Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Temp. and time and results

Ok, so the kids wanted smoked pork-butt yesterday. I cut out a nice
piece from the Costco cry-o-vac and prepped it.
Put it in the K7 using only cherry wood. Made sure the Maverick was
working, set it to 190, and waited hoping it would be done in about 7
or 8 hours. Wrong! Was ready in about 4.5 hrs when the Mav started
to beep saying it hit 190.
But the results were different from the crock-pot over-night 10-hr
cook. With the crock-pot I got super soft pulled-pork, just what I
though I'd get with the K7. After all, it hit 190, right? The K7
result was *not* pulled pork as I was hoping. It was soft, juicy,
sweet, but not soft enough to pull. So instead sliced and used for
sandwiches after letting it sit for an hour or so.
So, I'm thinking, is 190 slow the secret? And 190 fast is not going
to give me pulled pork, rather, pork soft and sliceable, just right
for sandwiches.
Do I make sense?
Now thinking, the next K7 smoke will be using less fuel, lower
temperature, and longer time, hoping I'll get the result I want.
Eddie
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On 8/15/2010 6:42 PM, Eddie wrote:
> Ok, so the kids wanted smoked pork-butt yesterday. I cut out a nice
> piece from the Costco cry-o-vac and prepped it.
> Put it in the K7 using only cherry wood. Made sure the Maverick was
> working, set it to 190, and waited hoping it would be done in about 7
> or 8 hours. Wrong! Was ready in about 4.5 hrs when the Mav started
> to beep saying it hit 190.
> But the results were different from the crock-pot over-night 10-hr
> cook. With the crock-pot I got super soft pulled-pork, just what I
> though I'd get with the K7. After all, it hit 190, right? The K7
> result was *not* pulled pork as I was hoping. It was soft, juicy,
> sweet, but not soft enough to pull. So instead sliced and used for
> sandwiches after letting it sit for an hour or so.
> So, I'm thinking, is 190 slow the secret? And 190 fast is not going
> to give me pulled pork, rather, pork soft and sliceable, just right
> for sandwiches.
> Do I make sense?
> Now thinking, the next K7 smoke will be using less fuel, lower
> temperature, and longer time, hoping I'll get the result I want.
> Eddie




What was the pit temp? That's the important part..

BBQ
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Eddie wrote:

> Do I make sense?


No. Starting with the cutting off of something from a cryo-vac. I have had a
K-7 for over a decade, and I have no problem getting pulled pork from it
cooking at 225F to 250F.

What temp are you cooking at?



--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling


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On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:13:48 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote:

>Eddie wrote:
>
>> Do I make sense?

>
>No. Starting with the cutting off of something from a cryo-vac. I have had a
>K-7 for over a decade, and I have no problem getting pulled pork from it
>cooking at 225F to 250F.
>
>What temp are you cooking at?

Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
have got to over 500*
My problem is trying to keep the temp. down. I think I'm just putting
in too much wood. But when I don't do that I'm concerned that the
temp. will never pass the kill zone.
So if I go with very high temp. should I set the Mav. to over 190 and
settle for fast but hot?
I've never done slow and low on the K7.
Eddie
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On 8/15/2010 10:07 PM, Eddie wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:13:48 -0700, "Dave >
> wrote:
>
>> Eddie wrote:
>>
>>> Do I make sense?

>>
>> No. Starting with the cutting off of something from a cryo-vac. I have had a
>> K-7 for over a decade, and I have no problem getting pulled pork from it
>> cooking at 225F to 250F.
>>
>> What temp are you cooking at?

> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
> have got to over 500*
> My problem is trying to keep the temp. down. I think I'm just putting
> in too much wood. But when I don't do that I'm concerned that the
> temp. will never pass the kill zone.
> So if I go with very high temp. should I set the Mav. to over 190 and
> settle for fast but hot?
> I've never done slow and low on the K7.
> Eddie



The K7 can get a temperature and maintain it very well. But you need to
supply the thermometer. Get an oven thermometer and place it in the
grate. I have also heard of people using a polder and putting the probe
in a potato that sits on the grate. Then, they can monitor the pit temp
without taking off the cover.

I have never heard of someone trying to barbecue anything at temps of
500 or higher. Get the pit temp to 300 and your pulled pork will come
out very well.

