I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:

1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.

The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
cup sugar.

I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.

How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
pink and brown spots?

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:
> I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>
> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>
> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
> cup sugar.
>
> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>
> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
> pink and brown spots?
>
> -sw

Steve, I think you will be alright. 48 hrs is a bit short, but you did pump
the ham with a bit more solution than I have ever used, and it dissapates
through the meat pretty fast. The best way is to locate an artery or 3, and
use the existing circulatory system to distribute the brine. Make sure you
give it a good squirt or 4 along the bones.

Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use more
than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100 lbs of meat
(sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to taste. Should be as
salty as seawater (or blood)

Shawn Martin wrote:
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>
>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>
>> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
>> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
>> cup sugar.
>>
>> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
>> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>>
>> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
>> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
>> pink and brown spots?
>>
>> -sw
>
> Steve, I think you will be alright. 48 hrs is a bit short, but you did pump
> the ham with a bit more solution than I have ever used, and it dissapates
> through the meat pretty fast. The best way is to locate an artery or 3, and
> use the existing circulatory system to distribute the brine. Make sure you
> give it a good squirt or 4 along the bones.
>
> Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use more
> than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100 lbs of meat
> (sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to taste. Should be as
> salty as seawater (or blood)
>
>

I didn't even know what Praque Powder was so I googled it and found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage_making

From what they describe there, you are using way, way too much PP. It
might even be dangerous. Keep in mind that I know nothing about this,
just what your post enticed me to explore. I love the 'net!

/dave a

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:18:27 -0600, Shawn Martin wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>
>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>
>> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
>> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
>> cup sugar.
>>
>> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
>> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>>
>> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
>> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
>> pink and brown spots?
>
> Steve, I think you will be alright. 48 hrs is a bit short, but you did pump
> the ham with a bit more solution than I have ever used, and it dissapates
> through the meat pretty fast. The best way is to locate an artery or 3, and
> use the existing circulatory system to distribute the brine.

The doctor was out. Plus the pig was already dead. Otherwise I
would have given him an IV drip.

(I've heard of arterial pump-brining but I always consider if
far-out of reach for the home briner of pre=packaged pork parts.
Anybody have any links on the subject?)

> Make sure you
> give it a good squirt or 4 along the bones.

That I did.

> Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use more
> than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100 lbs of meat
> (sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to taste. Should be as
> salty as seawater (or blood)

I was in a hurry and looked at recipe in here that said to use
1/4cup for 5 quarts. I used the stronger brine for the
injection, then watered it down to the above strength.

I double checked that phrase "1/4 cup quart brine" on a Google
search and it seemed like a common ratio. Most of the ratios I
saw was weighed, and I don't have a scale.

-sw

-sw

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:27:07 -0800, dave a wrote:

> Shawn Martin wrote:
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>> I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>>
>>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>>
>>> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
>>> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
>>> cup sugar.
>>>
>>> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
>>> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>>>
>>> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
>>> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
>>> pink and brown spots?
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> Steve, I think you will be alright. 48 hrs is a bit short, but you did pump
>> the ham with a bit more solution than I have ever used, and it dissapates
>> through the meat pretty fast. The best way is to locate an artery or 3, and
>> use the existing circulatory system to distribute the brine. Make sure you
>> give it a good squirt or 4 along the bones.
>>
>> Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use more
>> than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100 lbs of meat
>> (sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to taste. Should be as
>> salty as seawater (or blood)
>>
>
> I didn't even know what Praque Powder was so I googled it and found this
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage_making
>
> From what they describe there, you are using way, way too much PP. It
> might even be dangerous. Keep in mind that I know nothing about this,
> just what your post enticed me to explore. I love the 'net!

I haven't read the link, but there is a huge difference in adding
it directly to meat, and using it in a brine.

-sw

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:18:27 -0600, Shawn Martin wrote:

> Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use more
> than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100 lbs of meat
> (sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to taste. Should be as
> salty as seawater (or blood)

I just looked it up again and the info came from Reg, who uses
this stuff in his sleep. So I know I'm on the right track.

