I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it is
taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into consideration
that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs. Is there a formula
that I can apply to my calculations that will reflect this offset?

Any input would be helpful.
Jean-Scott

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:09:14 +0000, Jean-Scott wrote:

> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it is
> taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into consideration
> that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs. Is there a formula
> that I can apply to my calculations that will reflect this offset?
>
> Any input would be helpful.
> Jean-Scott

In baking (such as bread baking) the amount of carbs used by the yeast is
going to be very small - insignificant in my opinion.

Only in things like wine and beer making are a significant level of carbs
converted. In wine, most of the fermentable carbs are already sugars. In
beer making, the barley is sprouted, then the wort cooked to convert
and extract some measure of the complex carbs to simpler sugars via enzyme
action. No such large scale conversion to sugar takes place in yeast
baking, and the amount of sugar added to most bread recipes is only a
small portion of the total carb count.

wesley > wrote in
news
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:09:14 +0000, Jean-Scott wrote:
>
>> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it
>> is taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into
>> consideration that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs.
>> Is there a formula that I can apply to my calculations that will
>> reflect this offset?
>>
>> Any input would be helpful.
>> Jean-Scott
>
> In baking (such as bread baking) the amount of carbs used by the yeast
> is going to be very small - insignificant in my opinion.
>
> Only in things like wine and beer making are a significant level of
> carbs converted. In wine, most of the fermentable carbs are already
> sugars. In beer making, the barley is sprouted, then the wort cooked
> to convert and extract some measure of the complex carbs to simpler
> sugars via enzyme action. No such large scale conversion to sugar
> takes place in yeast baking, and the amount of sugar added to most
> bread recipes is only a small portion of the total carb count.
>
>

This is a good point... but...
If I am producing a low carb bread, and it uses all low or "no" carb
ingredients, vital wheat gluten and high protein substitute, then I add in
enough sugar so as to feed the yeast, then it IS a significant amount of
the carbs. And if it accounts for more than 50% of the total carbs, and it
is used by the yeast reducing it by 25% then my carbs may go down 10% in
the total batch. Which is ALOT to all my carb counting minions that want as
low a carbed up bread as they can get.... and still be palatable.

Jean-Scott

So I still ask... What % of the carbs in the sugar are transformed in the
fermentation process.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 02:57:59 +0000, Jean-Scott wrote:

> wesley > wrote in
> news >
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:09:14 +0000, Jean-Scott wrote:
>>
>>> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it
>>> is taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into
>>> consideration that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs.
>>> Is there a formula that I can apply to my calculations that will
>>> reflect this offset?
>>>
>>> Any input would be helpful.
>>> Jean-Scott
>>
>> In baking (such as bread baking) the amount of carbs used by the yeast
>> is going to be very small - insignificant in my opinion.
>>
>> Only in things like wine and beer making are a significant level of
>> carbs converted. In wine, most of the fermentable carbs are already
>> sugars. In beer making, the barley is sprouted, then the wort cooked to
>> convert and extract some measure of the complex carbs to simpler sugars
>> via enzyme action. No such large scale conversion to sugar takes place
>> in yeast baking, and the amount of sugar added to most bread recipes is
>> only a small portion of the total carb count.
>>
>>
>>
> This is a good point... but...
> If I am producing a low carb bread, and it uses all low or "no" carb
> ingredients, vital wheat gluten and high protein substitute, then I add
> in enough sugar so as to feed the yeast, then it IS a significant amount
> of the carbs. And if it accounts for more than 50% of the total carbs,
> and it is used by the yeast reducing it by 25% then my carbs may go down
> 10% in the total batch. Which is ALOT to all my carb counting minions
> that want as low a carbed up bread as they can get.... and still be
> palatable.
>
> Jean-Scott
>
> So I still ask... What % of the carbs in the sugar are transformed in
> the fermentation process.

The only way you'll get an accurate read for your purposes is to send
samples of the product to a food lab for analysis.

However, breads do not require a lot of sugar for fermentation (many
traditional recipes call for no added sugar and simply use what is
available from the flour.)

