I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
for a tender brisket? Thanks.

Raover wrote:
> I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
> BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
> I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
> last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
> just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
> them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
> are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
> for a tender brisket? Thanks.
>
>
Add about some to that cooking time and they will be closer to tender.
Maybe closer to 12 hours, but......


as the saying goes.....

It's done when it's done.

"Raover" > wrote in message

> If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they just are not as
> tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate them over night
> and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound.

I smoke mine at 250 for 12 to 16 hours. You can go even higher and use less
time.
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Brisket is a meat that can't be cooked by the normal rules of 1
hour per pound that some people use for other meats..Brisket starts
breaking down the collagen around 170-180...You want to extend that
time from 8 upwards to about 10-12 for an 8-9 pound brisket..when
you start getting in the 12-14 pound range for the brisket you are
looking between 18-20 hours...the internal temp of the brisket
needs to get to 190 and hold there for at least an hour maybe
longer.
I have known some people that reverse your process though, they
start the brisket out in the oven at 225 for 4 hours or so, and
then move it to the smoker for 8-10 hours..leaving it open for
about half the time and then wrapping it in foil for the
remainder..
Myself, i prefer to get the smoker to the working temperature, put
the brisket in, close it up and don't touch it for at least 6
hours, if you have a thermometer that you can leave in and check
without opening the door, all the better.. but i generally don't
check anything for the first 6-8 hours....
Experiment, that is the key, keep cooking and extending the time
and i think you will find quite a difference...either way let us
know...
Gumby
smoking in south georgia

"Raover" > wrote in
:

I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as
some of the BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me
to get them real tender I have to wrap them up in foil and
finish the cooking in the oven for the last four hours or so. If
i smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they just are not
as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate them
over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My
briskets are not tough, just not as tender as I think they
should be. Any BBQ secrets for a tender brisket? Thanks.





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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 02:12:59 GMT, "Raover" >
wrote:

>I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
>BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
>I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
>last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
>just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
>them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
>are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
>for a tender brisket? Thanks.
>
Fergit the "hours per pound" method.

You gotta remember the magic number:

193

as in...

The Brisket must reach an internal temperature of 193° Farenheit to
reach that state of tender bliss which you seek, Grasshopper.

The rest of your method sounds fine....just forget about the foil, and
keep cooking that brisket until the thermometer reads 193° at the
center of the thickest part of the brisket and you will have reached
nirvana.

Oh, and don't keep checking it every 10 minutes when it gets above
185°...it will just keep cooling down the smoker and make it take
longer to reach 193.

So, again, repeat after me...

"193....193....193...."

;-)

-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats When They Come To MY House!"
www.chefjuke.com

Raover wrote:
> I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
> BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
> I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
> last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
> just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
> them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
> are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
> for a tender brisket? Thanks.
>
>
Need to cook much longer, and, for now, get a temp probe, stick in
brisket, cook until 195 degrees inside.

--
Regards, Mike (Piedmont)

http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBarBQr/_whatsnew.msn

What is needed next for mankind to advance is; Separation of business
from state, in addition to separation of church from state.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Raover" > wrote in message
>
> > If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they just are not as
> > tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate them over night
> > and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound.
>
> I smoke mine at 250 for 12 to 16 hours. You can go even higher and use less
> time.
> Ed
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

I cheat, about 6 hours in the improvised smoker and then into the
convection oven (not wrapped, fat cap up) at the same 250 degrees and I
let it hold there overnight which typically brings it to 16 hours total.
Works perfectly every time and a bit less work.

Pete C.

On 6-Nov-2005, "Raover" > wrote:

> I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
> BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
> I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
> last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
> just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
> them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
> are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
> for a tender brisket? Thanks.

For openers, my briskets are falling apart tender. In fact I pulled the last one just
for the hell of it. I separate the flat from the tip at the start. The flat always gets
done earlier then the thicker tip. I cook at 250° to 275° until a fork twists easily
in the thickest part of the meat. My choice of temperature is due more to the
idiosyncrasies of my pit rather then any cooking theory. Fat side toward the heat
which is down in my pit. I check it after 6 hours and every hour after that.
I never move it before it's done. I foil it after removing it
from the pit and let it rest wrapped in bath towels in a cooler for about an hour
after removing it from the pit.
--
The Brick said that (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)

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Pete C. wrote:

> I cheat, about 6 hours in the improvised smoker and then into the
> convection oven (not wrapped, fat cap up) at the same 250 degrees and
> I let it hold there overnight which typically brings it to 16 hours
> total. Works perfectly every time and a bit less work.

