Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> Pastorio

Mainly lurker. I am 42, live in Portland, OR, am a SAHM with a
wonderful son who is 2. I cook three meals a day for our family and
bake mainly desserts for parties and my husband's office (requests). I
like to bake and haven't done as much of it in the last couple of years
but since DS is becoming more independant, I can spend time baking
again.

We are considering opening a business as an outlet for my cakes and
desserts. So a lot of what I am doing now is experimental.

-L.

-L. wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>>
>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>>Pastorio
>
> Mainly lurker. I am 42, live in Portland, OR, am a SAHM with a
> wonderful son who is 2. I cook three meals a day for our family and
> bake mainly desserts for parties and my husband's office (requests). I
> like to bake and haven't done as much of it in the last couple of years
> but since DS is becoming more independant, I can spend time baking
> again.
>
> We are considering opening a business as an outlet for my cakes and
> desserts. So a lot of what I am doing now is experimental.

My oldest granddaughter has decided to do wedding cakes and other
celebratory baking and asked me a lot of questions about getting
started. My first bit of advice was to tell her to get a job in a place
that does something like what she wants to do. Otherwise, it's guessing.
And a good way to lose a lot of money. She's been to culinary school and
has a notion about commercial versus domestic cooking, but she asked me
a lot of the wrong questions. Premature stuff - what kind of pans should
she buy, should she offer delivery (!), how much staff should she
have...? We talked about kitchens, storage, budgeting, inventory,
pricing, staffing, etc. I deliberately befuddled her because, while it's
good to be upbeat and energetic, it leads to a false sense of security.
I tried to give her a sense of what she doesn't know and needs to research.

Check the health department laws where you are before doing any baking
for money. Check local prices and charge more, not less. You're making a
premium product and people should pay for it. You can't be bashful about
money. I know about all these pitfalls because I've fallen into them at
one time or another.

Good luck with it.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> My oldest granddaughter has decided to do wedding cakes and other
> celebratory baking and asked me a lot of questions about getting
> started. My first bit of advice was to tell her to get a job in a place
> that does something like what she wants to do. Otherwise, it's guessing.
> And a good way to lose a lot of money. She's been to culinary school and
> has a notion about commercial versus domestic cooking, but she asked me
> a lot of the wrong questions. Premature stuff - what kind of pans should
> she buy, should she offer delivery (!), how much staff should she
> have...? We talked about kitchens, storage, budgeting, inventory,
> pricing, staffing, etc. I deliberately befuddled her because, while it's
> good to be upbeat and energetic, it leads to a false sense of security.
> I tried to give her a sense of what she doesn't know and needs to research.
>
> Check the health department laws where you are before doing any baking
> for money. Check local prices and charge more, not less. You're making a
> premium product and people should pay for it. You can't be bashful about
> money. I know about all these pitfalls because I've fallen into them at
> one time or another.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
> Pastorio

Thanks, Bob. It's pretty much a pipedream now. I may initially just
sell to my friend who has a restaurant downtown.
-L.

On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

"Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
(which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).

I often bake sweet things as well, mostly for special occasions.
Cakes, pies, cookies, pastries, etc. I'm better at bread, but my
other baked goods are improving.

I'm looking for anything that can help me get that extra 1% in my
results, plus to share what knowledge I have with others. If someday
I become independently wealthy, I may open a bakery/restaurant, but I
would hate to be in that business if I had to depend on it for income.

I just started reading rec.food.baking again recently, though I have
popped my head in here from time to time in the past.

--
Randall

Randall Nortman wrote:
> On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>>
>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
>
> "Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
> part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
> whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
> white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
> various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
> (which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
> copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
does your injections system work? Hardware?

> I often bake sweet things as well, mostly for special occasions.
> Cakes, pies, cookies, pastries, etc. I'm better at bread, but my
> other baked goods are improving.
>
> I'm looking for anything that can help me get that extra 1% in my
> results, plus to share what knowledge I have with others. If someday
> I become independently wealthy, I may open a bakery/restaurant, but I
> would hate to be in that business if I had to depend on it for income.

<LOL> The industry joke is: "Do you know how to have a small fortune in
foodservice? Start with a large one."

