 |
|
| Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
|||
|
|||
Why US BBQ is superior??????????/
Hi everybody,
Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much more sophisticated than in France. Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , that's came as a surprise to me. Several points: 1 - Cooking method: You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) What's smoking, Uh?? 2 - Equipment: You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors fully computerised items . We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally amateurish" to you. 3 - Timing: Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar freezing locations in January. Below 15 Celsius, we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! And so on... There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, thanks in advance. I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at home, only at home, since several centuries. In the USA, during the Conquest of the Far West, numbers of new immigrants had to go from the East Coast to the Middlewest and/or the Rocky Mountains and/or the West Coast on their own, driving horse powered wagons, fighting their way though the Native Americans tribes and spending months "in the wild". What they had to cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a bunch of recipes such as "How to accomodate wild coyote meat with cactus as a woodfire source". No choice. Then, came the time of the "cowboys", spending days and nights in the wild, managing cattles then bringing them to the cattle markets. What they had to cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a bunch of recipes such as "How to accomodate an old cow meat with bush plants as a woodfire source". Here were the sources of the USA BBQ culture, which we don't have in Europe. PLEASE note that all above are assumptions. Amendments, corrections, complementary information are most welcome :-) Avoiding to flame the stupid frog will be most welcome also :-(( Cheers Daniel. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Daniel" > wrote in message ... > Hi everybody, > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > more sophisticated than in France. > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > that's came as a surprise to me. Our reputation for fine fast food is well deserved. And it's health food, if you're a malnourished Somali or suffering from anorexia. > > Several points: > > 1 - Cooking method: > You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. > We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) > What's smoking, Uh?? Smoking requires a lengthy, multi-part explanation, but here's a three sentence simplistic version. Cold smoking (done at temps under 90°F) is a method of preserving food. Hot smoking (generally at temps between 200°F and 300°F is a method of slow cooking which flavors the food with smoke. The smoke has no function as a preservative. > > 2 - Equipment: > You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors > fully computerised items . > We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally > amateurish" to you. Yep, we're the barbecue masters when it comes to equipment. We got towable trailers the likes of which you've never seen. We like our toys. > > 3 - Timing: > Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar freezing > locations in January. > Below 15 Celsius, we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who > have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! Uh, that's because our Froggy friends just don't have the "dedication" that the Américains and Canucks do. You *can* barbecue in France when it gets cold, you just *don't*. But you got that good wine and cheese and bread and pastis and foie gras and olive oil that I'd like to lick off the French girls in Provence because they are the hottest things I have ever seen...[STOP THAT]. > > And so on... > > There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. > > Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, > thanks in advance. > > I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at home, > only at home, since several centuries. What fuel did they use, Daniel? Wood, I betcha. Or peat, which is good for making Scotch but notso good for barbecue. > > In the USA, during the Conquest of the Far West, numbers of new immigrants > had to go from the East Coast to the Middlewest and/or the Rocky Mountains > and/or the West Coast on their own, driving horse powered wagons, fighting > their way though the Native Americans tribes and spending months "in the > wild". > What they had to cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a > bunch of recipes such as "How to accomodate wild coyote meat with cactus as > a woodfire source". No choice. Actually, they ate a lot of jerky. And beans. I think the cactus-based recipes we got from the Old Wild West are pretty much limited to tequila and peyote, and that would be "Mexican," and "Indian," thankyouverymuch. > > Then, came the time of the "cowboys", spending days and nights in the wild, > managing cattles then bringing them to the cattle markets. What they had to > cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a bunch of recipes such > as "How to accomodate an old cow meat with bush plants as a woodfire > source". > Cowboys were famous for preferring a slab of beef cooked until it was tough as shoeleather. Didn't even do "au poirve," the dummies. And beans. They ate a lot of beans. > Here were the sources of the USA BBQ culture, which we don't have in Europe. The real source of barbecue came from the Caribbean, not from America. The Arawak Indians were known for slow cooking meat (probably human meat, since they were cannibals) and called it "barbacoa," meaning "tender, tasty neighbor buttmeat." The English/Spanish/French pirates who sailed the Caribbean adapted this method and barbecued hogs (imported from Europe) and that process made its way to America. All this, BTW, may or may not be true (there are other versions of history...aren't there always?). The real and original masters of barbecue in America were black men in the south who slow cooked the cast-off sections of pig meat that their white owners didn't think palatable, like ribs and shoulders. Their techniques traveled to Texas, where beef brisket, an otherwise inedible piece of meat were transformed into something wonderful. As an aside, I grew up in Florida and remember well in the late 1950's that white people didn't eat mullet...only blacks ate them. Stupid white people. Smoked and freshly deep fried mullet are now a pricy, not easy to find delicacy. Some of this stuff is actually true and all is subject to correction. Bonjour, Jack Curry |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Jack Curry wrote:
> "Daniel" > wrote in message > ... >> Hi everybody, >> Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North >> America is much more sophisticated than in France. >> Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe >> (MacDo, KFC, period) , that's came as a surprise to me. > > Our reputation for fine fast food is well deserved. And > it's health food, if you're a malnourished Somali or > suffering from anorexia. > >> >> Several points: >> >> 1 - Cooking method: >> You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. >> We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) >> What's smoking, Uh?? > > Smoking requires a lengthy, multi-part explanation, but > here's a three sentence simplistic version. Cold smoking > (done at temps under 90°F) is a method of preserving > food. Hot smoking (generally at temps between 200°F and > 300°F is a method of slow cooking which flavors the food > with smoke. The smoke has no function as a preservative. > Snipped a lot of good information... Jack, you fergot this: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/toc.html It explains Barbecue mo' betta than anything else. BOB |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Daniel" > wrote:
> Hi everybody, > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > more sophisticated than in France. > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) > , that's came as a surprise to me. > > Several points: >[ . . . ] > Here were the sources of the USA BBQ culture, which we don't have in > Europe. > Quel romantique! Merci, mon grenouille taureau! -- Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/ For info on a free (you pay only postage) herbal AIDS remedy, write to: PO Box 9, Wichian Buri, Petchabun, 67130 Thailand. Enclose a self-addressed (including country) envelope and $1 or equivalent for return postage. Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten Thanks ! ! ! |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Steve Calvin > wrote:
> wrote: > > "Daniel" > wrote: > > > >>Hi everybody, > >>Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is > >>much more sophisticated than in France. > >>[ . . . ] > >>Here were the sources of the USA BBQ culture, which we don't have in > >>Europe. > >> > > Quel romantique! Merci, mon grenouille taureau! > > > What a romantic! Thank you, my frog bull! ????? > > Something we should know Nick? ;-) Bullfrog, not frog bull! °~D -- Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/ For info on a free (you pay only postage) herbal AIDS remedy, write to: PO Box 9, Wichian Buri, Petchabun, 67130 Thailand. Enclose a self-addressed (including country) envelope and $1 or equivalent for return postage. Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten Thanks ! ! ! |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 25-Jan-2005, "Daniel" > wrote: > Hi everybody, > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > more sophisticated than in France. > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) > , > that's came as a surprise to me. > > Several points: > <snipped most of the original post> > PLEASE note that all above are assumptions. > Amendments, corrections, complementary information are most welcome :-) > Avoiding to flame the stupid frog will be most welcome also :-(( > Cheers > Daniel. If you can get your hands on a copy of "Legends of Texas Barbecue" by Rob Walsh, you'll find it an interesting read in addition to the barbecue FAQ. It's also well illustrated which adds considerable to it's entertainment value. You can buy it online direct from the publisher. www.chroniclebooks.com. Price is US$18.95. Other popular books are "Smoke & Spice" by Cheryl and Bill Jamison, "Paul Kirk's Championship Barbecue" and Weber's Big Book Of Grilling by Jamie Purviance and Sandra S. McRae. Brick (Keep the shiny side up) |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:22 -0500, "Jack Curry"
> wrote: > >"Daniel" > wrote in message ... >> Hi everybody, >> Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much >> more sophisticated than in France. >> Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) >, >> that's came as a surprise to me. > >Our reputation for fine fast food is well deserved. And it's health food, >if you're a malnourished Somali or suffering from anorexia. > >> >> Several points: >> >> 1 - Cooking method: >> You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. >> We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) >> What's smoking, Uh?? > >Smoking requires a lengthy, multi-part explanation, but here's a three >sentence simplistic version. Cold smoking (done at temps under 90°F) is a >method of preserving food. Hot smoking (generally at temps between 200°F >and 300°F is a method of slow cooking which flavors the food with smoke. >The smoke has no function as a preservative. > >> >> 2 - Equipment: >> You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors >> fully computerised items . >> We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally >> amateurish" to you. > >Yep, we're the barbecue masters when it comes to equipment. We got towable >trailers the likes of which you've never seen. We like our toys. > >> >> 3 - Timing: >> Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar >freezing >> locations in January. >> Below 15 Celsius, we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who >> have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! > >Uh, that's because our Froggy friends just don't have the "dedication" that >the Américains and Canucks do. You *can* barbecue in France when it gets >cold, you just *don't*. But you got that good wine and cheese and bread and >pastis and foie gras and olive oil that I'd like to lick off the French >girls in Provence because they are the hottest things I have ever >seen...