BBQ


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On 15-Aug-2010, Eddie > wrote:

> Ok, so the kids wanted smoked pork-butt yesterday. I cut out a nice
> piece from the Costco cry-o-vac and prepped it.
> Put it in the K7 using only cherry wood. Made sure the Maverick was
> working, set it to 190, and waited hoping it would be done in about 7
> or 8 hours. Wrong! Was ready in about 4.5 hrs when the Mav started
> to beep saying it hit 190.
> But the results were different from the crock-pot over-night 10-hr
> cook. With the crock-pot I got super soft pulled-pork, just what I
> though I'd get with the K7. After all, it hit 190, right? The K7
> result was *not* pulled pork as I was hoping. It was soft, juicy,
> sweet, but not soft enough to pull. So instead sliced and used for
> sandwiches after letting it sit for an hour or so.
> So, I'm thinking, is 190 slow the secret? And 190 fast is not going
> to give me pulled pork, rather, pork soft and sliceable, just right
> for sandwiches.
> Do I make sense?
> Now thinking, the next K7 smoke will be using less fuel, lower
> temperature, and longer time, hoping I'll get the result I want.
> Eddie


Eddie, temperature is usually an accurate indicator that meat has
reached the proper point for pulling, but testing for pullability is the
only real way to be sure. Stabbing the meat with a fork after the
therm has indicated it "should" be done and twisting to see if the
fork will in fact twist is a good final check. I use a thermometer
all the time, but they have lied to me a lot. The M1, Mod A eye
ball and a strong carving fork separate the lies from the truth.

--
Brick (Kinky is using a feather.
Perverted is using the whole chicken.)
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Eddie wrote:

> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
> have got to over 500*


You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.

> My problem is trying to keep the temp. down. I think I'm just putting
> in too much wood. But when I don't do that I'm concerned that the
> temp. will never pass the kill zone.


The kill zone isn't an issue, unless you are trying to cook the meat at a
temperature of 180 or lower. The K7 has both a chimney control and a damper
control. What are you setting those at? Are you doing anything to regulate
the cooking temp with those? As to wood, while the K7 can cook with wood in
experienced hands, it appears that you are far from that point right now.
Use a good quality lump charcoal. If no lump, then try to locate a charcoal
briquette which has as few fillers as possible

> So if I go with very high temp. should I set the Mav. to over 190 and
> settle for fast but hot?


NO. You are cooking too small a chunk of meat, way at too high a
temperature. It not only takes temperature, but it takes TIME for that
temperature to properly gelatinize the collagen and other structures which
make pork butt tough. The larger the cut of meat, the higher the cooking
temperature can be.

> I've never done slow and low on the K7.


The principles of bbq are exactly the same on the Kamado as they are for any
other pit. You just need to learn how to control the variables of
temperature with the controls on the Kamado.

Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill surface?
Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling


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On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:07:28 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote:

>Eddie wrote:
>
>> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
>> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
>> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
>> have got to over 500*

>
>You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.

I do have an oven thermometer. But that means opening the dome.
>
>> My problem is trying to keep the temp. down. I think I'm just putting
>> in too much wood. But when I don't do that I'm concerned that the
>> temp. will never pass the kill zone.

>
>The kill zone isn't an issue, unless you are trying to cook the meat at a
>temperature of 180 or lower. The K7 has both a chimney control and a damper
>control. What are you setting those at? Are you doing anything to regulate
>the cooking temp with those? As to wood, while the K7 can cook with wood in
>experienced hands, it appears that you are far from that point right now.
>Use a good quality lump charcoal. If no lump, then try to locate a charcoal
>briquette which has as few fillers as possible

I had set the opening of the top damper at about 1/8th in. and the
lower one at about 1/4 in. I've always used wood and I think you're
right. I don't yet have the experience with wood only. The wood is
great for grilling and smoking foul. But I just haven't got the touch
to do a slow smoke using wood only. The temps just seem to get out of
control. I try to go low but it seems too low, then I try to
compensate by throwing in another log. But that makes the temp spike.

>
>> So if I go with very high temp. should I set the Mav. to over 190 and
>> settle for fast but hot?

