I didn't want to hijack Mike's thread, so I started a new one. I
would be interested in anyone else's comments on the changes in
barbecue over the years.

On Aug 8, 9:29 am, mikel68 > wrote:

> He asked if i wanted to try it, I can't say I wasn't >hesitant. he brought it out, still pretty much whole, I >pulled a piece of the crust off and some inner meat, He >gets an "A". it was awesome. Just a very small section >in the center didn't pull. Damn he was proud, I told him,
> "my wife wants you to..."

I don't know why you would be hesitant unless you were thinking he did
a bad job altogether. It sounds like "rained out butt" method to me.
Good for you for trying it with an open mind.

A good unlerlying message here. Most folks do one thing or another
based on "common knowledge of the right way to do it" while they
actually just parroting what they have heard somewhere else. There
are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and in the early days of the internet
it was a hotbed of ideas and trials, some good and some bad.

I remember when I was introduced to charcoal in cooking. I thought
that was something that only lazy old men did on weekends. In my mind
as well as my friends, we saw charcoal guys as the old men with skinny
legs in pastel shorts and those funny fishing hat with charcoal in one
hand and lighter in the other going for the classic patio cooker.

Growing up in Texas, 30 - 35 years ago when I started barbecueing we
built a fire of oak started with tinder (no fluid we were all in
construction and had all the wood for tinder we wanted!), let it cook
down till it made a good bed of coals, then shoveled it into a large
pit or brick pit for barbecue. We kept the fire next to the pit going
all day and played horseshoes and drank while we were waiting for the
brisket, sausage and ribs to come off. We shoveled in a couple of
scoops of coals as needed when it looked like the fire was not up to
par. It was an all day affair every time, no doubt. Leftovers were
prized by all.

I never saw a plain flat of a brisket at the store. In the late 80s
when they became popular at the supermarket we used to laugh our butts
off at the thought of a "7 lb brisket". I wondered if that was about
the size of the brisket on my German Shepherd. BBQ for us was indeed
an all day affair with our big prized "packer cuts". Anyone else
remeber the time before cryovac?

Drowsy and tired, we would all meet up with big mugs of coffee and
start a fire and get the beer iced. Brisket went on the fire to be
seared, coated with salt and pepper as soon as possible. Then on the
pit for cooking. An hour or so before we were ready for lunch,
sausage went on and was eaten as a late lunch. Leftover sausage put
on the grill to stay warm, wrapped in foil. At about hour 10, on goes
the chicken in a far corner of the pit. Two hours later, everything
is done and serious eating begins.

I would not eat meat that had a "rub" on it. I would not eat meat
with sauce on it. I figured that these were cheats to hide bad bbq.
In my eyes the rub would make up for lack of time needed as an
investment to make a good brisket, and sauce would cover up badly
cooked ribs and chicken. I didn't like the taste of store bought
charcoal, and unless it was Royal Oak, I wouldn't eat meat "barbecued"
over charcoal instead of 100% wood coals. The diesel taste was too
much for me.

And when someone would say that turned out good bbq in an afternoon, I
always hoped they were talking about chicken or sausage, which in
Texas are considered appetizers and are usually grilled.

While for the most part I still think that is true, I do use rubs on
butts and pork ribs now, and plain salt and tons of pepper on beef
ribs. Changing with the times, I guess. I am too lazy to make a fire
to keep the coals at hand, and most of my old friends are much more
comfortable watching football in the a/c on Sunday than they are
cooking big hunks of meat.

Except for pork bb ribs and spares, I always cook my meats at higher
temps, and always have. BBQing a 16 lb packer brisket at 300 - 325
will still put out a product that will squirt juice, and you can eat
it the same day (although still a long one) you bbq it. I never foil
(unless it is to keep something warm or keep away unwanted critters)
anything or let is rest for hours as part of a cooking procedure.

Now I cook on one of two smokers, and occasionally grill a burger or
some fish. I will have to say that although the end product isn't
that much better, it is more consistent with the use of
thermometers. Easier to keep up with, too. With the consistency of
smoking in mind, I now use some charcoal with homemade lump added,
probably half and half. Surprisingly, that has averaged out to about
100 - 125 lbs of charcoal a year mixed in with the lump over the last
15 years or so.

I still do it the right way with all wood on occasion, but just can't
seem to find the time to do it that way, and it doesn't seem to taste
the same from a WSM as it did from a brick pit or a pit built by a
welder buddy.

