If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.

thx

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0000, shipwreck wrote:

> If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market, who
> comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking, Bosch,
> Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.

Names that spring to my mind would be Sunbeam, Oscar, or Black & Decker.
These are all discounted brands that would capture the "I want a stand
mixer but I don't want to spend $200 on it" demographic.

Having said that, if you're looking for quality don't assume that #2 is
going to be better than #1 or any of the others out there.

--
-Brian James Macke
"In order to get that which you wish for, you must first get that which
builds it." -- Unknown

"Brian Macke" > wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0000, shipwreck wrote:
>
>> If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market, who
>> comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking, Bosch,
>> Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
>Names that spring to my mind would be Sunbeam, Oscar, or Black & Decker.
>These are all discounted brands that would capture the "I want a stand
>mixer but I don't want to spend $200 on it" demographic.

For most of the stuff that I use a stand mixer for, my Sunbeam
MixMaster was as good as (or better than) the KitchenAid I currently
have. I don't make bread using the mixer, nor do I grind grain or
meat. My MixMaster is still going fine at a friend's house....

MixMasters are fine mixers, they just don't have the capacity that a
KitchenAid does (which is why I got the KitchenAid). We refurbished
an old (1960s) MixMaster as a wedding gift for friends, and they are
really happy with it...(both of their moms had one...).

ymmv
jenn

--
Jenn Ridley

In article > ,
says...
> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0000, shipwreck wrote:
>
> > If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market, who
> > comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking, Bosch,
> > Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
> Names that spring to my mind would be Sunbeam, Oscar, or Black & Decker.
> These are all discounted brands that would capture the "I want a stand
> mixer but I don't want to spend $200 on it" demographic.
>
> Having said that, if you're looking for quality don't assume that #2 is
> going to be better than #1 or any of the others out there.

Indeed - I've got a Sunbeam Mixmaster stand unit. Does reasonably well
but I'll eventually swap it out for a KitchenAid or like unit.

Brian Macke wrote:
> ... if you're looking for quality don't assume that #2 is
> going to be better than #1 or any of the others out there.

Speaking of which...

How do folks feel about the Kitchenaid Artisan series vs the
Professional series? Is the Pro 'that' much better?

We were thinking about just getting the Pro version - but it is
exactly 0.5" too tall to fit under the cabinetry when not in use.
So unless I can figure something out, will probably have to settle
for the Artisan.

Walt
-...-
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)

shipwreck > writes:

>From: shipwreck >
>Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
>Subject: So, who's the #2 home food mixer?
>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 GMT
>
>If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
>who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
>Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.

I really don't know - but I sure would like to own one of these model
AR5 varimixers in the smallest (5 liter) size:

http://www.bohec.com/products/bear.html

http://www.bearvarimixer.com

They're made in Denmark and look like they're built for small
commercial or institutional kitchens. The fact that they're "Bears"
is also a plus.

I just can't seem to find out if they're sold in the U.S.

Even if they're only available for 220v, I already have a European-
style 220v outlet in my kitchen to use with some appliances which my
wife had when she lived in Switzerland. Of course, it is 60Hz rather
than the 50Hz common in the UK and Europe.

Cheers,
The Old Bear

"The Old Bear" > wrote in message
news
> shipwreck > writes:
>
> >From: shipwreck >
> >Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
> >Subject: So, who's the #2 home food mixer?
> >Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 GMT
> >
> >If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
> >who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
> >Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
> I really don't know - but I sure would like to own one of these model
> AR5 varimixers in the smallest (5 liter) size:
>
> http://www.bohec.com/products/bear.html
>
> http://www.bearvarimixer.com
>
> They're made in Denmark and look like they're built for small
> commercial or institutional kitchens. The fact that they're "Bears"
> is also a plus.
>
> I just can't seem to find out if they're sold in the U.S.
>

It looks like Mixer World in Orlando, Fl carries the Varimixer line:
http://www.mixerworld.com/index-countertopmixers.html

You might call them to see if they have the specific model you want. It
looks like they have the very large ones.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:27:04 +0000, Tony P. wrote:

> Indeed - I've got a Sunbeam Mixmaster stand unit. Does reasonably well
> but I'll eventually swap it out for a KitchenAid or like unit.