Pastorio

On 2006-01-19, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> Randall Nortman wrote:
>> On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>>
>>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
>>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
>>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>>>
>>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>>
>>
>> "Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
>> part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
>> whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
>> white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
>> various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
>> (which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
>> copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).
>
> I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
> does your injections system work? Hardware?
[...]

The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
heat-resistant tubing of some sort. You need to tap a pipe fitting
into the pressure cooker lid and find a way into the oven -- all
residential ovens are vented in some way, and that's the first place
to look. In my case, the vent is underneath one of the back burners.
It's a tight squeeze, but I managed to route some copper tubing
through there and into the oven. My current problem is that copper
tubing is actually only rated for up to 400F -- it doesn't melt when
it gets hotter, but the end that goes into the oven is getting quite
corroded now. I am going to replace it with a short length of
stainless steel tubing (expensive, but takes high heat and doesn't
corrode) for the part that's actually in the oven, and then use a
length of high-temp silicone (food-safe, plasticizer-free, rated up to
500F) to connect the boiler to the stainless tubing. The stainless
steel will then stay in my oven all the time, even when I'm not doing
bread, which will be much more convenient than my current system,
which involves installing and removing the copper tubing every time I
bake bread. When I finish this project, perhaps I'll post pictures
and details.

The final results depend on the strength of the stovetop burners. My
stovetop is cheap electric, and can't boil water as fast as I'd like.
I don't get the intense burst of steam that you'd get in a commercial
combi oven, but I do get much more than tricks like setting a pan of
water in the oven. I can keep the steam going as long as I'd like
(usually 10-15 minutes, until oven spring is totally done), and it
does get plenty steamy in there -- I can see steam rising from the
gaps in the oven door seal (remember, this is a cheap 25-year old
oven) almost immediately after I close the door, and I definitely need
to stand back for a moment when I open the door with the steam on.
The bread also cooks faster, presumably because wet air transfers heat
to the dough more quickly than dry air, or maybe because the air
movement created by the jet of steam coming out of the end of the pipe
turns my oven into a pseudo-convection oven.

Please note that all of the above is potentially dangerous and will
void any warranties within 100 yards. I'm not advising anybody to do
it.

When I have a chance to build or renovate a new kitchen, I've got my
eye on the Gaggenau residential combi oven. Expensive, but much
better than this mad scientist contraption I've currently got going.
I think KitchenAid just came out with one as well.

--
Randall

"Randall Nortman" > wrote in message
ink.net...


> The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
> old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
> steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
> alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
> forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
> stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
> heat-resistant tubing of some sort.
>
My oven rusted and warped from trying to generate steam for baking. I just
tossed a few ice cubes into the oven when I put the dough in. I should have
just preheated a cast iron skillet and put the ice in that. I still think
that the interior would have rusted, but that may have prevented the
warping.

