My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
tried again today with the following changes:

- One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
- Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
- Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165

It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
I had a few samples pulling it ...

One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
to 188.

Enjoy your weekend!

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:45:21 -0700 (PDT), Tim >
wrote:

>My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
>disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
>tried again today with the following changes:
>
>- One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
>- Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
>have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
>- Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
>It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
>The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
>I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
>One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
>final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
>first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
>it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
>to 188.
>
>Enjoy your weekend!


You need to wait. The temp will hold for a long time then go up. IT
WILL. No need to raise the heat. Don't rush it. Low and slow.

If your pit temp is 220 your meat temp can not go above that. Time.
It's done when it's done.

10 min to pull pork with 2 forks. I never use forks. This is what I
do:

I smoke at 220-225 for as long as it takes to reach 185. About 1 1/2
hours per #. But not always.
At 185 I pull the pork off and wrap it in foil, then a thick towel,
then put it in a cooler for anywhere between 45 min. to an hour.
When I unwrap the thing falls apart. 185 because the temp of the roast
will go up by 5-10 degrees as it rests.
I "pull" with my hands as needed.

I too use sand. Gave up water a long time ago as discussed to death in
another thread.

Hope this is of use.

Cheers!

--

" Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

Tim wrote:
> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
> tried again today with the following changes:
>
> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> to 188.

I suspect your temp measurements. Possibly you are measuring temps up high but
the meat is down low where it's cooler. Or maybe your thermometer is out of
calibration. You can test this latter by sticking it in a cup of ice water,
where it should read close to 32, then in a pan of boiling water, where it
should read close to 212.

Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.

I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.

GWE

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:11:40 -0700, Grant Erwin
> wrote:

>Tim wrote:
>> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
>> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
>> tried again today with the following changes:
>>
>> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
>> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
>> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
>> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>>
>> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
>> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
>> I had a few samples pulling it ...
>>
>> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
>> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
>> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
>> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
>> to 188.
>
>I suspect your temp measurements. Possibly you are measuring temps up high but
>the meat is down low where it's cooler. Or maybe your thermometer is out of
>calibration. You can test this latter by sticking it in a cup of ice water,
>where it should read close to 32, then in a pan of boiling water, where it
>should read close to 212.
>
>Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
>I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.
>
>GWE

You make some very good points here!

195? Or 195 pull temp? Just curious.


--

" Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

On Jul 3, 9:11*pm, Grant Erwin > wrote:

> Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
> I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.

Yup, and yup.

Dana

"Tim" > wrote in message
>
> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> to 188.
>
> Enjoy your weekend!

I run mine at 250+. Works well even at 300. The meat will get stuck at
the 170 range as the fat renders and the collagen breaks down. Then it goes
up to the 190 range and falls apart.

On Jul 3, 9:13*pm, VegA > wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:11:40 -0700, Grant Erwin
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Tim wrote:
> >> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> >> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. *Thanks to you, I
> >> tried again today with the following changes:
>
> >> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> >> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> >> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> >> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
> >> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> >> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> >> I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
> >> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> >> final internal temp? *I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> >> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. *Then I let
> >> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> >> to 188.
>
> >I suspect your temp measurements. Possibly you are measuring temps up high but
> >the meat is down low where it's cooler. Or maybe your thermometer is out of
> >calibration. You can test this latter by sticking it in a cup of ice water,
> >where it should read close to 32, then in a pan of boiling water, where it
> >should read close to 212.
>
> >Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
> >I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.
>
> >GWE
>
> You make some very good points here!
>
> 195? Or 195 pull temp? Just curious.

195 internal, remove from the cooker and rest (wrapped).
Then pull.

Dana

Tim wrote:

> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> to 188.

It doesn't need to go to 190, but you just leave it i longer. You don't need
to increase your pit temp.
--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

On 3-Jul-2009, Tim > wrote:

> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
> tried again today with the following changes:
>
> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> to 188.
>
> Enjoy your weekend!

