Hi Folks -

We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
from me now is a grill!

Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately. So
far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch built-in
grill.

The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.

The 30" DCS is the BGB30-BQR - Street price... $1700

The 36" DCS is the BGB36-BQAR - Street price... $3000

As you can see, the price differential is huge. Here's what I've been able
to determine the 36" has that the 30" doesn't. Based on my research, and
talking to DCS, for the $1300 extra dollars... the 36" DCS gives you -

1. The larger surface (three 25k btu burners instead of 2)
2. A smoker tray with its own 3500 btu burner (no smoker in the 30"), and
3. Better grilling grates (fancy two sided grease control ones, versus
regular steel tube grates in the 30")

That doesn't sound like much for $1300. But before I decide, I wanted to get
some feedback on the value of an integrated smoker tray. I have never used a
smoker, but I'd love to learn. Can a smoker tray allow the grill to cook
certain foods, steaks etc... so they taste as though they were cooked over
charcoal? or are these just used to create beef jerky and other stuff like
that?

Also, does anyone have an opinion about the DCS two sided grilling grates?
Appearently, one side is great for greasy foods and the other side is
perfect for delicate stuff like flaky fish etc... are these new grates
really a nice to have, or is the standard steel grate in the 30" fine as is?

As for price, I am not that price sensitive at this point since the overall
cost of this outdoor area is already through the roof, so $1300 and getting
the wrong grill at this point is something I don't want to do.

Any help suggestions is appreciated.

Tom

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> wrote:

>We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
>a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
>and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
>from me now is a grill!

Buy a Kamado with the gas option. It'll grill, bake, and smoke. Send
the money you save to me.

www.kamado.com

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Anything, when cooked in large enough batches, will be vile."
--Dag Right-square-bracket-gren, in alt.religion.kibology

I suggest your read the faq http://www.bbq-porch.org/faq/default.asp for
this ng before you make any decisions, especially if you have any thoughts
about barbecuing and smoking, which differ completely from grilling. A good
familiarization with these cooking techniques might save you lots of money.

Jack Curry

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> wrote:

>Hi Folks -
>
>We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
>a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
>and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
>from me now is a grill!
>
>Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
>bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately. So
>far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch built-in
>grill.
>
>The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>
>The 30" DCS is the BGB30-BQR - Street price... $1700
>
>The 36" DCS is the BGB36-BQAR - Street price... $3000
>
>As you can see, the price differential is huge. Here's what I've been able
>to determine the 36" has that the 30" doesn't. Based on my research, and
>talking to DCS, for the $1300 extra dollars... the 36" DCS gives you -
>
>1. The larger surface (three 25k btu burners instead of 2)
>2. A smoker tray with its own 3500 btu burner (no smoker in the 30"), and
>3. Better grilling grates (fancy two sided grease control ones, versus
>regular steel tube grates in the 30")
>
>That doesn't sound like much for $1300. But before I decide, I wanted to get
>some feedback on the value of an integrated smoker tray. I have never used a
>smoker, but I'd love to learn. Can a smoker tray allow the grill to cook
>certain foods, steaks etc... so they taste as though they were cooked over
>charcoal? or are these just used to create beef jerky and other stuff like
>that?
>
>Also, does anyone have an opinion about the DCS two sided grilling grates?
>Appearently, one side is great for greasy foods and the other side is
>perfect for delicate stuff like flaky fish etc... are these new grates
>really a nice to have, or is the standard steel grate in the 30" fine as is?
>
>As for price, I am not that price sensitive at this point since the overall
>cost of this outdoor area is already through the roof, so $1300 and getting
>the wrong grill at this point is something I don't want to do.
>
>Any help suggestions is appreciated.
>
>Tom
>


I have the DCS 36" model and I like it a lot. The grates are nice to
have and they work well. The smoker tray is also a plus, but it really
isn't a substitute for a "real" smoker. When I want to smoke some pork
shoulders, I fire up the Kamado for a day or two. When I just want to
grill some steaks and shrimp for a quick summer dinner, the DCS is
nice to have. The smoker tray may let you add a little more flavor,
but the food is generally not on the grill long enough for the smoke
to make much of a difference, at least the way I use it.

For my money, the most important difference between the two models is
the increased grilling surface. I'm always running out of space, even
on the 36" model. The other nice thing about the 36" model is that you
get three burners and can control the heat more precisely than you can
with the two burner model. This is especially nice when you want to
cook over indirect heat.

