Hi, this is my first posting to the group.

I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would be
interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans. Thanks
in advance.
Frank

Frank103 wrote:
> Hi, this is my first posting to the group.
>
> I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
> kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
> reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would be
> interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans. Thanks
> in advance.
> Frank

You're opening a can of worms with that question. One particular
pompous blowhard on here refused to admit I was right. I ended up
having to killfile him. I saw his picture one time and he even looks
like a fat pompous blowhard.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...eb94b5e8d9b86?

Frank103 wrote:
> Hi, this is my first posting to the group.
>
> I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
> kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
> reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would be
> interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans. Thanks
> in advance.
> Frank
>
>
I think that you should ask the "Myth Busters".

wrote in news:1155583971.668535.290230@
74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:

> You're opening a can of worms with that question. One particular
> pompous blowhard on here refused to admit I was right. I ended up
> having to killfile him. I saw his picture one time and he even looks
> like a fat pompous blowhard.
>

Actually, while your observations were on target, that an aluminum pan
doesn't brown like other materials, your terminology was wrong. The reason
they don't brown as much is not because of reflecting heat, but rather poor
conduction of heat due to lack of mass.

Mike H wrote:
> wrote in news:1155583971.668535.290230@
> 74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:
>
> > You're opening a can of worms with that question. One particular
> > pompous blowhard on here refused to admit I was right. I ended up
> > having to killfile him. I saw his picture one time and he even looks
> > like a fat pompous blowhard.
> >
>
> Actually, while your observations were on target, that an aluminum pan
> doesn't brown like other materials, your terminology was wrong. The reason
> they don't brown as much is not because of reflecting heat, but rather poor
> conduction of heat due to lack of mass.

Aluminum is actually a good conductor but you're right about those
lightwight disposable aluminum pans and their lack of mass. The
reflectivity of them does play a part though. I was thinking of the
heavyweight aluminum cake pans when I made my original post. You can
take two identical cake batters and pour one into a dark colored pan
and the other one into a shiny reflective pan and assuming the pans are
made of the same material and are of the same mass the one in the
reflective pan will come out with a light crust and the one in the dark
colored pan will come out with a dark crust. The one in the reflective
pan may even take a few minutes longer to bake. I never use dark
colored pans or cookie sheets because everything gets too brown.

wrote:
> Aluminum is actually a good conductor but you're right about those
> lightwight disposable aluminum pans .

lightwight? Somebody stole my e.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:03:09 GMT, Mike H > wrote:

>Actually, while your observations were on target, that an aluminum pan
>doesn't brown like other materials, your terminology was wrong. The reason
>they don't brown as much is not because of reflecting heat, but rather poor
>conduction of heat due to lack of mass.

You might find it useful to go take a high school level physics course.

-- Larry

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:06:57 -0700, "Frank103" >
wrote:

>Hi, this is my first posting to the group.
>
>I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
>kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
>reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would be
>interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans. Thanks
>in advance.

Frank....let me be "frank" with you. There is NO reason to turn
this into a "massive" scientific experiment when each contributor will
come out with a different result...thus proving they ARE CORRECT and
nothing you have to say will prove them wrong.

If you are getting "dark bottom" results....turn down the heat. YOUR
oven is too HOT.

If you are baking with "light bottom" results....turn UP the heat.

You know how to check a cake for "doneness", just like grandma did.
Get that toothpick out of the drawer and "check as usual".

After the "frosting" is in place...who cares....unless you burned the
shit out of the bottom of the cake. If you did...you need to PAY
ATTENTION to what you are doing. It is plain and simple.



Here is one of the best whipped frosting recipes I have ever prepared.


@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Boiled Frosting

Frostings

1 cup milk
4 tablespoon flour
3/4 cup butter
1 cup sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla

Mix flour and milk over medium heat until it forms a paste. Let cool.

Mix butter and sugar together then beat in cooled flour and milk
mixture.
This will take 10 minutes, at least, until no sugar granules can be
felt
between fingers. Add vanilla.

Yield: 1 batch


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.73 **

The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures
may not be consistent with what you know to be true.

As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:03:09 GMT
Mike H > wrote:

> wrote in news:1155583971.668535.290230@
> 74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:
>
> > You're opening a can of worms with that question. One particular
> > pompous blowhard on here refused to admit I was right. I ended up
> > having to killfile him. I saw his picture one time and he even
> > looks like a fat pompous blowhard.
> >
>
> Actually, while your observations were on target, that an aluminum pan
> doesn't brown like other materials, your terminology was wrong. The
> reason they don't brown as much is not because of reflecting heat,
> but rather poor conduction of heat due to lack of mass.


The truth is far more complex than mass or conduction or
reflectivity.

If this were about mass, lead would be a great cooking material.
Setting aside heavy metal toxicity, I'll give you a hint - it isn't.
Quite poor, in fact.

Reflectivity does play a part in the oven - things that are black
absorb a broader spectrum of the radiant energy in an oven than things
that are not black. This has not been in dispute since the days of the
Count von Rumford.

