Today I baked two loaves of Ciabatta bread, but I did not get the
characteristic large holes that I have gotten in the past. I didn't
change anything this time; everything remained constant. Could it be
that where was something wrong with my stretch and fold technique? Did
I not stretch enough? If anyone can offer any advice on how to ensure
large holes, that would be great.

"Peter"
> Today I baked two loaves of Ciabatta bread, but I did not get the
> characteristic large holes that I have gotten in the past. I
didn't
> change anything this time; everything remained constant. Could it
be
> that where was something wrong with my stretch and fold
technique?

Can you tell me how you stretched your ciabatta? how long was it?
That's the mine, direct metod:
http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1105

Hello,

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icq 325215944

"gennarino" > wrote in message >.. .
> "Peter"
> > Today I baked two loaves of Ciabatta bread, but I did not get the
> > characteristic large holes that I have gotten in the past. I
> didn't
> > change anything this time; everything remained constant. Could it
> be
> > that where was something wrong with my stretch and fold
> technique?
>
> Can you tell me how you stretched your ciabatta? how long was it?
> That's the mine, direct metod:
> http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1105
>
> Hello,

My loaves weren't as long as yours; they're about a foot long each. I
stretched them about twice their length three times, but perhaps I did
not stretch them long enough in the final shaping.

"Peter"
> My loaves weren't as long as yours; they're about a foot long each. I
> stretched them about twice their length three times, but perhaps I did
> not stretch them long enough in the final shaping.

How much water have you used for your "ciabatta". I think is that the
problem.
In my recipe, there are 375 ml of water for 5oo gr of flour.
Hello. :-)
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icq 325215944

>Date: 6/8/2004 9:27 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"gennarino" > wrote in message
>. ..
>> "Peter"
>> > My loaves weren't as long as yours; they're about a foot long each. I
>> > stretched them about twice their length three times, but perhaps I did
>> > not stretch them long enough in the final shaping.
>>
>> How much water have you used for your "ciabatta". I think is that the
>> problem.
>> In my recipe, there are 375 ml of water for 5oo gr of flour.
>> Hello. :-)
>
>The biga calls for 2 1/2 cups (11.25 oz) flour; and 8 oz of water. The
>final doughs calls for the entire biga (3 cups, or 16 oz); 2 cups
>flour (9 oz); and another 8 or 9 oz of water. (Of course, salt and
>yeast were added). Overall, the percentage of ingredients is:
>biga: 178%
>flour: 100%
>water: 83.3%
>
>I used the same recipe for previous loaves, and the holes were quite
>large, but this batch lacked them. The flavor is better, though,
>because I added more salt, and the bread is as chewy as ever.
>
I've just done Amy Sherber's "Rustic Italian Loaf" - which makes three oaves.
As I couldn't fit all three on my baking stone, I was worried the last loaf
would ruin. Well, surprise, surprise - the last loaf, which I thought had
over-risen, had exactly the kind of beautiful crumb full of large holes that is
often elusive.

Still, sometimes the percernt of water is the problem You need to recalculate
your hydration rate to include the biga.

crumb

http://www.artisanbakers.com/crumb.html

bakers percentages

http://www.artisanbakers.com/percentage.html

"Static I"
> Still, sometimes the percernt of water is the problem You need to
recalculate
> your hydration rate to include the biga.

I also think so, as I have written in my post.

> http://www.artisanbakers.com/crumb.html
>
> bakers percentages
>
> http://www.artisanbakers.com/percentage.html

Very interesting links, thanks! :-)
ps. My friend jason, made a very beautiful ciabatta with poolish with a
recipe of www.theartisan.net. The foto is he
http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=734
Hello. :-)

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icq 325215944

>Date: 6/9/2004 1:44 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >

> My friend jason, made a very beautiful ciabatta with poolish with a
>recipe of www.theartisan.net.

If I had a friend baking like that. I wouldn't be bothering myself! Hell, if
there were even one artisan bakery in this town, I'd happily just concentrate
on the main dinner course.

"Static I"
> > My friend jason, made a very beautiful ciabatta with poolish
with a
> >recipe of www.theartisan.net.
>
> If I had a friend baking like that. I wouldn't be bothering
myself! Hell, if
> there were even one artisan bakery in this town, I'd happily
just concentrate
> on the main dinner course.

Sorry, but I havent' understood. I have written of my friend
because I had hopen that was a good recipe and an help. :-/
(sorry for my bad english)

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icq 325215944

"gennarino" > wrote in message >.. .
> "Static I"
> > > My friend jason, made a very beautiful ciabatta with poolish
> with a
> > >recipe of www.theartisan.net.
> >
> > If I had a friend baking like that. I wouldn't be bothering
> myself! Hell, if
> > there were even one artisan bakery in this town, I'd happily
> just concentrate
> > on the main dinner course.
>
> Sorry, but I havent' understood. I have written of my friend
> because I had hopen that was a good recipe and an help. :-/
> (sorry for my bad english)

Nice looking bread. I haven't made Ciabatta with a poolish yet, but I
think I will next time instead of the biga. The percentage of water
has never changed in each batch I baked, but maybe my stretching was
inadequate last time. The formula I've been using is Peter Reinhart's,
so I don't think it's flawed in any way. Perhaps I will also increase
the amount of water, along with stretching the dough further out and
maybe even adding an extra stretch-and-fold step. Do you, by chance,
have a good recipe for Pugliese or Pane de Champagne? I'm going to try
Peter Reinhart's versions, but I was wondering if you had a reliable
formula. The only thing I really find wrong with his formulas is that
they always need extra salt, at least 1/4 teaspoon. Other than that,
it's all about technique.

