I suspect a major disaster. I never made lemon chiffon cake so I went by a
recipe which called for about a cup or so of salad oil. I got all my mis en
place and went to work, step by step by the recipe. I have no idea what the
batter should look like since, as I said, I've never done this recipe. I
folded in the whipped egg whites and put it in the pan then into the oven.
As I started to make the glaze for the top I saw a little bowl on the table
full of the oil that I measured out. I'll find out in about ten minutes but
I have a question: How disastrous will this be that I forgot the oil?

It will result in a drier cake...something like a fatless sponge.
You can add the oil by folding it to the mixture but the batter
specific gravity will be higher( about 0.60 or more) meaning the cake
will come heavier....but it depends on your skill.
You will not need to fold it all the oil but just a half or two thirds
of it to minimize that increase in batter specific gravity.
In the past I have experienced making chiffon cakes like that...but the
recipe I was using have higher amount of egg whites( around 110-% based
on flour and when I folded in the oil( around 45% based on flour ,the
batter specific gravity was still in the light side ( around 0.45 from
0.35) therefore the cake still comes out satisfactory....

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> I suspect a major disaster. I never made lemon chiffon cake so I went by a
> recipe which called for about a cup or so of salad oil. I got all my mis en
> place and went to work, step by step by the recipe. I have no idea what the
> batter should look like since, as I said, I've never done this recipe. I
> folded in the whipped egg whites and put it in the pan then into the oven.
> As I started to make the glaze for the top I saw a little bowl on the table
> full of the oil that I measured out. I'll find out in about ten minutes but
> I have a question: How disastrous will this be that I forgot the oil?

Thank you.

The cake did, in fact, turn out satisfactory, but the texture was very
wrong. It didn't taste dry, but I learned that chiffon cake should have a
certain feel which this apparently didn't have. I showed it to my mom who
predicted it would probably be more like a lemon angelfood cake, but after
tasting it, she said it tastes more like a lemon chiffon cake than any kind
of angelfood cake, but the sponge was wrong. Nevertheless, after the lemon
glaze had a chance to soak-in, it tasted pretty good, and I concur with her
opinion. I'm happy the batter was so forgiving. I couldn't as easily get
away with that making bread. I can't usually eat cake, though I can drink a
pint of hot sauce without consequences. I don't know why; maybe it's
because of some crazy combination of the fat and sugar content. This cake
didn't give me an upset stomach. Maybe next time I will cut the fat in half
or by a third **but not fail to include it**. That way I will be able to
safely eat it and somewhat approximate the correct texture.

By the way, I didn't have the opportunity to use the standard 10" x 4" tube
pan with the removeable sides because I don't have one. Instead I used a
bundt pan. It was difficult to remove from the pan, probably because of my
failure to include the oil.

I hope you're not suggesting folding in the oil AFTER folding the yoke
mixture into the stiffly-peaked egg whites if I forgot to add it earlier.
I'm pretty sure that once the whites are folded in, it's already too late to
start thinking about adding the oil, but I could be wrong.

Rich

"chembake" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> It will result in a drier cake...something like a fatless sponge.
> You can add the oil by folding it to the mixture but the batter
> specific gravity will be higher( about 0.60 or more) meaning the cake
> will come heavier....but it depends on your skill.
> You will not need to fold it all the oil but just a half or two thirds
> of it to minimize that increase in batter specific gravity.
> In the past I have experienced making chiffon cakes like that...but the
> recipe I was using have higher amount of egg whites( around 110-% based
> on flour and when I folded in the oil( around 45% based on flour ,the
> batter specific gravity was still in the light side ( around 0.45 from
> 0.35) therefore the cake still comes out satisfactory....
>
> Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
>> I suspect a major disaster. I never made lemon chiffon cake so I went by
>> a
>> recipe which called for about a cup or so of salad oil. I got all my mis
>> en
>> place and went to work, step by step by the recipe. I have no idea what
>> the
>> batter should look like since, as I said, I've never done this recipe. I
>> folded in the whipped egg whites and put it in the pan then into the
>> oven.
>> As I started to make the glaze for the top I saw a little bowl on the
>> table
>> full of the oil that I measured out. I'll find out in about ten minutes
>> but
>> I have a question: How disastrous will this be that I forgot the oil?
>

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> The cake did, in fact, turn out satisfactory, but the texture was very
> wrong. It didn't taste dry, but I learned that chiffon cake should have a
> certain feel which this apparently didn't have.

.. I'm happy the batter was so forgiving.
chiffon batter had better tolerance than normal sponge batters so you
find that it still come out satisfactory.

> I couldn't as easily get
> away with that making bread.

In my experience bread is more forgiving than cakes...

I can't usually eat cake, though I can drink a
> pint of hot sauce without consequences.

