Rast" > wrote in message ... > at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:02:33 GMT in <tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no>, > (Graham) wrote : > > > > >"Alex Rast" > wrote in message > .. . > >> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. ... > >> The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made > >> somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. > > ... > >Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with beef > >suet for steak and kidney pies. > > Is this a cookbook? A Web site? An old post? If it's some sort of printed > material, can you please post a recipe? The likelihood of a local bookstore > having such a title, if it is a book or other printed source, is remote, > and I don't have the time to order one. > > -- Sorry. I thought that, from your post you were a Brit and would know automatically that I was referring to Delia Smith who is as well-known in the UK as Julia Child is in the US. Here is her recipe for the pastry for small, steak, kidney and mushroom pies. Since her recipes never fail, the lack of an egg shouldn't bother you but you could replace some of the water with an egg yolk without too much worry I would have thought. 350g All purpose flour (2.5 cups) pinch salt 75g lard at room temperature (6tbsp) 75g butter at room temperature (6tbsp) about 1.5 tbsp cold water Use standard procedure for pastry i.e., work the fats into the flour & salt until mixture is like fine bread crumbs. Add the water and mix till the dough comes together, knead briefly 'til smooth and refrigerate for about 30min. Use a food processor if you have one. They make short work of pastry making. From "How to cook" Delia Smith HTH Graham |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:37:55 GMT in
>, (H. W. Hans Kuntze) wrote : >Alex Rast wrote: > >>Thanks, but I was looking for recipes that use whole eggs, not just >>yolks. The crusts I'm thinking of definitely need the egg whites for >>strength and structure. >> >The strength/structure in a pate dough comes from flour/water, not >eggwhites. >As a matter of fact, the dough needs to be a little stronger than a >flaky 1-2-3 pie-dough, but that is accomplished with the water, not >eggwhite. My results using extra water have never turned out well. The pastry turns out tough. Then again, I've never used egg yolks only as an addition. This could prevent toughness, I'll concede. It's not always accurate to guess, but it looks like your crust recipes, however, would have more of a crumbly consistency - not that they'd necessarily be fragile, but that the texture would lean towards a bread or cookie once baked, more than, for instance, towards a fillo or lasagna. I'm using vague descriptions, I realize, but hopefully you get the general idea. It looks also that they're designed for crusts that lean towards the thick side rather more than the thin side. As I've seen it, there are 2 basic types of meat pie: those with a thick and almost bready crust, and those with a thin and more pastalike crust. It's the latter type of crust that's closer to the kind I'm looking for. Is that what your recipes are for, or are they designed more around the former type? -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
Alex Rast wrote:
> [...] > > >It's not always accurate to guess, but it looks like your crust recipes,= =20 >however, would have more of a crumbly consistency > If a pate en croute would be crumbly, who would be able to slice it? If it was poor in texture, tough, who would want to eat it? >[...]Is that what your recipes are=20 >for, or are they designed more around the former type? > I have produced pate en croute for commercial sale (for sale to=20 foodservice, etc.), but I don't understand your description, although,=20 compared to Europa, the quality of pates sold and offered in this=20 country is generally very poor. Why pay attention to something, people=20 won't know or eat, don't have a frame of reference. Generally, a pate dough should be like a pie dough, flakey, but never=20 crumbly. But not too flaky, because it would leak, ruining the product. And that depends greatly on technique in dough make-up, much more than=20 ingredients. Sure, there is a lot of trash on the market that is more like meatloaf=20 baked in a noodle dough, but that's no pate en croute, even by a long sho= t. http://www.cmcchef.com/pates.html --=20 Sincerly, C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_) http://www.cmcchef.com , chef<AT>cmcchef.com "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened" _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20 |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
(Alex Rast) wrote in
: > I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's > quite common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the > recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. > > Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies you > often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but made > somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's also a > little thinner (you can roll it out more because with the eggs, it's > not so fragile). One of its big advantages is that it doesn't get > terribly soggy on the bottom when laden down under piles of meat and > gravy. When baked the top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen > to it (it's shiny, not flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe > for this? Alex, I direct you to the following two sites for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie descriptions and a recipe. I feel certain that this is the type of crust you are looking for. It is known as a "raised" crust, not because it uses yeast, but because of the technique of constructing it. I bake a Melton Mowbray Pork Pie every Christmas and it's become a tradition in our house. I hope this is what you're after... http://www.outlawcook.com/Page0120.html http://www.hwatson.force9.co.uk/cook...nmowbraypie.ht m Wayne |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
