There was a discussion on this awhile back. I have a response by Martha Stewart on the subject that just happened to be in a local paper. I'd be happy to key it in if it is still of interest. Wendy

I found this a couple months ago while researching the
crispy vs. soft issue...
http://allrecipes.com/advice/coll/al...cles/177P1.asp

On Wed 25 Jan 2006 09:40:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Richard
Crowley?

> I found this a couple months ago while researching the
> crispy vs. soft issue...
> http://allrecipes.com/advice/coll/al...cles/177P1.asp
>

Great reference!

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Wendy wrote:
> There was a discussion on this awhile back. I have a response by Martha Stewart on the subject that just happened to be in a local paper. I'd be happy to key it in if it is still of interest. Wendy
yes please

On Thu 26 Jan 2006 12:00:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Jude?

> Wendy wrote:
>> There was a discussion on this awhile back. I have a response by
>> Martha Stewart on the subject that just happened to be in a local
>> paper. I'd be happy to key it in if it is still of interest. Wendy
>> yes please

I would also be very interested. Thanks!

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:40:52 -0800
"Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> I found this a couple months ago while researching the
> crispy vs. soft issue...
> http://allrecipes.com/advice/coll/al...cles/177P1.asp


Some of that is at odds with popular recipes and personal experience.

For example, granted that Alton Brown is an admittedly novice baker at
best, his three chocolate chip cookie recipes are often posted and many
people have used them.

The above article states that bread flour results in crispier cookies,
while the 'chewey' recipe uses bread flour.

It also states, "Butter melts at a much lower temperature than the other
solid fats, so cookies made with it will tend to spread out. And oil, since
it already is a liquid at room temperature, produces cookies that keep
their shape."

In my personal experience, this isn't true.

My own experimentation has been with peanut butter cookies. In those,
the peanut butter necessarily amounts for a large portion of the fat. I
find that the more 'natural' peanut butter - where the primary fat is
peanut oil - produces cookies that are hard and have an oily texture, where
'stabilized' peanut butters in which much of the peanut oil has been
replaced with shortening produces soft cookies with a dry texture.

And, fwiw, the peanut oil version bakes up a little bit flatter.

Aside from that . . . . lets put it this way - I'm a single guy with a
career in a neighborhood full of married college students with very young
children.

Since i have next to nothing in common with most of my neighbors, who in
any case are usually only around for 8 months or so, and i am loathe to
spend time around small children with whom i am not related, I end up being
somewhat reclusive.

Many of these people are, however, very friendly. The ones who manage
not to block my parking space with a truck when they move in receive gifts
of baked goods from me.

Every now and then, a friendly neighbor will give me a plate of cookies.

They are always awful. Stiff but ductile. Oily, leaving a stain on the
paper plate. You know these cookies. You have eaten these yourself and
fought to keep smiling while thinking of a way to decline 2nd helpings.

Their hearts are in the right place but they can't bake worth a damn. I
haven't been able to think of a way to politely suggest that there is a
road to enlightenment that they should seek.

I don't know for sure, but i strongly suspect that these cookies are
made with 62% fat "spread" stick products. Because this is what a single
income family of 3 with at least one in college can afford.

:
> I found this a couple months ago while researching the
> crispy vs. soft issue...
> http://allrecipes.com/advice/coll/al...cles/177P1.asp
Some of that is at odds with popular recipes and personal
experience.
> For example, granted that Alton Brown is an admittedly novice baker
at
>best, his three chocolate chip cookie recipes are often posted and many
>people have used them.

I tend to agree of that....basing upon his recipes I can deduce that he
is an amateur baker who compensates his deficient baking ability with
good promotional skills .< grin>....no different from many cookbook
authors.....that many newsgroup posters regards as demi- gods in the
kitchen....


Many of the hobbyist cooks and unfortunately even some professional
cooks are shallow ....an in extreme ..cases .....stupid...
They load their limited book shelves with such literary trash
....<lol>......
Collecting cookery books does not make you a better cook or baker if
you lack common sense......And if a certain cook or chef has practical
common sense he or she will not prodigiously collect books to enhance
his/her cooking skills...!

Unless he or she just enjoyed reading books for the sake of its
entertainment value if not literary content...then that is
understandable.....



>The above article states that bread flour results in crispier cookies,
>while the 'chewey' recipe uses bread flour.

Technically, higher gluten flours tend to result in tough eating
cookies which shrinks a lot ,therefore results in cookies that have
lower diameters, lower cookie spread to height ratio....are more
chewier..

...If the fat content is not that high and is mixed also improperly it
will drastically affect the cookie quality.

One factor that influences crispiness is the amount of crystallline
and undissolved sugar; in the cookie dough.
.. Higher sugar level with higher gluten flours results in a crispier
cookie than with lower gluten flours.

Cookies differ from the other baked products such as cakes due to
their limited moisture so the gluten is not well hydrated and tend to
exist patly in a flinty state due to coating of unhydrated flour to
the partially hydrated portions .The texture can be modified by using
more fat and sugar
Less tenderizing ingredients in form of fat and sugar results tough
eating cookies.( too chewy)

>It also states, "Butter melts at a much lower temperature than the other
>solid fats, so cookies made with it will tend to spread out. And oil, since
>it already is a liquid at room temperature, produces cookies that keep
>their shape."
>In my personal experience, this isn't true.