LOL you have a penchant for hot stuff! than the sweet ones..good for
you!
you can put finely chopped jalapeno, or even habanero in your chiffon
if you want....
to make it hot and sweet<G>
> Maybe next time I will cut the fat in half
> or by a third **but not fail to include it**. That way I will be able to
> safely eat it and somewhat approximate the correct texture.

With Chiffon the vegetable oil content can range from 25-60% based on
flour weight.therefore you had lots of options.

> By the way, I didn't have the opportunity to use the standard 10" x 4" tube
> pan with the removeable sides because I don't have one. Instead I used a
> bundt pan. It was difficult to remove from the pan, probably because of my
> failure to include the oil.

Actually if you bake such cake like angel food and chiffon in the tube
pan that particular cake tin is left ungreased as the cake is supposed
to climb the walls to attain maximum volume.
If you greased it up9 the cake tin) it will slide up during baking but
the cake just slide down when done resulting in poor volume and overall
cake quality.

> I hope you're not suggesting folding in the oil AFTER folding the yoke
> mixture into the stiffly-peaked egg whites if I forgot to add it earlier.
> I'm pretty sure that once the whites are folded in, it's already too late to
> start thinking about adding the oil, but I could be wrong.

The way how chiffon is made is technically first to emulsify the fat
with the yolk together with the rest of the batter ingredients same
principle as in mayonnaise. Then theegg white foam will supply
structural properties confering the desred qualities in the finished
cake.
If you add the oil after the yolk was stirred into the batter you will
have difficulty in having the egg yolk components bind with the
oil...if you don;t stir it properly you will see blobs of oil somewhere
in tthe batter...
Although it happens sometimes..that you forget to add the yolks until
the last time and you can still incorporate the oil with vigorous
stirring,
If you had good quality cake flour and baking powder you can see much
significant difference but if your flour is of poor quality you will
get large holes in the cake.
> Rich
>
> "chembake" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> >
> > It will result in a drier cake...something like a fatless sponge.
> > You can add the oil by folding it to the mixture but the batter
> > specific gravity will be higher( about 0.60 or more) meaning the cake
> > will come heavier....but it depends on your skill.
> > You will not need to fold it all the oil but just a half or two thirds
> > of it to minimize that increase in batter specific gravity.
> > In the past I have experienced making chiffon cakes like that...but the
> > recipe I was using have higher amount of egg whites( around 110-% based
> > on flour and when I folded in the oil( around 45% based on flour ,the
> > batter specific gravity was still in the light side ( around 0.45 from
> > 0.35) therefore the cake still comes out satisfactory....
> >
> > Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> >> I suspect a major disaster. I never made lemon chiffon cake so I went by
> >> a
> >> recipe which called for about a cup or so of salad oil. I got all my mis
> >> en
> >> place and went to work, step by step by the recipe. I have no idea what
> >> the
> >> batter should look like since, as I said, I've never done this recipe. I
> >> folded in the whipped egg whites and put it in the pan then into the
> >> oven.
> >> As I started to make the glaze for the top I saw a little bowl on the
> >> table
> >> full of the oil that I measured out. I'll find out in about ten minutes
> >> but
> >> I have a question: How disastrous will this be that I forgot the oil?
> >

Excellent feedback. Thanks a bunch!

I really don't know where to start, but I'll just jump in with a few
comments. The cake did have a few holes, but not large ciabatta-like holes,
maybe because I used A/P flour; I didn't have any cake flour. I was careful
to not overmix the batter so I wouldn't create too much gluten and
toughen-up the cake.

Wow! Jalapeño-Lime Chiffon Cake! What a concept! Would it work?
Substitute the lemon amounts with half jalapeño and half lime? Hmmm....
Craziness approaching 2:00 am on the west coast USA. I suppose a shot of
tequila would do something to the cake too. No, that would probably ruin
it. Maybe I'll just take the shot of tequila directly into my stomach
first, then attempt this. Please advise.

Yeah, I'll keep the fat on the lower end, closer to 25%-30%.

The cake DID climb--up and over the top; I thought It was acting like a
soufflé. I thought I was going to have to saw off the bottom so the cake
would stand straight and level after I took it out of the form, but after it
cooled that turned out okay.

It's interesting you mentioned mayonnaise since we had to make mayonnaise
last semester in cooking class. We had to do it by hand--no electric mixers
allowed. We had to hold the bowl with one hand, wire whip in the other
hand, and with our third hand (as if we had a third hand--no helpers allowed
either for this competency exam) slowly drizzle-in the oil. I hated it. My
arm was sore for two days after that. It's so much easier with an electric
mixer. Anyway, that's the idea? Perhaps I should ignore the written recipe
or rewrite it to include this concept. My recipe calls for mixing the
flour, sugar, salt, baking powder, etc., then, in this order, add the oil,
egg yolks, water, lemon zest and vanilla, then beat until smooth. Are you
suggesting that I emulsify the oil, egg yolks, and water first then add it
to the dry ingredients? I was also thinking about adding the zest to the
sugar early and then mixing it in with the dry ingredients before adding the
liquid. That way the flavor of the lemon zest would be completely
distributed. So my instructions are a little off? This is not a very
complicated recipe, but it isn't written in standard "baker's percentages"
as I would have liked. I want to totally rewrite this and use ounces and/or
grams instead of cups and then calculate the percentages. This time I'll
use the lessons learned through my conversations with you to adjust the
prodecure while I'm at it. I'll eagerly await your reply. Thank you.