"Graham" > wrote in
news:tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no: > > "Alex Rast" > wrote in message > ... >> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's >> quite common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the >> recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. >> >> Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies >> you often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but >> made somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's >> also a little thinner (you can roll it out more because with the >> eggs, it's not so fragile). One of its big advantages is that it >> doesn't get terribly soggy on the bottom when laden down under piles >> of meat and gravy. When baked > the >> top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen to it (it's shiny, not >> flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe for this? >> -- >> Alex Rast >> >> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) > > Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with > beef suet for steak and kidney pies. > Graham > > Graham, From Alex's description, my impression is that a raised pastry like that used for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie is what he's looking for. Of course, I could be wrong, but when I began making substantial meat pies, this was the pastry of choice after much experimentation. Delia's pastry is wonderful, too, but I think more sited for smaller and/or thinner pies. Cheers, Wayne |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message . .. > "Graham" > wrote in > news:tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no: > > > > > "Alex Rast" > wrote in message > > ... > >> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's > >> quite common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the > >> recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. > >> > >> Anyway, it's for the kind of big (9" or 10"), round-dish meat pies > >> you often find. The crust is something like a flaky pie crust, but > >> made somewhat sturdier with the addition of eggs. Typically, it's > >> also a little thinner (you can roll it out more because with the > >> eggs, it's not so fragile). One of its big advantages is that it > >> doesn't get terribly soggy on the bottom when laden down under piles > >> of meat and gravy. When baked > > the > >> top has a *very* attractive golden-brown sheen to it (it's shiny, not > >> flat). Can someone give me a reliable recipe for this? > >> -- > >> Alex Rast > >> > >> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) > > > > Look in the gospel of St. Delia. She has a superb pastry made with > > beef suet for steak and kidney pies. > > Graham > > > > > > Graham, > > From Alex's description, my impression is that a raised pastry like that > used for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie is what he's looking for. Of course, I > could be wrong, but when I began making substantial meat pies, this was > the pastry of choice after much experimentation. Delia's pastry is > wonderful, too, but I think more sited for smaller and/or thinner pies. > > Cheers, > Wayne Agreed! from his further descriptions above, it is obviously the hot water, raised pie crust. Regards Graham |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
Alex Rast wrote:
> Is this a cookbook? A Web site? An old post? If it's some sort of printed > material, can you please post a recipe? The likelihood of a local bookstore > having such a title, if it is a book or other printed source, is remote, > and I don't have the time to order one. http://www.deliaonline.com/ -- Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:55:43 GMT in <Xns9446DF115C7B7wayneboatwright@
204.127.36.1>, (Wayne Boatwright) wrote : >"Graham" > wrote in >news:tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no: > >> >> "Alex Rast" > wrote in message >> ... >>> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. It's >>> quite common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at the >>> recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. > >From Alex's description, my impression is that a raised pastry like that >used for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie is what he's looking for. Definitely not. I'm a big fan of Pork Pies, (unlike my sister who always used to slip me her pie at lunchtime during school when our mother packed them - a great treat for me, my sister's worst nightmare) but this is exactly the kind of crust that I'm specifically *not* looking for. My problem, indeed, is that I can think of no "hook" - no keyword that would enable me to find one on-line easily and quickly. With Melton Mowbray Pork Pie, it's like falling off a log to find the recipes because you've got such distinctive keywords to "hook" off. The crust I have in mind also isn't the typical crust for Steak and Kidney pie. Rather, it's a kind you find on many of the other meat pies, the ones that don't have a distinctive signature "name" attached to them. My suspicion is that the recipe for this type of crust is so "standard" that everybody takes it as a given - the kind of thing that no one bothers writing the recipe for because they assume everybody knows how to make it - that would show up in a recipe as "pastry for a 2-crust meat pie" or some other such generic. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:32:45 GMT in