You could skip the high-end in-home and go for a Hobart. You can tell
people that you pulled it from a WWII battleship.

--
-Brian James Macke
"In order to get that which you wish for, you must first get that which
builds it." -- Unknown

"Vox Humana" > writes:

>From: "Vox Humana" >
>Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
>Subject: So, who's the #2 home food mixer?
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:56:49 GMT
>
>"The Old Bear" wrote:
>>
>> shipwreck > writes:
>>
>> >If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
>> >who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
>> >Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>>
>> I really don't know - but I sure would like to own one of these model
>> AR5 varimixers in the smallest (5 liter) size:
>>
>> http://www.bohec.com/products/bear.html
>> http://www.bearvarimixer.com
>>
>> They're made in Denmark and look like they're built for small
>> commercial or institutional kitchens. The fact that they're "Bears"
>> is also a plus.
>>
>> I just can't seem to find out if they're sold in the U.S.
>
>It looks like Mixer World in Orlando, Fl carries the Varimixer line:
>http://www.mixerworld.com/index-countertopmixers.html
>
>You might call them to see if they have the specific model you want. It
>looks like they have the very large ones.

I think the name "Varimixer" must belong to two separate companies:

A/S Wodschow & Co. in Denmark
http://www.bearvarimixer.com

Varimixer in Louisiana
http://www.varimixer.com

The Louisiana company used to be part of Welbilt, I believe. You can
still reach their website using http://www.varimixer.welbilt.com/

This might explain why one cannot find the Danish-made product in the
U.S. -- the name is trademarked by a different company. Possibly
Wodschow's machine is sold under a different trademark in the U.S.

I believe the Varimixer company in Louisiana makes nothing smaller
than 20-quart -- which is much too large for even serious home
baking.

BTW, the specs on the Danish 5-liter machine a

Model AR5

Dimensions (LxWxH): 415mm x 280mm x 475mm
approx. 16-1/4" x 11" x 18-3/4"

Bowl capacity: 5 Litres (5-1/4 quarts)
Gross weight: 17Kg (37-1/2 lbs.)
Power: 0.45 HP 0.33KW

Infinitely varaible speed: 30 - 200 RPM

Which seems pretty reasonable for a serious home mixer. This would
be comparable to the KitchenAid KSM150PS Artisan Series Stand Mixer
which has a 5-quart bowl, 10 speed settings, a 325-watt motor, is
14" x 8-3/4" x 14" and weighs 25 lbs.

I believe there is a kitchen appliance usenet newsgroup. I will
seek that out when I am getting more serious about acquiring a new
mixer.

Regards,
Will
The Old Bear

(Please NOTE: My correct e-mail address is in my Signature) On Sat, 06
Mar 2004 19:14:00 GMT, during the rec.food.baking Community News Flash
shipwreck > reported:

>If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
>who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
>Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
>thx

In Europe it might be Braun or Morphy Richards.

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
NOTE: From March 15, please add the letter c after my name
for my new REAL e-mail address!
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~
Links to my published poetry - http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~

(Please NOTE: My correct e-mail address is in my Signature) On Sat, 06
Mar 2004 19:14:00 GMT, during the rec.food.baking Community News Flash
shipwreck > reported:

>If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
>who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
>Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
>thx

Sorry - its probably Kenwood!

