I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do not
make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs --not
in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
time.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Her Subj. wrote:
> I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> 6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do
not
> make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs
--not
> in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> time.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Simple,...as you are planning to make more doughs than batters then
just get the more powerful machine with bigger bowl.

Her Subj. wrote:
> I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> 6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do
not
> make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs
--not
> in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> time.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Simple..... as you are making more doughs than batters get the more
powerful machine.

Her Subj. wrote:
> I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> 6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do
not
> make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs
--not
> in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> time.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Simple.... as you plan to make more doughs and less batters...get the
more powerful machine with the bigger bowl.

Her Subj. wrote:

>I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
>whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
>6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do not
>make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs --not
>in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
>time.
>
>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
>

I'd look at the recommended maximum capacity of the mixers and see which
can handle 3 loaves at a time. My old 4 1/2 quart KA can handle 2
without any real problems.

However, it's time to bring up the old KitchenAid reliability question.
Lots of people have complained that KA's just aren't what they used to
be. I don't know, since I bought mine in the 1970's and it's still
going strong.

However, I do have a few observations. The KA manual warns you to make
only a certain amount of dough at a time, and to rest the machine for a
certain length of time after you have mixed the dough. (If memory
serves, a 45 minute rest to cool off after making two batches of bread
in my ancient KA 45.) If you don't follow that advice, you risk your
machine's health.
Why? Pretty simple really. My old Hobart 30 quart mixer had a less
powerful motor than either of the mixers you are looking at. We ran it
for hours on end. It's older than I am, and I don't like talking about
how old I am.

Why did it last, when so many more powerful, smaller, mixers have died?

The commercial Hobart mixers have a single speed motor that always runs
at its optimum speed. The speed of the mixing head is changed by using
a transmission, much like a car has. You have to stop the mixer to
change gears, and then start it again.

The home KitchenAid has a variable speed motor. And, unfortunately, you
have to knead dough at low speeds. Where the work demands high torque.
And the motor has trouble delivering it. It's not KA being bad... it's
the laws of physics.

You might look at eBay for a used Hobart N-50 or 20 quart mixer, or for
a knock-off of these product at professional supply houses. Or you
might look at some of the other mixers on the retail market, such as the
Bosch (which I'm not crazy about) or Electrolux Assistent (which I've
heard good things about).

Mike

In article
therwhen.com>,
says...
> Her Subj. wrote:
>
> >I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> >whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> >6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do not
> >make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs --not
> >in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> >time.
> >
> >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
(snip)
>
> I'd look at the recommended maximum capacity of the mixers and see which
> can handle 3 loaves at a time. My old 4 1/2 quart KA can handle 2
> without any real problems.
>
> However, it's time to bring up the old KitchenAid reliability question.
> Lots of people have complained that KA's just aren't what they used to
> be. I don't know, since I bought mine in the 1970's and it's still
>
>
> You might look at eBay for a used Hobart N-50 or 20 quart mixer, or for
> a knock-off of these product at professional supply houses. Or you
> might look at some of the other mixers on the retail market, such as the
> Bosch (which I'm not crazy about) or Electrolux Assistent (which I've
> heard good things about).

No mention of the Magic Mill, the Swedish mixer? I swear by mine,
handles 10 cups of flour and barely gets warm, and the dough that comes
out is window pane wonderful. (I started out with the KitchenAid 5-quart
and gave up on it, because the only thing it had in common with Hobart
was the name.)

LDR wrote:

>
>No mention of the Magic Mill, the Swedish mixer? I swear by mine,
>handles 10 cups of flour and barely gets warm, and the dough that comes
>out is window pane wonderful. (I started out with the KitchenAid 5-quart
>and gave up on it, because the only thing it had in common with Hobart
>was the name.)
>
The Magic Mill is no being sold as the Electrolux Assistent (I may have
their odd spelling wrong).

Mike

http://www.breadbeckers.com/electrolux_assistent.htm shows it is the
other way around, and Magic Mill is the importer and provides the
warranty in the US... Magic Mill is in effect buying from Sweden
[Electrolux] and selling it in the US and Canada because Electrolux
does NOT sell it in North America.

http://www.nutritionlifestyles.com/dlx.htm says The Electrolux
Assistent (formerly Magic Mill Assistent) but it is still imported by
Magic Mill...

http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/items/item5022.html [King Arthur]
claims it is a viable alternative to a Hobart...