http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/steam/


isabella


"Randall Nortman" > schreef in bericht
ink.net...
> On 2006-01-19, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> > Randall Nortman wrote:
> >> On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a
guy
> >>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> >>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
> >>>
> >>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
> >> part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
> >> whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
> >> white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
> >> various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
> >> (which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
> >> copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).
> >
> > I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
> > does your injections system work? Hardware?
> [...]
>
> The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
> old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
> steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
> alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
> forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
> stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
> heat-resistant tubing of some sort. You need to tap a pipe fitting
> into the pressure cooker lid and find a way into the oven -- all
> residential ovens are vented in some way, and that's the first place
> to look. In my case, the vent is underneath one of the back burners.
> It's a tight squeeze, but I managed to route some copper tubing
> through there and into the oven. My current problem is that copper
> tubing is actually only rated for up to 400F -- it doesn't melt when
> it gets hotter, but the end that goes into the oven is getting quite
> corroded now. I am going to replace it with a short length of
> stainless steel tubing (expensive, but takes high heat and doesn't
> corrode) for the part that's actually in the oven, and then use a
> length of high-temp silicone (food-safe, plasticizer-free, rated up to
> 500F) to connect the boiler to the stainless tubing. The stainless
> steel will then stay in my oven all the time, even when I'm not doing
> bread, which will be much more convenient than my current system,
> which involves installing and removing the copper tubing every time I
> bake bread. When I finish this project, perhaps I'll post pictures
> and details.
>
> The final results depend on the strength of the stovetop burners. My
> stovetop is cheap electric, and can't boil water as fast as I'd like.
> I don't get the intense burst of steam that you'd get in a commercial
> combi oven, but I do get much more than tricks like setting a pan of
> water in the oven. I can keep the steam going as long as I'd like
> (usually 10-15 minutes, until oven spring is totally done), and it
> does get plenty steamy in there -- I can see steam rising from the
> gaps in the oven door seal (remember, this is a cheap 25-year old
> oven) almost immediately after I close the door, and I definitely need
> to stand back for a moment when I open the door with the steam on.
> The bread also cooks faster, presumably because wet air transfers heat
> to the dough more quickly than dry air, or maybe because the air
> movement created by the jet of steam coming out of the end of the pipe
> turns my oven into a pseudo-convection oven.
>
> Please note that all of the above is potentially dangerous and will
> void any warranties within 100 yards. I'm not advising anybody to do
> it.
>
> When I have a chance to build or renovate a new kitchen, I've got my
> eye on the Gaggenau residential combi oven. Expensive, but much
> better than this mad scientist contraption I've currently got going.
> I think KitchenAid just came out with one as well.
>
> --
> Randall

"Randall Nortman" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> On 2006-01-19, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> > Randall Nortman wrote:
> >> On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a
guy
> >>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> >>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
> >>>
> >>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
> >> part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
> >> whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
> >> white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
> >> various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
> >> (which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
> >> copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).
> >
> > I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
> > does your injections system work? Hardware?
> [...]
>
> The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
> old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
> steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
> alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
> forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
> stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
> heat-resistant tubing of some sort. You need to tap a pipe fitting
> into the pressure cooker lid and find a way into the oven -- all
> residential ovens are vented in some way, and that's the first place
> to look. In my case, the vent is underneath one of the back burners.
> It's a tight squeeze, but I managed to route some copper tubing
> through there and into the oven. My current problem is that copper
> tubing is actually only rated for up to 400F -- it doesn't melt when
> it gets hotter, but the end that goes into the oven is getting quite
> corroded now. I am going to replace it with a short length of
> stainless steel tubing (expensive, but takes high heat and doesn't
> corrode) for the part that's actually in the oven, and then use a
> length of high-temp silicone (food-safe, plasticizer-free, rated up to
> 500F) to connect the boiler to the stainless tubing. The stainless
> steel will then stay in my oven all the time, even when I'm not doing
> bread, which will be much more convenient than my current system,
> which involves installing and removing the copper tubing every time I
> bake bread. When I finish this project, perhaps I'll post pictures
> and details.
>
> The final results depend on the strength of the stovetop burners. My
> stovetop is cheap electric, and can't boil water as fast as I'd like.
> I don't get the intense burst of steam that you'd get in a commercial
> combi oven, but I do get much more than tricks like setting a pan of
> water in the oven. I can keep the steam going as long as I'd like
> (usually 10-15 minutes, until oven spring is totally done), and it
> does get plenty steamy in there -- I can see steam rising from the
> gaps in the oven door seal (remember, this is a cheap 25-year old
> oven) almost immediately after I close the door, and I definitely need
> to stand back for a moment when I open the door with the steam on.
> The bread also cooks faster, presumably because wet air transfers heat
> to the dough more quickly than dry air, or maybe because the air
> movement created by the jet of steam coming out of the end of the pipe
> turns my oven into a pseudo-convection oven.
>
> Please note that all of the above is potentially dangerous and will
> void any warranties within 100 yards. I'm not advising anybody to do
> it.
>
> When I have a chance to build or renovate a new kitchen, I've got my
> eye on the Gaggenau residential combi oven. Expensive, but much
> better than this mad scientist contraption I've currently got going.
> I think KitchenAid just came out with one as well.
>
> --
> Randall

I did something similar, only no pressure cooker, I just used a tea kettle
with a cork -- cork had a hole drilled into it which fit the copper tube.
Tube fed down the vent from the stove top into the back of the oven. Didn't
have any problems with corrosion, but I didn't do that many loaves of bread
either. I just left the tube in place (with the cork on the stovetop end)
when not in use. Had to remove the tube when selling the house.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Bob (this one) wrote:

> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
and small producer of cured and smoked products. I recently
bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
process of getting certified.

