I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?

Fred
The Good Gourmet
http://www.thegoodgourmet.com

On 17 Jan 2004 at 2:35, Fred wrote:

> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had
> a chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you
> do it at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is
> there some good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home
> kitchen?

There are lots of ways.... you can cover the bread with oil (a thin film),
saran wrap, or a wet towel and put the bread in a warm place. The big
goals are to keep the bread from drying out, and then keep it warm.

A good place is in an oven with a pilot light or the oven lamp on.
Check your temps though, the oven can get too warm.

Some people use sweater boxes as the seal well. Others use
styrofoam coolers with some hot water in them.... lots of choices
here....

Mike
--
Mike Avery

ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
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"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?

I don't find that I need a proofer unless I want to speed up the process.
You get better bread with a slow rise in a cool place. You can rig a
proofing box in a number of ways. 1) put a 11x14 pan of hot water in your
oven, place the dough in a bowl, and close the door. 2) bring a 4 cup
measure of water to a boil in your microwave, put the dough in a bowl, place
in the oven, close the door. 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on a
tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it. 4) put a jug of hot
water in a picnic cooler with the dough and cover.

You get the idea. You just need a way to trap warm, moist air. Many newer
ovens have a "proof" setting. That turns the convection oven on at a
temperature of 100F. They usually recommend that you add a pan of boiling
water for moisture.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do
it
> > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
some
> > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> I don't find that I need a proofer unless I want to speed up the process.
> You get better bread with a slow rise in a cool place. You can rig a
> proofing box in a number of ways. 1) put a 11x14 pan of hot water in your
> oven, place the dough in a bowl, and close the door. 2) bring a 4 cup
> measure of water to a boil in your microwave, put the dough in a bowl,
place
> in the oven, close the door. 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on
a
> tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it. 4) put a jug of hot
> water in a picnic cooler with the dough and cover.
>
> You get the idea. You just need a way to trap warm, moist air. Many
newer
> ovens have a "proof" setting. That turns the convection oven on at a
> temperature of 100F. They usually recommend that you add a pan of boiling
> water for moisture.
>
>
<snip>
3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on a
tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it.

I have a large plastic storage bin to cover my dough to raise. I'm not sure
what you mean by putting the dough with a pan of hot water on a tray .." I
can't visualize this, can you be a little more specific for me?

thanks
Dee

"Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
...
>
> "Vox Humana" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Fred" > wrote in message
> > . net...
> > > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had
a
> > > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you
do
> it
> > > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
> some
> > > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
> >
> > I don't find that I need a proofer unless I want to speed up the
process.
> > You get better bread with a slow rise in a cool place. You can rig a
> > proofing box in a number of ways. 1) put a 11x14 pan of hot water in
your
> > oven, place the dough in a bowl, and close the door. 2) bring a 4 cup
> > measure of water to a boil in your microwave, put the dough in a bowl,
> place
> > in the oven, close the door. 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water
on
> a
> > tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it. 4) put a jug of
hot
> > water in a picnic cooler with the dough and cover.
> >
> > You get the idea. You just need a way to trap warm, moist air. Many
> newer
> > ovens have a "proof" setting. That turns the convection oven on at a
> > temperature of 100F. They usually recommend that you add a pan of
boiling
> > water for moisture.
> >
> >
> <snip>
> 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on a
> tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it.
>
> I have a large plastic storage bin to cover my dough to raise. I'm not
sure
> what you mean by putting the dough with a pan of hot water on a tray .." I
> can't visualize this, can you be a little more specific for me?
>
> thanks
> Dee
>

OK, by jove, I think I've got it. I knew there was a solution there for me
as I have a large plastic bread cover-er.
1) Onto a baking tray, set your container of dough; and beside it on the
tray, set your container of hot water.
2) Cover the tray with a plastic-bread-cover which covers the whole tray
and sits flush on the table so the heat/moisture will not escape.