1 tsp is way to little for a gallon of brine. You, like Dave,
are assuming using a measurement for dry cure instead of a wet
brine.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:18:27 -0600, Shawn Martin wrote:
>
>> Next time you can cut down on the prague powder a bit. I never use
>> more than a teaspoon per gallon. A quarter cup would cure about 100
>> lbs of meat (sausage, ground) 1 tsp per gallon, then add salt to
>> taste. Should be as salty as seawater (or blood)
>
> I just looked it up again and the info came from Reg, who uses
> this stuff in his sleep. So I know I'm on the right track.
>
> 1 tsp is way to little for a gallon of brine. You, like Dave,
> are assuming using a measurement for dry cure instead of a wet
> brine.
>
> -sw

Prolly right there. But no matter. Since you are goung to smoke roast it,
it really shouldn't need any at all, unless you're shoot ing for that bright
pink ham look (and taste)

Make sure you show us some pictures.

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:42:03 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:

> I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>
> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>
> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
> cup sugar.

Another question, which I'll find out in a few hours - do the
nitrites interfere with the pullability? I just hacked a piece
off the picnic at 155F and it seems kinda firm for a 155F piece
of pork.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>
> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>
> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
> cup sugar.
>
> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>
> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
> pink and brown spots?
>
> -sw
>
>
Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite. Given what you used above,
you injected a solution containing slightly over 1100 PPM[parts per million]
by weight of Na nitrite. Thats slightly more than 5 times the 200 PPM
allowed by the FDA in any cured meat product. I'd wait a bit for the polyps
to reveal themselves if they're going to, and then think strongly about a
colonoscopy.

Kent

Kent <Kent >> wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>
>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>
>> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
>> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
>> cup sugar.
>>
>> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
>> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>>
>> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
>> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
>> pink and brown spots?
>>
>> -sw
>>
>>
> Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite. Given what you used above,
> you injected a solution containing slightly over 1100 PPM[parts per million]
> by weight of Na nitrite. Thats slightly more than 5 times the 200 PPM
> allowed by the FDA in any cured meat product. I'd wait a bit for the polyps
> to reveal themselves if they're going to, and then think strongly about a
> colonoscopy.

I injected it into meat where it was absorbed into the meat. Did
you take the weight of the meat into account?

Now please go **** yourself with your constant nitrite bullshit.

-sw

Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> Kent <Kent >> wrote:
>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>>>
>>>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>>>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>>>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>>>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
> [ . . . ]
>> I injected it into meat where it was absorbed into the meat. Did
>> you take the weight of the meat into account?
>
> Steve, the recommendation is to use 1-1/2 tsp of Prague powder # 1 for 7.5
> lbs of meat. Based on your description, you injected it with about 3 times
> that recommendation. I've had Kent killfiled for years. Try it!

[Well, if you want to get technical, I used about 10 times more than
your recommendation]

But...

For the last time (everybody listen now), you use much more nitrite
when you brine than your would when dry curing. 1/3rd cup for 6
quarts of water is even less than some professionals use. Note that
the injection was stronger than my actual brine, but very little
liquid stayed injected and equalized once it was placed into a
brine. I used 6 quarts of water all together for 1/3rd cup P#1.

Ed just a posted a recipe today that uses 3oz's of prague for 5
quarts of water. Which is even stronger than what I used, but
that's still a common measure meant for a *BRINE*.

Now, if anybody wants to argue about it any more, then why don't you
just come to Austin where I can kick your ass in person.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> Kent <Kent >> wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>>
>>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>>
>>> The remaining solution was mixed with another 3 quarts water and
>>> another 1/2 cup salt, as well as some spices/aromatics and a half
>>> cup sugar.
>>>
>>> I'm not going for a full-out ham, but something kinda in between.
>>> This will be hot-smoked like a regular, unbrined picnic.
>>>
>>> How long should I let this brine? I was hoping to cook it on
>>> Sunday after 48 hours in brine/injection. Will I have a mix of
>>> pink and brown spots?
>>>
>>> -sw
>>>
>>>
>> Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite. Given what you used above,
>> you injected a solution containing slightly over 1100 PPM[parts per
>> million]
>> by weight of Na nitrite. Thats slightly more than 5 times the 200 PPM
>> allowed by the FDA in any cured meat product. I'd wait a bit for the
>> polyps
>> to reveal themselves if they're going to, and then think strongly about a
>> colonoscopy.
>
> I injected it into meat where it was absorbed into the meat. Did
> you take the weight of the meat into account?
>
> Now please go **** yourself with your constant nitrite bullshit.
>
> -sw
>
>
Again, you don't inject a solution containing 1100 PPM of nitrate directly
into muscle if you want to avoid GI tract CA.