"Tom Newton" > wrote in message
> 1. The larger surface (three 25k btu burners instead of 2)

Depends on the size of your family or frequency of parties.


> 2. A smoker tray with its own 3500 btu burner (no smoker in the 30"), and

It will be good for when you cook a chicken or pork roast to add smoke
flavor. I don' tknow that it willmake what we refer to as barbecue though.


> 3. Better grilling grates (fancy two sided grease control ones, versus
> regular steel tube grates in the 30")

That is worth something but hard to put a price tag on.

>
> That doesn't sound like much for $1300.

It is a #13200 upgrade today. It is a $3000 upgrade next year should you be
unhappy wihtt he smaller grill.


>But before I decide, I wanted to get
> some feedback on the value of an integrated smoker tray. I have never used
a
> smoker, but I'd love to learn. Can a smoker tray allow the grill to cook
> certain foods, steaks etc... so they taste as though they were cooked over
> charcoal? or are these just used to create beef jerky and other stuff like
> that?

It will add some smoke flavor. How much? Never u se the DCS so I can't
say. Steaks are usually coooked over very high heat with the lid open.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

In rec.food.equipment Tom Newton > wrote:

> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
> from me now is a grill!

> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.

Well, if you aren't totally fixed on the DCS yet, may I suggest
you check out www.topgrill.com ? They have a very wide variety
of sizes and options, and will even custom build to suit if necessary.

I go one of their web specials a year or two ago and it is
and awesome gill. Not much good as a smoker, but from what
others are saying the DCS won't be either. Oh, by the way,
their 24" grill is as big or bigger than my old 36" CharBroil.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

DCS

At this pricepoint you are so obscenely far away from "value for the dollar"
that it's impossible to say whether another $1300 is money well spent or
not.

As the others point out, a gas grill cannot make "real" barbeque. That being
said, you can add a little smoke flavor to your food with some wood chips,
and if you use an indirect method (1 burner on, pan of water over the
burner, food over side where burner is not on) you can come close to the
low temperatures and moist heat needed for barbeque. But you don't need a
special built in smoke box to do this - you can even wrap the wood chips in
foil and rest them on the burner. You won't win any competitions this way,
but a gas grill can be used for more than just grilling steaks.

Ditto on the grates- the fancy ones are nice, but you could achieve the
same thing with a $5 perforated grate for delicate foods. For steaks,
burgers, etc. the standard grate is fine.


"Tom Newton" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Folks -
>
> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to
create
> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
> from me now is a grill!
>
> Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
> bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately.
So
> far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch
built-in
> grill.
>
> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>
> The 30" DCS is the BGB30-BQR - Street price... $1700
>
> The 36" DCS is the BGB36-BQAR - Street price... $3000
>
> As you can see, the price differential is huge. Here's what I've been able
> to determine the 36" has that the 30" doesn't. Based on my research, and
> talking to DCS, for the $1300 extra dollars... the 36" DCS gives you -
>
> 1. The larger surface (three 25k btu burners instead of 2)
> 2. A smoker tray with its own 3500 btu burner (no smoker in the 30"), and
> 3. Better grilling grates (fancy two sided grease control ones, versus
> regular steel tube grates in the 30")
>
> That doesn't sound like much for $1300. But before I decide, I wanted to
get
> some feedback on the value of an integrated smoker tray. I have never used
a
> smoker, but I'd love to learn. Can a smoker tray allow the grill to cook
> certain foods, steaks etc... so they taste as though they were cooked over
> charcoal? or are these just used to create beef jerky and other stuff like
> that?
>
> Also, does anyone have an opinion about the DCS two sided grilling grates?
> Appearently, one side is great for greasy foods and the other side is
> perfect for delicate stuff like flaky fish etc... are these new grates
> really a nice to have, or is the standard steel grate in the 30" fine as
is?
>
> As for price, I am not that price sensitive at this point since the
overall
> cost of this outdoor area is already through the roof, so $1300 and
getting
> the wrong grill at this point is something I don't want to do.
>
> Any help suggestions is appreciated.
>
> Tom
>
>

Thanks Jack -

Being from NY, I didn't know what barbeque means, but now I do.

In NY the word Barbecue is:

1) a verb meaning "to grill," and
2) a party or get together when you put things on a grill!