As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
that I get to bake in quantity again.

The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
source for 98% of my information. I especially like hearing
from professionals because the information tends to be both
rare and useful.

Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
It's still a hit with the crowd.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Wed 18 Jan 2006 07:55:29p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Reg?

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
>> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
>> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>>
>> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
> with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
> and small producer of cured and smoked products. I recently
> bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
> process of getting certified.
>
> As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
> for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
> about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
> goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
> that I get to bake in quantity again.
>
> The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
> material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
> source for 98% of my information. I especially like hearing
> from professionals because the information tends to be both
> rare and useful.
>
> Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
> It's still a hit with the crowd.
>

Can one of you post Bob's blue cheese dressing recipe?

TIA

Re the original question...

I'll be 61 next week and I've cooked and baked since learning all the
basics at home. I have a Southern heritage and many things I cook are
influenced by old family recipes, but I frequently try new recipes from
many cuisines. I consider myself an expert pie baker and I'm more than
competent at bread and cake baking. Still, there's a wealth of knowledge
and tips to be gained from reading a group like this...real practical
experience from posters at all competency levels.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Reg wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a
>> guy who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake
>> for a family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough
>> time?
>>
>> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
>
> I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
> with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
> and small producer of cured and smoked products.

What sorts of products?

> I recently
> bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
> process of getting certified.
>
> As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
> for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
> about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
> goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
> that I get to bake in quantity again.

What do you bake, mostly?

> The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
> material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
> source for 98% of my information.

What areas are you most interested in getting more info in?

> I especially like hearing
> from professionals because the information tends to be both
> rare and useful.

<LOL> And idiosyncratic. I've had to unlearn a lot of stuff in recent
years. Things I "knew" from school or old-timers who told me their
versions of culinary truths. Along comes some of the good food
scientists and blew away the cobwebs. Harold McGee, Shirley Corriher,
Russ Parsons and a few others. And others who are good researchers and
present the works and words of pros, themselves and others - Bernard
Dupaigne, Maggie Glezer, Nick Malgieri, Alford & Duguid, Carol Field,
Berenbaum. Wayne Gisslen's baking books.

> Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
> It's still a hit with the crowd.

<LOL> Been a while since I posted that anywhere. Reminds me to make
some; been a while for that, too.

So simple when I do it at home - any blue cheese, crumbled, heavy cream
whipped to soft peaks, stir together and rest for a few hours or
overnight. Viola.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>> I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
>> with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
>> and small producer of cured and smoked products.
>
>
> What sorts of products?
>

Many types of hot and cold smoked fish, various smoked
sausages, pastrami, coppacolla, breseola, several fermented
meat products. I'm starting to do aged cheeses but I don't
think it will scale well. Not a bad hobby though.


>> I recently
>> bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
>> process of getting certified.
>>
>> As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
>> for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
>> about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
>> goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
>> that I get to bake in quantity again.
>
>
> What do you bake, mostly?
>

Bread is the only thing I have any formal training in,
so there's a lot of that. Many different types.

As far as desserts, mostly in demand are plain old pies,
cakes, tortes, etc. Sometimes petite four platters. For
myself I'm doing a lot of Pierre Herme recipes right now.

>> The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
>> material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
>> source for 98% of my information.
>
>
> What areas are you most interested in getting more info in?
>

I'm constantly looking for information about packaging and
preservation. It's difficult information to find, and much of
it is geared toward large scale producers. For instance, I'm
still trying to find information on minimum useful levels of
nitrite in preserved meats. The maximum allowed levels are well
covered in regulations, but not much info about quantity vs.
efficacy, etc.

Also, in researching MAP I haven't been able to find much
about if/how I could make use of it. Again, it's geared
toward large producers.

Etc.