>
>NO. You are cooking too small a chunk of meat, way at too high a
>temperature. It not only takes temperature, but it takes TIME for that
>temperature to properly gelatinize the collagen and other structures which
>make pork butt tough. The larger the cut of meat, the higher the cooking
>temperature can be.
>
>> I've never done slow and low on the K7.

>
>The principles of bbq are exactly the same on the Kamado as they are for any
>other pit. You just need to learn how to control the variables of
>temperature with the controls on the Kamado.

Yep, learning how to control the temps can be challenging.
>
>Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill surface?
>Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?

No. I put the logs closer to the grill opening so I can throw more
fuel in and move the meat to the rear.
I've had great success with pulled pork with the crock-pot. But the
kids wanted *smoke* pulled pork.
I guess I'll have to do more K7 smoke until I get it right. I still
have about 12 lbs of port left.
I'll take your advice and put in the larger cut since I'll probably
have high heat unless I can play with the dampers and get the temp
down to the ideal zone.
You didn't mention temperature. Does 300 recommended by BBQ sound
about right?
I will also do the fork twist recommended by Brick.
Thanks much you all
Eddie

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On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
......
>>
>> Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill surface?
>> Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?

> No. I put the logs closer to the grill opening so I can throw more
> fuel in and move the meat to the rear.
> I've had great success with pulled pork with the crock-pot. But the
> kids wanted *smoke* pulled pork.
> I guess I'll have to do more K7 smoke until I get it right. I still
> have about 12 lbs of port left.
> I'll take your advice and put in the larger cut since I'll probably
> have high heat unless I can play with the dampers and get the temp
> down to the ideal zone.
> You didn't mention temperature. Does 300 recommended by BBQ sound
> about right?
> I will also do the fork twist recommended by Brick.
> Thanks much you all
> Eddie
>



Eddie, Please put a space or 2 between the post you're replying to to
and your response. It makes it easier to read.

Instead of using whole logs, maybe try and cut them into large chunks.
Chunks I consider about baseball or softball size. Probably you can go
a bit larger then that for large chunks..

If you're using wood just to use wood (paying for it), maybe switch to
buying lump instead and using a few wood chunks for the smoke.

BBQ
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On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:07:28 -0700, "Dave >
> wrote:
>
>> Eddie wrote:
>>
>>> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
>>> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
>>> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
>>> have got to over 500*

>>
>> You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.

> I do have an oven thermometer. But that means opening the dome.



Don't worry about having to open the dome to check the thermometer.
Yes, it might take a bit longer to cook, but you need to learn how your
cooker performs to. Just don't check every 20 minutes. Probably every
90 minutes until your comfortable with your cooker. Or get a polder and
place the probe in a potato that sits on the grate. The reader can be
outside of the cooker for you to monitor.

BBQ


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bbq > wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
> > "Dave > wrote:
> >> Eddie wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
> >>> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole
> >>> in the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
> >>> have got to over 500*
> >>
> >> You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.

> > I do have an oven thermometer. But that means opening the dome.

>
> Don't worry about having to open the dome to check the thermometer.
> Yes, it might take a bit longer to cook, but you need to learn how your
> cooker performs to. Just don't check every 20 minutes. Probably every
> 90 minutes until your comfortable with your cooker. Or get a polder and
> place the probe in a potato that sits on the grate. The reader can be
> outside of the cooker for you to monitor.


Get two of them or one with two probes. That way, you can monitor both the
grate and meat temps. A lemon or wine bottle cork works as well as a
potato.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops!
http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:10:56 -0500, bbq > wrote:

>On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:07:28 -0700, "Dave >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eddie wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
>>>> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
>>>> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
>>>> have got to over 500*
>>>
>>> You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.

>> I do have an oven thermometer. But that means opening the dome.

>
>
>Don't worry about having to open the dome to check the thermometer.
>Yes, it might take a bit longer to cook, but you need to learn how your
>cooker performs to. Just don't check every 20 minutes. Probably every
>90 minutes until your comfortable with your cooker. Or get a polder and
>place the probe in a potato that sits on the grate. The reader can be
>outside of the cooker for you to monitor.
>
>BBQ


One quick point, I presume you mean *through* rather than *in* the
potato, so the sensing portion of the probe is in the air next to the
grate?