>, (H. W. Hans Kuntze) wrote : >Alex Rast wrote: > >> [...] >> >> >>It's not always accurate to guess, but it looks like your crust >>recipes, however, would have more of a crumbly consistency >> >If a pate en croute would be crumbly, who would be able to slice it? >If it was poor in texture, tough, who would want to eat it? Agreed. My descriptions were distinctly *relative*, not meaning to indicate that the consistency would be crumbly in an absolute sense, rather that it would have a shade more crumbliness, relative to what I would consider ideal. For instance, a standard "flaky pastry" crust, e.g. for a fruit pie, is considerably more "crumbly" than a puff pastry. It's not crumbly in an absolute sense, but only in a very, very relative sense. I'm trying to make a subtle distinction. > >>[...]Is that what your recipes are >>for, or are they designed more around the former type? >> >I have produced pate en croute for commercial sale (for sale to >foodservice, etc.), Yes, now that I have your term, I am certain that what you have is in the "crumbly" category, relative to what I'm looking for. I know what the texture of pate en croute is supposed to be like and it's not what I'm looking for. It's important also, I think, to stress that my filling will not be a tightly-packed, solid filling e.g. like Melton Mowbray Pork Pie. It's going to be somewhat loose, so that if you removed the crust entirely, it would become a heap (if a somewhat firm heap) on a plate rather than staying as a nice, well-formed solid. Unfortunately, it would seem as though the way I described things led everybody to believe that my filling would end up as a solid mass, which was exactly the thing I was trying to make sure people *didn't* think it was going to be. Where did I go wrong in my description that led people to this impression? -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
>Reg
>Date: 12/4/2003 1:53 AM Central Standard Time >Message-id: m> > >Alex Rast wrote: > >> Is this a cookbook? A Web site? An old post? If it's some sort of printed >> material, can you please post a recipe? The likelihood of a local bookstore > >> having such a title, if it is a book or other printed source, is remote, >> and I don't have the time to order one. > >http://www.deliaonline.com/ > >-- >Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com > This Delia, whoever she is, seems to be the type who'd take credit for reinventing the wheel. Anyway, meat pies can use standard or special crusts as you wish. Below are links to recipes either way: The Worldwide Gourmet presents the Meat Pie http://www.theworldwidegourmet.com/m.../tourtiere.htm Cooks.com | Recipe | ALSATIAN MEAT PIE http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,181,1...229203,00.html |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
Static I wrote:
> This Delia, whoever she is, seems to be the type who'd take credit for > reinventing the wheel. Isn't that how they become celebrity chefs? :) -- Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
(Alex Rast) wrote in
: > at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:55:43 GMT in <Xns9446DF115C7B7wayneboatwright@ > 204.127.36.1>, (Wayne Boatwright) > wrote : > >>"Graham" > wrote in >>news:tQuzb.552170$pl3.378384@pd7tw3no: >> >>> >>> "Alex Rast" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> I'm looking for a recipe for a specific type of meat pie crust. >>>> It's quite common in Britain, and I can probably make a guess at >>>> the recipe, but it'd be nice to get something more definite. >> >>From Alex's description, my impression is that a raised pastry like >>that used for Melton Mowbray Pork Pie is what he's looking for. > > Definitely not. I'm a big fan of Pork Pies, (unlike my sister who > always used to slip me her pie at lunchtime during school when our > mother packed them - a great treat for me, my sister's worst > nightmare) but this is exactly the kind of crust that I'm specifically > *not* looking for. My problem, indeed, is that I can think of no > "hook" - no keyword that would enable me to find one on-line easily > and quickly. With Melton Mowbray Pork Pie, it's like falling off a log > to find the recipes because you've got such distinctive keywords to > "hook" off. > > The crust I have in mind also isn't the typical crust for Steak and > Kidney pie. Rather, it's a kind you find on many of the other meat > pies, the ones that don't have a distinctive signature "name" attached > to them. My suspicion is that the recipe for this type of crust is so > "standard" that everybody takes it as a given - the kind of thing that > no one bothers writing the recipe for because they assume everybody > knows how to make it - that would show up in a recipe as "pastry for a > 2-crust meat pie" or some other such generic. > Sorry, Alex. Just my thought. I don't know of another. Wayne |
Recipe for meat pie crust?
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