Say your only source of carb in your bread is the added sugar for
fermentation. If you added 2 tablespoons sugar for a 1 1/2 lb. loaf,
that'd be about 24 grams of carb for the whole loaf or about 1.2 grams per
slice (20 slices.) So the difference between using 25% and 50% of the
sugar for fermentation is only 0.3 grams carb.

Keep in mind that if you are listing nutrition info in accordance with FDA
nutrition labeling requirements as a food manufacturer, you must have the
lab analysis. Calculating nutrition info from ingredient nutrition info is
a no-no unless you have a special exemption.

Jean-Scott wrote:
> wesley > wrote in
> news >
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:09:14 +0000, Jean-Scott wrote:
>>
>>> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe
>>> it is taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into
>>> consideration that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total
>>> carbs. Is there a formula that I can apply to my calculations that
>>> will reflect this offset?
>>>
>>> Any input would be helpful.
>>> Jean-Scott
>>
>> In baking (such as bread baking) the amount of carbs used by the
>> yeast is going to be very small - insignificant in my opinion.
>>
>> Only in things like wine and beer making are a significant level of
>> carbs converted. In wine, most of the fermentable carbs are already
>> sugars. In beer making, the barley is sprouted, then the wort cooked
>> to convert and extract some measure of the complex carbs to simpler
>> sugars via enzyme action. No such large scale conversion to sugar
>> takes place in yeast baking, and the amount of sugar added to most
>> bread recipes is only a small portion of the total carb count.
>>
>>
>
> This is a good point... but...
> If I am producing a low carb bread, and it uses all low or "no" carb
> ingredients, vital wheat gluten and high protein substitute, then I
> add in enough sugar so as to feed the yeast, then it IS a significant
> amount of the carbs. And if it accounts for more than 50% of the
> total carbs, and it is used by the yeast reducing it by 25% then my
> carbs may go down 10% in the total batch. Which is ALOT to all my
> carb counting minions that want as low a carbed up bread as they can
> get.... and still be palatable.
>
> Jean-Scott
>
> So I still ask... What % of the carbs in the sugar are transformed in
> the fermentation process.


Jean-Scott,

Will you be posting this recipe so that we can try it ourselves?

-TK

"TheKidd" > wrote in
:

> Jean-Scott,
>
> Will you be posting this recipe so that we can try it ourselves?
>
> -TK
>

I have made this bread, and it is very "bread like". Not to be mistaken
for what we n know as bread. It has the texture and look of bread, and
the taste is a nice subtle flavor, with a slight egg flavor. The texture
is a little chewy, or snappy... hard to describe. I had one slice to
try... not bad, then I had one with butter... much better, then I toasted
one... very nice. One slice is 1 ounce (30g). Here is the nutritional
info:

16 oz loaf
16 1 oz servings
Calories 61
calories from fat 22
Total Fat 2.4g
saturated fat 1.1g
Cholesterol 17mg
Sodium 107mg
Total Carbohydrates 1.8g
dietary fiber .1g
Protein 8.0g

Recipe:

6 oz Vital wheat gluten
1/4 oz Active Dry Yeast (1 packet)
8 oz water (1 cup)
1/2 tsp salt
1 egg
2 Tbs sugar
2 Tbs Splenda (sugar derivative)

Combine all dry ingredients in bowl.
Mix all wet ingredients well. Fold together until well combined. The
dough will be very wet. Fold out onto work surface and knead by hand, a
dough hook will not work with this type dough. Not a standard knead
process either. You will know as you work it. A gentle stretching and
tucking into the center action. Form into an oblong loaf and place into a
loaf pan that has been lightly sprayed with nonstick (Pam...). Let it
rise 1 time in a warm place around 80 degrees for 45 minutes. Place in
oven and bake at 350 for 45 minutes. DO NOT PREHEAT OVEN. Sounds weird
but this helps the bread to rise more as the oven heats up.

Now remember, this is a bread substitute, so if you think it's going to
taste like wheat flour bread.... you will be disapointed. BUT, it does
make a very nice bread that can be eaten guiltlessly and enjoyed toasted.
It is very healthy and impossibly low in carbohydrates.

I may try this again with less water to see if it helps with the wetness
and texture.

If you make it, please post bake as how you like it. I would love to
know.