Food safety issues in general are important, and you've been
a great help here. Thanks especially for posting things
like this:

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Turkey.html

In-depth, authoritative, but still geared toward the real world.
I don't worry about thawing poultry at room temperature anymore.
Now *that's* information I can use.


>> I especially like hearing
>> from professionals because the information tends to be both
>> rare and useful.
>
>
> <LOL> And idiosyncratic. I've had to unlearn a lot of stuff in recent
> years. Things I "knew" from school or old-timers who told me their
> versions of culinary truths. Along comes some of the good food
> scientists and blew away the cobwebs. Harold McGee, Shirley Corriher,
> Russ Parsons and a few others. And others who are good researchers and
> present the works and words of pros, themselves and others - Bernard
> Dupaigne, Maggie Glezer, Nick Malgieri, Alford & Duguid, Carol Field,
> Berenbaum. Wayne Gisslen's baking books.
>
>> Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
>> It's still a hit with the crowd.
>
>
> <LOL> Been a while since I posted that anywhere. Reminds me to make
> some; been a while for that, too.
>
> So simple when I do it at home - any blue cheese, crumbled, heavy cream
> whipped to soft peaks, stir together and rest for a few hours or
> overnight. Viola.

People don't believe me when I tell them the recipe. When
you use a really high quality, non-UHT cream it takes on a new
dimension.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:

>I'm constantly looking for information about packaging and
>preservation. It's difficult information to find, and much of
>it is geared toward large scale producers. For instance, I'm
>still trying to find information on minimum useful levels of
>nitrite in preserved meats. The maximum allowed levels are well
>covered in regulations, but not much info about quantity vs.
>efficacy, etc.

..>Also, in researching MAP I haven't been able to find much
..>about if/how I could make use of it. Again, it's geared
>toward large producers.

Reg,
In our past meetings with food regulations where brief mentions of
meat processing was discussed
I remember that the amount of nitrite that is effective is less than
half of the legislated allowed maximum level..Using just a third of
the maximum level can confer the desired preservative effect and
enhance the right color of the pickled meat.
If you had to cut down the use of nitrate/nitrite ....don't use the
nitrate but the nitrite...itself
Sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate is reduced into nitrite by
microbial action and that is where its preservative effect lies
If you use the nitrate the recommended dosage is higher than the
nitrite....

...Besides its not only the preservative effect of nitrite that is
important but the other ions in the pickling solution. Meat
preservation is a combination of many factors...that includes aside
from ther formulations the nature of your raw materials, the
equipments, methods used ...the level of processing etc

There is some websites that discuss the details examples of cured meat
processing such as this
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6556e/X6556E02.htm

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6556e/X6556E04.htm

For greater details...you really need to visit the Univerisity libary
and go to the food science section and you will be 'met' with so many
reference materials in meat processing and food packaging ....When I
was browsing those books in relation to my interests in ingredients
,and emerging technologies in food processing the large scale
operations can be scaled down easily but you still need important
piece of equipment to do the processing properly.

In article > ,
Reg > wrote:

> I'm constantly looking for information about packaging and
> preservation. It's difficult information to find, and much of
> it is geared toward large scale producers. For instance, I'm
> still trying to find information on minimum useful levels of
> nitrite in preserved meats. The maximum allowed levels are well
> covered in regulations, but not much info about quantity vs.
> efficacy, etc.
>
> Also, in researching MAP I haven't been able to find much
> about if/how I could make use of it. Again, it's geared
> toward large producers.

Have you asked for any references at sci.bio.food-science? JAT.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article > ,
> Reg > wrote:
>
>
>>I'm constantly looking for information about packaging and
>>preservation. It's difficult information to find, and much of
>>it is geared toward large scale producers. For instance, I'm
>>still trying to find information on minimum useful levels of
>>nitrite in preserved meats. The maximum allowed levels are well
>>covered in regulations, but not much info about quantity vs.
>>efficacy, etc.
>>
>>Also, in researching MAP I haven't been able to find much
>>about if/how I could make use of it. Again, it's geared
>>toward large producers.
>
>
> Have you asked for any references at sci.bio.food-science? JAT.