Heck, a friend of mine goes one better. Marinades the brisket in a liquid
smoke-based concoction, and then puts it into the oven from the git-go.
Even less work. Ptui.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Raover wrote:
> I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
> BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
> I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
> last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
> just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
> them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
> are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
> for a tender brisket? Thanks.

It's done real nice when your internal temp reaches at least 190°;
195° is better. Like the other Meister said: 193°. Timewise, at
least 1h 15 mins per pound as a guideline. Could go to 1.5 hours.
Start with decent meat too (probably should be number one). Wal Mart
is hit or miss. Go to your butcher, and tell them what you're doing
with it. They'll be happy to get you a proper piece, especially in
Houston.
In your horizontal smoker, fat cap up. Also, as you said Raover,
you're marinating overnight; keep the salt content on the low side in
constructing your marinade. If you're a heavy salter, your marinade
can leech moisture out of the meat. Let the spices and other
ingredients do their magic.
Resting in foil in a cooler is a preference amongst some, but I've not
seen any great benefit from a protracted stay in a cooler when it's
done. But, still let it rest somewhat. 15-20 mins loosely covered. If
your guests get cantankerous waiting for your really good brisket, just
pop out the tequila and sangrita chasers. That should make the wait
interesting.

Pierre

I put a rub on my brisket, wrap it in foil and put it in the oven for 12
hours ( My oven automatically shut off sfter 12 hours. Handy) When I get
up in the AM I transfer it to the grill, open the wrapper, bast witha
mopping sauce and cook for another 4 hours.

Raover wrote:
> I can't ever seem to smoke my briskets so they are a tender as some of the
> BBQ joints here in the Houston area. In order for me to get them real tender
> I have to wrap them up in foil and finish the cooking in the oven for the
> last four hours or so. If I smoke them for the full 8 hours on the pit they
> just are not as tender. I have a heavy duty horizonal smoker, I marinate
> them over night and smoke at 225 degrees about an hour a pound. My briskets
> are not tough, just not as tender as I think they should be. Any BBQ secrets
> for a tender brisket? Thanks.
>
>

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > I cheat, about 6 hours in the improvised smoker and then into the
> > convection oven (not wrapped, fat cap up) at the same 250 degrees and
> > I let it hold there overnight which typically brings it to 16 hours
> > total. Works perfectly every time and a bit less work.
>
> Heck, a friend of mine goes one better. Marinades the brisket in a liquid
> smoke-based concoction, and then puts it into the oven from the git-go.
> Even less work. Ptui.
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

Yea, but that aint' Q.

Cheating is quite different. After 6 hours of smoking the brisket isn't
going to be absorbing any more smoke flavor (I've heard as little as two
hours) so after that point it's just low and slow heat which the oven
does just fine. No phony smoke here.

Pete C.

you need to cook longer to about at least 178 internal temp in the flat

get a good thermometer and stick it in sideways into the flat.

After it reachs 178 you can take an ice pick or the thermometer probe
and stick it in the side every 30 mins or so, when it go in very easily
with little resistance the brisket should be tender.
So briskets are very tender at 180, others tough at 180
so I find its better to check by feel

On 7 Nov 2005 18:13:53 -0800, " >
wrote:

>you need to cook longer to about at least 178 internal temp in the flat
>
ITYM 190.

Glenn wrote:
> I put a rub on my brisket, wrap it in foil and put it in the oven for
> 12 hours ( My oven automatically shut off sfter 12 hours. Handy) When
> I get up in the AM I transfer it to the grill, open the wrapper, bast
> witha mopping sauce and cook for another 4 hours.

Why post here? This is a bbq ng. RFC would be the place to post that crap.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Pete C. wrote:

> Yea, but that aint' Q.

Yea, that's my point. Neither was the other oven-roast.

> Cheating is quite different. After 6 hours of smoking the brisket
> isn't going to be absorbing any more smoke flavor (I've heard as
> little as two hours)

BS. That's a common myth. What ever you call your oven roast, with or
without pit time, it ain't 'Q

>so after that point it's just low and slow heat
> which the oven does just fine. No phony smoke here.

