On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:58:22 GMT, Eddie >
wrote:

>
>OK, so can anyone, or John O tell me how you do this to someone who
>has always just thrown in the whole bird?

Use serious kitchen scissors or shears.

>And doesn't it do something to the presentation?

Um, yeah.

> I mean, you bring in
>the turkey from the Q'er and there it is on a plate, all cut up in
>pieces?

A spatchcocked bird isn't cut up in pieces. It has had the backbone
removed so that the bird lays flat on the grill
..
>But if the taste is better cut up, I'll try it. But just how is it
>done? And sounds like detaching the leg and thighs is easier.

I wouldn't think so. You can spatchcock a chicken in a couple minutes.
A turkey might take a minute or two more.

>And when do you separate, before the brine, after the brine?

I don't think it would make any difference if you did it before or
after.




--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Anything, when cooked in large enough batches, will be vile."
--Dag Right-square-bracket-gren, in alt.religion.kibology

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:

> A spatchcocked bird isn't cut up in pieces. It has had the backbone
> removed so that the bird lays flat on the grill

The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with it's back
removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat blocking backbone and
accompanying useless tissue tossed.
> .
>> But if the taste is better cut up, I'll try it. But just how is it
>> done? And sounds like detaching the leg and thighs is easier.
>
> I wouldn't think so. You can spatchcock a chicken in a couple minutes.
> A turkey might take a minute or two more.
>
>> And when do you separate, before the brine, after the brine?
>
> I don't think it would make any difference if you did it before or
> after.

Onliest difference it will make is more room in your brining vessel.
Brining has no effect on dark meat. Dark meat doesn't need enhancement. It
has flavor all on it's own. Breast meat has no flavor and needs
enhancement.

TFM®
(Oh, if scissors ain't available, a big ass knife and good strong hands work
as well)

Eddie wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:23:40 GMT, "The Fat Man®"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with it's
>> back removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat blocking
>> backbone and accompanying useless tissue tossed.
> TFM, what picture?


Sorry, musta been on alt.binaries.food

Saw a turkey with the backbone cut out, but other than that altercation it
was sitting on a cooker rack (Kamado methinks) tits up like most folks cook
'em.

My cheesy ISP doesnt' hold messages too long on the binary groups, so I
can't go back to retrieve it. (tried)

TFM®

Eddie typed:

>> TFM®
>> (Oh, if scissors ain't available, a big ass knife and good strong hands work
>> as well)
> Thanks guys, but you still haven't told me *how* to cut out the
> backbone. Any site with pics I can go to?
> Remember, I have never done this before.
> Eddie

This is about chicken, BUT if you'll just think bigger...
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/spatch.htm

BOB
ps, while you're on that site, snoop around a bit, he has a link to *almost*
anything

Eddie wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:23:40 GMT, "The Fat Man®"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with it's
>> back removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat blocking
>> backbone and accompanying useless tissue tossed.
> TFM, what picture?
>
>
>
>>
>> TFM®
>> (Oh, if scissors ain't available, a big ass knife and good strong
>> hands work as well)
> Thanks guys, but you still haven't told me *how* to cut out the
> backbone. Any site with pics I can go to?
> Remember, I have never done this before.
> Eddie

Eddie,
A turkey has pretty heavy bones and since you got a pretty big bird (24 lbs)
it's going to take a heavy cutting implement to do the job. Lay the bird
breast down then make two parallel cuts, begining at the neck, one on either
side of the backbone (the cuts will be about an inch and a half, maybe two
inches apart) through the skin and as much meat as possible until you hit
bone, all the way down to the butt. Chop through the exposed bones with a
cleaver, bigass butcher knife, heavy shears, whatever you have that'll do
the job. When you're done you'll have a backbone and a bird.
Save the backbone for stock.
Spread the incision open to break the breastbone. Cut it if you have to,
that's OK.
Then turn the bird over and mash it down some more to make it as flat as
possible, that way it'll cook evenly.
It's really not as hard as it might seem - just hack that backbone out any
way you can.
Jack Curry

>>> The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with it's
>>> back removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat blocking
>>> backbone and accompanying useless tissue tossed.
>> TFM, what picture?



I found a reply to the pic I saw, so I know I'm not hallucinating. <G> Here
it is below. I've asked for a copy of the pic, so if you want, I'll email
it directly to you, or I can put it on the web where you can access it with
just a click.