Actually, I shouldn't say I had no idea what barbecue means... I was in
kansas city last year, and had some real barbecue.... but I can't help
thinking barbecue is grilling related - sorry.

At any rate, I guess what I really want to do with the DCS, and what we
really do in our back yards around here is GRILL, over flame, all sorts of
stuff - especially burgers, dogs, steaks, corn, lobster, shrimp etc...

So I guess as I look at the 36" DCS versus the 30" ... the smoker box is a
relatively useless addition for people who grill or for people who "do
barbecue"

Tom

Tom Newton wrote:
> Thanks Jack -
>
> Being from NY, I didn't know what barbeque means, but now I do.

This will help you even more, Tom.
http://www.bbq-porch.org/faq/default.asp

Dave

Yes, I agree - I grew up in Joisey and "barbecue" was a synonym for
"grill" - as in "I'll barbecue some hot dogs". There is a whole barebecue
subculture that takes its 'cue very seriously and calling a grill a barbecue
(the device or the process) is fightin' words.

Once you get your gas grill, with or without smoker box, you will find that
it can indeed be used for more than just grilling. If you learn the method
of "indirect cooking" it can do just about anything you could do with your
oven (plus add a little smoke flavor too). A lot of people get gas grills,
use them for burgers & steaks and little more and don't realize the full
potential of the device to do things like whole turkeys, etc.


"Tom Newton" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Jack -
>
> Being from NY, I didn't know what barbeque means, but now I do.
>
> In NY the word Barbecue is:
>
> 1) a verb meaning "to grill," and
> 2) a party or get together when you put things on a grill!
>
> Actually, I shouldn't say I had no idea what barbecue means... I was in
> kansas city last year, and had some real barbecue.... but I can't help
> thinking barbecue is grilling related - sorry.
>
> At any rate, I guess what I really want to do with the DCS, and what we
> really do in our back yards around here is GRILL, over flame, all sorts of
> stuff - especially burgers, dogs, steaks, corn, lobster, shrimp etc...
>
> So I guess as I look at the 36" DCS versus the 30" ... the smoker box is a
> relatively useless addition for people who grill or for people who "do
> barbecue"
>
> Tom
>
>

Make sure you get a rotisserie. Knowing the maximum size turkey you can
roto on each model might help you make a decision.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"


"Tom Newton" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Folks -
>
> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to
create
> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
> from me now is a grill!
>
> Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
> bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately.
So
> far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch
built-in
> grill.
>
> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>
> The 30" DCS is the BGB30-BQR - Street price... $1700
>
> The 36" DCS is the BGB36-BQAR - Street price... $3000
>
> As you can see, the price differential is huge. Here's what I've been able
> to determine the 36" has that the 30" doesn't. Based on my research, and
> talking to DCS, for the $1300 extra dollars... the 36" DCS gives you -
>
> 1. The larger surface (three 25k btu burners instead of 2)
> 2. A smoker tray with its own 3500 btu burner (no smoker in the 30"), and
> 3. Better grilling grates (fancy two sided grease control ones, versus
> regular steel tube grates in the 30")
>
> That doesn't sound like much for $1300. But before I decide, I wanted to
get
> some feedback on the value of an integrated smoker tray. I have never used
a
> smoker, but I'd love to learn. Can a smoker tray allow the grill to cook
> certain foods, steaks etc... so they taste as though they were cooked over
> charcoal? or are these just used to create beef jerky and other stuff like
> that?
>
> Also, does anyone have an opinion about the DCS two sided grilling grates?
> Appearently, one side is great for greasy foods and the other side is
> perfect for delicate stuff like flaky fish etc... are these new grates
> really a nice to have, or is the standard steel grate in the 30" fine as
is?
>
> As for price, I am not that price sensitive at this point since the
overall
> cost of this outdoor area is already through the roof, so $1300 and
getting
> the wrong grill at this point is something I don't want to do.
>
> Any help suggestions is appreciated.
>
> Tom
>
>

Jack Denver wrote:
> you
> can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
> barbeque.

Moist heat - another urban myth.
--
-frohe
Life is too short to be in a hurry

Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on the steam
injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?