Phony as a three dollar bill. As Phony as Tony Romas.
..

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

TROLL!!!

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Glenn wrote:
>> I put a rub on my brisket, wrap it in foil and put it in the oven for
>> 12 hours ( My oven automatically shut off sfter 12 hours. Handy) When
>> I get up in the AM I transfer it to the grill, open the wrapper, bast
>> witha mopping sauce and cook for another 4 hours.
>
> Why post here? This is a bbq ng. RFC would be the place to post that
> crap.
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com
>

Dave Bugg wrote:
:: Pete C. wrote:
::
::: Yea, but that aint' Q.
::
:: Yea, that's my point. Neither was the other oven-roast.
::
::: Cheating is quite different. After 6 hours of smoking the brisket
::: isn't going to be absorbing any more smoke flavor (I've heard as
::: little as two hours)
::
:: BS. That's a common myth. What ever you call your oven roast,
with or
:: without pit time, it ain't 'Q

It's the *SMOKE RING* that isn't formed any more after a couple of
hours or about 140°. Smoke is absorbed throughout the cook. I guess
some people have never had over-smoked food (barbeque or not!).
That's *EXACTLY* why you want/need that thin, wispy light blue smoke
throughout the cook for good BBQ. But I guess some people here
wouldn't know good BBQ if it bit them. '-)

::
::: so after that point it's just low and slow heat
::: which the oven does just fine. No phony smoke here.
::
:: Phony as a three dollar bill. As Phony as Tony Romas.

Nah, not quite that phony. Tony is the definition of phony!
<eg>

BOB

:: .
::
:: --
:: Dave
:: www.davebbq.com

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Yea, but that aint' Q.
>
> Yea, that's my point. Neither was the other oven-roast.
>
> > Cheating is quite different. After 6 hours of smoking the brisket
> > isn't going to be absorbing any more smoke flavor (I've heard as
> > little as two hours)
>
> BS. That's a common myth. What ever you call your oven roast, with or
> without pit time, it ain't 'Q
>
> >so after that point it's just low and slow heat
> > which the oven does just fine. No phony smoke here.
>
> Phony as a three dollar bill. As Phony as Tony Romas.
> .
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

Come on over and I'll do the blind taste test with a brisket done 16
hours on the smoker and one done 6 hours on the smoker and 10 in the
oven.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

> Come on over and I'll do the blind taste test with a brisket done 16
> hours on the smoker and one done 6 hours on the smoker and 10 in the
> oven.

Come to my place, I don't want to embarass you on yer own turf. An oven's
not a pit, and your method aint 'Q. I'm sure Tony Roma made his first
compromise in the same way.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Come on over and I'll do the blind taste test with a brisket done 16
> > hours on the smoker and one done 6 hours on the smoker and 10 in the
> > oven.
>
> Come to my place, I don't want to embarass you on yer own turf. An oven's
> not a pit, and your method aint 'Q. I'm sure Tony Roma made his first
> compromise in the same way.
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

Are you going to do the same test???

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

> Are you going to do the same test???

I done passed the test and graduated magna *** laude a long time ago.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Are you going to do the same test???
>
> I done passed the test and graduated magna *** laude a long time ago.
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

I'll take that as an admission you wouldn't be able to tell the
difference and would be afraid to try lest you be proven wrong.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

> I'll take that as an admission you wouldn't be able to tell the
> difference and would be afraid to try lest you be proven wrong.

You took it wrong, which seems to be your operational norm. Bring it on,
the difference would be easy to spot. Of course, you wouldn't know given
the fact that you think oven baked brisket is the same as the real deal.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Ah, now this is more like the afb we all know and love. . .


"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> > Are you going to do the same test???
>>
>> I done passed the test and graduated magna *** laude a long time ago.
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>
> I'll take that as an admission you wouldn't be able to tell the
> difference and would be afraid to try lest you be proven wrong.
>
> Pete C.

Ah, now this is more like the afb we all know and love. . .


"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> > Are you going to do the same test???
>>
>> I done passed the test and graduated magna *** laude a long time ago.
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>
> I'll take that as an admission you wouldn't be able to tell the
> difference and would be afraid to try lest you be proven wrong.
>
> Pete C.