Yes Ma'am. Nice folks, but they risk being renamed
alt.nobody.here

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Reg" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
> > Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> > who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> > family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
> >
> > Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
> with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
> and small producer of cured and smoked products. I recently
> bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
> process of getting certified.
>
> As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
> for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
> about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
> goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
> that I get to bake in quantity again.
>
> The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
> material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
> source for 98% of my information. I especially like hearing
> from professionals because the information tends to be both
> rare and useful.
>
> Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
> It's still a hit with the crowd.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>

Hi, I'm like Reg, computer programmer and caterer, but instead of meat
products, I have a bed & breakfast. I mostly come in and lurk when waiting
for guests to arrive -- the rest of the time I'm running too fast.



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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Metra wrote:

> Hi, I'm like Reg, computer programmer and caterer, but instead of meat
> products, I have a bed & breakfast. I mostly come in and lurk when waiting
> for guests to arrive -- the rest of the time I'm running too fast.

What sorts of foods do you make for your guests?

Pastorio

Metra wrote:

> Hi, I'm like Reg, computer programmer and caterer, but instead of meat
> products, I have a bed & breakfast. I mostly come in and lurk when waiting
> for guests to arrive -- the rest of the time I'm running too fast.

Hmm, birds of a feather. I'd wager we have the same
motivations for what we do. One line of work is for
money and the next, well, it's for other things

What's on your menu? Some of the best meals I've ever
had have been at B&B's.

--
Reg -*- email: RegForte at oy dot com -*- rm -rf /bin/laden

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
I'm a scientist. Cooking and baking are my creative outlets and
alternate grounds for experimentation. For years I've offered bread of
the month clubs and holiday breads for church service auctions.

I'm also the "resident nutritionist" on rec.food.cooking. All while the
Atkins craze was raging, I disparaged the diet and kept baking. We'd
been through this nonsense before, I knew folks would return to their
senses. I hope that this time people recognize that there's a
difference between "Wonder bread" and good, chewy, whole grain stuff.

I'm always on the lookout for new recipes. I don't have a bread
machine, unless the Mighty Kenwood mixer qualifies.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

>I'm a scientist. Cooking and baking are my creative outlets and
>alternate grounds for experimentation

It is always good to know that there are some science minded people
here.......<grin>.. the kind of individuals that I can easily relate
with...<grin>...

In article
>,
Cindy Fuller > wrote:

> In article >,
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> > Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

> I'm also the "resident nutritionist" on rec.food.cooking.

And you haven't been seen there lately, either. Dangitall.

> Cindy
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> Cindy Fuller > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
> > > Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> > I'm also the "resident nutritionist" on rec.food.cooking.
>
> And you haven't been seen there lately, either. Dangitall.
>
Busy, busy, busy. I have done some lurking, but haven't said much.
Things should calm down after mid-February, when I present a poster at
the Stroke meeting in Florida and finish a grant proposal. We have done
considerable entertaining in the last month, including the infamous
annual Vietnamese dinner. My task this week will be to concoct some
bread for our Super Bowl chili extravaganza. The following week I've
been cajoled into making a dessert for the next-door-neighbors'
daughter's high school music program auction. I'm considering making a
cobbler with some of the fruit I froze over the summer.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

"Bob (this one)" wrote ...
> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a
> professional? Are you a guy who likes to bake
> on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to
> bake for a family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but
> have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you?

55ish SWM computer programmer at Intel in PDX.
Casual lurker in r.f.b Vegetarian who doesn't do much
cooking at home since I am the only one here and I work/
volunteer long/random hours anyway.

> What kinds of information are you seeking?

Lurking for ideas for simple/easy ideas for whole-
grain milling & baking. Esp. cornbread and bread
recepies with lots of cornmeal.

I love to design/build electronic/mechanical gadgets
and am thinking of making my own toaster so I can
control both temp & time. :-)

www.rcrowley.com

>I love to design/build electronic/mechanical gadgets
>and am thinking of making my own toaster so I can
>control both temp & time. :-)

You have an electro-mechanical turn of mind?

That is talent that you have to nurture...

You will never know.....your electro mechanical bent might led you to a
new invention <grin>...