Yes.....
The fact is butter if compared with other plasticized solid fats used
in cookie baking has a lower melting point;
Oil does not exhibit the melting characteristics if compared to fats
containing a mixture of hard fat and vegetable oil found in vegetable
shortening.

>
>My own experimentation has been with peanut butter cookies. In those,
t>he peanut butter necessarily amounts for a large portion of the fat.
I
>find that the more 'natural' peanut butter - where the primary fat is
>peanut oil - produces cookies that are hard and have an oily texture, where
'>stabilized' peanut butters in which much of the peanut oil has been
>replaced with shortening produces soft cookies with a dry texture.

It depends on the cookie formulations in terms of the ratios among
flour , fats and sugar.
>And, fwiw, the peanut oil version bakes up a little bit flatter.

Indeed.....oils tend to promote cookie spread and so results in flatter
cookies.

chembake wrote:
> :
>
>>I found this a couple months ago while researching the
>>crispy vs. soft issue...
>>http://allrecipes.com/advice/coll/al...cles/177P1.asp
>
> Some of that is at odds with popular recipes and personal
> experience.
> > For example, granted that Alton Brown is an admittedly novice baker
> at
>
>>best, his three chocolate chip cookie recipes are often posted and many
>>people have used them.
>
>
> I tend to agree of that....basing upon his recipes I can deduce that he
> is an amateur baker who compensates his deficient baking ability with
> good promotional skills .< grin>....no different from many cookbook
> authors.....that many newsgroup posters regards as demi- gods in the
> kitchen....
>
>
> Many of the hobbyist cooks and unfortunately even some professional
> cooks are shallow ....an in extreme ..cases .....stupid...
> They load their limited book shelves with such literary trash
> ...<lol>......
> Collecting cookery books does not make you a better cook or baker if
> you lack common sense......And if a certain cook or chef has practical
> common sense he or she will not prodigiously collect books to enhance
> his/her cooking skills...!
>
> Unless he or she just enjoyed reading books for the sake of its
> entertainment value if not literary content...then that is
> understandable.....
>
>
>
>
>>The above article states that bread flour results in crispier cookies,
>>while the 'chewey' recipe uses bread flour.
>
>
> Technically, higher gluten flours tend to result in tough eating
> cookies which shrinks a lot ,therefore results in cookies that have
> lower diameters, lower cookie spread to height ratio....are more
> chewier..
>
> ..If the fat content is not that high and is mixed also improperly it
> will drastically affect the cookie quality.
>
> One factor that influences crispiness is the amount of crystallline
> and undissolved sugar; in the cookie dough.
> . Higher sugar level with higher gluten flours results in a crispier
> cookie than with lower gluten flours.
>
> Cookies differ from the other baked products such as cakes due to
> their limited moisture so the gluten is not well hydrated and tend to
> exist patly in a flinty state due to coating of unhydrated flour to
> the partially hydrated portions .The texture can be modified by using
> more fat and sugar
> Less tenderizing ingredients in form of fat and sugar results tough
> eating cookies.( too chewy)
>
>
>>It also states, "Butter melts at a much lower temperature than the other
>>solid fats, so cookies made with it will tend to spread out. And oil, since
>>it already is a liquid at room temperature, produces cookies that keep
>>their shape."
>>In my personal experience, this isn't true.
>
>
> Yes.....
> The fact is butter if compared with other plasticized solid fats used
> in cookie baking has a lower melting point;
> Oil does not exhibit the melting characteristics if compared to fats
> containing a mixture of hard fat and vegetable oil found in vegetable
> shortening.
>
> >
>
>>My own experimentation has been with peanut butter cookies. In those,
>
> t>he peanut butter necessarily amounts for a large portion of the fat.
> I
>
>>find that the more 'natural' peanut butter - where the primary fat is
>>peanut oil - produces cookies that are hard and have an oily texture, where
>
> '>stabilized' peanut butters in which much of the peanut oil has been
>
>>replaced with shortening produces soft cookies with a dry texture.
>
>
> It depends on the cookie formulations in terms of the ratios among
> flour , fats and sugar.
>
>>And, fwiw, the peanut oil version bakes up a little bit flatter.
>
>
> Indeed.....oils tend to promote cookie spread and so results in flatter
> cookies.
>

here is a recipe for all to consider. It makes a very thin cookie. I
think it might have originated from Mahtha. Anyway they are very good.

Famous Crispy Chewy Chocolate Chip Cookies

1 pound (4 sticks) unsalted butter
3 cups packed brown sugar
1 cup sugar
4 eggs
2 teaspoons vanilla
3 1/2 cups flour
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons baking soda
1 1/2 cups chocolate chips

1. Preheat oven to 375°. Grease two baking sheets with butter, or line
with Silpat baking mats. Martha Stewart bakes these on a cast iron
cookie sheet. Good luck with that! Cream butter until smooth; add
sugars, and beat until smooth. Beat in eggs and vanilla. Into a large
bowl, sift together dry ingredients. Slowly beat dry ingredients into
wet mixture. Fold in chocolate chips.

2. Drop dough onto prepared baking sheets--allow for ridiculous amounts
of spreading. That's how they're crispy AND chewy! Bake until golden, 8
to 10 minutes.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”