"frohe" > wrote in message
...
> Jack Denver wrote:
> > you
> > can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
> > barbeque.
>
> Moist heat - another urban myth.
> --
> -frohe
> Life is too short to be in a hurry
>
>

"Jack Denver" > wrote in message
...
> "frohe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jack Denver wrote:
> > > you
> > > can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
> > > barbeque.
> >
> > Moist heat - another urban myth.
> > --

> Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on the
steam
> injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?
>
>
baking is scien ce and bbq is art--there is a difference
Buzz

Buzz1 wrote:
> "Jack Denver" > wrote in message
>> "frohe" > wrote in message
>>> Jack Denver wrote:
>>>> you
>>>> can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
>>>> barbeque.
>>>
>>> Moist heat - another urban myth.
>>> --
>> Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on
>> the steam injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?
>>
> baking is scien ce and bbq is art--there is a difference
> Buzz

Maybe Denver meant "moist heat needed for baquing".

D
--

"Buzz1" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jack Denver" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "frohe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Jack Denver wrote:
> > > > you
> > > > can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
> > > > barbeque.
> > >
> > > Moist heat - another urban myth.
> > > --
>
> > Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on the
> steam
> > injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?
> >
> >
> baking is scien ce and bbq is art--there is a difference
> Buzz
>


LOL . And some people still think fire is "magic," too.

Frohe wasn't talking about BBQ specifically - he said that moist heat is an
"urban myth". I suppose that technically speaking, heat is heat, and there
is no such thing as "moist heat", but there is such a thing as cooking in
the presence/absence of water/steam and this has an influence on the
results. - otherwise broccoli steamed in a closed steamer at 212 would be
the same as broccoli baked on a cookie sheet in the oven at 212 and it's
clearly not.

OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist heat, why
do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?


"Duwop" > wrote in message
...
> Buzz1 wrote:
> > "Jack Denver" > wrote in message
> >> "frohe" > wrote in message
> >>> Jack Denver wrote:
> >>>> you
> >>>> can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
> >>>> barbeque.
> >>>
> >>> Moist heat - another urban myth.
> >>> --
> >> Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on
> >> the steam injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?
> >>
> > baking is scien ce and bbq is art--there is a difference
> > Buzz
>
> Maybe Denver meant "moist heat needed for baquing".
>
> D
> --
>
>
>

In article >, "Jack Denver"
> wrote:

> OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist heat, why
> do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?

The pan is to shield the meat from the direct heat of the fire.
Lo-n-slo cooking is usually (but not always)done with indirect heat.
The water is optional-it acts chiefly as a heat sink-some people use
sand in the pan instead of water-some folks use an empty pan (as I do)
The moisture from the boiling water does zippidee for the moistness of
the meat.
Take a tenderloin and boil it until well done. You'll find when you
slice it the meat will be as dry as a bone, even though it was swimming
in water while it was being cooked.
Water in meat leaves on a pretty much one-way ticket-never to return.
You can steam, mop, shoot, slop, baste and glop all you want but you
won't replace a single drop of moisture back into the meat.

monroe(there's sometimes a fine line between done and dried)

Jack Denver wrote:
> Frohe wasn't talking about BBQ specifically - he said that moist heat
> is an "urban myth".

You are wrong. Here is the original exchange:

>>> Jack Denver wrote:
>>>> you
>>>> can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
>>>> barbeque.
>>>
Frohe wrote:
>>> Moist heat - another urban myth.

He addressed your post about the necessity of moist heat for bbq.

> OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist
> heat, why do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?

To regulate temps. Many here are replacing water with sand to get rid of the
excess moisture water results in or to use sand, or even better, are
learning to control temps without any crutch.

D
--

"Jack Denver" > wrote in message
...
> Frohe wasn't talking about BBQ specifically - he said that moist heat is
an
> "urban myth". I suppose that technically speaking, heat is heat, and
there
> is no such thing as "moist heat", but there is such a thing as cooking in
> the presence/absence of water/steam and this has an influence on the
> results. - otherwise broccoli steamed in a closed steamer at 212 would be
> the same as broccoli baked on a cookie sheet in the oven at 212 and it's
> clearly not.

As frying gives a different result that cooking in a crock pot, also.

> OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist heat,
why
> do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?

The water pans are used to provide some amount of mass to dampen out
temperature fluctuations. Many have reported that using sand instead of
water in the water pan gives essentially the same cooking results, less the
hassle of having to refill with water every few hours on those long cooks.

I myself have wondered about the difference between steam and "dry steam"
also. Seems like an oxymoron.