>gennarino"
>Date: 6/10/2004 4:53 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>

>Sorry, but I havent' understood. I have written of my friend
>because I had hopen that was a good recipe and an help. :-/
>(sorry for my bad english)

I'm afraid you misunderstood me - your friend's bread looks really beautiful.

I was just feeling a bit sorry for myself as I've moved from New York with
great bakeries everywhere to a place where, if you want good bread, you have to
learn to bake it yourself.

PS Your English is fine. Humor often throws people.

"Static I"
> I'm afraid you misunderstood me - your friend's bread looks
really beautiful.

I'm sorry: it's so. It' very difficult for me - I'm italian and I
never speak english with any one - undestand very well and I have
came to this ng for tryng to speak english better than now. :-)


> if you want good bread, you have to
> learn to bake it yourself.

If you can read italian, I can help you with many italian recipes.
I can try to translate them, if someone help me.

> PS Your English is fine. Humor often throws people.

Thank's. But I'll be very happy if you o someother tell me about my
errors. :-)
Hello.

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icq 325215944

"Peter"
>I've been using is Peter Reinhart's,

I don't know this recipe: can you tell me more about it? :-)

>Do you, by chance,
> have a good recipe for Pugliese or Pane de Champagne?

What do you mean with "pugliese bread"? I have two versions and I
think are both very good.

The first is a bread WITH semolina, there the photo:
http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ht=pane+semola

The second, is an only semola bread, "altamura style" (if you knov
this bread.
http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ish+grano+duro

If someone is interested about this recipes, i can write it in
italian, or I can try to translate it, if someone help me with
english.
Hello. :-)

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icq 325215944
I'm going to try
> Peter Reinhart's versions, but I was wondering if you had a
reliable
> formula. The only thing I really find wrong with his formulas is
that
> they always need extra salt, at least 1/4 teaspoon. Other than
that,
> it's all about technique.
>

"gennarino" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter"
> >I've been using is Peter Reinhart's,
>
> I don't know this recipe: can you tell me more about it? :-)
>
> >Do you, by chance,
> > have a good recipe for Pugliese or Pane de Champagne?
>
> What do you mean with "pugliese bread"? I have two versions and I
> think are both very good.
>
> The first is a bread WITH semolina, there the photo:
> http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ht=pane+semola
>
> The second, is an only semola bread, "altamura style" (if you knov
> this bread.
>
http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ish+grano+duro
>
> If someone is interested about this recipes, i can write it in
> italian, or I can try to translate it, if someone help me with
> english.
> Hello. :-)
>
> --
> http://www.gennarino.org
> Meglio muri' sazio 'ca campa' a dijuno
>
I think that the folks on alt.bread.recipes would find your posts more
interesting.
Cheers
Graham

"gennarino" > wrote in message >. ..
> "Peter"
> >I've been using is Peter Reinhart's,
>
> I don't know this recipe: can you tell me more about it? :-)
>
> >Do you, by chance,
> > have a good recipe for Pugliese or Pane de Champagne?
>
> What do you mean with "pugliese bread"? I have two versions and I
> think are both very good.
>
> The first is a bread WITH semolina, there the photo:
> http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ht=pane+semola
>
> The second, is an only semola bread, "altamura style" (if you knov
> this bread.
> http://www.gennarino.org/forum/viewt...ish+grano+duro
>
> If someone is interested about this recipes, i can write it in
> italian, or I can try to translate it, if someone help me with
> english.
> Hello. :-)
>
> --
> http://www.gennarino.org
> Meglio muri' sazio 'ca campa' a dijuno
>
> icq 325215944
> I'm going to try
> > Peter Reinhart's versions, but I was wondering if you had a
> reliable
> > formula. The only thing I really find wrong with his formulas is
> that
> > they always need extra salt, at least 1/4 teaspoon. Other than
> that,
> > it's all about technique.
> >

Well, I posted it earlier to show you the proportions and ratios of
ingredients. Here it is again.

The biga calls for 2 1/2 cups (11.25 oz) flour; and 8 oz of water. The
final doughs calls for the entire biga (3 cups, or 16 oz); 2 cups
flour (9 oz); and another 8 or 9 oz of water. (Of course, salt and
yeast were added). Overall, the percentage of ingredients is:
biga: 178%
flour: 100%
water: 83.3%

I think my hydration level is quite adequate. I have some Ciabatta
fermenting right now; I stretched and folded it once already, and I am
about to stretch and fold it again (once it's done fermenting), then
I'll let it ferment for two hours. After that, I will separate the
dough; stretch and fold it; let it rest for 45 minutes; then I will
hearth bake it. I added extra water this time to the final dough, so
hopefully, that will make a difference.

"Peter"
>
> Well, I posted it earlier to show you the proportions and ratios
of
> ingredients. Here it is again.

Sorry, I have seen your post but I never did ciabatta with biga
but only with poolish. And I have seen that Giorilli too (one of
the most famous italian bakers) use poolish.
Sorry again. :-/

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"graham"
> I think that the folks on alt.bread.recipes would find your posts
more
> interesting.

Thanks. I'll soon go to read the post of this ng.

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