Thanks,
Dee


>

"Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Vox Humana" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Fred" > wrote in message
> > > . net...
> > > > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I
had
> a
> > > > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you
> do
> > it
> > > > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
> > some
> > > > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
> > >
> > > I don't find that I need a proofer unless I want to speed up the
> process.
> > > You get better bread with a slow rise in a cool place. You can rig a
> > > proofing box in a number of ways. 1) put a 11x14 pan of hot water in
> your
> > > oven, place the dough in a bowl, and close the door. 2) bring a 4 cup
> > > measure of water to a boil in your microwave, put the dough in a bowl,
> > place
> > > in the oven, close the door. 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water
> on
> > a
> > > tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it. 4) put a jug of
> hot
> > > water in a picnic cooler with the dough and cover.
> > >
> > > You get the idea. You just need a way to trap warm, moist air. Many
> > newer
> > > ovens have a "proof" setting. That turns the convection oven on at a
> > > temperature of 100F. They usually recommend that you add a pan of
> boiling
> > > water for moisture.
> > >
> > >
> > <snip>
> > 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on a
> > tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it.
> >
> > I have a large plastic storage bin to cover my dough to raise. I'm not
> sure
> > what you mean by putting the dough with a pan of hot water on a tray .."
I
> > can't visualize this, can you be a little more specific for me?
> >
> > thanks
> > Dee
> >
>
> OK, by jove, I think I've got it. I knew there was a solution there for
me
> as I have a large plastic bread cover-er.
> 1) Onto a baking tray, set your container of dough; and beside it on the
> tray, set your container of hot water.
> 2) Cover the tray with a plastic-bread-cover which covers the whole tray
> and sits flush on the table so the heat/moisture will not escape.
>
> Thanks,
> Dee

Exactly!

Do you know which ovens go low enough to proof? I'm guessing the gas
oven won't temp that low. Will the Dacor?
Thanks
Kent

Vox Humana wrote:
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> I don't find that I need a proofer unless I want to speed up the process.
> You get better bread with a slow rise in a cool place. You can rig a
> proofing box in a number of ways. 1) put a 11x14 pan of hot water in your
> oven, place the dough in a bowl, and close the door. 2) bring a 4 cup
> measure of water to a boil in your microwave, put the dough in a bowl, place
> in the oven, close the door. 3) Put the dough with a pan of hot water on a
> tray and invert a large plastic storage bin over it. 4) put a jug of hot
> water in a picnic cooler with the dough and cover.
>
> You get the idea. You just need a way to trap warm, moist air. Many newer
> ovens have a "proof" setting. That turns the convection oven on at a
> temperature of 100F. They usually recommend that you add a pan of boiling
> water for moisture.

"Kent H." > wrote in message
...
> Do you know which ovens go low enough to proof? I'm guessing the gas
> oven won't temp that low. Will the Dacor?
> Thanks
> Kent

My JennAir starts at 100F. My mother's KitchenAid oven has a special proof
setting (as do the newer JennAirs among others) that is programmed at 100F.
My new Sharp Convection/Microwave also has a 100F setting that they
recommend for proofing. I would imagine that most newer ovens with
electronic controls can be set at 100F. You can get product information for
Dacor at their website.

100F is too warm. Yeast likes it at around 80F. Too cold, no rise, too hot
and the some yeast cells die off. What I do is turn my oven on to 200F, for
1 minute, and then turn it off. I have a thermapen that i use to check the
dough temperature, and that's worked for me. My first rise is 2 hours, and
the dough stays close to 80F.

My second rise is 45 minutes, and that's on the counter. I get the bottom
from a plastic storage box (shallow, but large and rectangular), invert it
over the baguettes. Then I take a measuring cup full of boiling water, and
stick it in there. The moisture and heat help the dough rise. The rolls are
laying in a piece of muslin that's been floured and waved to make little
rising beds. I still cover the rolls with plastic wrap though.

A method I learned from _The Best Bread Ever_, is to measure the temperature
of your flour. Take 145F - flour temp = water temp. After mixing in the food
processor, you'll be spot on your target temp (at least in mine). Check your
process and adjust as necessary.

Buy instant yeast instead of active yeast to bypass "activating" your yeast
in warm water. Just mix it with your dry ingredients. Instant yeast contains
very few dead yeasts, unlike active yeast, so you need less of it. I don't
have the conversion factor between the two types with me, but I could look
it up. You can use either in any recipe with the right conversion. Cook's
Illustrated had an article on it. BTW, I got a large brick of instant yeast
at a restaurant supply store for a lot less than those jars in the chain
stores (safeway, albertsons, etc). Must be about 5 or six jars worth. I
filled up a couple of jars, vacuum sealed and refrigerated the rest.

Check out this link:
http://www.gardenguides.com/recipes/...tbreadever.htm


Happy baking.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent H." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do you know which ovens go low enough to proof? I'm guessing the gas
> > oven won't temp that low. Will the Dacor?
> > Thanks
> > Kent
>
> My JennAir starts at 100F. My mother's KitchenAid oven has a special
proof
> setting (as do the newer JennAirs among others) that is programmed at
100F.
> My new Sharp Convection/Microwave also has a 100F setting that they
> recommend for proofing. I would imagine that most newer ovens with
> electronic controls can be set at 100F. You can get product information
for
> Dacor at their website.
>
>

When I am forming my bread into loaves or rolls, I turn my oven (gas) till
it just comes on. Turn it off and turn the light on. Put my formed dough
in the oven covered by a towel till risen.