Kent

Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:
>>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>> Kent <Kent >> wrote:
>>>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>>>>>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>>>>>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>>>>>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>> [ . . . ]
>>>> I injected it into meat where it was absorbed into the meat. Did
>>>> you take the weight of the meat into account?
>>>
>>> Steve, the recommendation is to use 1-1/2 tsp of Prague powder # 1 for
>>> 7.5 lbs of meat. Based on your description, you injected it with about
>>> 3 times that recommendation. I've had Kent killfiled for years. Try it!
>>
>> [Well, if you want to get technical, I used about 10 times more than
>> your recommendation]
>>
>> But...
>>
>> For the last time (everybody listen now), you use much more nitrite
>> when you brine than your would when dry curing. 1/3rd cup for 6
>> quarts of water is even less than some professionals use. Note that
>> the injection was stronger than my actual brine, but very little
>> liquid stayed injected and equalized once it was placed into a
>> brine. I used 6 quarts of water all together for 1/3rd cup P#1.
>>
>> Ed just a posted a recipe today that uses 3oz's of prague for 5
>> quarts of water. Which is even stronger than what I used, but
>> that's still a common measure meant for a *BRINE*.
>>
>> Now, if anybody wants to argue about it any more, then why don't you
>> just come to Austin where I can kick your ass in person.
>
> Not arguing, Steve. Just telling you what I found.
>
> BTW To 1 gallon of brine, add 3 Oz by weight of Instacure #1

Exactly. That's *more* than I used. That's quite a bit more than
1.5 teaspoons.

> Next time I come to Austin, you're welcome to try and kick my ass, but
> you'll think you tried to shove butter up a wildcat's ass with a hot awl!
> ;-D

I'm looking forward to it (the former, not the later) !

-sw

Kent <Kent >> wrote:

> Again, you don't inject a solution containing 1100 PPM of nitrate directly
> into muscle if you want to avoid GI tract CA.

But you said the USDA claims that 200ppm are allowed in cured meat
products. So wouldn't injecting 1100ppm (if that's even accurate
which I doubt) *into* meat, significantly lower the actual
concentration of nitrites?

Don't answer that, just **** off, OK? Everytime somebody mentions
nitrites you break out your calculator and spreadsheets and throw
these misleading figures around like a dumbass.

And to top it off, you started this concurrently with the thread in
ba.food. You really are a glutton for abuse and stupidity, you
know? Jerry Sauk had (RIP) had nothing on you.

-sw

Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:
>>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>> Nick Cramer <Nick Cramer >> wrote:
>>>>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>>>> Kent <Kent >> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have a 7.5lb pork picnic that I:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1/4 cup praque #1 and 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt dissolved in 2
>>>>>>>> quarts of water. This solution was injected into about 25 spots
>>>>>>>> all over and into the picnic. I used about 3 cups, minus some
>>>>>>>> squirtage which was dumped back into the solution.
>>>>> [ . . . ]
>>>>>> I injected it into meat where it was absorbed into the meat. Did
>>>>>> you take the weight of the meat into account?
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve, the recommendation is to use 1-1/2 tsp of Prague powder # 1
>>>>> for 7.5 lbs of meat. Based on your description, you injected it with
>>>>> about 3 times that recommendation. I've had Kent killfiled for years.
>>>>> Try it!
>>>>
>>>> [Well, if you want to get technical, I used about 10 times more than
>>>> your recommendation]
>>>>
>>>> But...
>>>>
>>>> For the last time (everybody listen now), you use much more nitrite
>>>> when you brine than your would when dry curing. 1/3rd cup for 6
>>>> quarts of water is even less than some professionals use. Note that
>>>> the injection was stronger than my actual brine, but very little
>>>> liquid stayed injected and equalized once it was placed into a
>>>> brine. I used 6 quarts of water all together for 1/3rd cup P#1.
>>>>
>>>> Ed just a posted a recipe today that uses 3oz's of prague for 5
>>>> quarts of water. Which is even stronger than what I used, but
>>>> that's still a common measure meant for a *BRINE*.
>>>>
>>>> Now, if anybody wants to argue about it any more, then why don't you
>>>> just come to Austin where I can kick your ass in person.
>>>
>>> Not arguing, Steve. Just telling you what I found.
>>>
>>> BTW To 1 gallon of brine, add 3 Oz by weight of Instacure #1
>>
>> Exactly. That's *more* than I used. That's quite a bit more than
>> 1.5 teaspoons.
>
> The 1.5 tsp is for dry rub curing the 7.5 lbs of meat. Have you RK's book?

I know that. I specifically said I was brining - like 10 times -
and you told me the measure for dry curing as if I was doing it
wrong.

Injecting is brining, BTW. Granted, I used both methods.

-sw