G Wiv's reply follows;

Nice, very nice. I'cut out the backbone before, but always lay it
flat, I break the breastbone as well. I never thought of leaving the
breastbone intact and leaving the turkey in a more natural shape.

Nice picture, good idea, thanks for posting.

Regards

Smoking in Chicago,
Gary

The Fat Man® wrote:
> Eddie wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:23:40 GMT, "The Fat Man®"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with it's
>>> back removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat blocking
>>> backbone and accompanying useless tissue tossed.
>> TFM, what picture?
>
>
> Sorry, musta been on alt.binaries.food
>
> Saw a turkey with the backbone cut out, but other than that
> altercation it was sitting on a cooker rack (Kamado methinks) tits up
> like most folks cook 'em.
>
> My cheesy ISP doesnt' hold messages too long on the binary groups, so
> I can't go back to retrieve it. (tried)
>
> TFM®

Ah. You reminded me, TFM. Eddie, go to alt.binaries.food and I'll post a
series of pictures showing how it's done.
Jack Curry

Eddie wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:03:45 GMT, "Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Eddie,
>> A turkey has pretty heavy bones and since you got a pretty big bird
>> (24 lbs) it's going to take a heavy cutting implement to do the job.
>> Lay the bird breast down then make two parallel cuts, begining at
>> the neck, one on either side of the backbone (the cuts will be about
>> an inch and a half, maybe two inches apart) through the skin and as
>> much meat as possible until you hit bone, all the way down to the
>> butt. Chop through the exposed bones with a cleaver, bigass butcher
>> knife, heavy shears, whatever you have that'll do the job. When
>> you're done you'll have a backbone and a bird. Save the backbone for
>> stock. Spread the incision open to break the breastbone. Cut it if
>> you have to, that's OK.
>> Then turn the bird over and mash it down some more to make it as
>> flat as possible, that way it'll cook evenly.
>> It's really not as hard as it might seem - just hack that backbone
>> out any way you can.
>> Jack Curry
> Thanks Jack. I'll study your above method a little. Yes, it's a big
> ass bird alright.
> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> Eddie

That'll work, but why not try a cleaver first? Might be less messy. Stand
the bird on its ass end on a cutting board and chop downward through the
ribs. Or use your saw, whatever you're most comfortable with, it doesn't
matter how you do it.
Jack Curry

Jack Curry wrote:
> The Fat Man® wrote:
>> Eddie wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:23:40 GMT, "The Fat Man®"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The pic accompanying that post simply showed a bird with
>>>> it's back removed. Not smashed flat, jut with the useless, heat
>>>> blocking backbone and accompanying useless tissue tossed.
>>> TFM, what picture?
>>
>>
>> Sorry, musta been on alt.binaries.food
>>
>> Saw a turkey with the backbone cut out, but other than that
>> altercation it was sitting on a cooker rack (Kamado methinks) tits up
>> like most folks cook 'em.
>>
>> My cheesy ISP doesnt' hold messages too long on the binary groups, so
>> I can't go back to retrieve it. (tried)
>>
>> TFM®
>
> Ah. You reminded me, TFM. Eddie, go to alt.binaries.food and I'll
> post a series of pictures showing how it's done.
> Jack Curry


Jack, I was talking about John O's turkey that had been semi-spatchcocked.
It had the backbone cut out, but hadn't been flattened.

G Wiv was kind enough to repost and I emailed it to Eddie. Hope he didn't
have his address mangled.

Not to detract, your series of pics is quite informative for those not in
the know on spatchcocking. (heh, that word is as fun to type as it is to
say)

TFM®

Eddie wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:03:45 GMT, "Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry
> > wrote:
>
> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> Eddie

Sounds AWSOME, you my kinda guy there Ed, take pictures, action ones with
fleshy bits flying!
Heck with the sterilization, you are cooking the bird, aintcha?

D
--

Jack Curry wrote:

>> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
>> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
>> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
>> Eddie
>
> That'll work, but why not try a cleaver first? Might be less messy.


Messy or not, a good sawz-all can be had cheaper than a good cleaver.