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/mag..._dlx_mixer.asp shows the
usual and also has added components for a higher price but less than
if they were ordered separately. They also claim to have to bread
recipe books developed for the Assistent.

http://www.epinions.com/content_123440303748 for a long review by
someone who bought and was using one...

http://www.magicmillusa.com/ still shows it called the Magic Mill
Assistent but the site has not been updated since 2002...

The basic machine has been around since 1940, so it is 65 years old
and has not changed much in all that time. Most of the features are
identical, but modernised.

FWIW
RsH
------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:34:05 -0600, Mike Avery
> wrote:

>LDR wrote:
>
>>
>>No mention of the Magic Mill, the Swedish mixer? I swear by mine,
>>handles 10 cups of flour and barely gets warm, and the dough that comes
>>out is window pane wonderful. (I started out with the KitchenAid 5-quart
>>and gave up on it, because the only thing it had in common with Hobart
>>was the name.)
>>
>The Magic Mill is no being sold as the Electrolux Assistent (I may have
>their odd spelling wrong).
>
>Mike

================================================== =====
>
Copyright retained. My opinions - no one else's...
If this is illegal where you are, do not read it!

<SNIP>
>
> No mention of the Magic Mill, the Swedish mixer? I swear by mine,
> handles 10 cups of flour and barely gets warm, and the dough that comes
> out is window pane wonderful. (I started out with the KitchenAid 5-quart
> and gave up on it, because the only thing it had in common with Hobart
> was the name.)

The specs look really good, but how is
this for the low end - kneading dough
for a couple of loaves?

Irax.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:02:01 -0600
Mike Avery > wrote:


> You might look at eBay for a used Hobart N-50 or 20 quart mixer, or for
> a knock-off of these product at professional supply houses. Or you
> might look at some of the other mixers on the retail market, such as the
> Bosch (which I'm not crazy about) or Electrolux Assistent (which I've
> heard good things about).


I'd be interested in seeing the Electrolux manual. This mixer is
advertised online as being capable of handling 15 pounds of dough, but i
wonder what the manual really says.

I'm curious because i routinely make about 10 pounds of bread dough at a
time in a 30 year old Bosch Universal, and I was thinking about the 7 quart
Kenwood which is advertised as being capable of handling 11 pounds of
dough.

The achilles heel of the Bosch is it's lack of a proper dasher for
medium consistency doughs - you're either making cakes or breads - cookies
will invariably, eventually, break your beaters. They have some new plastic
cookie mixer things that i haven't yet tried, but i don't have particularly
high hopes.

Yes, I know the butter is supposed to be soft before it goes in, but the
manual says to switch to the dough hook after creaming the eggs and butter
with the sugar, which doesn't really work. I suspect that the teeth on the
cookie attachment will break just like they do on the beaters, when the
beaters themselves don't break.

For what it's worth, I found the oldschool heavy duty stainless steel
bowl for my bosch at a thrift store - the type where the sole attachment is
the dough hook, and it connects at the bottom of the bowl instead of at
the top of a post. I find that this actually does a half decent job of
everything - cakes, cookies, whathaveyou. These bowls have been
discontinued for quite some time and distributors have long since run out
of old stock. If you want one, you'll have to look for one in some sort of
flea market, be it online or local.

Anyway, I found a pdf of the Kenwood manual at some point, and the fine
print is that you can make up to 11 pounds of *batter but only 7 pounds of
bread dough. This revelation was a real letdown.

So, for my future mixing needs, I'm back to considering the possibility
of finding a beat up old N-50, and having a shop overhaul the works, bead
blast the exterior, and give it a new baked enamel paint job - or maybe
have it powder coated. My Bosch is gonna die eventually, I can feel it.