By the time I'm done will it still be called chiffon? Or will it be
something original?

Rich



"chembake" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
>> Thank you.
>>
>> The cake did, in fact, turn out satisfactory, but the texture was very
>> wrong. It didn't taste dry, but I learned that chiffon cake should have
>> a
>> certain feel which this apparently didn't have.
>
> . I'm happy the batter was so forgiving.
> chiffon batter had better tolerance than normal sponge batters so you
> find that it still come out satisfactory.
>
>> I couldn't as easily get
>> away with that making bread.
>
> In my experience bread is more forgiving than cakes...
>
> I can't usually eat cake, though I can drink a
>> pint of hot sauce without consequences.
>
> LOL you have a penchant for hot stuff! than the sweet ones..good for
> you!
> you can put finely chopped jalapeno, or even habanero in your chiffon
> if you want....
> to make it hot and sweet<G>
>> Maybe next time I will cut the fat in half
>> or by a third **but not fail to include it**. That way I will be able to
>> safely eat it and somewhat approximate the correct texture.
>
> With Chiffon the vegetable oil content can range from 25-60% based on
> flour weight.therefore you had lots of options.
>
>> By the way, I didn't have the opportunity to use the standard 10" x 4"
>> tube
>> pan with the removeable sides because I don't have one. Instead I used a
>> bundt pan. It was difficult to remove from the pan, probably because of
>> my
>> failure to include the oil.
>
> Actually if you bake such cake like angel food and chiffon in the tube
> pan that particular cake tin is left ungreased as the cake is supposed
> to climb the walls to attain maximum volume.
> If you greased it up the cake tin) it will slide up during baking but
> the cake just slide down when done resulting in poor volume and overall
> cake quality.
>
>> I hope you're not suggesting folding in the oil AFTER folding the yoke
>> mixture into the stiffly-peaked egg whites if I forgot to add it earlier.
>> I'm pretty sure that once the whites are folded in, it's already too late
>> to
>> start thinking about adding the oil, but I could be wrong.
>
> The way how chiffon is made is technically first to emulsify the fat
> with the yolk together with the rest of the batter ingredients same
> principle as in mayonnaise. Then theegg white foam will supply
> structural properties confering the desred qualities in the finished
> cake.
> If you add the oil after the yolk was stirred into the batter you will
> have difficulty in having the egg yolk components bind with the
> oil...if you don;t stir it properly you will see blobs of oil somewhere
> in tthe batter...
> Although it happens sometimes..that you forget to add the yolks until
> the last time and you can still incorporate the oil with vigorous
> stirring,
> If you had good quality cake flour and baking powder you can see much
> significant difference but if your flour is of poor quality you will
> get large holes in the cake.
>> Rich
>>
>> "chembake" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > It will result in a drier cake...something like a fatless sponge.
>> > You can add the oil by folding it to the mixture but the batter
>> > specific gravity will be higher( about 0.60 or more) meaning the cake
>> > will come heavier....but it depends on your skill.
>> > You will not need to fold it all the oil but just a half or two thirds
>> > of it to minimize that increase in batter specific gravity.
>> > In the past I have experienced making chiffon cakes like that...but the
>> > recipe I was using have higher amount of egg whites( around 110-% based
>> > on flour and when I folded in the oil( around 45% based on flour ,the
>> > batter specific gravity was still in the light side ( around 0.45 from
>> > 0.35) therefore the cake still comes out satisfactory....
>> >
>> > Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
>> >> I suspect a major disaster. I never made lemon chiffon cake so I went
>> >> by
>> >> a
>> >> recipe which called for about a cup or so of salad oil. I got all my
>> >> mis
>> >> en
>> >> place and went to work, step by step by the recipe. I have no idea
>> >> what
>> >> the
>> >> batter should look like since, as I said, I've never done this recipe.
>> >> I
>> >> folded in the whipped egg whites and put it in the pan then into the
>> >> oven.
>> >> As I started to make the glaze for the top I saw a little bowl on the
>> >> table
>> >> full of the oil that I measured out. I'll find out in about ten
>> >> minutes
>> >> but
>> >> I have a question: How disastrous will this be that I forgot the oil?
>> >
>

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> Excellent feedback. Thanks a bunch!