TFM®

In ,
Eddie > typed:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:04:04 GMT, "The Fat Man®"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I found a reply to the pic I saw, so I know I'm not hallucinating. <G> Here
>> it is below. I've asked for a copy of the pic, so if you want, I'll email
>> it directly to you, or I can put it on the web where you can access it with
>> just a click.
> Got it. Thanks.
> I went to BOB's nakedwhiz site and has great pictures on how to cut.
> It's on a chicken, but like BOB says, "think bigger." And yes, has
> great links to other stuff.
> But I'm a K man, wouldn't it be treasonous if went to a Big Green Egg
> site? <g>
> Eddie

NO! I've got 3 Kamados, and they even let me play in the "Green" room every now
and then, if I'm nice. (can't compare the cookers, but it's in my profile, and I
*do* mention what I cook on)

The Naked Whiz site has links to ALL of the ceramic websites, as well as a lump
charcoal comparisum ( http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lump.htm ) and many great recipes.
By the way, TNW website isn't really part of the green website. He just owns a
couple of eggs.

BOB

In om,
The Fat Man® > typed:
> Jack Curry wrote:
>
>>> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
>>> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
>>> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
>>> Eddie
>>
>> That'll work, but why not try a cleaver first? Might be less messy.
>
>
> Messy or not, a good sawz-all can be had cheaper than a good cleaver.
>
> TFM®

Not really... http://wokshop.com/HTML/products/cle...rs_knives.html

Good quality (maybe not GREAT) but excellent prices. I've got a carbon steel from
them, it holds a pretty good edge, is easy to re-sharpen and was about 10 USD
about 4 or 5 years ago.

BOB

In article >, Eddie
> wrote:

> Got it. Thanks.
> I went to BOB's nakedwhiz site and has great pictures on how to cut.
> It's on a chicken, but like BOB says, "think bigger." And yes, has
> great links to other stuff.
> But I'm a K man, wouldn't it be treasonous if went to a Big Green Egg
> site? <g>

Whiz is a time honored K forum member-welcome with all the rank and
privilege that conveys (or izzat purveys?)
His site IS aces-and his double ceramic citizenry paperwork is totally
in order. He's cleared at all borders.

monroe(love the flashback movie-deserves an Oscar)

Monroe, of course... knowyerchicken typed:
> In article >, Eddie
> > wrote:
>
>> Got it. Thanks.
>> I went to BOB's nakedwhiz site and has great pictures on how to cut.
>> It's on a chicken, but like BOB says, "think bigger." And yes, has
>> great links to other stuff.
>> But I'm a K man, wouldn't it be treasonous if went to a Big Green Egg
>> site? <g>
>
> Whiz is a time honored K forum member-welcome with all the rank and
> privilege that conveys (or izzat purveys?)
> His site IS aces-and his double ceramic citizenry paperwork is totally
> in order. He's cleared at all borders.
>
> monroe(love the flashback movie-deserves an Oscar)

I'd forgot about that flashback movie, complete with the music! He says that
there is another in the making next time his wifey leaves for a few days...

BOB
going to watch that movie again now LOL

"The Fat Man®" > wrote in message
om...
> Jack Curry wrote:
>
> >> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> >> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> >> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> >> Eddie
> >
> > That'll work, but why not try a cleaver first? Might be less messy.
>
>
> Messy or not, a good sawz-all can be had cheaper than a good cleaver.
>
> TFM®

OP needs a pair of "cast cutter" scissors. You've seen the TV ads showing
them cut a penny in half. The 99-cent store sells them now for...well, 99
cents.


CC

> I went to BOB's nakedwhiz site and has great pictures on how to cut.
> It's on a chicken, but like BOB says, "think bigger." And yes, has
> great links to other stuff.

FWIW at this point, I used some crappy Pampered Chef kitchen shears to cut
out the backbone of that bird. I couldn't find the good shears that morning.
:-|

You're cutting through the ribs, and bad shears just make for more cuts. No
good reason for not flattening it, I just left it alone after the
spinectomy.

Good Luck, Eddie!

John O

Eddie...I just posted another view of the same bird at alt.binaries.food.