CSS wrote:
> "Buzz1" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jack Denver" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "frohe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Jack Denver wrote:
>>>>> you
>>>>> can come close to the low temperatures and moist heat needed for
>>>>> barbeque.
>>>>
>>>> Moist heat - another urban myth.
>>>> --
>>
>>> Please explain ? Do you mean that they are wasting their money on the steam
>>> injection ovens found in commercial bakeries?
>>>
>>>
>> baking is scien ce and bbq is art--there is a difference
>> Buzz
>>
>
>
> LOL . And some people still think fire is "magic," too.

Ya mean it's not???

Another "belief" shot all to hell!

BOB
'-)

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:14:52 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> wrote:

>
>OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist heat, why
>do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?

If there is no such thing as "moist heat," then most definitions of
braising are incorrect.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a university somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

I accept what you are saying about the sand. Would this be equally true in
an electric smoker - I believe that combustion of wood/gas produces a lot of
water vapor even without a water pan (hydrogen in fuel combines with oxygen
in air and makes H20)? Also, would not the dryness of the atmosphere at
least influence whether there was drying at the surface and the rate of
moisture loss from the meat? Why is a meatball cooked in sauce moister than
a hamburger cooked on a grill?

Regarding the tenderloin, my understanding of meat cookery is that up to
150F internal, the meat is indeed contracting and squeezing juices out of
itself. However, above 150, the collagen in between the fibers starts to
melt into gelatin and become softer. At this point the muscle fibers are no
longer as tightly bound and some moisture will actually reenter the meat
from the braising liquid. This is why meat has to either be eaten rare
(grilled steak) or well done for a long time (brisket). A tenderloin is a
poor candidate for well done because it lacks collagen, but this same lack
of collagen makes it a good cut for grilling rare. A brisket is the
opposite.


Also it is my understanding that surface moisture does influence our
perception of taste - when you pour the gravy over the dried out turkey
breast we don't perceive it as dry as meat without gravy even though the
gravy just sits on the surface.




"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Jack Denver"
> > wrote:
>
> > OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist heat,
why
> > do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?
>
> The pan is to shield the meat from the direct heat of the fire.
> Lo-n-slo cooking is usually (but not always)done with indirect heat.
> The water is optional-it acts chiefly as a heat sink-some people use
> sand in the pan instead of water-some folks use an empty pan (as I do)
> The moisture from the boiling water does zippidee for the moistness of
> the meat.
> Take a tenderloin and boil it until well done. You'll find when you
> slice it the meat will be as dry as a bone, even though it was swimming
> in water while it was being cooked.
> Water in meat leaves on a pretty much one-way ticket-never to return.
> You can steam, mop, shoot, slop, baste and glop all you want but you
> won't replace a single drop of moisture back into the meat.
>
> monroe(there's sometimes a fine line between done and dried)

In article >, "Jack Denver"
> wrote:

> I accept what you are saying about the sand. Would this be equally true in
> an electric smoker - I believe that combustion of wood/gas produces a lot of
> water vapor even without a water pan (hydrogen in fuel combines with oxygen
> in air and makes H20)? Also, would not the dryness of the atmosphere at
> least influence whether there was drying at the surface and the rate of
> moisture loss from the meat? Why is a meatball cooked in sauce moister than
> a hamburger cooked on a grill?

I dunno about extra or excess drying in an electric smoker-haven't ever
owned one.
To me-surface drying is exactly what I want in barbecue-The Bark! I
just don't want that dryness to go all the way through the cut. Keeping
the temp low is much more important in keeping the water in the meat
than any other influencing factor.

> Regarding the tenderloin, my understanding of meat cookery is that up to
> 150F internal, the meat is indeed contracting and squeezing juices out of
> itself. However, above 150, the collagen in between the fibers starts to
> melt into gelatin and become softer. At this point the muscle fibers are no
> longer as tightly bound and some moisture will actually reenter the meat
> from the braising liquid. This is why meat has to either be eaten rare
> (grilled steak) or well done for a long time (brisket). A tenderloin is a
> poor candidate for well done because it lacks collagen, but this same lack
> of collagen makes it a good cut for grilling rare. A brisket is the
> opposite.