Ross.
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On 17-Aug-2010, bbq > wrote:

> On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
> .....
> >>
> >> Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill
> >> surface?
> >> Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?

> > No. I put the logs closer to the grill opening so I can throw more
> > fuel in and move the meat to the rear.
> > I've had great success with pulled pork with the crock-pot. But the
> > kids wanted *smoke* pulled pork.
> > I guess I'll have to do more K7 smoke until I get it right. I still
> > have about 12 lbs of port left.
> > I'll take your advice and put in the larger cut since I'll probably
> > have high heat unless I can play with the dampers and get the temp
> > down to the ideal zone.
> > You didn't mention temperature. Does 300 recommended by BBQ sound
> > about right?
> > I will also do the fork twist recommended by Brick.
> > Thanks much you all
> > Eddie
> >

>
>
> Eddie, Please put a space or 2 between the post you're replying to to
> and your response. It makes it easier to read.
>
> Instead of using whole logs, maybe try and cut them into large chunks.
> Chunks I consider about baseball or softball size. Probably you can go
> a bit larger then that for large chunks..
>
> If you're using wood just to use wood (paying for it), maybe switch to
> buying lump instead and using a few wood chunks for the smoke.
>
> BBQ



What BBQ said, but I'd not use raw wood for fuel in a K-7. It's not
a reasonable fuel for that machine. Use lump charcoal or charcoal
briquettes and small chunks of wood for smoke only. With charcoal
(or lump) you can run a K-7 at just about any temperature that you
want to for long periods without attention. The kamado is about the
most fuel efficient BBQ machine there is so the expense of lump
will be negligible. Walmart is currently selling Royal Oak lump for
about $0.60/lb.

--
Brick (Kinky is using a feather.
Perverted is using the whole chicken.)
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On Aug 17, 9:05*am, wrote:
> On 17-Aug-2010, bbq > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
> > .....

>
> > >> Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill
> > >> surface?
> > >> Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?
> > > No. *I put the logs closer to the grill opening so I can throw more
> > > fuel in and move the meat to the rear.
> > > I've had great success with pulled pork with the crock-pot. *But the
> > > kids wanted *smoke* pulled pork.
> > > I guess I'll have to do more K7 smoke until I get it right. *I still
> > > have about 12 lbs of port left.
> > > I'll take your advice and put in the larger cut since I'll probably
> > > have high heat unless I can play with the dampers and get the temp
> > > down to the ideal zone.
> > > You didn't mention temperature. *Does 300 recommended by BBQ sound
> > > about right?
> > > I will also do the fork twist recommended by Brick.
> > > Thanks much you all
> > > Eddie

>
> > Eddie, Please put a space or 2 between the post you're replying to to
> > and your response. It makes it easier to read.

>
> > Instead of using whole logs, maybe try and cut them into large chunks.
> > Chunks I consider about baseball or softball size. *Probably you can go
> > a bit larger then that for large chunks..

>
> > If you're using wood just to use wood (paying for it), maybe switch to
> > buying lump instead and using a few wood chunks for the smoke.

>
> > BBQ

>
> What BBQ said, but I'd not use raw wood for fuel in a K-7. It's not
> a reasonable fuel for that machine. Use lump charcoal or charcoal
> briquettes and small chunks of wood for smoke only. With charcoal
> (or lump) you can run a K-7 at just about any temperature that you
> want to for long periods without attention. The kamado is about the
> most fuel efficient BBQ machine there is so the expense of lump
> will be negligible. Walmart is currently selling Royal Oak lump for
> about $0.60/lb.
>


Eddie has a great place to buy hardwood, mesquite lump or wood based
briquets in Brisbane at Lazzari Fuel Co.



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On 8/17/2010 10:48 AM, Ross@home wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:10:56 -0500, > wrote:
>
>> On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:07:28 -0700, "Dave >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eddie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave and BBQ, I don't have a reliable thermometer. I rely a lot on
>>>>> the Mav. I do have a probe thermometer that I stick through a hole in
>>>>> the dome. The needle passed and went around 180. I think it must
>>>>> have got to over 500*
>>>>
>>>> You've got to measure the temperature at the grate, NOT the dome.
>>> I do have an oven thermometer. But that means opening the dome.

