I have a few questions if I may.

I obtained my Great Grandmothers recipe for a meringue cake, and I wish to
modify it or at least understand it.

Allow me to put the recipe on here and then critique it.

1 Cup egg whites
Beat until firm
Add 2 cups sugar
Add 1 TBLS of Vanilla
Add 1 TBLS of Vinegar
Put into butter coated pans and cook like cake at 350F for one hour. Layer
with whip cream just like a cake, chill and serve with sweetened
strawberries or another fruit.

I LOVE this recipe, but left overs weep a lot in the refrigerator and I wish
to obtain a thicker cake, it shrinks and doesn't have a great amount of cake
afterwards.

Here are some questions I pose for educational discussion.

1. I tried Cream of Tartar, I used one to one ratio to Vinegar. The cake
tasted like a dry wine! Acid taste and feeling. I reduced to 1 teaspoon
instead of the tablespoon and it seemed to be the same as the vinegar. Is
the ratio for eggs less with Cream of Tartar? I figured it was about 1/8
tsp to one egg white.

2. I beat the eggs till firm and dry and let them warm up to room
temperature, not using any plastic and everything is clean. But why the
shrinkage?

3. I powdered my sugar and also used granular sugar. Both had the same
results. I measured out the two cups and THEN powdered it and came out with
about 3-3/4 cups. Is this the correct way to do this?

4. What will increasing or decreasing the sugar amounts do to a meringue?
This is a real mind bender to me.

5. How can I double the amount of volume of the cake? Would doubling the
portions per pan do this or will it just shrink anyway?

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm looking for scientific reasons for things that
explain the reasons for things.

BTW, why no salt in this recipe? Doesn't salt do something chemically?

Thanks again

Rich

"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
...
> I have a few questions if I may.
>
> I obtained my Great Grandmothers recipe for a meringue cake, and I wish to
> modify it or at least understand it.
>
> Allow me to put the recipe on here and then critique it.
>
> 1 Cup egg whites
> Beat until firm
> Add 2 cups sugar
> Add 1 TBLS of Vanilla
> Add 1 TBLS of Vinegar
> Put into butter coated pans and cook like cake at 350F for one hour. Layer
> with whip cream just like a cake, chill and serve with sweetened
> strawberries or another fruit.
>
> I LOVE this recipe, but left overs weep a lot in the refrigerator and I
wish
> to obtain a thicker cake, it shrinks and doesn't have a great amount of
cake
> afterwards.
>
> Here are some questions I pose for educational discussion.
>
> 1. I tried Cream of Tartar, I used one to one ratio to Vinegar. The cake
> tasted like a dry wine! Acid taste and feeling. I reduced to 1 teaspoon
> instead of the tablespoon and it seemed to be the same as the vinegar. Is
> the ratio for eggs less with Cream of Tartar? I figured it was about 1/8
> tsp to one egg white.
>
> 2. I beat the eggs till firm and dry and let them warm up to room
> temperature, not using any plastic and everything is clean. But why the
> shrinkage?
>
> 3. I powdered my sugar and also used granular sugar. Both had the same
> results. I measured out the two cups and THEN powdered it and came out
with
> about 3-3/4 cups. Is this the correct way to do this?
>
> 4. What will increasing or decreasing the sugar amounts do to a meringue?
> This is a real mind bender to me.
>
> 5. How can I double the amount of volume of the cake? Would doubling the
> portions per pan do this or will it just shrink anyway?
>
> Thanks everyone, I guess I'm looking for scientific reasons for things
that
> explain the reasons for things.
>
> BTW, why no salt in this recipe? Doesn't salt do something chemically?
>
> Thanks again

I think there is a problem with the method listed.

First, I would separate the eggs while they are cold and make sure that you
avoid even a speck of yolk. Use very clean glass or stainless equipment. I
like to warm the whites to get maximum volume. You can do this by very
carefully heating them on the stove while whisking or over a pan or
simmering water. I would use about a teaspoon of cream of tartar. I start
by whisking by hand over heat until a foam forms and then move to the stand
mixer. You can do it all by hand, but it is hard to get good volume unless
you are in good shape.