John O

"Eddie" > wrote in message
...
> Would somebody explain this procedure. I read that the ideal turkey
> size for smoking is 12 lbs. or less. and:
> " If a larger turkey has been mistakenly purchased, detach the dark
> meat sections (leg and thigh portions) from the breast and smoke the
> turkey parts separately. This procedure should result in the best
> possible results."
>
> Well, I did *not* "mistakenly purchase" my 24 pounder for TG. I use a
> K7 and John O says "I split a 17-pounder by cutting out the backbone,
> and it cooked in four hours or so at ~250. To me, that's a far better
> solution than removing the dark meat, and it achieves the same thing
> IMO."
>
> OK, so can anyone, or John O tell me how you do this to someone who
> has always just thrown in the whole bird?
> And doesn't it do something to the presentation? I mean, you bring in
> the turkey from the Q'er and there it is on a plate, all cut up in
> pieces?
> But if the taste is better cut up, I'll try it. But just how is it
> done? And sounds like detaching the leg and thighs is easier.
> And when do you separate, before the brine, after the brine?
> So many questions, so little time.
> Eddie

Look at the pics of chickens and turkey in abf labeled 'spatchcock'. You
don't even have to cut out the backbone, just cut it so it flattens about
the backbone axis. Set it skin side up and go for it. Instead to the
Norman Rockwell painting turkey, you've got one that's flat. It cooks more
quickly too.

Jack

"Duwop" > wrote in message >...
> Eddie wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:03:45 GMT, "Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry
> > > wrote:
> >
> > So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> > could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> > Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> > Eddie
>
> Sounds AWSOME, you my kinda guy there Ed, take pictures, action ones with
> fleshy bits flying!
> Heck with the sterilization, you are cooking the bird, aintcha?
>
> D


Heck, with a sawzall you have the problem of securing the fowl to get
a nice straight line (they don't sit well in a vise). Same problem
with the chainsaw...

You got a bench saw? Thats the answer, 'cos you can just use the legs
as handles, and run em through...

" BOB" > wrote in message >. ..
> In om,
> The Fat Man® > typed:
> > Jack Curry wrote:
> >
> >>> So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> >>> could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> >>> Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> >>> Eddie
> >>
> >> That'll work, but why not try a cleaver first? Might be less messy.
> >
> >
> > Messy or not, a good sawz-all can be had cheaper than a good cleaver.
> >
> > TFM®
>
> Not really... http://wokshop.com/HTML/products/cle...rs_knives.html
>
> Good quality (maybe not GREAT) but excellent prices. I've got a carbon steel from
> them, it holds a pretty good edge, is easy to re-sharpen and was about 10 USD
> about 4 or 5 years ago.
>
> BOB


I love my Chinese cleaver from Lee Valley:
<http://www.leevalley.com/gifts/page.asp?page=32457&category=4,104,45477&abspage=1 &ccurrency=2&SID=>

12 bucks-odd plus postage....

Curved, so great for chopping veggies and fixins...

/S

Eddie wrote:
> Would somebody explain this procedure. I read that the ideal turkey
> size for smoking is 12 lbs. or less. and:
<snip>
> OK, so can anyone, or John O tell me how you do this to someone who
> has always just thrown in the whole bird?
> And doesn't it do something to the presentation? I mean, you bring in
> the turkey from the Q'er and there it is on a plate, all cut up in
> pieces?
> But if the taste is better cut up, I'll try it. But just how is it
> done? And sounds like detaching the leg and thighs is easier.
> And when do you separate, before the brine, after the brine?
> So many questions, so little time.

Eh Eddie,

Here's a PDF file from America's Test Kitchen on how to butterfly
(spatchcock) a turkey, with pictures:

http://www.americastestkitchen.com/i...yingTurkey.pdf

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

"Scarlet Pimpernel" > wrote in message
om...
> "Duwop" > wrote in message
>...
> > Eddie wrote:
> > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:03:45 GMT, "Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > So what do you think if I use my Porter-Cable reciprocating saw? I
> > > could use a metal blade, sterilized of course.
> > > Is this a too far-fetched idea?
> > > Eddie
> >
> > Sounds AWSOME, you my kinda guy there Ed, take pictures, action ones
with
> > fleshy bits flying!
> > Heck with the sterilization, you are cooking the bird, aintcha?
> >
> > D
>
>
> Heck, with a sawzall you have the problem of securing the fowl to get
> a nice straight line (they don't sit well in a vise). Same problem
> with the chainsaw...
>
> You got a bench saw? Thats the answer, 'cos you can just use the legs
> as handles, and run em through...


You could also use a spindle shaper or a router, especially if the bird were
still frozen.