>>
>>
>> Don't worry about having to open the dome to check the thermometer.
>> Yes, it might take a bit longer to cook, but you need to learn how your
>> cooker performs to. Just don't check every 20 minutes. Probably every
>> 90 minutes until your comfortable with your cooker. Or get a polder and
>> place the probe in a potato that sits on the grate. The reader can be
>> outside of the cooker for you to monitor.
>>
>> BBQ

>
> One quick point, I presume you mean *through* rather than *in* the
> potato, so the sensing portion of the probe is in the air next to the
> grate?
>
> Ross.



True. I noticed that error after it was posted !!!! Can't recall
usenet messages !!!

Thanks for clarification..

BBQ
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:04:54 -0500, bbq > wrote:

>On 8/16/2010 10:16 PM, Eddie wrote:
>.....
>>>
>>> Do you have a deflector of some kind between the fire and the grill surface?
>>> Something like a pizza stone, a big baking sheet, or a large cake pan?

>> No. I put the logs closer to the grill opening so I can throw more
>> fuel in and move the meat to the rear.
>> I've had great success with pulled pork with the crock-pot. But the
>> kids wanted *smoke* pulled pork.
>> I guess I'll have to do more K7 smoke until I get it right. I still
>> have about 12 lbs of port left.
>> I'll take your advice and put in the larger cut since I'll probably
>> have high heat unless I can play with the dampers and get the temp
>> down to the ideal zone.
>> You didn't mention temperature. Does 300 recommended by BBQ sound
>> about right?
>> I will also do the fork twist recommended by Brick.
>> Thanks much you all
>> Eddie
>>

>
>
>Eddie, Please put a space or 2 between the post you're replying to to
>and your response. It makes it easier to read.


Ok, I use Agent and see the replies in a different color. That way I
can easily see the difference between the OP and the reply. I did not
know that other newsreaders were different. I've been using Agent
since 1997 and have no idea how other readers work. Sorry for the
confusion.
>
>Instead of using whole logs, maybe try and cut them into large chunks.
>Chunks I consider about baseball or softball size. Probably you can go
>a bit larger then that for large chunks..
>
>If you're using wood just to use wood (paying for it), maybe switch to
>buying lump instead and using a few wood chunks for the smoke.


I think I'll take Brick's advice and start using lump. I'll check out
the Wal-Mart lump as Lazzari is too far and WM is only 1 mi. away.
btw, I do have a probe. It's the Maverick I was referring to in my
earlier post.
And the wood I buy is cured and aged. I buy it by the truck load
(small Toyota size) from a small fruit farm in Morgan Hill. Last time
I bought I paid $40 for a load of half cherry, half apricot.
It has lasted me about 5 years and still have a few logs left. But
now since I'll be switching to lump, I'll take your advice and cut
them into chunks and use them for the smoke.
Thanks again.
Eddie
>
>BBQ

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On 17-Aug-2010, Eddie > wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:04:54 -0500, bbq > wrote:
>


.. . .

> I think I'll take Brick's advice and start using lump. I'll check out
> the Wal-Mart lump as Lazzari is too far and WM is only 1 mi. away.
> btw, I do have a probe. It's the Maverick I was referring to in my
> earlier post.
> And the wood I buy is cured and aged. I buy it by the truck load
> (small Toyota size) from a small fruit farm in Morgan Hill. Last time
> I bought I paid $40 for a load of half cherry, half apricot.
> It has lasted me about 5 years and still have a few logs left. But
> now since I'll be switching to lump, I'll take your advice and cut
> them into chunks and use them for the smoke.
> Thanks again.
> Eddie
> >
> >BBQ


I think you'll be a lot happier using lump in your K Eddie. Now Om
and I could make use of all that nice cherry. It will work quite nicely
in our offset cookers. It's still more bother then lump or briquettes
though, but an offset wastes enough heat to allow sufficient airflow
to keep the fuel burning without the heat going too high. You might
note from Om's posts though, that she cooks somewhat hotter
then most folks do. That's mainly because raw wood needs quite
a bit of air to support adequate combustion to burn off the tar while
at the same time making more heat then is really wanted. I quit
using raw wood for that reason.

--
Brick (Kinky is using a feather.
Perverted is using the whole chicken.)
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