--
Helen

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith that
saves is faith in Him

<>< ><>
www.peagramfamily.com
http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/

http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/..._WATCHERS.html

http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/RECIPES.html



225/190/145





"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> Fred
> The Good Gourmet
> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>
>

"LIMEYNO1" > wrote in message
...
> When I am forming my bread into loaves or rolls, I turn my oven (gas) till
> it just comes on. Turn it off and turn the light on. Put my formed dough
> in the oven covered by a towel till risen.
>
> --
> Helen

Helen, do you have two ovens? I usually put my stone in to heat up 45
minutes before baking. Do you use this procedure on your second rise as
well?

Thanks,
Dee
>
>
>
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do
it
> > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
some
> > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
> >
> > Fred
> > The Good Gourmet
> > http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
> >
> >
>
>

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:35:55 +0000, Fred wrote:

> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do
> it at home?

I proof my dough by putting the dough in a lightly oiled bowl, cover it
with saran wrap, and put the bowl on top of my computer monitor. The
inside of the bowl ends up being just the right temp.

During the summer, I'll sometimes put the bowl in sunlight to provide more
even heating.

> Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some good way
> to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?

I proof my doughnuts at room temperature, and I've seen that it's better
for the dough. Alton Brown claims that you should proof in the fridge, but
I can't say that I agree with that. I've noticed that it leads to uneven
proofing as the dough goes through its temperature change in a rather slow
fashion. Minor point, but for fragile doughs it can be a problem.

> Fred


--
-Brian James Macke
"In order to get that which you wish for, you must first get that which
builds it." -- Unknown

"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> Fred
> The Good Gourmet
> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>
>

Thanks for the tips. I was really concerned about proofing after the loaves
are made up. The first proofing isn't much of a deal and room temp. seems
fine to me. The idea of starting and then stopping the oven makes sense.
I'll work with that idea. In fact I'll make up some dinner rolls at the
store today and test the process in our "consumer kitchen." Take care.

Fred
The Good Gourmet
http://www.thegoodgourmet.com

"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do
it
> > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
some
> > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
> >
> > Fred
> > The Good Gourmet
> > http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for the tips. I was really concerned about proofing after the
loaves
> are made up. The first proofing isn't much of a deal and room temp. seems
> fine to me. The idea of starting and then stopping the oven makes sense.
> I'll work with that idea. In fact I'll make up some dinner rolls at the
> store today and test the process in our "consumer kitchen." Take care.
>
> Fred
> The Good Gourmet
> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>
>

I tried the oven method today. I turned the oven on for about a minute and
then shut it off and put a pan of dinner rolls and a pan of baguettes in to
proof. The proofed product was pretty uneven. What I mean is that the
baguettes had a lumpy crust as though some little creature was inside trying
to break through in spots and the cloverleaf rolls looked kind of funny.
Nevertheless, everything baked to perfection and the product had perfect
texture and good flavor. I think the oven might have proofed a little too
fast and, hence, unevenly. At least the dough was good. I'll keep
experimenting.

Fred
The Good Gourmet
http://www.thegoodgourmet.com

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:48:45 GMT, "Fred" >
wrote:

>
>"Fred" > wrote in message
.net...
>>
>> "Fred" > wrote in message
>> . net...
>> > I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
>> > chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do
>it
>> > at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there
>some
>> > good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>> >
>> > Fred
>> > The Good Gourmet
>> > http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Thanks for the tips. I was really concerned about proofing after the
>loaves
>> are made up. The first proofing isn't much of a deal and room temp. seems
>> fine to me. The idea of starting and then stopping the oven makes sense.
>> I'll work with that idea. In fact I'll make up some dinner rolls at the
>> store today and test the process in our "consumer kitchen." Take care.
>>
>> Fred
>> The Good Gourmet
>> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>>
>>
>
>I tried the oven method today. I turned the oven on for about a minute and
>then shut it off and put a pan of dinner rolls and a pan of baguettes in to
>proof. The proofed product was pretty uneven. What I mean is that the
>baguettes had a lumpy crust as though some little creature was inside trying
>to break through in spots and the cloverleaf rolls looked kind of funny.
>Nevertheless, everything baked to perfection and the product had perfect
>texture and good flavor. I think the oven might have proofed a little too
>fast and, hence, unevenly. At least the dough was good. I'll keep
>experimenting.
>
>Fred
>The Good Gourmet
>http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>

Howdy,

It seems that much of this thread is based upon the (false) assumption
that it is best to warm the dough, and therefor accelerate the
proofing process. Generally, cooler, slower proofing yields better
flavor and texture.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 17 Jan 2004 at 21:30, Kenneth wrote:

> It seems that much of this thread is based upon the (false) assumption
> that it is best to warm the dough, and therefor accelerate the
> proofing process. Generally, cooler, slower proofing yields better
> flavor and texture.