[STOP THAT]. > >> >> And so on... >> >> There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. >> >> Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, >> thanks in advance. >> >> I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at >home, >> only at home, since several centuries. > >What fuel did they use, Daniel? Wood, I betcha. Or peat, which is good for >making Scotch but notso good for barbecue. > >> >> In the USA, during the Conquest of the Far West, numbers of new immigrants >> had to go from the East Coast to the Middlewest and/or the Rocky Mountains >> and/or the West Coast on their own, driving horse powered wagons, fighting >> their way though the Native Americans tribes and spending months "in the >> wild". >> What they had to cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a >> bunch of recipes such as "How to accomodate wild coyote meat with cactus >as >> a woodfire source". No choice. > >Actually, they ate a lot of jerky. And beans. I think the cactus-based >recipes we got from the Old Wild West are pretty much limited to tequila and >peyote, and that would be "Mexican," and "Indian," thankyouverymuch. >> >> Then, came the time of the "cowboys", spending days and nights in the >wild, >> managing cattles then bringing them to the cattle markets. What they had >to >> cook? Wooden fires. Period. So they "invented" quite a bunch of recipes >such >> as "How to accomodate an old cow meat with bush plants as a woodfire >> source". >> >Cowboys were famous for preferring a slab of beef cooked until it was tough >as shoeleather. Didn't even do "au poirve," the dummies. And beans. They >ate a lot of beans. > >> Here were the sources of the USA BBQ culture, which we don't have in >Europe. > >The real source of barbecue came from the Caribbean, not from America. The >Arawak Indians were known for slow cooking meat (probably human meat, since >they were cannibals) and called it "barbacoa," meaning "tender, tasty >neighbor buttmeat." The English/Spanish/French pirates who sailed the >Caribbean adapted this method and barbecued hogs (imported from Europe) and >that process made its way to America. All this, BTW, may or may not be true >(there are other versions of history...aren't there always?). > >The real and original masters of barbecue in America were black men in the >south who slow cooked the cast-off sections of pig meat that their white >owners didn't think palatable, like ribs and shoulders. Their techniques >traveled to Texas, where beef brisket, an otherwise inedible piece of meat >were transformed into something wonderful. > >As an aside, I grew up in Florida and remember well in the late 1950's that >white people didn't eat mullet...only blacks ate them. Stupid white people. >Smoked and freshly deep fried mullet are now a pricy, not easy to find >delicacy. > >Some of this stuff is actually true and all is subject to correction. > >Bonjour, >Jack Curry > > Not sure what part of Florida you grew up in but all the Florida Crackers I knew ate Smoked Mullet. I moved there in Late ' 59 Got my First Taste at the tender age of 8 years old. see Y'all later Fred |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Jack Curry" > wrote in message ... >....and called it "barbacoa," meaning "tender, tasty > neighbor buttmeat." Now THAT'S funny! -Banjo |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Brick" > wrote:
> On 25-Jan-2005, "Daniel" > wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is > > much more sophisticated than in France. > > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, > > period) , > > that's came as a surprise to me. > > <snipped most of the original post> > > > PLEASE note that all above are assumptions. > > Amendments, corrections, complementary information are most welcome :-) > > Avoiding to flame the stupid frog will be most welcome also :-(( > > If you can get your hands on a copy of "Legends of Texas Barbecue" by > Rob Walsh, you'll find it an interesting read in addition to the barbecue > FAQ. It's > also well illustrated which adds considerable to it's entertainment > value. You > can buy it online direct from the publisher. www.chroniclebooks.com. > Price is > US$18.95. Other popular books are "Smoke & Spice" by Cheryl and Bill > Jamison, > "Paul Kirk's Championship Barbecue" and Weber's Big Book Of Grilling by > Jamie > Purviance and Sandra S. McRae. > 'Legends of Texas Barbecue' is great! As is 'Smoke & Spice', although their times and temps can be misleading. I'll have to check into Paul Kirk's book. Thanks. -- Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/ For info on a free (you pay only postage) herbal AIDS remedy, write to: PO Box 9, Wichian Buri, Petchabun, 67130 Thailand. Enclose a self-addressed (including country) envelope and $1 or equivalent for return postage. Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten Thanks ! ! ! |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Daniel" > wrote in message ... > Hi everybody, > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > more sophisticated than in France. > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > that's came as a surprise to me. Daniel, You have based this assumption on what you have seen in this newsgroup? That is like being parachuted into the middle of a motorcycle rally, and assuming that everybody in North America has a Harley Davidson... How do you know that nobody barbecues when it snows in France? Have you asked everybody? Maybe, if there was a French chapter of A.F.B, it would lure some of your own countrymen into the circle ... (The home of asphalt lamb is bound to come up with some other innovative ideas! ;-) Some of the folks here are in the top tier of barbecue crazies. (Certainly, when I'm barbecuing in the Vancouver winter rain, my neighbours think I'm crazy.) You are preaching to the choir. Regular north americans burn hamburgers and wieners (hot dogs) on gas grills, and only when the weather is clement. /M -- ------------------------------------------------ M Grubb of Little Delving, Esq. ------------------------------------------------ "You only get to choose what you read, not what I write" |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 26 Jan 2005 03:54:24 GMT, wrote:
>"Brick" > wrote: >> On 25-Jan-2005, "Daniel" > wrote: >> >> > Hi everybody, >> > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is >> > much more sophisticated than in France. snipped some more >> <snipped most of the original post> >> >> If you can get your hands on a copy of "Legends of Texas Barbecue" by >> Rob Walsh, you'll find it an interesting read in addition to the barbecue >> FAQ. It's >> also well illustrated which adds considerable to it's entertainment >> value. You >> can buy it online direct from the publisher. www.chroniclebooks.com. >> Price is >> US$18.95. Other popular books are "Smoke & Spice" by Cheryl and Bill >> Jamison, >> "Paul Kirk's Championship Barbecue" and Weber's Big Book Of Grilling by >> Jamie >> Purviance and Sandra S. McRae. >> >'Legends of Texas Barbecue' is great! As is 'Smoke & Spice', although their >times and temps can be misleading. > >I'll have to check into Paul Kirk's book. Thanks. I love Smoke & Spice but pay more attention to my fellow posters on places like ABF, AFB, Kamado Forum for fine tuning, Harry |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:38:45 +0700, "Daniel"
> reported to us: >Hi everybody, >Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much >more sophisticated than in France. >Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , >that's came as a surprise to me. > [/lurk] Well, I am just shocked at how polite the gang is today! I thought that I was going to read some slams, but I guess not. Harry didn't mention that Vancouver is warmer than a lot of France is right now, and no one stated the McD / KFC are businesses and not restaurants. My my, a "Global feel" to my morning read. Carry on! [lurk] Wally "No one has ever had an idea in a dress suit." Sir Frederick G. Banting |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Piedmont wrote:
>> >> 3 - Timing: >> Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar >> freezing >> locations in January. >> Below 15 Celsius, > > > Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) Well, it wasn't quite that cold here last weekend but it was snowing like h*ll and about 5dF and windy, but those ribs off the WSM suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrre was tasty! :-) -- Steve Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with excellence. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Daniel wrote:
> Hi everybody, > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > more sophisticated than in France. > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > that's came as a surprise to me. > > Several points: > > 1 - Cooking method: > You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. > We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) "Grilling" is closer to original IMO to old time Q, it's just that people started using it for fast quick foods, such as burgers, hot dogs, steaks. Look at the pictures on my MSN Group, that shows basically a grill (pit) in the ground. Way before Weber came along! So this point you made is mute. Large cuts of meat over coals and mopping is some authentic Q. > What's smoking, Uh?? Cold smoking has been used by all peoples around the world to preserve meat, America can't take credit for that either. > > 2 - Equipment: > You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors > fully computerised items . Kamado is Oriental, how can Americans take credit for that! > We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally > amateurish" to you. > > 3 - Timing: > Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar freezing > locations in January. > Below 15 Celsius, Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) >we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who > have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! > > And so on... > > There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. > > Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, > thanks in advance. > > I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at home, > only at home, since several centuries. > Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could not afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs to pig ears. They were still coooking with wood fires long after most folks got gas or electric stoves. Most of the best and tastiest food in the world was made by the poor folk, probably also using strong seasoning to over power the taste of the rotted meat that was all they could afford,throw aways. They had to be smart and creative to make an edible meal out of what they could find. SNIP > Cheers > Daniel. Dan, If I send you my address at your hotmail account, will you send me a post card from France for my stamp collection! -- Mike Willsey (Piedmont) "The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!" http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm, Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/ If you or a loved one has thyroid issues, please have their thyroid checked for radiation levels! |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wally Bedford wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:38:45 +0700, "Daniel" > > reported to us: > > >Hi everybody, > >Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > >more sophisticated than in France. > >Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > >that's came as a surprise to me. > > > > [/lurk] > > Well, I am just shocked at how polite the gang is today! I thought > that I was going to read some slams, but I guess not. Harry didn't > mention that Vancouver is warmer than a lot of France is right now, > and no one stated the McD / KFC are businesses and not restaurants. > > My my, a "Global feel" to my morning read. Carry on! > > [lurk] Error 1069: Mismatched tags -CAL |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Steve Calvin wrote:
> Piedmont wrote: > >>> >>> 3 - Timing: >>> Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar >>> freezing >>> locations in January. >>> Below 15 Celsius, >> >> >> >> Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) > > > Well, it wasn't quite that cold here last weekend but it was snowing > like h*ll and about 5dF and windy, but those ribs off the WSM > suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrre was tasty! :-) > hm... in retrospect I guess that 5dF IS -15C -- Steve Ever wonder about those people who spend $2.00 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backwards... |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Piedmont wrote:
> "Grilling" is closer to original IMO to old time Q, it's just that > people started using it for fast quick foods, such as burgers, hot > dogs, steaks. Look at the pictures on my MSN Group, that shows > basically a grill (pit) in the ground. Way before Weber came along! > So this point you made is mute. Large cuts of meat over coals and > mopping is some authentic Q. Grilling is over direct HIGH heat. In-ground pits were adjusted to a low temp by the amount of coals added, and the height of the grill above the coals. The temps were kept much lower than typical grilling temps. > Kamado is Oriental, how can Americans take credit for that! The concept is Asian, but the implementation is American. > Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) Nah... just dead-e-cated > Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could > not afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs > to pig ears. I agree, to a point. But it is clear from accounts dating to the late 1700s, that barbecue had established itself into the mainstream of southern society. And it were German immigrants into central Texas, around the turn of the 20th century, that really began 'Qing brisket. -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 26-Jan-2005, Harry Demidavicius > wrote: > On 26 Jan 2005 03:54:24 GMT, wrote: > > >"Brick" > wrote: > >> On 25-Jan-2005, "Daniel" > wrote: > >> > >> > Hi everybody, > >> > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is > >> > much more sophisticated than in France. > snipped some more > >> <snipped most of the original post> > >> > >> If you can get your hands on a copy of "Legends of Texas Barbecue" by > >> Rob Walsh, you'll find it an interesting read in addition to the > >> barbecue > >> FAQ. <snipped my own post> > >> > >'Legends of Texas Barbecue' is great! As is 'Smoke & Spice', although > >their > >times and temps can be misleading. > > > >I'll have to check into Paul Kirk's book. Thanks. > > I love Smoke & Spice but pay more attention to my fellow posters on > places like ABF, AFB, Kamado Forum for fine tuning, > > Harry Cookbooks in general tend to rely heavily on time and temperature to determine doneness. A few identify the toothpick test for cakes and such. As far as done is concerned, "It's done when it's done". Notice that most of the Chef's on FoodTV encourage tasting the food both to determine correctness of seasoning, but doneness as well. I wouldn't totally discount the advice in a cookbook though. When we write here about BBQ'ing to a pulling texture, that's highly variable in time and temp. But cooking a chunk of meat to slice is more specific to internal temp. You're just going to have to wag what setting time is going to do to your meat and take it off at your best guess for temp. Brick (Keep the shiny side up) |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 05:40:43 -0500, Wally Bedford
> wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:38:45 +0700, "Daniel" > reported to us: > >>Hi everybody, >>Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much >>more sophisticated than in France. >>Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , >>that's came as a surprise to me. >> > >[/lurk] > >Well, I am just shocked at how polite the gang is today! I thought >that I was going to read some slams, but I guess not. Harry didn't >mention that Vancouver is warmer than a lot of France is right now, >and no one stated the McD / KFC are businesses and not restaurants. > >My my, a "Global feel" to my morning read. Carry on! > >[lurk] > >Wally > Harry don't live in Vancouver, but it probably is . . . Calgary certainly is . . . Warmer than bunches of places in Florida and certainly France - this week . . . . . And then there's the Mid-West on those poor schloobs in the Maratombs. It's a crazy Weather pattern all over - which we and the Kamados are taking full advantage of  Harry |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dave Bugg wrote:
> Piedmont wrote: > > >>"Grilling" is closer to original IMO to old time Q, it's just that >>people started using it for fast quick foods, such as burgers, hot >>dogs, steaks. Look at the pictures on my MSN Group, that shows >>basically a grill (pit) in the ground. Way before Weber came along! >>So this point you made is mute. Large cuts of meat over coals and >>mopping is some authentic Q. > > > Grilling is over direct HIGH heat. In-ground pits were adjusted to a low > temp by the amount of coals added, and the height of the grill above the > coals. The temps were kept much lower than typical grilling temps. Dave, At the the Owensboro, KY Q festival, they use about a 4 x 5 foot by 8 inch deep metal cooker (you would call it a grill, I call it a pit)that they burn old oak skids down to coals with, starting first of the day. These metal beds are shallow, yet they are full of hot coals a few inches deep. They sandwich 4-6 pound chunks of meat between two metal contraptions much like the hot dog cages you see. They butt up one grill next to the other until they extend half a city block. Then flip the meat cages over until they reach the end which makes it ready to sell by 3:00 PM. They cook this meat directly over the hot and very close coals, all day long and mop often. I call it pit cooking not grilling. This technique is a take off of the pit in the ground. I classify grilling as a technique of cooking the same as above but your using thin cuts of meat that are gonna cook fast, whereas the larger chunks are cooked the same way, hot coals, close proximity between meat and coals, but requiring a mop application. -- Mike Willsey (Piedmont) "The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!" http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm, Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/ If you or a loved one has thyroid issues, please have their thyroid checked for radiation levels! |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Piedmont wrote:
> Dave, > > At the the Owensboro, KY Q festival, they use about a 4 x 5 foot by 8 > inch deep metal cooker (you would call it a grill, I call it a > pit)that they burn old oak skids down to coals with, starting first > of the day. These metal beds are shallow, yet they are full of hot > coals a few inches deep. > > They sandwich 4-6 pound chunks of meat between two metal contraptions > much like the hot dog cages you see. They butt up one grill next to > the other until they extend half a city block. Then flip the meat > cages over until they reach the end which makes it ready to sell by > 3:00 PM. > They cook this meat directly over the hot and very close coals, all > day long and mop often. I call it pit cooking not grilling. This > technique is a take off of the pit in the ground. 8" isn't all that close, and if the coals were at true grilling temp, 4-6 pound chunks of meat wouldn't take till 3:00pm to get done. Mopping wouldn't slow down the cooking. It is close to the way the traditional pits I've spent time with in North Carolina operate. They are commonly referred to as an "open" pits, rather than what most of us use which are "enclosed" or "closed" pits. > I classify grilling as a technique of cooking the same as above but > your using thin cuts of meat that are gonna cook fast, whereas the > larger chunks are cooked the same way, hot coals, close proximity > between meat and coals, but requiring a mop application. Some folks refer to tri-tip "barbecue", but in reality it is a combination of grilling and roasting. Open pit methods of 'Q is a different animal than what you'd do in a closed pit. -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dave Bugg wrote:
> Piedmont wrote: > >> Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could >> not afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs >> to pig ears. > > I agree, to a point. But it is clear from accounts dating to the late > 1700s, that barbecue had established itself into the mainstream of > southern society. And it were German immigrants into central Texas, > around the turn of the 20th century, that really began 'Qing brisket. Where can I read up on this, is there a "short list" of recommended books to check out that do a good job of explaining the origions of BBQ? I'm always up for a good read. Brian |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> Wally Bedford wrote: > >> Well, I am just shocked at how polite the gang is today! >> I thought that I was going to read some slams, but I >> guess not. Harry didn't mention that Vancouver is >> warmer than a lot of France is right now, and no one >> stated the McD / KFC are businesses and not restaurants. >> >> My my, a "Global feel" to my morning read. Carry on! >> Wally >> > Harry don't live in Vancouver, but it probably is . . . > Calgary certainly is . . . Warmer than bunches of places > in Florida and certainly France - this week . . . . . I don't think you mean "this week" Harry, unless you're getting mid 70s and lower 80s (F). We have been up to 74-75 F just about every day this week, and I'm loving it. Last "weekend," that was a different matter completely. > And then there's the Mid-West on those poor schloobs in > the Maratombs. It's a crazy Weather pattern all over - > which we and the Kamados are taking full advantage of Had 3 cooks going at the same time Tuesday, all at different temperatures. The freezer is full so that I won't have to freeze my feet (or put on shoes) the next time it gets to Great White North-type temperatures and I need a BBQ fix. I did take the opportunity to smoke about 5# of cheese on the K5 last Saturday night. The dome temperature was so low that it didn't register on the scale, but I could see the slight whisp of smoke coming out the dome. I'll definately be doing this again. It's fantastic. BOB |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:56:07 -0500, " BOB" > wrote:
>Harry Demidavicius wrote: >> Wally Bedford wrote: >> Harry don't live in Vancouver, but it probably is . . . >>It's a crazy Weather pattern all over - >> which we and the Kamados are taking full advantage of > >Had 3 cooks going at the same time Tuesday, all at different temperatures. >The freezer is full so that I won't have to freeze my feet (or put on >shoes) the next time it gets to Great White North-type temperatures and I >need a BBQ fix. > At this rate that could be next week, Bob. We're still setting records here. More importantly - about the smoking of the cheese . . . >I did take the opportunity to smoke about 5# of cheese on the K5 last >Saturday night. The dome temperature was so low that it didn't register >on the scale, but I could see the slight whisp of smoke coming out the >dome. I'll definately be doing this again. It's fantastic. How did you get the temp that low? What kind of cheese? Did you flavour out with what type of wood? Harry > |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:56:24 GMT, "Brian D." >
wrote: >Dave Bugg wrote: >> Piedmont wrote: >> >>> Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could >>> not afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs >>> to pig ears. >> >> I agree, to a point. But it is clear from accounts dating to the late >> 1700s, that barbecue had established itself into the mainstream of >> southern society. And it were German immigrants into central Texas, >> around the turn of the 20th century, that really began 'Qing brisket. > > Where can I read up on this, is there a "short list" of recommended >books to check out that do a good job of explaining the origions of BBQ? I'm >always up for a good read. Brian > C'mon, guys - give it a rest. Man has been treating meat over flames since man learned how to make fire. Everyone's BBQ differs a little in style and spicing but all it takes is meat exposed to live heat. Jeez, my Dad rode with the Cossacks in the what we call Afghanistan today. They used to slaughter and butcher their dead or mortally wounded cavalry horses, then place the meat under their saddle blankets and have 'tender aged meat' for supper in the evening. It was cooked over coals. Harry |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> More importantly - about the smoking of the cheese . . . > >> I did take the opportunity to smoke about 5# of cheese >> on the K5 last Saturday night. The dome temperature was >> so low that it didn't register on the scale, but I could >> see the slight whisp of smoke coming out the dome. I'll >> definately be doing this again. It's fantastic. > > How did you get the temp that low? That night was one of the (real, actual, not my imagination) freezing ones. 3 Kamado extruded lumps burning (completely glowing) that I started in the #1 and fished out. > > What kind of cheese? Store brand extra sharp chedder and some El Viajero Queso Blanco (a white cheese) from Sam's, both cit into blocks about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 4". Both packages were about 1 1/2" by 4" by about 12" long. I just made squares 1 1/2" squares by the 4 inches long. > > Did you flavour out with what type of wood? Hickory chunks on the glowing lump. I put the cheese in the freezer while I was building the fire and setting up. I didn't pre-heat the K5, just set up