After the soft foam forms, start very slowly adding the sugar - a couple
tablespoons at a time. Continue whisking until the sugar is dissolved and
then add more. Finally, add the vanilla. To get a stable foam, you can't
add the sugar too soon or too fast.

After all the sugar is incorporated you should have a shiny foam that forms
a peak that doesn't curl-over. If you continue to beat, the foam will lose
its shine and the volume will decrease. It will also tend to weep after it
is baked.

To review:
1: Separate the eggs avoiding even a speck of yolk
2: Use only immaculately clean glass or stainless equipment.
3: Warm the whites with the cream of tartar, beating to a soft foam
4: Move to a stand mixer on a medium high speed, or continue by hand adding
the sugar very slowly
5: Add the vanilla
6: Stop beating when the foam is glossy and stiff peaks form. It is better
to under-beat when in doubt.

A weak foam will weep liquid underneath and form beads on the surface. Warm
white achieve a larger volume. Over-beating wakens the foam and reduces
volume. Adding the sugar too soon or too fast weakens the foam.

I would also think that the foam would go sticky in the refrigerator. It
seems like something that needs to be assembled just before it is eaten.

You can only get a set volume from the eggs. Forget about doubling it. You
can only dissolve a set amount of sugar in the whites. One cup seems about
right. I wouldn't add more. The acid- either vinegar or cream of tartar,
is an aid to stabilize the foam. You don't strictly need it, but it is an
insurance policy. An alternative would be to use a copper bowl. You can add
a bit of salt for flavor, but too much salt will destabilize the foam.I
wouldn't add more than 1/4 teaspoon and only if you think you really need
it - and only after you have made the cake a few times successfully without
the salt.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
> ...
>> I have a few questions if I may.
>>
>> I obtained my Great Grandmothers recipe for a meringue cake, and I wish
>> to
>> modify it or at least understand it.
>>
>> Allow me to put the recipe on here and then critique it.
>>
>> 1 Cup egg whites
>> Beat until firm
>> Add 2 cups sugar
>> Add 1 TBLS of Vanilla
>> Add 1 TBLS of Vinegar
>> Put into butter coated pans and cook like cake at 350F for one hour.
>> Layer
>> with whip cream just like a cake, chill and serve with sweetened
>> strawberries or another fruit.
>>
>> I LOVE this recipe, but left overs weep a lot in the refrigerator and I
> wish
>> to obtain a thicker cake, it shrinks and doesn't have a great amount of
> cake
>> afterwards.
>>
>> Here are some questions I pose for educational discussion.
>>
>> 1. I tried Cream of Tartar, I used one to one ratio to Vinegar. The cake
>> tasted like a dry wine! Acid taste and feeling. I reduced to 1 teaspoon
>> instead of the tablespoon and it seemed to be the same as the vinegar. Is
>> the ratio for eggs less with Cream of Tartar? I figured it was about 1/8
>> tsp to one egg white.
>>
>> 2. I beat the eggs till firm and dry and let them warm up to room
>> temperature, not using any plastic and everything is clean. But why the
>> shrinkage?
>>
>> 3. I powdered my sugar and also used granular sugar. Both had the same
>> results. I measured out the two cups and THEN powdered it and came out
> with
>> about 3-3/4 cups. Is this the correct way to do this?
>>
>> 4. What will increasing or decreasing the sugar amounts do to a meringue?
>> This is a real mind bender to me.
>>
>> 5. How can I double the amount of volume of the cake? Would doubling the
>> portions per pan do this or will it just shrink anyway?
>>
>> Thanks everyone, I guess I'm looking for scientific reasons for things
> that
>> explain the reasons for things.
>>
>> BTW, why no salt in this recipe? Doesn't salt do something chemically?
>>
>> Thanks again
>
> I think there is a problem with the method listed.
>
> First, I would separate the eggs while they are cold and make sure that
> you
> avoid even a speck of yolk. Use very clean glass or stainless equipment.
> I
> like to warm the whites to get maximum volume. You can do this by very
> carefully heating them on the stove while whisking or over a pan or
> simmering water. I would use about a teaspoon of cream of tartar. I
> start
> by whisking by hand over heat until a foam forms and then move to the
> stand
> mixer. You can do it all by hand, but it is hard to get good volume
> unless
> you are in good shape.
>
> After the soft foam forms, start very slowly adding the sugar - a couple
> tablespoons at a time. Continue whisking until the sugar is dissolved and
> then add more. Finally, add the vanilla. To get a stable foam, you can't
> add the sugar too soon or too fast.
>
> After all the sugar is incorporated you should have a shiny foam that
> forms
> a peak that doesn't curl-over. If you continue to beat, the foam will
> lose
> its shine and the volume will decrease. It will also tend to weep after
> it
> is baked.
>
> To review:
> 1: Separate the eggs avoiding even a speck of yolk
> 2: Use only immaculately clean glass or stainless equipment.
> 3: Warm the whites with the cream of tartar, beating to a soft foam
> 4: Move to a stand mixer on a medium high speed, or continue by hand
> adding
> the sugar very slowly
> 5: Add the vanilla
> 6: Stop beating when the foam is glossy and stiff peaks form. It is
> better
> to under-beat when in doubt.
>
> A weak foam will weep liquid underneath and form beads on the surface.
> Warm
> white achieve a larger volume. Over-beating wakens the foam and reduces
> volume. Adding the sugar too soon or too fast weakens the foam.
>
> I would also think that the foam would go sticky in the refrigerator. It
> seems like something that needs to be assembled just before it is eaten.
>
> You can only get a set volume from the eggs. Forget about doubling it.
> You
> can only dissolve a set amount of sugar in the whites. One cup seems
> about
> right. I wouldn't add more. The acid- either vinegar or cream of tartar,
> is an aid to stabilize the foam. You don't strictly need it, but it is an
> insurance policy. An alternative would be to use a copper bowl. You can
> add
> a bit of salt for flavor, but too much salt will destabilize the foam.I
> wouldn't add more than 1/4 teaspoon and only if you think you really need
> it - and only after you have made the cake a few times successfully
> without
> the salt.