While that's true, it's often helpful to have a good idea when the bread will be
done, and how well it will have risen.

Controlling the temperature of the dough as well as the temperature and
humidity of the proofing area are big factors in this.


Mike--
Mike Avery

ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other
way *

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Takes the 'H' out of shave
Burma-Shave

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:38:38 -0700, "Mike Avery"
> wrote:

>Controlling the temperature of the dough as well as the temperature and
>humidity of the proofing area are big factors in this.

Hi Mike,

On that we agree, but please note how frequently in this thread folks
talk about ways of "warming" the dough. In fact, I don't recall too
many comments about accurately measuring the temperature of the dough
or the surrounding environment.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:30:34 -0500, Kenneth wrote:

> It seems that much of this thread is based upon the (false) assumption
> that it is best to warm the dough, and therefor accelerate the proofing
> process. Generally, cooler, slower proofing yields better flavor and
> texture.

I think it's improper to say that warming up the dough is "accelerating"
the proofing process. Proofing dough is done at the ideal temperature for
yeast growth (near 32C/90F and 80-85% humidity). To raise your dough at
any temperature outside the ideal yeast growth range and you are
"retarding" the yeast growth. Sometimes this is useful, like in doughnut
production. For something like pizza crust, it's just a slower process.
Better to get the pizza dough's yeast moving rather than take 25% longer
for no palatable benefit.


--
-Brian James Macke
"In order to get that which you wish for, you must first get that which
builds it." -- Unknown

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:00:54 -0600, "Brian Macke"
> wrote:

>I think it's improper to say that warming up the dough is "accelerating"
>the proofing process. Proofing dough is done at the ideal temperature for
>yeast growth (near 32C/90F and 80-85% humidity).

Well, we certainly disagree...

When you say above that "Proofing dough is done at the ideal
temperature for yeast growth" you are confusing "ideal" with "most
rapid."

Proofing can, in fact, be "done" at any temperature that allows the
yeasts to multiply. Dough will proof (slowly) in the refrigerator.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

pc playing up so sorry if this appears more than once.i empty a shelf
in my airing cupboard and pop the bowl of dough in there for the first
rise.(if my kitchen is not warm enough--otherwise i just leave it on
the worktop) for the second rise i put the bread tins on top of my
central heating boiler and the warmth from that is just right.

"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> Fred
> The Good Gourmet
> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>
>

Here's my setup for proofing yeast dough: I place the oiled dough in a
warmed greased bowl, then place the covered bowl on top of an electric
heating pad (yeah, the kind used for sore muscles! LOL) set at "medium".
When I make rolls, after the first rising I shape the rolls, place them on a
greased baking sheet, cover, and place the baking sheet on the heating pad
for the final rise.

In lieu of a heating pad, I've used a 9"x13" roasting pan filled halfway
with the hottest water from the tap. I set the baking sheet on top of that
and cover the dough. This works really well, too.

When kitchen and oven space are at a premium, these "portable" methods can
be used in almost any room in the house...as long as you remember you've got
dough rising somewhere! :-)

Karen

Some folks use a picnic cooler with a small light inside--40W.
Others have used a heating pad--use a rack to elevate the bottom of
the bowl above the pad--or use a light bulb again--then invert a box
or wrap/cover in towels and blankets.
I used to use my microwave--filled with quart jars of very hot water.

Lately I just let it go natural in my cool house, ~64 degrees.
It takes longer, but the bread tastes better!

Many if the current bread gurus are touting the longer, cooler rise
for making superior bread: more complex flavor elements need
longer rises and cooler temperatures to developed. Some even "retard"
bread development in the refrigerator overnight. See books by Peter
Reinhart,
Nancy Silverton, Carol Field, and several others. I have tried it and it
really is the way to go. One can have a bread recipe going all the time if
there is room in the 'fridge! Just fold it down once per day. I made a
really good batch of pizza dough over a full week recently. When we finally
stretched it out and used it, I could not believe the great elasticity of
the dough---and the taste was the best!

Let us know what method you use and what the results are.

Barb



"Fred" > wrote in message
. net...
> I learned how bakers proof bread at the culinary school today. I had a
> chance to use the big wet warm cabinet called a proofer. How do you do it
> at home? Do you just wait longer in cooler temperatures or is there some
> good way to produce the effects of a proofer in a home kitchen?
>
> Fred
> The Good Gourmet
> http://www.thegoodgourmet.com
>
>