The cornerstone of this argument, the piece you completely overlook,
is specific heat, and how it relates to the density of a material. Mass
is just one part of the density question.

I'm not about to go into tremendous detail. I already did that over
in rec.food.drink.tea several months back when someone was aghast that i
never bother to preheat featherweight glass teapots that have a paltry
440 joules per kilogram-kelvin to offer me. Granted, the argument at the
time was about stored energy.

Here's the basics: Ignoring for the moment the difference in density,
iron and steel have about half the specific heat of aluminum, which is
expressed as a measurement of joules of energy per kilogram.

What this means, in the most basic of terms, is that given the same
mass and the same surface area, and similar surface features, a steel
pan will buffer about half the amount of energy that aluminum will
before conducting it to the food.

It all conducts at something real close to the speed of light, so
"faster" isn't the right term. There's just more conduction going on in
the steel.

No material is "better" in all cases. I make bread in steel pans
because i like the browning qualities and the resulting crust formation.
I make cake in aluminum pans because i like the browning qualities and
the resulting crust formation.

I have one aluminum bread pan. I tried making bread in it once. I
prefer to make pound cake in it.

I have intentionally left out references to the mean thermal
conductivity of these materials. I don't feel like looking that up
today. If you want to have fun with that, Pyrex is about 450 k/kg-k too.
Figure out why it doesn't behave exactly like steel.

Arguments of shiny vs. dull should take into account issues like
surface area on a molecular level, and the fact that aluminum oxide is a
better thermal conductor than aluminum. Black vs. metal-colored was
settled over 200 years ago.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:19:44 -0600, Eric Jorgensen
> wrote:

irrelevant drivel deleted.......what temperature would you set your
oven to?


>better thermal conductor than aluminum. Black vs. metal-colored was
>settled over 200 years ago.

Yes...that was a top posting. It really makes no more difference
than your blather.

Can you provide a "tasty" cake recipe? Didn't think so.

Moral to the story...make chocolate cakes....who can tell if the
bottom gets too black....but we all can tell when your product is DRY!


This is spectacular...

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Chocolate Banana Sin Cake

cakes, chocolate, desserts

----CAKE----
1 lb semisweet chocolate
8 tablespoon butter
4 large eggs
4 tablespoon sugar
1 tablespoon cornstarch
2 teaspoon vanilla
1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar
----BANANA TOPPING----
1 lb bananas, ripe
2 tablespoon orange juice
3 tablespoon butter
3 tablespoon sugar
1 cup heavy cream
3 tablespoon confectioners sugar
1 tablespoon light rum
1 oz semisweet chocolate

Preheat oven to 350F. Butter a 10" springform pan and sprinkle with
sugar.

Prepare the cake: Melt the chocolate in the top of a double boiler
over
simmering water. When the chocolate has completely melted, whisk in
the
butter a tablespoon at a time. Let the mixture cool slightly.

Meanwhile, beat the egg yolks with 2 tablespoons of sugar in a mixer
at
high speed until mixture is ivory colored and as thick as marshmallow
topping about 5 minutes. Stir in the cornstarch and vanilla.

Beat the egg whites, adding the cream of tartar after 20 seconds, and
adding the remaining 2 tablespoons of sugar as the whites stiffen to
soft
peaks. Gently fold the egg yolk mixture into the chocolate mixture.
Fold in
the egg whites as gently as possible.

Spoon the batter into the prepared pan. Bake the cake until firm on
top but
the center is still a little soft, about 30 minutes. Remove the pan
from
the oven, set on rack and let cool to room temperature. Run knife
around
edge and remove from pan. Cake will sink a little in the center.

Prepare the topping: Peel the bananas and cut them into 1/4 inch
slices.
Toss the bananas with the orange juice to prevent discoloring.

Combine the butter and sugar in a large skillet over high heat and
cook
until mixture begins to caramelize, about 2 to 3 minutes. Stir in the
bananas and cook, turning, until golden about 4 minutes. Let the
banana
mixture cool completely.

Beat the cream in a chilled bowl with a mixer. As the cream stiffens,
beat
in the confectioners' sugar and rum to taste. Continue beating until
stiff.

Spoon the caramelized banana mixture on top of the cake. With pastry
bag,
fitted with star tip, pipe rosettes of cream over the top. Use a
vegetable
peeler to shave the chocolate over cake. Refrigerate leftovers.

Yield: 8 servings


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.73 **

The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures
may not be consistent with what you know to be true.

As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:02:11 GMT
Ward Abbott > wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:19:44 -0600, Eric Jorgensen
> > wrote:
>
> irrelevant drivel deleted.......what temperature would you set your
> oven to?


So, what you're saying is that all differences in thermal properties
boil down to an adjustment in the temperature of the oven?

Are you saying that there is no difference in thermal properties
between different materials?

Do you propose to argue that the thermal energy applied to the top of
the food makes no meaningful difference? Perhaps that the height of the
ceiling of the oven makes no difference?

What about convection?

I don't give recipes to trolls.