I'm continually amazed at the rules concerning egg whites!

These are very helpful and informative suggestions, I will try the whipping
over the stove but its a flat electric type and I don't want to scratch it
:-)

We also have the kichenaid mixer, I wonder if there are copper bowls for
that? Also, maybe its me, but I honestly think the egg whites beeted better
with the old two beater type table blender my mother and grandmother use to
use. I don't think I get the volume with that kitchenaid with one beater.
Any others with a comment concerning this?

Thanks Vox for the great response.

Rich

"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
...
>
> We also have the kichenaid mixer, I wonder if there are copper bowls for
> that? Also, maybe its me, but I honestly think the egg whites beeted
better
> with the old two beater type table blender my mother and grandmother use
to
> use. I don't think I get the volume with that kitchenaid with one beater.
> Any others with a comment concerning this?
>
> Thanks Vox for the great response.

There are copper bowl inserts available for the KA stand mixer. I get such
great results just using the SS bowl and whisk that I can't see buying the
copper insert. As I said, I put the whites and cream of tartar (or lemon
juice or vinegar) in the bowl, set it over the flame, and whisk like mad
until a soft foam has formed and the eggs are very warm. I move the bowl to
the mixer, turn it to medium high, and start adding the sugar. A stiff foam
forms in a couple of minutes.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> We also have the kichenaid mixer, I wonder if there are copper bowls for
>> that? Also, maybe its me, but I honestly think the egg whites beeted
> better
>> with the old two beater type table blender my mother and grandmother use
> to
>> use. I don't think I get the volume with that kitchenaid with one beater.
>> Any others with a comment concerning this?
>>
>> Thanks Vox for the great response.
>
> There are copper bowl inserts available for the KA stand mixer. I get
> such
> great results just using the SS bowl and whisk that I can't see buying the
> copper insert. As I said, I put the whites and cream of tartar (or lemon
> juice or vinegar) in the bowl, set it over the flame, and whisk like mad
> until a soft foam has formed and the eggs are very warm. I move the bowl
> to
> the mixer, turn it to medium high, and start adding the sugar. A stiff
> foam
> forms in a couple of minutes.

Thanks for the more detailed information, Vox, I will certainly try this the
next time I make this pudding~

I'm Gratefull that you share your experience with us.
Rich
>
>