Well, the times are indeed changing. Until I found this group a while
back and read a ton of posts, I never knew people were spraying meat
with apple juices or mixtures, using cinnamon in rubs, coating meats
with sugary stuff (*sniff* I prefer turbinado sugar in my rubs) and
using lump made (not homemade) from furniture tailings. I actually
didn't think that many people were using rubs... not on barbecue. The
big thing now seems to be "I serve sauce on the side, but it is rarely
needed". Sauce? Fruit juice glaze?

Some of the newer style of bbq is good stuff, and I certainly have
modified my recipes and techniques over the years. I am not a
professional, it is just something I like to do, and it seems like 30
years ago everyone was doing it the old way. No one I knew barbecued
on something that came from a home improvement store.

Thinking about it now as I write this, I wonder if I miss the
barbecue or all the processes involved. It was an activity I really
looked forward to when we could all get together. But I haven't
played horsehoes in years, much less with a beer in my hand with
little pieces of ice on the can.

Robert

wrote:
> I didn't want to hijack Mike's thread, so I started a new one. I
> would be interested in anyone else's comments on the changes in
> barbecue over the years.
>
> On Aug 8, 9:29 am, mikel68 > wrote:
>
>> He asked if i wanted to try it, I can't say I wasn't >hesitant. he brought it out, still pretty much whole, I >pulled a piece of the crust off and some inner meat, He >gets an "A". it was awesome. Just a very small section >in the center didn't pull. Damn he was proud, I told him,
>> "my wife wants you to..."
>
wrote:
> I didn't want to hijack Mike's thread, so I started a new one. I
> would be interested in anyone else's comments on the changes in
> barbecue over the years.
>

As a kid in central Mo in the early 50's, my Dad got some concrete
blocks and fire bricks to build an outdoor cooker. It was not a smoker,
but just a permanent version of a wood-fired grill. We'd do steaks and
burgers on it mostly, and if we wanted Ribs, we got them from a small
beer joint called Bruner's. Ocey slow smoked his ribs and they were
served already sauced with a KC-style catsup/mustard/molasses. There
were no butts or briskets cooked on that old grill, and the only fuel
was wood we'd split and stack alongside.

Later, as an early teen, the outdoor cooking turned to a "pan"-type
grill that used charcoal. It was again used almost exclusively for
steaks and burgers, but we also expanded to include some really great
pork chops and chicken. The upgrade to charcoal really added to the
flavor. The steaks, back then, were generally just sprinkled with S&P
before tossing on the grill, as was the chicken.

Later incarnations of that old pan-type of grill included a rectangular
hooded version with a glass window that smoked up after just the first
use. However, it held the heat well-enough that we'd do ribs on it and
the results were very good to my unexperienced taste. Mom would boil
the ribs briefly and then we'd sauce them and keep saucing them every
ten minutes or so until the bone began to show. That was they way most
folks fixed ribs back then- at least in central MO. The best cooks
could really do the ribs to perfection without burning the sweet sauce-
which is now called KC-style.

My first real experience with slow smoking came after moving to another
state. I had a gas grill that had burned out, and decided to convert it
to a charcoal smoker. I pop riveted together a burn tub from an old
bucket and ducted the output to the bottom corner of the old grill. I
was soon hooked on slow smoking.

Later, in another state, I built a masonry smoker, went through several
R2D2 cookers and several gas grills. To be honest, there's a place for
all of them and none is either perfect or patentey defective.

Now that I'm retired and live in a house with tiny back yard, I have
limited my cooking to a gas grill with side burner, IR cooker for char
rare and a Bradley for slow smoking. Since it's hotter than hades here
in the desert about 10 months a year, i cook about 90% of my food
outdoors and experiment with different techniques for entertainment. I
have certain things I really enjoy, such as ribs, butt and chicken on
the Bradley, and am having trouble warming up to Brisket. On the gas
grill, I do chicken, chops, lamb, burgers and seafood like shrimp,
scallops, salmon and tuna. On the IR grill, I do primarily steaks, but
also have found it's an excellent finisher for some smoked things from
the Bradley, such as chicken. The Bradley's slow smoke leaves the
chicken exterior a bit gray, where the IR grill will brown it almost
immediately for a much improved color, texture and flavor.