Your welcome!

> I really don't know where to start, but I'll just jump in with a few
> comments. The cake did have a few holes, but not large ciabatta-like holes,
> maybe because I used A/P flour; I didn't have any cake flour. I was careful
> to not overmix the batter so I wouldn't create too much gluten and
> toughen-up the cake.

You're spot on in your reasoning..

> Wow! Jalapeño-Lime Chiffon Cake! What a concept! Would it work?
> Substitute the lemon amounts with half jalapeño and half lime? Hmmm....
> Craziness approaching 2:00 am on the west coast USA. I suppose a shot of
> tequila would do something to the cake too. No, that would probably ruin
> it. Maybe I'll just take the shot of tequila directly into my stomach
> first, then attempt this. Please advise.

Theoritically it would....
Pouring some liqueur when the cake has cooled down can add a variance
in taste...

> Yeah, I'll keep the fat on the lower end, closer to 25%-30%.


> The cake DID climb--up and over the top; I thought It was acting like a
> soufflé. I thought I was going to have to saw off the bottom so the cake
> would stand straight and level after I took it out of the form, but after it
> cooled that turned out okay.
>
My recipe calls for mixing the
> flour, sugar, salt, baking powder, etc., then, in this order, add the oil,
> egg yolks, water, lemon zest and vanilla, then beat until smooth. Are you
> suggesting that I emulsify the oil, egg yolks, and water first then add it
> to the dry ingredients? I was also thinking about adding the zest to the
> sugar early and then mixing it in with the dry ingredients before adding the
> liquid. That way the flavor of the lemon zest would be completely
> distributed. So my instructions are a little off? T

Nope everything is fine...you can do either way in adding the lemon
zest and some lemon juice or lime..whichever you like...

>this is not a very
> complicated recipe, but it isn't written in standard "baker's percentages"
> as I would have liked. I want to totally rewrite this and use ounces and/or
> grams instead of cups and then calculate the percentages. This time I'll
> use the lessons learned through my conversations with you to adjust the
> prodecure while I'm at it. I'll eagerly await your reply. Thank you.
>
> By the time I'm done will it still be called chiffon? Or will it be
> something original?
>
Well the cake is still basically based on chiffon batter...therefore
the outcome will be likely similar. but you better chopped the pepper
in the food processor and blend it well with the batter so that it will
be evenly distributed.
>

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> The cake did, in fact, turn out satisfactory, but the texture was very
> wrong.

If this ever happens again, cool the cake in the pan and then poke
holes in the bottom of the cake with a thin rod (the handle of a
slender wooden spoon worrs well), Pour about 2/3 c of sweet (pineapple
or orange) over the cake, cover it and let it set for about an hour in
the fridge. Then you can remove it from the pan (may have to wait
until it comes back to room temp). It will be moist and taste
wonderful.

-L.

Earlier I wrote:
> Wow! Jalapeño-Lime Chiffon Cake! What a concept! Would it work?
> Substitute the lemon amounts with half jalapeño and half lime? Hmmm....

Okay, here's the latest. I went back to school on Thursday and discussed
this whole idea with my chef. He cringed at the idea of putting Jalapeño in
the cake itself, but instead suggested I make a regular lime chiffon cake
and then put the Jalapeño only in the glaze. Yes, this does sound
interesting. I'm going to try it this afternoon.

Rich

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> Earlier I wrote:
>
>>Wow! Jalapeño-Lime Chiffon Cake! What a concept! Would it work?
>>Substitute the lemon amounts with half jalapeño and half lime? Hmmm....
>
>
> Okay, here's the latest. I went back to school on Thursday and discussed
> this whole idea with my chef. He cringed at the idea of putting Jalapeño in
> the cake itself, but instead suggested I make a regular lime chiffon cake
> and then put the Jalapeño only in the glaze. Yes, this does sound
> interesting. I'm going to try it this afternoon.
>
> Rich

And there are lots of Jalapeño jellies out there, practically ready for
use as glaze!

Dave

The chef cringe...?
He is just and average chef then , not a very good one as he lacks the
spirit of creativity and adventurism...
I think he will puke if I suggest to add chocolate to his normal
cookery menu..
Or if I suggest to add chili and other spices to his chocolate
dessert...

Richard Hollenbeck wrote:
> Earlier I wrote:
> > Wow! Jalapeño-Lime Chiffon Cake! What a concept! Would it work?
> > Substitute the lemon amounts with half jalapeño and half lime? Hmmm.....
>
> Okay, here's the latest. I went back to school on Thursday and discussed
> this whole idea with my chef. He cringed at the idea of putting Jalapeño in
> the cake itself, but instead suggested I make a regular lime chiffon cake
> and then put the Jalapeño only in the glaze. Yes, this does sound
> interesting. I'm going to try it this afternoon.
>
> Rich