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1113404520.62570.rec.food.baking@ma il.otherwhen.com...
> Her Subj. wrote:
>
>>I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
>>whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
>>6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do not
>>make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs --not
>>in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
>>time.
>>
>>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>
> I'd look at the recommended maximum capacity of the mixers and see which
> can handle 3 loaves at a time. My old 4 1/2 quart KA can handle 2 without
> any real problems.
>
> However, it's time to bring up the old KitchenAid reliability question.
> Lots of people have complained that KA's just aren't what they used to be.
> I don't know, since I bought mine in the 1970's and it's still going
> strong.
>
> However, I do have a few observations. The KA manual warns you to make
> only a certain amount of dough at a time, and to rest the machine for a
> certain length of time after you have mixed the dough. (If memory serves,
> a 45 minute rest to cool off after making two batches of bread in my
> ancient KA 45.) If you don't follow that advice, you risk your machine's
> health.
> Why? Pretty simple really. My old Hobart 30 quart mixer had a less
> powerful motor than either of the mixers you are looking at. We ran it
> for hours on end. It's older than I am, and I don't like talking about
> how old I am.
>
> Why did it last, when so many more powerful, smaller, mixers have died?
>
> The commercial Hobart mixers have a single speed motor that always runs at
> its optimum speed. The speed of the mixing head is changed by using a
> transmission, much like a car has. You have to stop the mixer to change
> gears, and then start it again.
>
> The home KitchenAid has a variable speed motor. And, unfortunately, you
> have to knead dough at low speeds. Where the work demands high torque.
> And the motor has trouble delivering it. It's not KA being bad... it's
> the laws of physics.
>
> You might look at eBay for a used Hobart N-50 or 20 quart mixer, or for a
> knock-off of these product at professional supply houses. Or you might
> look at some of the other mixers on the retail market, such as the Bosch
> (which I'm not crazy about) or Electrolux Assistent (which I've heard good
> things about).
>
> Mike

Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem
4-15-05.
I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just take a
look at my experience.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com...iaster2005.htm
Dee

> Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem
> 4-15-05.
> I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just take
> a look at my experience.
> http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com...veyFamilyPage/
kitchenaiddiaster2005.htm
> Dee
>
I have not heard anything good about the newer Kitchen Aids. I have 2
Kenwood Chefs and I love them!

Helen

>Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem

>4-15-05.
>I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just
take a
>look at my experience.
>http://freepages.family.rootsw=ADeb....il=ADyPage/ki=
t=2E..

>Dee
Dee I am glad that your brought that matter out accompanied with
graphic pictures !
Its about time that folks here realize how flimsy is the construction
of that mixer
Several years back, I did have score of bad experience with Kitchen
Aide mixers,
It was common for gear oil to bleed while the machine was running while
mixing a dough; either a bread or a noodle dough.
..In another related experience my sponge batter being mixed failed to
aerate even after a quarter of an hour of high speed beating, I found
out that there were traces of gear oil that destroyed the foam. Another
experience was that the mixing speed change by itself for no reason.
I set it a medium, it goes to low and then to medium again .There are
other peculiarities that particular machine had ( I noticed) as if it
has a mind of its own<g>.
There are countless other bad experience that made me wary of such
mixers for continuous use in the kitchen.
If I had to use a kitchen aide even for cakes, After a series of 5
mixings I let it rest for an hour before I will use it again.
If I mix a bread dough I let it rest for a few hours before I do
another batch.
I never had that problem with the Hobart Mixers
That is why I preferred the heavy duty HobartN-50 and C-100 for my
small scale baking experiments (which satisfy my experiments that
require continuous repetitive trials). Even if it cost heaps compared
to the Kitchen Aide toy the Hobart machine is a an equipment to die
for<g>.
..=2EBased on that experience and a number of such mixers that conked down
in my baking trials over the years (which is contrary to the experience
of others in this newsgroup) made me reluctant to open heartedly
recommend such mixer for dough mixing unless you will use it rarely for
such purpose<g>
I was wondering if the higher capacity Kitchen aide mixer have that
problem that is common with their smaller sized models.
Besides those mixers are made in (Korea and never in the USA.
I never liked Korean made machines. Including their cars like
Hyundai,Daewoo and KIA are just like toy cars that won't last for
years like the Japanese made cars.
I won't even touch with 10 foot pole their Samsumg and LG brands of
home appliances nd electronic goods either.
Roy

On 24 Apr 2005 13:04:54 -0700
"Roy" > wrote:

> >Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem
>=20
> >4-15-05.
> >I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just
> take a
> >look at my experience.
> >http://freepages.family.rootsw=ADeb....amil=ADyPage/=
kit
> >...
>=20
> >Dee
> Dee I am glad that your brought that matter out accompanied with
> graphic pictures !
> Its about time that folks here realize how flimsy is the construction
> of that mixer

> I was wondering if the higher capacity Kitchen aide mixer have that
> problem that is common with their smaller sized models.
> Besides those mixers are made in (Korea and never in the USA.
> I never liked Korean made machines. Including their cars like
> Hyundai,Daewoo and KIA are just like toy cars that won't last for
> years like the Japanese made cars.
> I won't even touch with 10 foot pole their Samsumg and LG brands of
> home appliances nd electronic goods either.