Alan wrote in news:7656e25b25ev1o0oek7j4uplk810lf7v2k@
4ax.com:

> I think that aluminum has a better conductivity rating than cast
> iron. That's what a post in rec.food.cooking (?) said when they were
> discussing cast iron frying pans vs. cast aluminum ones.

Beter conductivity, but not better retention. Cast iron will stay hotter
longer.

wrote in news:1155756261.588030.294460
@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> was thinking of the
> heavyweight aluminum cake pans when I made my original post. You can
> take two identical cake batters and pour one into a dark colored pan
> and the other one into a shiny reflective pan and assuming the pans are
> made of the same material and are of the same mass the one in the
> reflective pan will come out with a light crust and the one in the dark
> colored pan will come out with a dark crust.

That has more to do with reflecting the radient energy than the heat it
self. Same reason a dark car will heat up faster than a light colored one,
it's not that the heat is reflected, but rather the raident energy, the
light.

Mike H wrote:
> wrote in news:1155756261.588030.294460
> @i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > was thinking of the
> > heavyweight aluminum cake pans when I made my original post. You can
> > take two identical cake batters and pour one into a dark colored pan
> > and the other one into a shiny reflective pan and assuming the pans are
> > made of the same material and are of the same mass the one in the
> > reflective pan will come out with a light crust and the one in the dark
> > colored pan will come out with a dark crust.
>
> That has more to do with reflecting the radient energy than the heat it
> self. Same reason a dark car will heat up faster than a light colored one,
> it's not that the heat is reflected, but rather the raident energy, the
> light.

Heat is a form of radiant energy.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:58:26 -0500
Alan wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:47:59 GMT, Mike H >
> wrote:
>
> >Alan wrote in
> >news:7656e25b25ev1o0oek7j4uplk810lf7v2k@ 4ax.com:
> >
> >> I think that aluminum has a better conductivity rating than cast
> >> iron. That's what a post in rec.food.cooking (?) said when they
> >were > discussing cast iron frying pans vs. cast aluminum ones.
> >
> >Beter conductivity, but not better retention. Cast iron will stay
> >hotter longer.
>
> And this is an advantage because . . . . .


Better for searing meat.

Alan wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:56:18 -0600, Eric Jorgensen
> > wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:58:26 -0500
>>Alan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:47:59 GMT, Mike H >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Alan wrote in
>>>>news:7656e25b25ev1o0oek7j4uplk810lf7v2k@ 4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think that aluminum has a better conductivity rating than cast
>>>>>iron. That's what a post in rec.food.cooking (?) said when they
>>>>
>>>>were > discussing cast iron frying pans vs. cast aluminum ones.
>>>>
>>>>Beter conductivity, but not better retention. Cast iron will stay
>>>>hotter longer.
>>>
>>>And this is an advantage because . . . . .
>>
>>
>> Better for searing meat.
>
>
> Actually, I thought you wanted to give the heat up to the meat, in
> which case better conductivity would seem to accomplish the goal.
>
> I would guess that the iron "staying hotter longer" means it isn't
> getting the heat onto the meat.
>
> Alan

No. In this case, "staying hotter longer" is another way of saying "has
greater thermal mass". You preheat the pan, and when you drop the steak
on it, it still has enough kick to sear the other side, too.

Alan wrote in
:

>>Beter conductivity, but not better retention. Cast iron will stay
>>hotter longer.
>
> And this is an advantage because . . . . .

Holds it's temperature better. Means less thermal loss when you add
colder foods to it. Also makes it better for slow cooking.

Alan wrote in news:frfae2d966lk4569od1ij8p56n52jedkbm@
4ax.com:

> I would guess that the iron "staying hotter longer" means it isn't
> getting the heat onto the meat.
>

No, it means it doesn't loose as much of it's heat when it heats the meat.

What about glass cake pans??

Scott



"Frank103" > wrote in message
news:R42Eg.451$JR5.339@dukeread11...
> Hi, this is my first posting to the group.
>
> I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
> kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
> reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would
> be interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans.
> Thanks in advance.
> Frank
>
>

Hi Frank,

From what I gather, you are interested in what is the best type of
cake pan, not all this nonsens about what type of material is best:
steel, alluminum, glass....

If you want to make good cakes I recommend the double layered airbake
cakepans, which I believe are doulble walled alluminum.

With this type of cake pans, the cakes rise nice and uniformly, unlike
glass cake pans which have a high bubble in the center.

I believe the air-bake pans are better because the double layered
insulation properties of the pan and the thermal conductivity of the
aluminum result in an even heat distribution in the cake while it is
cooking resulting in an even rise.

Regardless of why it works best, the double latered airbake pans work
the best.

Best of luck,

Tony

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:06:57 -0700, "Frank103" >
wrote:

>Hi, this is my first posting to the group.
>
>I read that light colored, shiney (aluminum?) cake pans, as opposed to the
>kind that are treated with a non-stick coating, are preferred because they
>reflect the heat and thus the cake bottom doesn't get too dark. I would be
>interested in knowing your thoughts and preferences as to cake pans. Thanks
>in advance.
>Frank
>