Exactly. Collagen is more prevalent in tough cuts. The rendering fat in
a brisket helps remoisten the meat. It fills in for the braising
liquid, so to speak. The large part of this rendering is done at temps
over 160F. I'd think that even so the liquids(water or fat) are pretty
much leaving the meat-never to return. I've never gotten braising
liquid to penetrate a roast thoroughly until the meat has completely
broken into rags (a la ragout)
>
> Also it is my understanding that surface moisture does influence our
> perception of taste - when you pour the gravy over the dried out turkey
> breast we don't perceive it as dry as meat without gravy even though the
> gravy just sits on the surface.

I would contend that the moist mouth feel from gravy is more from the
fat than from the aqueous moisture. Leftover meat wil never be as
moist as it was freshly cooked.

monroe(gentle, low, indirect)

Jack Denver wrote:
> Frohe wasn't talking about BBQ specifically

Yes, I was talkin about BBQ specifically.

> OK, I'll rephrase my response - if there's no such thing as moist
> heat, why do many BBQ smokers come with water pans?

Never said there's no such thang as moist heat; that's not the issue. But
to think you have to have moist heat to Q is an urban myth and one you need
get shed of.

Those smokers come with pans because most folks couldn't control a fire if
they're life depended on it. The end result bein a huge fire in the cooker
that could do damage to life and property. So, they put a water pan in
there to act as a shield for the meat and to catch the drippin to prevent
flare-ups.

Go to any old Q joint stuck out in the sticks somewhere and you won't find
no water pan in their pits. It's just wood, heat & meat.
--
-frohe
Life is too short to be in a hurry

> Go to any old Q joint stuck out in the sticks somewhere and you won't find
> no water pan in their pits. It's just wood, heat & meat.
> --
> -frohe
> Life is too short to be in a hurry
>
>

Amen Brother.

Chef

A Kamado on a high buck patio! Now we know what a tasteless piece of
garbage you are. You belong in Idaho.

"Kevin S. Wilson" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> > wrote:
>
> >We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
> >a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
> >and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
> >from me now is a grill!
>
> Buy a Kamado with the gas option. It'll grill, bake, and smoke. Send
> the money you save to me.
>
> www.kamado.com
>
> --
> Kevin S. Wilson
> Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
> "Anything, when cooked in large enough batches, will be vile."
> --Dag Right-square-bracket-gren, in alt.religion.kibology

Kent H. wrote:
> A Kamado on a high buck patio! Now we know what a tasteless piece of
> garbage you are. You belong in Idaho.
>

Your world must be a very confusing place K, you have our sympathies.

Don't forget, this summer is scheduled for your brined bird in a garage
experiment. Do you prefer July or August?

D
--

Tom Newton wrote:

> Hi Folks -
>
> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
> from me now is a grill!
>
> Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
> bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately. So
> far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch built-in
> grill.
>
> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>
> The 30" DCS is the BGB30-BQR - Street price... $1700
>
> The 36" DCS is the BGB36-BQAR - Street price... $3000
>

Look at Fire Magic. They are better made than DCS for about the same
price.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> wrote:

>Hi Folks -
>
>We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
>a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
>and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
>from me now is a grill!
>
>Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
>bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately. So
>far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch built-in
>grill.
>
>The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>
snip
>Any help suggestions is appreciated.
>
>Tom
>
I think a #7 would look very spiffy on your new deck, Tom. Let your
wife pick the tile colour[get the gas option]. It will smoke, grill ,
and BBQ. You won't regret the decision.

Don't send Kevin the money you save, send it to me. ;0).

Plus, I hear the K factory is actually shipping ahead of schedule on
occasion.

You will not regret your decision. Your friends and your Boss will
be very impressed; you will then inevitably get a big promotion and
make more money; this will allow you to put your kids into a better
University and they will graduate and make a bucket. They will be so
gratefull, they will buy you a nice retirement home an a tropical
island. See - you can't go wrong with a Kamado; it's a career making
decision *and* it makes great Que. ;o)

Harry

Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks -
>>
>> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to create
>> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run power
>> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he needs
>> from me now is a grill!
>>
>> Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
>> bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands lately. So
>> far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch built-in
>> grill.
>>
>> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
>>
> snip
>> Any help suggestions is appreciated.
>>
>> Tom
>>
> I think a #7 would look very spiffy on your new deck, Tom. Let your
> wife pick the tile colour[get the gas option]. It will smoke, grill ,
> and BBQ. You won't regret the decision.

It will also bake (breads, pizza, etc.), broil, anything that you can cook in
your oven, plus much more.