Samsung in particular has noticeably cleaned up their act in recent
years. LG is better than they used to be.=20

I think the bigger issue with Kitchen Aide is the fact that they're a
division of a company that makes crappy dishwashers. When they were part of
Hobart they were a-ok. That was a long time ago.=20

Even with such claim that those Korean companies are improving their
reputation I am still not open in using thier equipments but I still
love their cuisine <g>.

Regarding kitchen aide mixers whatever changes the do with their
equipments I will never think of buying their toys again.
They should sell those stuff in the Toy 'R' Us shops along with Lego
blocks<g>.
Kids who want to be bakers and pasty chefs someday may ask their
parents (legitimately) for such educational playthings.

In article .com>, "Roy" > wrote:
>>Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem
>
>>4-15-05.
>>I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just
>take a
>>look at my experience.
>>http://freepages.family.rootsw=ADeb....il=ADyPage/ki=
>t=2E..
>
>>Dee
>Dee I am glad that your brought that matter out accompanied with
>graphic pictures !
>Its about time that folks here realize how flimsy is the construction
>of that mixer
> Several years back, I did have score of bad experience with Kitchen
>Aide mixers,
>It was common for gear oil to bleed while the machine was running while
>mixing a dough; either a bread or a noodle dough.
>..In another related experience my sponge batter being mixed failed to
>aerate even after a quarter of an hour of high speed beating, I found
>out that there were traces of gear oil that destroyed the foam. Another
>experience was that the mixing speed change by itself for no reason.
>I set it a medium, it goes to low and then to medium again .There are
>other peculiarities that particular machine had ( I noticed) as if it
>has a mind of its own<g>.
>There are countless other bad experience that made me wary of such
>mixers for continuous use in the kitchen.
>If I had to use a kitchen aide even for cakes, After a series of 5
>mixings I let it rest for an hour before I will use it again.
>If I mix a bread dough I let it rest for a few hours before I do
>another batch.
>I never had that problem with the Hobart Mixers
>That is why I preferred the heavy duty HobartN-50 and C-100 for my
>small scale baking experiments (which satisfy my experiments that
>require continuous repetitive trials). Even if it cost heaps compared
>to the Kitchen Aide toy the Hobart machine is a an equipment to die
>for<g>.
>..=2EBased on that experience and a number of such mixers that conked down
>in my baking trials over the years (which is contrary to the experience
>of others in this newsgroup) made me reluctant to open heartedly
>recommend such mixer for dough mixing unless you will use it rarely for
>such purpose<g>
>I was wondering if the higher capacity Kitchen aide mixer have that
>problem that is common with their smaller sized models.
>Besides those mixers are made in (Korea and never in the USA.
>I never liked Korean made machines. Including their cars like
>Hyundai,Daewoo and KIA are just like toy cars that won't last for
>years like the Japanese made cars.
>I won't even touch with 10 foot pole their Samsumg and LG brands of
>home appliances nd electronic goods either.
>Roy
>
I have always felt the same way about the cars and electronics but i have to
admit, Samsung has been making some very fine HDTV sets lately. They are
actually highly coveted compared to sony as of late.

> Samsung has been making some very fine HDTV sets lately. They are
>actually highly coveted compared to sony as of late.

Those Korean companies are trying to compensate the inferiority of
their product by riding the high technology band wagon, but that will
not remove the stigma from users who had bad experience with their
products previously.
I tell you, recently someone offered me a good price for latest
Samsung made Notebook computer and mobile phone but I bought the
higher priced HP Compaq and the Nokia respectively as these brands had
been my reliable workhorse for those devices .
People who are easily by good sales pitch from the aggressive
marketing technique of this companies ( like Samsung)are IMO not wise
buyers

Dee,

I am so sorry for the trouble you had on your latest KitchenAid mixer.
Have you contacted KitchenAid Customer Service? They can help! As a
representative of KitchenAid, I can assure you that the problem you are
showing here is extremely rare.