Therefore.....
Keeps the spark of your ingenuity alive....nobody is too old to be an
inventor...<grin>..

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> Pastorio

You doing research for an article again?
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
>>Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
>>who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
>>family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>>
>>Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>>
>>Pastorio
>
> You doing research for an article again?

<LOL> No. Not this time.

Just curious about the level of discourse that would be appropriate. The
conversation would be different if all were professionals, than if all
were domestic cooks. As it is, it seems to be a mixed bunch with home
cooks predominant.

For me, it just means not to get all technical and scientific if it's
not useful info for the folks.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Just curious about the level of discourse that would be appropriate. The
> conversation would be different if all were professionals, than if all
> were domestic cooks. As it is, it seems to be a mixed bunch with home
> cooks predominant.
>
> For me, it just means not to get all technical and scientific if it's
> not useful info for the folks.
>
> Pastorio

I prefer technical and scientific. I used to be a scientist although I
am now just a "boring" ole SAHM.

-L.

wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>Just curious about the level of discourse that would be appropriate. The
>>conversation would be different if all were professionals, than if all
>>were domestic cooks. As it is, it seems to be a mixed bunch with home
>>cooks predominant.
>>
>>For me, it just means not to get all technical and scientific if it's
>>not useful info for the folks.
>>
>>Pastorio
>
>
> I prefer technical and scientific. I used to be a scientist although I
> am now just a "boring" ole SAHM.

<LOL> That's how I think of you. A boring ole SAHM...

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> <LOL> That's how I think of you. A boring ole SAHM...
>
> No, seriously...
>
> Pastorio

LOL....ok, BOB, I will try to liven up my posts a bit for ya!

Lemme seeee.......I once committed Grand Theft Auto. Oh, and I am a
freak in bed! And I like to drop acid (though I don't anymore.) And
I am part of a group called the Five Angry Beavers. Oh, and I
know a hit man. A Really. Good. Hitman.

-L.

In article >,
Bob (this one) > wrote:
[...]
= For me, it just means not to get all technical and scientific if it's
= not useful info for the folks.

I'm just a home cook but I enjoy learning the technical/scientific
details.

= Pastorio


--
Charlie Sorsby

Edgewood, NM 87015
USA

>I'm just a home cook but I enjoy learning the technical/scientific
>details.

Indeed,,, its gratifying to know whats going on at the molecular level
in cookery...
Also ....It is good to know that you are among of the few
exceptions....

Its just uinfortunate that certain chefs that are proud of their
limited knowledge( but enormous egos.....) scoffs at scientific
explanations .....

chembake wrote:
>>I'm just a home cook but I enjoy learning the technical/scientific
>>details.
>
>
> Indeed,,, its gratifying to know whats going on at the molecular level
> in cookery...
> Also ....It is good to know that you are among of the few
> exceptions....
>
> Its just uinfortunate that certain chefs that are proud of their
> limited knowledge( but enormous egos.....) scoffs at scientific
> explanations .....

Can you ever post anything without taking shots at other people? Is your
ego so fragile that you have to drag others down so you can be up?

Try it just once. Post something positive without vomiting on your
shoes. Without being smug and supercilious.

Pastorio

I am a housewife, home maker, I love to cook, but only do it for my
family and friends. I have a Southern influence in my cooking, as for
baking, I like to bake bread, cookies are great, pies and cakes,
actually almost anything and everything.

I read here but lurk, good pie crust is a challenge for me..



Rosie

Rosie wrote:
>I read here but lurk, good pie crust is a challenge for me..

A bssic good pie crust is not difficult to make.
The recipe is just flour, fat, cold water and salt.
The most important part is how its made.
It just require care and gentleness in the manipulation
For a home scale method
The secrets are similar as in the institution : using the right flour
and fat then coupled with proper manipulation procedurss that includes
resting in between; that is after the dough is gently mixed( by first
crumbling the flour with the fat with the fingers or two knives or
pasty blender until coarse crumb texture is obtain where you can still
see lumps of fat coated with flour.
Then the liquid ( where the salt is dissolved is sprinkled in while
blending the dough gently.