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
NOTE: From March 15, please add the letter c after my name
for my new REAL e-mail address!
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~
Links to my published poetry - http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~

Kenwood

--
Helen

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith that
saves is faith in Him

www.peagramfamily.com
http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com


"shipwreck" > wrote in message
...
> If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
> who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
> Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
>
> thx

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0000, shipwreck wrote:

> If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
> who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
> Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.

to take this in a slightly different direction (or maybe not), i just read
a very interesting book called "trading up". it is all about how the
concept of luxury has changed in America. a quick synopsis might be that
it used to be that there were low-priced goods which sold in high volumes,
and as prices raised volumes decreased ... until you ended at true luxury
goods which sold to very few rich people.

the new thing (perhaps because we have more disposable income) is that
there can be inversions. things that cost more, can sell more, than the
lower priced options. kitchenaid having 75% of the market seems a perfect
example. the authors note that it is sometimes the middle of the new
price curve that disappears. there might still be low priced mixers
(etc.), and high-priced mixers ... but fewer mid-priced mixers.

their observation is that we don't uniformly choose luxuries for
everything, but decide which are important and "trade up" for those. i
know i'm frugal/cheap in a lot of ways, but i did "trade up" to a
kitchenaid professional (old 350w) at one point.

somewhat in the same vein, "Panera Bread" is named as a success in this
"new luxury" category ... selling high quality bread and sandwitches to
masses of people for higher cost than typical fast food.

book link:

http://www.bcg.com/publications/trad...troduction.jsp

(the book also makes the shocking statement that 75% of all viking ranges
installed are never used)

"The Old Bear" > wrote in message
news
> "Vox Humana" > writes:
>
> >From: "Vox Humana" >
> >Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
> >Subject: So, who's the #2 home food mixer?
> >Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:56:49 GMT
> >
> >"The Old Bear" wrote:
> >>
> >> shipwreck > writes:
> >>
> >> >If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
> >> >who comes in at #2? I'm not talking about handhelds. Is it Viking,
> >> >Bosch, Electrolux, JennAir? I'm sure I'm missing someone as well.
> >>
> >> I really don't know - but I sure would like to own one of these model
> >> AR5 varimixers in the smallest (5 liter) size:
> >>
> >> http://www.bohec.com/products/bear.html
> >> http://www.bearvarimixer.com
> >>
> >> They're made in Denmark and look like they're built for small
> >> commercial or institutional kitchens. The fact that they're "Bears"
> >> is also a plus.
> >>
> >> I just can't seem to find out if they're sold in the U.S.
> >
> >It looks like Mixer World in Orlando, Fl carries the Varimixer line:
> >http://www.mixerworld.com/index-countertopmixers.html
> >
> >You might call them to see if they have the specific model you want. It
> >looks like they have the very large ones.
>
> I think the name "Varimixer" must belong to two separate companies:
>
> A/S Wodschow & Co. in Denmark
> http://www.bearvarimixer.com
>
> Varimixer in Louisiana
> http://www.varimixer.com
>
> The Louisiana company used to be part of Welbilt, I believe. You can
> still reach their website using http://www.varimixer.welbilt.com/
>
> This might explain why one cannot find the Danish-made product in the
> U.S. -- the name is trademarked by a different company. Possibly
> Wodschow's machine is sold under a different trademark in the U.S.
>
> I believe the Varimixer company in Louisiana makes nothing smaller
> than 20-quart -- which is much too large for even serious home
> baking.
>
> BTW, the specs on the Danish 5-liter machine a
>
> Model AR5
>
> Dimensions (LxWxH): 415mm x 280mm x 475mm
> approx. 16-1/4" x 11" x 18-3/4"
>
> Bowl capacity: 5 Litres (5-1/4 quarts)
> Gross weight: 17Kg (37-1/2 lbs.)
> Power: 0.45 HP 0.33KW
>
> Infinitely varaible speed: 30 - 200 RPM
>
> Which seems pretty reasonable for a serious home mixer. This would
> be comparable to the KitchenAid KSM150PS Artisan Series Stand Mixer
> which has a 5-quart bowl, 10 speed settings, a 325-watt motor, is
> 14" x 8-3/4" x 14" and weighs 25 lbs.
>
> I believe there is a kitchen appliance usenet newsgroup. I will
> seek that out when I am getting more serious about acquiring a new
> mixer.