>I can assure you that the problem you are
>showing here is extremely rare.

I doubt about that... I have used a series of kitchen aide mixers
overseas , and had experienced what DEE had(with those made in Korea
model) and those machines( or preferably I call toys don't have the
robustness for breadmaking.
I have no problems with those' toys/ for cakes and cookies but for
bread....I would settle for HOBART C-100 for small scale
breadmaking..From my more than 30 years in baking I cannot remember
that such institutional equipment ever put me down.
But your toys?( the Kitchen aide mixers), better display it in Toys R
Us<g>..
Or just relabel it as good for household baking, specially for cakes
and cookies.but ( as a consolation)remind them that it can be used
also for occasional breadmaking done...... once in a blue moon<g>
I think its time that your company should ,re think ,re invent and
drastically modify your machines knowing that homebakers are doing
more bread than in previous years..Therefore if a housewife will buy a
mixer now ,there is more likelihood that it will be used for
breadmaking never for cakes and cookies as those cheap hand held mixer
can do those things satisfactorily.
If I am in the position of the hobbyist baker, and I don't have a good
mixer for bread at home, I will not invest my money on your lousy toys
but would use my hand for kneading my bread dough and would settle for
cheaper mixers for my other baking purposes such as those batter based
goods.

Roy

>on your lousy toys ...?

PS... Lousy machines I mean...

>I can assure you that the problem you are
>showing here is extremely rare.

I doubt about that... I have used a series of kitchen aide mixers
overseas , and had experienced what DEE had(with those made in Korea
model) and those machines( or preferably I call toys don't have the
robustness for breadmaking.
I have no problems with those' toys/ for cakes and cookies but for
bread....I would settle for HOBART C-100 for small scale
breadmaking..From my more than 30 years in baking I cannot remember
that such institutional equipment ever put me down.
But your toys?( the Kitchen aide mixers), better display it in Toys R
Us<g>..
Or just relabel it as good for household baking, specially for cakes
and cookies.but ( as a consolation)remind them that it can be used
also for occasional breadmaking done...... once in a blue moon<g>
I think its time that your company should ,re think ,re invent and
drastically modify your machines knowing that homebakers are doing
more bread than in previous years..Therefore if a housewife will buy a
mixer now ,there is more likelihood that it will be used for
breadmaking never for cakes and cookies as those cheap hand held mixer
can do those things satisfactorily.
If I am in the position of the hobbyist baker, and I don't have a good
mixer for bread at home, I will not invest my money on your lousy toys
but would use my hand for kneading my bread dough and would settle for
cheaper mixers for my other baking purposes such as those batter based
goods.

Roy

I'm not sure about all the differences between the two mixers but one
thing to look at is how the bowl is held by the mixer. In my mixer
which is a KA smaller one, the bown is held by a sort of screw in
fixture on the bottom. My mom's KA which is larger and circa 1975 has
two arms that come out around the bowl and hold it in. I think the
older model is superior as with tough dough sometimes my KA bowl pops
out of the fixture.

Good luck.

The Electrolux Assistent, DLX 2000, is one powerful machine, ideal for
big and small amounts of breads and heavy dough's, plus it has an extra
bowl for things like light batters and egg whites.
Kenwood good for cakes and sponges etc, KA I wouldn't even attempt bread
in mine, but it was a gift about 1 year ago.
I have all three, just my 2 cents worth............. qahtan



"Her Subj." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> 6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do not
> make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs --not
> in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> time.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>

Her Subj. wrote:
> I am in the market to buy a KitchenAid standing mixer, but am unsure
> whether I should go for the 5qt (450watts) professional model or the
> 6qt (525 or the newer 575 watt) professional model. I generally do
not
> make too many cookies, but I do a lot of yeast breads and doughs
--not
> in large quantities, but frequently enough dough for 2-3 loaves at a
> time.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Simple..... as you are making more doughs than batters get the more
powerful machine.

Lately I had seen some interesting comments on the new kitchen aid
mixers. The post of Cadiilac fan sound similarl to my experience
http://forum.kitchenaid.com/forums/t...?TOPIC_ID=1979