Thanks.
Jean-Scott

>snip<
> If you make it, please post bake as how you like it.

;-)))
Kim

"Jean-Scott" > wrote in message >...
> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it is
> taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into consideration
> that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs. Is there a formula
> that I can apply to my calculations that will reflect this offset?
>
> Any input would be helpful.
> Jean-Scott

Jean I am not aware of a formula that will allow you to calculate the
carbohydrate consumed enzymatically by the flour and yeast enZymes.
Enzymes does not act with precision in the dough system.What I mean
is enzyme activity is not that fixed but variable.It is fixed on the
particular substrate it can act upon but the availability of such
materials vary from flour to flour.
Besides the carbohydrates that is acted upon by the enzymes are not
the significant ones such as the starch and gluten found in the dough.
Rather it is some the starch granules that is altered by the milling
process ( damaged starch)that is susceptible to enzymatic attack.
The quantity is minimal based on the proximate analysis of the flour
components at the dough stage and in the baked bread.
Besides not all of the so called susceptible starches are acted upon
by enzymes but only a portion of it.It varies also with the
fermentation time and formulation( incorporation of enzymatic
additives etc.)
There are other carbohydrate components although are in such small
quantities such as the pentosans or hemicellulose but when
enzymatically acted by the corresponding enzymes can confere
significant effect in dough or bread.

There might be some values calculated by some industrial researchers
in their specific experiments that are( related to their company's
products) but I have not seen it published in cereal, agricultural or
food chemistry journals and articles.Or I may have missed it<g>.
To my knowledge most of the researches done on flour and enzymatic
additives are done by private companies and seldom by academic
researchers. Therefore there is scarcity of useful data that can be
used in predicting such values in the particular food processing
methods like breadmaking.

Roy

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:12:33 -0800, Roy Basan wrote:

> "Jean-Scott" > wrote in message
>...
>> I have software that does nutritional analysis. However, I believe it is
>> taking the carbohydrates at face value. It does not take into consideration
>> that the yeast in a recipe will reduce the total carbs. Is there a formula
>> that I can apply to my calculations that will reflect this offset?
>>
>> Any input would be helpful.
>> Jean-Scott

Great thread!

> Besides the carbohydrates that is acted upon by the enzymes are not
> the significant ones such as the starch and gluten found in the dough.

As fermentation time increases the gluten structure starts to break
down. This is most apparent in the flour/water/salt sourdough process.

So are there no carb elements being used up here during this breakdown?

Thanks.

"michael" > wrote in message >.. .
..
>
> As fermentation time increases the gluten structure starts to break
> down. This is most apparent in the flour/water/salt sourdough process.
>
> So are there no carb elements being used up here during this breakdown?
>
> Thanks.

During the fermentation process regardless of the lenght in time ,is
the gluten that is mostly affected. ( except the flour mill damaged
starch as I mentioned previously ).
Meanwhile the intact starch granules where the gluten matrix is
embedded remains unreacted.
But during the earler stage of the baking process as starch starch to
gelatinise ( ruptured) it is already opened for enzymatic attact
for a very brief moment at elevated temperature until the enzymes are
inactivated.
But I have not found reliable data to know the values as how much
starch was affected during the baking process..
Roy

(Roy Basan) wrote in
om:

> "michael" > wrote in message
> >.. . .
>>
>> As fermentation time increases the gluten structure starts to break
>> down. This is most apparent in the flour/water/salt sourdough
>> process.
>>
>> So are there no carb elements being used up here during this
>> breakdown?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> During the fermentation process regardless of the lenght in time ,is
> the gluten that is mostly affected. ( except the flour mill damaged
> starch as I mentioned previously ).
> Meanwhile the intact starch granules where the gluten matrix is
> embedded remains unreacted.
> But during the earler stage of the baking process as starch starch to
> gelatinise ( ruptured) it is already opened for enzymatic attact
> for a very brief moment at elevated temperature until the enzymes are
> inactivated.
> But I have not found reliable data to know the values as how much
> starch was affected during the baking process..
> Roy
>

It seems that IF it is affected, it is so small of a percentage, and
divided by the number of servings per loaf, will probably only slightly
affect the total carbs per 1 oz or 30g slice.

Jean-Scott