I was at Williams-Sonoma yesterday and noticed that they were carrying the
Hobart 5 qt. stand mixer for $1999. A friendly clerk (unusual in my
experience) came over. She said that they had sold only two of them and the
one she sold was purely a status purchase. Apparently the couple who bought
asked no questions about the mixer but had a lengthy discussion on how
impressive it would look on their kitchen counter. You can get it for less
elsewhere
http://thekitchenguys.com/Merchant2/...ry_ Code=HBMX

at Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:14:20 GMT in <pan.2004.03.07.17.14.19.719335
@Socks.Invalid>, lid (Socks) wrote :

>On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0000, shipwreck wrote:
>
>> If KitchenAid is the #1 home mixer, with probably 75% of the market,
>> who comes in at #2? ...
>
>to take this in a slightly different direction (or maybe not), i just read
>a very interesting book called "trading up". it is all about how the
>concept of luxury has changed in America. a quick synopsis might be that
>it used to be that there were low-priced goods which sold in high volumes,
>and as prices raised volumes decreased ... until you ended at true luxury
>goods which sold to very few rich people.
>
>the new thing (perhaps because we have more disposable income) is that
>there can be inversions. things that cost more, can sell more, than the
>lower priced options...

My impression is that there's a different phenomenon going on, namely,
repositioning. What's been going on is that the general quality, in
virtually any market segment, is inching down over time, as manufacturers
try to cut costs, not necessarily to gouge the customer but quite
frequently simply to stay alive in industries filled with incredibly
cutthroat competitors. A company will accept a slight loss in quality of
product in exchange for a massive cost reduction, and the inexorable
downward spiral starts to happen - now another slight reduction in quality
is allowed on the already-modified product, and in a few generations the
product is markedly worse that the original, even though the incremental
changes were small and possibly went unnoticed.

Cutting costs at the expense of quality may be the only way to compete for
many companies, if they choose to stay positioned at the same market
segment, but there's another option. You can retain the same quality level
by repositioning your product into the next higher market segment. So a
"consumer" model can be positioned as a low-high-end model. A low-high-end
can be positioned as a "luxury" model. So instead of changing the product,
you change the perception of it. This can also happen in a slightly
different form - a company goes through the cost-cutting cycles several
times on their original product, and keeps that product in its now-
compromised state, but introduces a new, higher-end product that
essentially duplicates the quality level the original product once had.
It's the same net effect.

A KitchenAid, for example, isn't really a particularly high-end mixer,
rather, it's a decent home machine that years ago might have sold to the
consumer segment. But now the consumer position is occupied by products so
junky that in an earlier day they might not have sold at all. Those
products are dirt cheap, to be sure, but you get what you pay for. And in
the end, the customer isn't quite so easily fooled as meets the eye. Most
people recognize the difference between something reasonable and something
worthless. In the areas where competition is most severe, and quality at
the low end is most noticeably poor, people "trade up" because they
recognize that you need something that supplies at least adequate
functionality. KitchenAids are relatively popular because consumers reach a
frustration level with the cheap machines that convinces them there must be
a better way. That certain things can be seen as status symbols merely
supplies the consumer with a convenient excuse to justify buying them.
(Although I don't quite see why the simple need to have a functional item
isn't enough justification in its own right).
--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 02:25:03 +0000, Alex Rast wrote:

> at Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:14:20 GMT in <pan.2004.03.07.17.14.19.719335
> @Socks.Invalid>, lid (Socks) wrote :

>>to take this in a slightly different direction (or maybe not), i just
>>read a very interesting book called "trading up". it is all about how
>>the concept of luxury has changed in America. a quick synopsis might be
>>that it used to be that there were low-priced goods which sold in high
>>volumes, and as prices raised volumes decreased ... until you ended at
>>true luxury goods which sold to very few rich people.
>>
>>the new thing (perhaps because we have more disposable income) is that
>>there can be inversions. things that cost more, can sell more, than the
>>lower priced options...
>
> My impression is that there's a different phenomenon going on, namely,
> repositioning. What's been going on is that the general quality, in
> virtually any market segment, is inching down over time, as
> manufacturers try to cut costs, not necessarily to gouge the customer
> but quite frequently simply to stay alive in industries filled with
> incredibly cutthroat competitors. A company will accept a slight loss in
> quality of product in exchange for a massive cost reduction, and the
> inexorable downward spiral starts to happen - now another slight
> reduction in quality is allowed on the already-modified product, and in
> a few generations the product is markedly worse that the original, even
> though the incremental changes were small and possibly went unnoticed.
> [...]