Barry

Eddie wrote:


> Nathan, is it my computer or what? But images very difficult to see.
> Text is barely visible also.
> I think I'll take Jack's advise and just split without removing
> backbone.

Yeah, the pictures on the pdf are in a light color. But if you print it
out as black and white, it might be easier to see.

BTW, I contacted Tilia about purchasing a refurbished Pro II model.
They said their only authorized refurbished dealer is Overstock.com . I
haven't seen any Tilia's available on that site yet.

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

Eddie wrote:
(snip turkey question)

why not practice on some chickens? same architecture, just different
scale. use a sharp 8" kitchen knife and cut down both sides of the
backbone. (no need to be close to the backbone, but save the oysters) it
will give you an idea of what you're up against.


--
(signature here)

Eddie wrote:
>> Look at the pics of chickens and turkey in abf labeled 'spatchcock'.
>> You don't even have to cut out the backbone, just cut it so it
>> flattens about the backbone axis. Set it skin side up and go for
>> it. Instead to the Norman Rockwell painting turkey, you've got one
>> that's flat. It cooks more quickly too.
>>
>> Jack
>>
> Jack, you know, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I mean, why
> remove it at all? Makes sense to me.
> I'll do it this way.
> Thanks
> Eddie

Not to contradict my pal Schidt, but the reason the backbone is removed is
because it's a hell of a lot easier, especially on a big bird, to cut down
each side and through a few ribs than it is cutting down the middle of the
full length of turkey vertebrae. For that you *will* need your
reciprocating saw.
Jack Curry

"Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry > wrote in message
om...
> Eddie wrote:
> >> Look at the pics of chickens and turkey in abf labeled 'spatchcock'.
> >> You don't even have to cut out the backbone, just cut it so it
> >> flattens about the backbone axis. Set it skin side up and go for
> >> it. Instead to the Norman Rockwell painting turkey, you've got one
> >> that's flat. It cooks more quickly too.
> >>
> >> Jack
> >>
> > Jack, you know, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I mean, why
> > remove it at all? Makes sense to me.
> > I'll do it this way.
> > Thanks
> > Eddie
>
> Not to contradict my pal Schidt, but the reason the backbone is removed is
> because it's a hell of a lot easier, especially on a big bird, to cut down
> each side and through a few ribs than it is cutting down the middle of the
> full length of turkey vertebrae. For that you *will* need your
> reciprocating saw.
> Jack Curry
>


My explanation was a bit 'fowl'. I cut down one side of the backbone,
through the ribs, and leave the backbone attached. I also should have said
it flattens about the middle of the breasts, not about the backbone. I
could see why you'd need a sawzall to cut the spine. Less cutting, leaving
the backbone attached, plus I prefer to make stock from grilled chicken
parts rather than raw.

Jack

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:59:58 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> wrote:

>
>"Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry > wrote in message
. com...
>> Eddie wrote:
>> >> Look at the pics of chickens and turkey in abf labeled 'spatchcock'.
>> >> You don't even have to cut out the backbone, just cut it so it
>> >> flattens about the backbone axis. Set it skin side up and go for
>> >> it. Instead to the Norman Rockwell painting turkey, you've got one
>> >> that's flat. It cooks more quickly too.
>> >>
>> >> Jack
>> >>
>> > Jack, you know, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I mean, why
>> > remove it at all? Makes sense to me.
>> > I'll do it this way.
>> > Thanks
>> > Eddie
>>
>> Not to contradict my pal Schidt, but the reason the backbone is removed is
>> because it's a hell of a lot easier, especially on a big bird, to cut down
>> each side and through a few ribs than it is cutting down the middle of the
>> full length of turkey vertebrae. For that you *will* need your
>> reciprocating saw.
>> Jack Curry
>>
>
>
>My explanation was a bit 'fowl'. I cut down one side of the backbone,
>through the ribs, and leave the backbone attached. I also should have said
>it flattens about the middle of the breasts, not about the backbone. I
>could see why you'd need a sawzall to cut the spine. Less cutting, leaving
>the backbone attached, plus I prefer to make stock from grilled chicken
>parts rather than raw.
>
>Jack
>
I would disagree here, Jack. I take off the wing tips, the spine, and
any trim & freeze it. i make stock when I have amassed enough bits,
and then I go the whole nine yards - bake them down over veg etc etc
etc.

Harry