It is then divided into the sizes( depending on the pie pan sizes)
allowed to rest preferably in cool conditions.. for at least half an
hour.
One preferred technique for the beginner is described below.

The dough is placed in between sheets of wax paper gently dusted with
flour)
It is then rolled from the center outward in 360 degrees to the
required thickness about 2 mm. the paper dough sandwich can be rolled
in either side and if it happens that the dough does not move outward
you need to lift the paper and add more dusting flour but not much.then
pressing back the paper.
The benefit of this technique is the dough is not over handled so does
not to shrink much if compared to bare dough rolling which is suited
for advanced pie makers.

Then the outer sheets is peeled of , then the remaining dough paper
layer transferred to the prepared pie pan,( greased with fat and
dusted with flour) the bare dough facing the pan.
The It is lowered gently and the remaining wax paper peeled.
The dough must be permitted to sag loosely to the pie pan
The dough is then gently pressed into the bottom making sure not to
overstretch the dough. If the dough appears to stretch the outer sides
are slightly pressed toward the center to permit the dough to sag.
loosely.

Once the bottom is done the sides are then pressed in the same manner
as the bottom taking care not to stretch the dough. The hands is
pressing it gently downward and ouward to form a uniform surface
snugly fitting the pie plate until your hands reach the pie pan rim.
Do not press the dough to hard or you will end up with nonuniform
thickness throughout the pie pan.

Finallly the overlapping excess dough is trimmed by sliding the knife
edge around the pan rim.
Presto you have a properly made pie crust bottom...

Thank you very very much!!

Rosie

chembake wrote:
> Rosie wrote:
>
>>I read here but lurk, good pie crust is a challenge for me..
>
>
> A bssic good pie crust is not difficult to make.
> The recipe is just flour, fat, cold water and salt.
> The most important part is how its made.
> It just require care and gentleness in the manipulation
> For a home scale method
> The secrets are similar as in the institution : using the right flour
> and fat then coupled with proper manipulation procedurss that includes
> resting in between; that is after the dough is gently mixed( by first
> crumbling the flour with the fat with the fingers or two knives or
> pasty blender until coarse crumb texture is obtain where you can still
> see lumps of fat coated with flour.
> Then the liquid ( where the salt is dissolved is sprinkled in while
> blending the dough gently.
>
> It is then divided into the sizes( depending on the pie pan sizes)
> allowed to rest preferably in cool conditions.. for at least half an
> hour.
> One preferred technique for the beginner is described below.
>
> The dough is placed in between sheets of wax paper gently dusted with
> flour)
> It is then rolled from the center outward in 360 degrees to the
> required thickness about 2 mm. the paper dough sandwich can be rolled
> in either side and if it happens that the dough does not move outward
> you need to lift the paper and add more dusting flour but not much.then
> pressing back the paper.
> The benefit of this technique is the dough is not over handled so does
> not to shrink much if compared to bare dough rolling which is suited
> for advanced pie makers.
>
> Then the outer sheets is peeled of , then the remaining dough paper
> layer transferred to the prepared pie pan,( greased with fat and
> dusted with flour) the bare dough facing the pan.
> The It is lowered gently and the remaining wax paper peeled.
> The dough must be permitted to sag loosely to the pie pan
> The dough is then gently pressed into the bottom making sure not to
> overstretch the dough. If the dough appears to stretch the outer sides
> are slightly pressed toward the center to permit the dough to sag.
> loosely.
>
> Once the bottom is done the sides are then pressed in the same manner
> as the bottom taking care not to stretch the dough. The hands is
> pressing it gently downward and ouward to form a uniform surface
> snugly fitting the pie plate until your hands reach the pie pan rim.
> Do not press the dough to hard or you will end up with nonuniform
> thickness throughout the pie pan.
>
> Finallly the overlapping excess dough is trimmed by sliding the knife
> edge around the pan rim.
> Presto you have a properly made pie crust bottom...

Wonderful note.

Pastorio

In article >, says...
> Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
> who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
> family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?
>
> Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
>
> Pastorio
>

I'm someone who likes to bake occasionally. Otherwise I'm an I.T.
professional in real life.