the main grill and the upper grill and a foil wrapped pizza stone on the lower grill, with the 3 lumps and the hickory chunks in the LS+. The draft door was open 'almost' a credit card's thickness (about half of my low-and-slow setting) and the damper open. I don't really remember how much, but probably about 4 or 5 turns. Cheese was put on with lots of smoke coming out of the damper, I didn't want it to burn long enough to get "clean burning" because I didn't want the K5 to warm up and melt the cheese. Cheese on for 15 minutes, then back into the freezer, then back on the Kamado for another 15 minutes. (I was alternating the trays since I could only do one tray per grill level) It wasn't perfect, but I'll surely try again if (when) we have predictions for sub-32°F temps. BOB |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Piedmont" > wrote in message ... > Daniel wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > > more sophisticated than in France. > > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > > that's came as a surprise to me. > > > > Several points: > > > > 1 - Cooking method: > > You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. > > We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) > > "Grilling" is closer to original IMO to old time Q, it's just that > people started using it for fast quick foods, such as burgers, hot dogs, > steaks. Look at the pictures on my MSN Group, that shows basically a > grill (pit) in the ground. Way before Weber came along! So this point > you made is mute. Large cuts of meat over coals and mopping is some > authentic Q. > > > > What's smoking, Uh?? > > Cold smoking has been used by all peoples around the world to preserve > meat, America can't take credit for that either. =========================== No, but individuals are smoking for their own use. We buy industrially smoked meat at the Supermarket... > > > > > 2 - Equipment: > > You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors > > fully computerised items . > > Kamado is Oriental, how can Americans take credit for that! ============================= Correct, but you have a lot while most of the "grillers" in France don't even know what it is, as it was my case. > > > We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally > > amateurish" to you. > > > > 3 - Timing: > > Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar freezing > > locations in January. > > Below 15 Celsius, > > Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) > > >we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who > > have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! > > > > And so on... > > > > There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. > > > > Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, > > thanks in advance. > > > > I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at home, > > only at home, since several centuries. > > > Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could not > afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs to pig > ears. They were still coooking with wood fires long after most folks got > gas or electric stoves. Most of the best and tastiest food in the world > was made by the poor folk, probably also using strong seasoning to over > power the taste of the rotted meat that was all they could afford,throw > aways. They had to be smart and creative to make an edible meal out of > what they could find. =========================== Good one > SNIP > > Cheers > > Daniel. > Dan, If I send you my address at your hotmail account, will you send me > a post card from France for my stamp collection! =============================== Not easy, I am living in Thailand :-) But if you are interested by Thai stamps, send you address, no problem. Give me some time, I will also wait to receive some mail from Europe and other Asian countries and put all that with my Thai envelopes in a bigger one. Cheers Daniel > -- > Mike Willsey (Piedmont) > "The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!" > http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw > > Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm, > Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/ > > If you or a loved one has thyroid issues, please have their thyroid > checked for radiation levels! > > > > > |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Piedmont" > wrote in message ... > Daniel wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > Since I joint this NG, I discovered that BBQing in North America is much > > more sophisticated than in France. > > Knowing the reputation of American cuisine in Europe (MacDo, KFC, period) , > > that's came as a surprise to me. > > > > Several points: > > > > 1 - Cooking method: > > You BBQ or Grill or Smoke. > > We only grill and we call that BBQ (Sorry) > > "Grilling" is closer to original IMO to old time Q, it's just that > people started using it for fast quick foods, such as burgers, hot dogs, > steaks. Look at the pictures on my MSN Group, that shows basically a > grill (pit) in the ground. Way before Weber came along! So this point > you made is mute. Large cuts of meat over coals and mopping is some > authentic Q. > > > > What's smoking, Uh?? > > Cold smoking has been used by all peoples around the world to preserve > meat, America can't take credit for that either. =========================== No, but individuals are smoking for their own use. We buy industrially smoked meat at the Supermarket... > > > > > 2 - Equipment: > > You have Kamado high tech equipment, not naming their numerous competitors > > fully computerised items . > > Kamado is Oriental, how can Americans take credit for that! ============================= Correct, but you have a lot while most of the "grillers" in France don't even know what it is, as it was my case. > > > We only have the smal grilling stuff that will definitely look "totally > > amateurish" to you. > > > > 3 - Timing: > > Some honourable members of this NG can BBQ in Vancouver or similar freezing > > locations in January. > > Below 15 Celsius, > > Them!, they're just plain nuts! (grin) > > >we don't BBQ in France, except the few happy fellows who > > have an indoor chimney in the house. Outdoor with snow! Forget! > > > > And so on... > > > > There MUST be a logical historical explanation to that. > > > > Kindly read what follows, my little assumptions, and correct as necessary, > > thanks in