Nonny

> wrote in message
>
> I still do it the right way with all wood on occasion, but just can't
> seem to find the time to do it that way, and it doesn't seem to taste
> the same from a WSM as it did from a brick pit or a pit built by a
> welder buddy.
>
>
> Some of the newer style of bbq is good stuff, and I certainly have
> modified my recipes and techniques over the years. I am not a
> professional, it is just something I like to do, and it seems like 30
> years ago everyone was doing it the old way. No one I knew barbecued
> on something that came from a home improvement store.
>
> Thinking about it now as I write this, I wonder if I miss the
> barbecue or all the processes involved. It was an activity I really
> looked forward to when we could all get together. But I haven't
> played horsehoes in years, much less with a beer in my hand with
> little pieces of ice on the can.
>
> Robert
>

Real barbecue is when my in-laws fired up the charcoal grill and cook
hamburgers on the grate covered with aluminum foil.

Being a Yankee city boy, I never knew what a brisket was or pork barbecue.
I was training a new salesman in a new plant we built in Durham . The first
day we stopped for lunch at a place that had "barbecue". It was nothing
like I've ever had. That was in 1986 and I've been on a quest for barbecue
in all forms ever since. That trip to NC and later, internet access, was a
major change in my knowledge of outdoor cooking.

Thanks for the story. Brought back some memories of what we used to do,
even if it was not barbecue.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Aug 8, 5:07 pm, Steve Wertz > wrote:

> If you're nostalgic for Texas Barbecue and cooking (and it sound
> like you are), you might be interested in the "Texas Cowboy
> Cookbook", by Robb Walsh. Currently going for $11 at CostCo in
> Austin. It just came out recently. It's an equal mix of
> recipes, pictures, and narrative.

Thanks for the tip. After typing that out, I am thinking that as much
as anything I am missing the whole process and ritual. I will check
those out, and actually have a half priced books about 2 miles from
the house.

This year I am going to Czhilispiel in Flatonia in October to remember
what it was like 30 years ago. This year they are having a chili
cookoff AND a barbecue cookoff at the same time.

A huge difference from other get togethers is that you actually get to
taste and buy both chili and bbq there. the last two chili events and
the last bbq event I went to no one could taste any product. It was
like a private party that we were invited to watch, so that made it no
fun. None of the participants had that much to do with the crowd
which was certainly well within their rights. But most of these I had
been to before you were able to sample all the product you wanted for
the price of beer tickets.

At any rate, all proceeds go to the different high school clubs. They
promised roaming cowboy groups during the day, about 60 vendors (not a
junk fair), pie eating and judging, and all manner of stuff for the
kiddos. And as the lady in the Chamber of Commerce told me, "more
cold beer than anyone could drink". Shiner and the brewery are only
30 minutes from the shindig, so it sounds like fun to me.

Robert

On Aug 8, 4:27 pm, Nobody > wrote:

> We'd do steaks and
> burgers on it mostly, and if we wanted Ribs, we got >them from a small beer joint called Bruner's. Ocey slow >smoked his ribs and they were
> served already sauced with a KC-style >catsup/mustard/molasses. There
> were no butts or briskets cooked on that old grill, and >the only fuel was wood we'd split and stack alongside.

There you go. Barbecue on Saturday/Sunday at a beer joint in Texas
used to be something we all took for granted. At my favorite bar, all
of us got together and brought something, anything, and we all ate all
day and drank at the bar out in the back. In some small towns you can
still drive through small towns and at the local watering holes it
isn't unusual to see the grill fired up, especially if the Cowboys are
on in the fall.

> Later, in another state, I built a masonry smoker, went >through several R2D2 cookers and several gas >grills. To be honest, there's a place for all of them and >none is either perfect or patentey defective.

I have came to appreciate many years ago that the pit master was the
key. And I agree, I have seen some of the most nasty, rusty, leaky,
things turn out some excellent bbq. One of my friends has done a
couple of small mods on his Brinkmann, and although he screws with it
constantly while cooking, he turns out some great food on it.
Conversely, I have seen some highly pedigreed equipment that people
were disappointed in as "It" didn't turn out good barbecue.


> Since it's hotter than hades here in the desert about 10 >months a year, i cook about 90% of my food outdoors >and experiment with different techniques for >entertainment.

I do the same. I like the pit and cooking things outside. But this
weekend they are saying it will be about 97 on Sunday with about 75 -
80% humidity. I will be smoking baby backs, chicken and sausage for a
small family get together, the exact amount of folks unknown. When it
gets that hot and humid, I don't even enjoy beer anymore, I drink iced
tea all day.

It won't be bad, though. I'll do all my prep and I'll be off the pit
in about 5 -6 hours, no more. Too bad none of them play horsehoes...

Robert