Sorry if these are dumb questions...

1. Is it ok to leave a cake that is decorated with an icing made from
butter and cream cheese, powdered sugar and water (or milk) out on the
counter overnight, or should it be refridgerated? If I need to keep it
in the fridge, will the colors of different icing run or bleed into
each other? Any precautions to take?

2. My Spice Islands brand "pure vanilla extract" looks cloudy. I
tasted it and mainly taste alcohol - should I just toss it and start
anew? Is there a way to use real vanilla bean to flavor the icing
(above)?

TIA,
-L.

"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Sorry if these are dumb questions...
>
> 1. Is it ok to leave a cake that is decorated with an icing made from
> butter and cream cheese, powdered sugar and water (or milk) out on the
> counter overnight, or should it be refridgerated? If I need to keep it
> in the fridge, will the colors of different icing run or bleed into
> each other? Any precautions to take?
>
> 2. My Spice Islands brand "pure vanilla extract" looks cloudy. I
> tasted it and mainly taste alcohol - should I just toss it and start
> anew? Is there a way to use real vanilla bean to flavor the icing
> (above)?


Ideally the cream cheese frosting should be refrigerated. It is unlikely
that the colors will run more in the refrigerator than if left at room
temperature. That said, there is so much sugar in the frosting that it is
unlikely that it will spoil if left out over night.

When in doubt it is always best to discard food products. But, since there
is so much alcohol in vanilla extract, it is unlikely to make you sick. One
way to flavor the frosting would be to use vanilla powder. I don't know of
any way to flavor it with the bean except to put a whole bean in the sugar
and let it sit for an extended time.

Vox Humana wrote:
>
> Ideally the cream cheese frosting should be refrigerated. It is unlikely
> that the colors will run more in the refrigerator than if left at room
> temperature. That said, there is so much sugar in the frosting that it is
> unlikely that it will spoil if left out over night.
>
> When in doubt it is always best to discard food products. But, since there
> is so much alcohol in vanilla extract, it is unlikely to make you sick. One
> way to flavor the frosting would be to use vanilla powder. I don't know of
> any way to flavor it with the bean except to put a whole bean in the sugar
> and let it sit for an extended time.

Thanks - will take everything under advisement.
-L.

at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:00 GMT in <1137058380.479607.320550
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, (-L.) wrote :

>Sorry if these are dumb questions...
>
>1. Is it ok to leave a cake that is decorated with an icing made from
>butter and cream cheese, powdered sugar and water (or milk) out on the
>counter overnight, or should it be refridgerated? If I need to keep it
>in the fridge, will the colors of different icing run or bleed into
>each other? Any precautions to take?

As Vox said, best to refrigerate, although left out on the counter it
shouldn't immediately spoil. However, one thing I thought I would add is
that if the cake is to be transported a fair distance, especially by car,
you definitely should refrigerate because the icing will soften if left out
and could sag or run during transit if unchilled. Furthermore, soft icing
has a notorious habit of sticking to boxes, shirts, knives, anything that
gets in contact with it.

Very minor terminological point: if the covering is fairly soft and fluffy,
then technically it should be called a "frosting", where an "icing" would
be a harder, shell-like covering.

>2. My Spice Islands brand "pure vanilla extract" looks cloudy. I
>tasted it and mainly taste alcohol - should I just toss it and start
>anew? Is there a way to use real vanilla bean to flavor the icing
>(above)?

Absolutely. Using the milk base, what you do is to scald the milk, split
the vanilla bean and scrape into the milk, then steep both scrapings and
bean in the milk for about 10 minutes or so - long enough for all the
little seeds to become totally separate instead of clumping. Then, chill
the mix. When chilled, fish out the bean and scrape off clinging milk and
bits back into the milk, and discard the bean. Then use the milk as usual.
Your icing will end up with inviting black spots in it indicating the use
of real vanilla.

If you have to have a pure white icing (e.g. for a wedding cake), then
steep the bean for longer - about 30 minutes, and at the point where you're
discarding the bean, run the mixture through a fine cheesecloth (coarse
won't do) or very fine sieve. This should get rid of the seeds, if you
absolutely must not have them in there.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Alex Rast wrote:
>
> As Vox said, best to refrigerate, although left out on the counter it
> shouldn't immediately spoil. However, one thing I thought I would add is
> that if the cake is to be transported a fair distance, especially by car,
> you definitely should refrigerate because the icing will soften if left out
> and could sag or run during transit if unchilled. Furthermore, soft icing
> has a notorious habit of sticking to boxes, shirts, knives, anything that
> gets in contact with it.
>
> Very minor terminological point: if the covering is fairly soft and fluffy,
> then technically it should be called a "frosting", where an "icing" would
> be a harder, shell-like covering.

LOL...my Midwestern upbringing is coming out. My Mom always called it
icing no matter what it was. Thanks for the clarification.

>
> >2. My Spice Islands brand "pure vanilla extract" looks cloudy. I
> >tasted it and mainly taste alcohol - should I just toss it and start
> >anew? Is there a way to use real vanilla bean to flavor the icing
> >(above)?
>
> Absolutely. Using the milk base, what you do is to scald the milk, split
> the vanilla bean and scrape into the milk, then steep both scrapings and
> bean in the milk for about 10 minutes or so - long enough for all the
> little seeds to become totally separate instead of clumping. Then, chill
> the mix. When chilled, fish out the bean and scrape off clinging milk and
> bits back into the milk, and discard the bean. Then use the milk as usual.
> Your icing will end up with inviting black spots in it indicating the use
> of real vanilla.
>
> If you have to have a pure white icing (e.g. for a wedding cake), then
> steep the bean for longer - about 30 minutes, and at the point where you're
> discarding the bean, run the mixture through a fine cheesecloth (coarse
> won't do) or very fine sieve. This should get rid of the seeds, if you
> absolutely must not have them in there.