>
> Don't send Kevin the money you save, send it to me. ;0).

I won't get into this...I don't really *need* the money <eg>
>
> Plus, I hear the K factory is actually shipping ahead of schedule on
> occasion.
>
> You will not regret your decision. Your friends and your Boss will
> be very impressed; you will then inevitably get a big promotion and
> make more money; this will allow you to put your kids into a better
> University and they will graduate and make a bucket. They will be so
> gratefull, they will buy you a nice retirement home an a tropical
> island. See - you can't go wrong with a Kamado; it's a career making
> decision *and* it makes great Que. ;o)
>
> Harry

Plus, they're fun!

BOB

Thanks for the advice guys .. the K sounds great. I'm taking it under
consideration

Tom



" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:11 -0500, "Tom Newton"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Folks -
> >>
> >> We're building a new deck patio area and my contractor has agreed to
create
> >> a built in grill area at the corner of the deck. He has already run
power
> >> and natural gas from the house to the future grill location. All he
needs
> >> from me now is a grill!
> >>
> >> Since this deck patio area is on the fancy side (and it's costing me a
> >> bundle!), I've been looking into some of the more high end brands
lately. So
> >> far, DCS seems to offer the best package in either a 30 or 36 inch
built-in
> >> grill.
> >>
> >> The current struggle I have is deciding between these two DCS units.
> >>
> > snip
> >> Any help suggestions is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> > I think a #7 would look very spiffy on your new deck, Tom. Let your
> > wife pick the tile colour[get the gas option]. It will smoke, grill ,
> > and BBQ. You won't regret the decision.
>
> It will also bake (breads, pizza, etc.), broil, anything that you can cook
in
> your oven, plus much more.
>
> >
> > Don't send Kevin the money you save, send it to me. ;0).
>
> I won't get into this...I don't really *need* the money <eg>
> >
> > Plus, I hear the K factory is actually shipping ahead of schedule on
> > occasion.
> >
> > You will not regret your decision. Your friends and your Boss will
> > be very impressed; you will then inevitably get a big promotion and
> > make more money; this will allow you to put your kids into a better
> > University and they will graduate and make a bucket. They will be so
> > gratefull, they will buy you a nice retirement home an a tropical
> > island. See - you can't go wrong with a Kamado; it's a career making
> > decision *and* it makes great Que. ;o)
> >
> > Harry
>
> Plus, they're fun!
>
> BOB
>
>

"Duwop" > wrote in message >...
> Kent H. wrote:
> > A Kamado on a high buck patio! Now we know what a tasteless piece of
> > garbage you are. You belong in Idaho.
> >
>
> Your world must be a very confusing place K, you have our sympathies.
>
> Don't forget, this summer is scheduled for your brined bird in a garage
> experiment. Do you prefer July or August?

If you expect follow-through from Kunt you are living
in a dream world.

-- Yip

Update - I ordered the 36" DCS Grill with Smoker Unit

Full report in a month

TN

To comment on various subjects of this thread in no particular order:

1) The wood chip tray is a useful device. I use wood chips in my beloved
but inferior Weber Genesis gas grill. I used to smoke ribs in that before I
bought a dedicated BBQ smoker and my gas grill indirect heat smoked ribs
were excellent. In fact you can easily overpower food with wood chip smoke
in a gas grill. I recommend a unit that supports this, or at the very least
a wood chip smoker box accessory.

2) "Moist heat" is a very real thing in that moist air holds more "heat
energy" then dry air. This is why steaming cooks faster than baking at
212*F for example, and why you feel hot on a muggy day. HVAC people call it
"latent heat" and use a special tool to measure it (a wet bulb I believe?).
I ain't no science genius but it has to do with density.

3) DCS has a unique heat radiating design lending itself quite well to
grilled steaks. I think you'd be thrilled with either.

4) Upon further review of the thread I see the OP already bought a grill and
we're once again debating amongst ourselves. All the better.

Thanks Jason -

Great debate though. I learned the diff between barbecue and grilling, I
learned about the smoker draw, I learned the DCS is a great (albiet
expensive) product... all sorts of good stuff.

Thanks for your comments about the smoker draw -- I'm looking forward to it!
I ordered the DCS 36" grill with smoker, it hasn't shipped yet, but I should
have within a week.

Thanks and happy easter

Tom

....the original poster