That butt just wanted more time. It was hung up at the plateau where
collagen starts to convert go gelatin. Eventually it has to reach pit
temperature if you let it go. That said, there's no need to cook butts
at that low a pit temperature. I cook mine at about 270F pit temp
and take them out to 185 to 200. I've had one or two get to 205F
before I got them out. Not a problem. Just got a little thicker bark
on it at the end close to the firebox. Cooking at 270°F, I generally
gets butts out in ~7 hours. Don't sweat the small stuff and always
remember, "It's all small stuff".

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)

On 4-Jul-2009, "Nunya Bidnits" >
wrote:

> In ster.com,
> Brick > typed:
> > On 3-Jul-2009, Tim > wrote:
> >
> >> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> >> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
> >> tried again today with the following changes:
> >>
> >> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> >> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> >> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> >> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
> >>
> >> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> >> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> >> I had a few samples pulling it ...
> >>
> >> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> >> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> >> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I
> >> let it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I
> >> finally got to 188.
> >>
> >> Enjoy your weekend!
> >
> > That butt just wanted more time. It was hung up at the plateau where
> > collagen starts to convert go gelatin. Eventually it has to reach pit
> > temperature if you let it go. That said, there's no need to cook butts
> > at that low a pit temperature. I cook mine at about 270F pit temp
> > and take them out to 185 to 200. I've had one or two get to 205F
> > before I got them out. Not a problem. Just got a little thicker bark
> > on it at the end close to the firebox. Cooking at 270°F, I generally
> > gets butts out in ~7 hours. Don't sweat the small stuff and always
> > remember, "It's all small stuff".
>
> So here's a question for everybody...
>
> Since you want pulled pork to be a good combination of savory bark and
> sweet
> white internal meat, it would seem that a good Maillard reaction is
> necessary to achieve the ideal "Mr. Brown - Miss White" state of affairs.
>
> It's my understanding that the Maillard reaction, a complex reaction
> similar
> to, but yielding better flavor than, carmelization, is based on a
> combination of protein, carbohydrate, and heat in excess of 314F and
> requires a dry surface. Carmelization is a less complex reaction which
> can
> take place at lower temps which is a reaction between heat and
> carbohydrates.
>
> Often pork is seasoned with sugars in the rub, greatly enhancing the
> amount
> of available carbohydrate from carmelization. It would seem that at the
> temps most of us use to cook pork, we get a lot of carmelization, but
> cannot
> achieve that extra-flavorful crusty bark of a Maillard reaction.
>
> This would seem to argue the case for hot-starting the pork.
>
> Injecting the pork would prevent this from happening since the surface
> needs
> to be dry, which also argues against any kinds of liquids being applied
> until the desired result is achieved.
>
> I hot started ribs today, 350 at 20 min, and then let the temp slide down
> gradually to about 250. It's giving me a very nice flavor. They aren't
> done
> yet, but testing from the tip pieces which are still a little tough
> reveals
> a very nice flavor.
>
> Comments, anyone?

Too complicated for me. My 'Q' is plenty good enough as it it.

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)

Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> So here's a question for everybody...
>
> Since you want pulled pork to be a good combination of savory bark and sweet
> white internal meat, it would seem that a good Maillard reaction is
> necessary to achieve the ideal "Mr. Brown - Miss White" state of affairs.
>
> It's my understanding that the Maillard reaction, a complex reaction similar
> to, but yielding better flavor than, carmelization, is based on a
> combination of protein, carbohydrate, and heat in excess of 314F and
> requires a dry surface. Carmelization is a less complex reaction which can
> take place at lower temps which is a reaction between heat and
> carbohydrates.
>
> Often pork is seasoned with sugars in the rub, greatly enhancing the amount
> of available carbohydrate from carmelization. It would seem that at the
> temps most of us use to cook pork, we get a lot of carmelization, but cannot
> achieve that extra-flavorful crusty bark of a Maillard reaction.
>
> This would seem to argue the case for hot-starting the pork.

A good question with a simple answer.

Though most texts you'll find regarding the Maillard reaction
refer to a temperature range of 300 F or more, the fact is
that 300+ is the temperature range that it happens most readily.
It does occur at lower temps, but at a slower rate. So, the
effect is a function of both time and temp, not just temp.