Thanks for the info. I will file it away for later use. This frosting
will be colored so flecks aren't an issue.

Thanks to all who replied. I think I willl stick the cake in the
fridge overnight and then take it out in the AM. The party is at noon,
and I am making the cake the night before.

-L.

(-L.)WROTE:
Sorry if these are dumb questions...
1. Is it ok to leave a cake that is decorated with an icing made from
butter and cream cheese, powdered sugar and water (or milk) out on the
counter overnight, or should it be refridgerated? If I need to keep it
in the fridge, will the colors of different icing run or bleed into each
other? Any precautions to take?
2. My Spice Islands brand "pure vanilla extract" looks cloudy. I tasted
it and mainly taste alcohol - should I just toss it and start anew? Is
there a way to use real vanilla bean to flavor the icing (above)?
TIA,------------------------------------------------
My Response: No matter how much I get flamed by this reply & I do get
flamed I go by what an retired food inspector through our local board of
health taught us in the food safety & handling course I took at a top
rated community college in culinary.
ANY food item with whole milk , butter,& eggs are to be stored in the
fridge PERIOD.
If any thing this gives me peace of mind & steers me away from these
products in grocery stores with listed ingredients stored on open non
refrigerated shelves.

I concur......HACCP is always in the mind of a competent food
processor...
Indeed past experience confirm that you can ge the dairy rich
decorated cake and when done just allowing it to stand in ambient
overnight....but food safety rules must prevail specially if we are
producing food items for other peoples consumption.

Food items that have a a high water activity should be kept under
refrigeration.

chembake wrote:

> I concur......HACCP is always in the mind of a competent food
> processor...

Agreed, sorta. A bit too extreme for most baked goods.

> Indeed past experience confirm that you can ge the dairy rich
> decorated cake and when done just allowing it to stand in ambient
> overnight...

I don't understand this.

> but food safety rules must prevail specially if we are
> producing food items for other peoples consumption.

Absolutely. But they must be applied knowledgeably.

> Food items that have a high water activity should be kept under
> refrigeration.

Too sweeping a statement. Pickles are a good example of foods with high
water activity that can safely be stored at room temp. The combinations
of pH, water activity, preservatives and processing are the determinants.

Pastorio

> Indeed past experience confirm that you can ge the dairy rich
> decorated cake and when done just allowing it to stand in ambient
> overnight...


..>I don't understand this
That is reasonable
You had never been a baker but presumably just academician
......therrefore you never had first hand experience in cases where
occasional violations of HACCP rules works...

>Pickles are a good example of foods with high
..>water activity that can safely be stored at room temp. The
combinations
..>of pH, water activity, preservatives and processing are the
determinants.

Pickes?....bakers and pastry cooks don't deal with such items.... .
Normally bakers don't add any preservatives in cake icings nor have to
use most of the time high processing temperatures ..( for example in
boiled icings)
Its common for these tradesmen to make icings at room temperatures...
In addition to that pH is not an issue with cake frosting materials
either


...

chembake wrote:

>> Indeed past experience confirm that you can ge the dairy rich
>> decorated cake and when done just allowing it to stand in
>> ambient overnight...
>
>>I don't understand this

> That is reasonable You had never been a baker but presumably just
> academician

I'm a chef with 30 years of experience, including pastry. I
meant I didn't understand the sentence.

> .....therrefore you never had first hand experience in cases where
> occasional violations of HACCP rules works...

I had my first restaurant job in the early 1950's when I was in grammar
school. I started my first restaurant in 1974 and have owned several
others since; I've run country club and resort operations, and consulted
about all phases of foodservice. I'm also a published food writer.

>> Pickles are a good example of foods with high water activity that
>> can safely be stored at room temp. The combinations of pH, water
>> activity, preservatives and processing are the determinants.
>
> Pickes?....bakers and pastry cooks don't deal with such items.... .

Understood. But for room temp storage, it's not just water activity that
matters, even for pastry. Cheeses and eggs provide opportunity for
bacterial and mold growths, for example.

Fruit curd fillings generally have a reasonably low water activity and
low pH, but molds can grow on them rather quickly.

> Normally bakers don't add any preservatives in cake icings nor have
> to use most of the time high processing temperatures..(for example
> in boiled icings) Its common for these tradesmen to make icings at
> room temperatures... In addition to that pH is not an issue with cake
> frosting materials either

I agree with all these clarifications, but the simple rule of just being
concerned with water activity is misleading. Filled breads and pastries
use other foods that can support both spoilage and pathogenic bacteria
and molds. I'm saying that we should be careful with all of them.

Pastorio

I would add following as much as possible HACCP even when you don't
have the health dept looking at you. Although I seem to have been
blessed with an iron stomach many are not. At particular risk are folks
with compromised immune systems. It has disappeared from the news but
HIV is very much continuing to spread and a large number of people have
hepititis C. I have a friend with Lupus and another who had an organ
transplant and several who are on chemo. Many times these conditions
are unknow to others so it's helpful to me to try to assume someone in
a group I'm providing food for may have a compromised immune system and
act accordingly.
-Marylouise

-L. wrote:

> 1. Is it ok to leave a cake that is decorated with an icing made from
> butter and cream cheese, powdered sugar and water (or milk) out on the
> counter overnight, or should it be refridgerated?