i agree that other things are going on, at the same time. having read
this book, a lot makes sense and jibes with what i see around me, but ...

as you say, companies can be temped (or even forced) to cut many corners.

i think one of the temptations that might apply here, is that once you've
established a quality/luxury brand, you might try to push it down and out
to as many people as possible. perhaps rather than customers "trading up"
the manufacturer "trades down" :-(

i hope that hasn't gone too far in the kitchenaid case. (but then ... i'm
still "trading up" to a model that can actually drive a dough hook. so
maybe it is a little of each.)

maybe a better example of "new luxury" is Viking (or Sub-Zero), which as
far as i know have not yet "traded down."

In article >,
H PEAGRAM > wrote:

= Kenwood

[... Stand mixer questions. ...]

Is it true that Kenwood is now being sold under a different name?

Was the company bought out, merged, ????

Is the version under the new name (DeLonghi, I think) as good as
the original or has quality deteriorated as that of KitchenAid did
when no longer manufactured by Hobart?


--
Kind regards,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965

http://www.kitchenshop.com/catalog/d...sm700acc.shtml

Can't speak for the new ones, mine is more than 10 years old and I know
Kenwood was being bought out in UK that's why I bought all my attachments on
my last visit home.

"Charlie Sorsby" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> H PEAGRAM > wrote:
>
> = Kenwood
>
> [... Stand mixer questions. ...]
>
> Is it true that Kenwood is now being sold under a different name?
>
> Was the company bought out, merged, ????
>
> Is the version under the new name (DeLonghi, I think) as good as
> the original or has quality deteriorated as that of KitchenAid did
> when no longer manufactured by Hobart?
>
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
> www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965

Charlie Sorsby wrote:
> In article >,
> H PEAGRAM > wrote:
>
> = Kenwood
>
> [... Stand mixer questions. ...]
>
> Is it true that Kenwood is now being sold under a different name?
>
> Was the company bought out, merged, ????
>
> Is the version under the new name (DeLonghi, I think) as good as
> the original or has quality deteriorated as that of KitchenAid did
> when no longer manufactured by Hobart?
>
>
It's still the same.

OTOH, the question about who is number 2 might be off the mark. Anyone
care to discuss the Viking 1000 Watt mixer?
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:46:56 +0000, alzelt wrote:

> OTOH, the question about who is number 2 might be off the mark. Anyone
> care to discuss the Viking 1000 Watt mixer?

i think this part is funny:

"Viking exclusive, patented pending rear wheels for easy maneuverability
around the countertop,"

"Socks" > wrote in message
news
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:46:56 +0000, alzelt wrote:
>
> > OTOH, the question about who is number 2 might be off the mark. Anyone
> > care to discuss the Viking 1000 Watt mixer?
>
> i think this part is funny:
>
> "Viking exclusive, patented pending rear wheels for easy maneuverability
> around the countertop,"

I thought that was a questionable feature also. However, I don't see the
need for self-propelled vacuum cleaners.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in news:H9Z7c.41319$P45.22715
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:

>
> "Socks" > wrote in message
> news
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:46:56 +0000, alzelt wrote:
>>
>> > OTOH, the question about who is number 2 might be off the mark. Anyone
>> > care to discuss the Viking 1000 Watt mixer?
>>
>> i think this part is funny:
>>
>> "Viking exclusive, patented pending rear wheels for easy maneuverability
>> around the countertop,"
>
> I thought that was a questionable feature also. However, I don't see the
> need for self-propelled vacuum cleaners.

I didn't either until I was no longer able to push and pull a regular one
anymore. Funny how one's perspective changes.