Because of this, your Q gets all the browning effects you need
by virtue of the long cooking times. You don't even actually
need to add sugars, all the necessary components are already there
in the meat. Most of the rather superficial texts you see on
the net about the Maillard reaction fail to reveal this key point.

On Jul 4, 12:07*am, VegA > wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:45:21 -0700 (PDT), Tim >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> >disappointing because the pork was not very tender. *Thanks to you, I
> >tried again today with the following changes:
>
> >- One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> >- Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> >have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> >- Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
> >It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> >The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> >I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
> >One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> >final internal temp? *I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> >first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. *Then I let
> >it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> >to 188.
>
> >Enjoy your weekend!
>
> You need to wait. The temp will hold for a long time then go up. IT
> WILL. No need to raise the heat. Don't rush it. Low and slow.
>
> If your pit temp is 220 your meat temp can not go above that. Time.
> It's done when it's done.
>
> 10 min to pull pork with 2 forks. I never use forks. This is what I
> do:
>
> I smoke at 220-225 for as long as it takes to reach 185. About 1 1/2
> hours per #. But not always.
> At 185 I pull the pork off and wrap it in foil, then a thick towel,
> then put it in a cooler for anywhere between 45 min. to an hour.
> When I unwrap the thing falls apart. 185 because the temp of the roast
> will go up by 5-10 degrees as it rests.
> I "pull" with my hands as needed.
>
> I too use sand. Gave up water a long time ago as discussed to death in
> another thread.
>
> Hope this is of use.
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
>
> " Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
> illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
> mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
> entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

Thanks - I'll check for threads about sand vs. water.

After the meat came off the smoker, I did wrap it in foil and let it
sit on the counter for about an hour before I pulled it. I didn't
have any gloves - it was still pretty hot so I had to use some
hardware. But it didn't take much effort to pull it all other than to
set aside the fat that was inside the meat.

Very tasty! Thanks for the info.

On Jul 4, 12:11*am, Grant Erwin > wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
> > disappointing because the pork was not very tender. *Thanks to you, I
> > tried again today with the following changes:
>
> > - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
> > - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
> > have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
> > - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>
> > It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
> > The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
> > I had a few samples pulling it ...
>
> > One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
> > final internal temp? *I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
> > first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. *Then I let
> > it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
> > to 188.
>
> I suspect your temp measurements. Possibly you are measuring temps up high but
> the meat is down low where it's cooler. Or maybe your thermometer is out of
> calibration. You can test this latter by sticking it in a cup of ice water,
> where it should read close to 32, then in a pan of boiling water, where it
> should read close to 212.
>
> Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
> I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.
>
> GWE

Thanks - I will check my thermometer. I had a probe in the meat
itself, and then there is a second probe about 1/2" above the grate
where the meat is. My wife bought be a really nice thermometer that
will check both food and smoker temp, and has a remote readout so I
can wander a little while the meat smokes. So the temp should be
accurate assuming the thermometer is accurate.

I appreciate the feedback.

On Jul 4, 1:12*am, Dana K6JQ > wrote:
> On Jul 3, 9:11*pm, Grant Erwin > wrote:
>
> > Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
> > I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.
>
> Yup, and yup.
>
> Dana

OK - I was trying to keeping it around 225 max. I guess I need to
adjust my definition of "low".

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Tim >
wrote:

>On Jul 4, 12:07Â*am, VegA > wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:45:21 -0700 (PDT), Tim >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
>> >disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Â*Thanks to you, I
>> >tried again today with the following changes:
>>
>> >- One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
>> >- Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
>> >have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
>> >- Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>>
>> >It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
>> >The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
>> >I had a few samples pulling it ...
>>
>> >One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
>> >final internal temp? Â*I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
>> >first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Â*Then I let
>> >it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
>> >to 188.
>>
>> >Enjoy your weekend!
>>
>> You need to wait. The temp will hold for a long time then go up. IT
>> WILL. No need to raise the heat. Don't rush it. Low and slow.
>>
>> If your pit temp is 220 your meat temp can not go above that. Time.
>> It's done when it's done.
>>
>> 10 min to pull pork with 2 forks. I never use forks. This is what I
>> do:
>>
>> I smoke at 220-225 for as long as it takes to reach 185. About 1 1/2
>> hours per #. But not always.
>> At 185 I pull the pork off and wrap it in foil, then a thick towel,
>> then put it in a cooler for anywhere between 45 min. to an hour.
>> When I unwrap the thing falls apart. 185 because the temp of the roast
>> will go up by 5-10 degrees as it rests.
>> I "pull" with my hands as needed.
>>
>> I too use sand. Gave up water a long time ago as discussed to death in
>> another thread.
>>
>> Hope this is of use.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> --
>>
>> " Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
>> illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
>> mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
>> entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
>
>Thanks - I'll check for threads about sand vs. water.
>
>After the meat came off the smoker, I did wrap it in foil and let it
>sit on the counter for about an hour before I pulled it. I didn't
>have any gloves - it was still pretty hot so I had to use some
>hardware. But it didn't take much effort to pull it all other than to
>set aside the fat that was inside the meat.
>
>Very tasty! Thanks for the info.

Congrats!

Glad it worked for you

--

" Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

"Brick" > wrote in message
ster.com...

> That butt just wanted more time. It was hung up at the plateau
> where
> collagen starts to convert go gelatin. Eventually it has to
> reach pit
> temperature if you let it go. That said, there's no need to cook
> butts
> at that low a pit temperature. I cook mine at about 270F pit
> temp
> and take them out to 185 to 200. I've had one or two get to 205F
> before I got them out. Not a problem. Just got a little thicker
> bark
> on it at the end close to the firebox. Cooking at 270°F, I
> generally
> gets butts out in ~7 hours. Don't sweat the small stuff and
> always
> remember, "It's all small stuff".

Something to consider is that the lower cooking temp dries out the
bark more, IMHO. Since I really enjoy a lot of bark or "Mr.
Brown," in my pulled pork, that's a positive. Of course there's a
happy middle ground. How about a poll sometime where the
contributors post Cooking Temp _________ Done Temp
______________ ?

--
Nonny

.. . . on a darned diet
and ready to chew off
my own elbows.

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:11:40 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:

> Tim wrote:
>> My first attempt at pulled pork was disappointing - tasty, but
>> disappointing because the pork was not very tender. Thanks to you, I
>> tried again today with the following changes:
>>
>> - One 8# Boston butt ( instead of 2 6 1/2# )
>> - Sand instead of water in the water pan, pan covered with foil ( I
>> have to admit, I still don't understand why sand - but it worked )
>> - Final internal temp of 188 instead of 165
>>
>> It only took me about 10 minutes to pull it apart using two forks.
>> The only bad thing - it's not being served until tomorrow dinner, but
>> I had a few samples pulling it ...
>>
>> One question: what should the smoker temp be if I I want ~190 for the
>> final internal temp? I didn't let it go above 225 or 230 for the
>> first 10 hours and the internal temp wouldn't go past 175. Then I let
>> it go up to about 280 for the last hour and a half, and I finally got
>> to 188.
>
> I suspect your temp measurements. Possibly you are measuring temps up high but
> the meat is down low where it's cooler. Or maybe your thermometer is out of
> calibration. You can test this latter by sticking it in a cup of ice water,
> where it should read close to 32, then in a pan of boiling water, where it
> should read close to 212.
>
> Most guys use a real cooker temp of 225-250.
>
> I take pork shoulders (butts) to 195 minimum.

I never go past 190F. I don't like the texture of anything past
195. It still shreds just fine and has better texture. I shred by
taking large chunks of meat and smashing it down on the cutting
board with a pan or large bladed knife. No waiting for it to cool.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> I never go past 190F. I don't like the texture of anything past
> 195. It still shreds just fine and has better texture. I shred by
> taking large chunks of meat and smashing it down on the cutting
> board with a pan or large bladed knife. No waiting for it to cool.
>
> -sw

I was taught to pull and sauce while hot. You get better flavor penetration.