advance. > > > > I Europe, nomadism vanished a long time ago and everyone is cooking at home, > > only at home, since several centuries. > > > Most bbq in the US was kept alive IMO, by they poor folks that could not > afford anything but the toughest cuts, from brisket to spareribs to pig > ears. They were still coooking with wood fires long after most folks got > gas or electric stoves. Most of the best and tastiest food in the world > was made by the poor folk, probably also using strong seasoning to over > power the taste of the rotted meat that was all they could afford,throw > aways. They had to be smart and creative to make an edible meal out of > what they could find. =========================== Good one > SNIP > > Cheers > > Daniel. > Dan, If I send you my address at your hotmail account, will you send me > a post card from France for my stamp collection! =============================== Not easy, I am living in Thailand :-) But if you are interested by Thai stamps, send you address, no problem. Give me some time, I will also wait to receive some mail from Europe and other Asian countries and put all that with my Thai envelopes in a bigger one. Cheers Daniel > -- > Mike Willsey (Piedmont) > "The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!" > http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw > > Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm, > Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/ > > If you or a loved one has thyroid issues, please have their thyroid > checked for radiation levels! > > > > > |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:54:17 -0500, " BOB" > wrote:
>Harry Demidavicius wrote: > >> More importantly - about the smoking of the cheese . . . >> >>> I did take the opportunity to smoke about 5# of cheese >>> on the K5 last Saturday night. The dome temperature was >>> so low that it didn't register on the scale, but I could >>> see the slight whisp of smoke coming out the dome. I'll >>> definately be doing this again. It's fantastic. >> >> How did you get the temp that low? > >That night was one of the (real, actual, not my imagination) freezing >ones. >3 Kamado extruded lumps burning (completely glowing) that I started in the >#1 and fished out. > >> >> What kind of cheese? > >Store brand extra sharp chedder and some El Viajero Queso Blanco (a white >cheese) from Sam's, both cit into blocks about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 4". Both >packages were about 1 1/2" by 4" by about 12" long. I just made squares 1 >1/2" squares by the 4 inches long. > >> >> Did you flavour out with what type of wood? > >Hickory chunks on the glowing lump. > >I put the cheese in the freezer while I was building the fire and setting >up. I didn't pre-heat the K5, just set up the main grill and the upper >grill and a foil wrapped pizza stone on the lower grill, with the 3 lumps >and the hickory chunks in the LS+. The draft door was open 'almost' a >credit card's thickness (about half of my low-and-slow setting) and the >damper open. I don't really remember how much, but probably about 4 or 5 >turns. >Cheese was put on with lots of smoke coming out of the damper, I didn't >want it to burn long enough to get "clean burning" because I didn't want >the K5 to warm up and melt the cheese. > >Cheese on for 15 minutes, then back into the freezer, then back on the >Kamado for another 15 minutes. (I was alternating the trays since I could >only do one tray per grill level) > >It wasn't perfect, but I'll surely try again if (when) we have predictions >for sub-32°F temps. > >BOB > Would a [rubegoldberg rig] metal dryer hose at the top of the K feeding into a cardboard box which holds the cheese, work? Harry |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> " BOB" wrote: >> Harry Demidavicius wrote: >>> More importantly - about the smoking of the cheese . . . >>> >>>> I did take the opportunity to smoke about 5# of cheese >>>> on the K5 last Saturday night. The dome temperature >>>> was so low that it didn't register on the scale, but I >>>> could see the slight whisp of smoke coming out the >>>> dome. I'll definately be doing this again. It's >>>> fantastic. >>> How did you get the temp that low? >> That night was one of the (real, actual, not my >> imagination) freezing ones. >> 3 Kamado extruded lumps burning (completely glowing) >> that I started in the #1 and fished out. >>> What kind of cheese? >> Store brand extra sharp chedder and some El Viajero >> Queso Blanco (a white cheese) from Sam's, both cit into >> blocks about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 4". Both packages were >> about 1 1/2" by 4" by about 12" long. I just made >> squares 1 1/2" squares by the 4 inches long. >>> Did you flavour out with what type of wood? >> Hickory chunks on the glowing lump. >> I put the cheese in the freezer while I was building the >> fire and setting up. I didn't pre-heat the K5, just set >> up the main grill and the upper grill and a foil wrapped >> pizza stone on the lower grill, with the 3 lumps and the >> hickory chunks in the LS+. The draft door was open >> 'almost' a credit card's thickness (about half of my >> low-and-slow setting) and the damper open. I don't >> really remember how much, but probably about 4 or 5 >> turns. >> Cheese was put on with lots of smoke coming out of the >> damper, I didn't want it to burn long enough to get >> "clean burning" because I didn't want the K5 to warm up >> and melt the cheese. >> Cheese on for 15 minutes, then back into the freezer, >> then back on the Kamado for another 15 minutes. (I was >> alternating the trays since I could only do one tray per >> grill level) >> It wasn't perfect, but I'll surely try again if (when) >> we have predictions for sub-32°F temps. >> BOB > Would a [rubegoldberg rig] metal dryer hose at the top of > the K feeding into a cardboard box which holds the > cheese, work? > > Harry Probably. It was a spur of the moment thing, and I didn't think about anything like that. I do happen to have some of the 6" round aluminum flex duct on the carport. I'd have to clean the spiderwebs and spiders out of it. BOB |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| How can Mother Superior be. . . | Preserving | |||
| Superior Sangria | Recipes (moderated) | |||
| Why is Gong Fu brewing superior? | Tea | |||
| Darjeeling Oolong Superior | Tea | |||
| Superior Pickle Sauce | General Cooking | |||
Linear Mode