"CS" > wrote:
> Ah, now this is more like the afb we all know and love. . .
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> > Dave Bugg wrote:
> >> Pete C. wrote:
> >>
> >> > Are you going to do the same test???
> >>
> >> I done passed the test and graduated magna *** laude a long time ago.
> >> --
> >> www.davebbq.com
> >
> > I'll take that as an admission you wouldn't be able to tell the
> > difference and would be afraid to try lest you be proven wrong.
> >
Yup. Even to the top-posting!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

> Yup. Even to the top-posting!

Well, I'm done with the thread now that I've added Pete C to my killfile.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
> > Yup. Even to the top-posting!
>
> Well, I'm done with the thread now that I've added Pete C to my killfile.
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
challenged. Does seem to be your style...

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

> Dave Bugg wrote:
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Yup. Even to the top-posting!
> >
> > Well, I'm done with the thread now that I've added Pete C to my
> > killfile.


> Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
> challenged. Does seem to be your style...

I have to say that I don't really see what Pete's done that was so
awful, other than disagree with Dave and offer to take him up on a
taste test.




Brian


--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Twice!

You really have to love this place for the knowledgeable Q folks who pass
through.

So much to offer..hahahahaha.

My killfile is near to overflowing.

Graeme...who has got some black cherry wood...whooo hooo

> wrote in message
...
> "CS" > wrote:
> > Ah, now this is more like the afb we all know and love. . .

> Yup. Even to the top-posting!

"Graeme...in London" wrote:
>
> Twice!
>
> You really have to love this place for the knowledgeable Q folks who pass
> through.
>
> So much to offer..hahahahaha.
>
> My killfile is near to overflowing.

You shouldn't be such a wuss.

>Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
>challenged. Does seem to be your style...
OK boys, enough is enough. Now drop it.

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > Yup. Even to the top-posting!
>
> Well, I'm done with the thread now that I've added Pete C to my killfile.
>

That'll teach 'im..

Pete C. wrote:

> Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
> challenged. Does seem to be your style...

Either morphed or I didn't kill-file correctly, sigh, so be it.

Ok, jerk, here's the deal. We'll set a date at my place, we pick 5 members
of AFB who'll agree to judge. If three out of the 5 fail to pick my brisket
in blind judging, I close my store for a month, and permanently leave AFB.
If 3 out 5 fail to pick yours, you give me a certified check for
$8,000.00 --equivalent to my take home from profits -- and you leave AFB
permanently.

Let's see who hides or backtracks now.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
> > challenged. Does seem to be your style...
>
> Either morphed or I didn't kill-file correctly, sigh, so be it.
>
> Ok, jerk, here's the deal. We'll set a date at my place, we pick 5 members
> of AFB who'll agree to judge. If three out of the 5 fail to pick my brisket
> in blind judging, I close my store for a month, and permanently leave AFB.
> If 3 out 5 fail to pick yours, you give me a certified check for
> $8,000.00 --equivalent to my take home from profits -- and you leave AFB
> permanently.
>
> Let's see who hides or backtracks now.
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

That's not how the challenge works, both briskets have to be from the
same lot, seasoned the same and smoked on the same smoker, just for
different lengths of time. Both go in the smoker at the same time, one
comes out at the 6 hour mark and goes into the 250 degree convection
oven (no foil and on a rack so it does not sit in drippings) while the
other remains in the smoker. At the 16 hour mark, both are pulled from
their respective cookers, rested and then served. The judges then have
to identify which is which, which is the point I've been making that you
seem to be missing or avoiding.

This is not a contest to compare whether my 'Q is better than your 'Q
and I've made no assertions either way regarding that. I've also never
bashed your 'Q, but you've bashed mine. The assertion once again is that
you (or other judges) would not be able to tell the difference between
otherwise identical briskets where one is smoked for 16 hours and the
other is smoked for 6 hours and then finished in the oven for the
remaining 10 hours.

If you want to accept this challenge for real then I'd suggest finding a
"neutral" host location halfway between our locations (I'm in Denison,
TX), and a more realistic bet say $500.00 In fact the neutral host can
even do the cooking since this is not a contest of cooking skill, but
rather a contest of two different cooking techniques.

Just eyeballing it on the map it looks like somewhere between Denver and
Salt Lake City is about the halfway point. Do we have any members in
that region that would like to volunteer to host the challenge? As for
when, my schedule is pretty flexible so just about any time with a
couple weeks notice would be fine.

Pete C.

"Pete C." > wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote:
> >[ . . . ]
> > Ok, jerk, here's the deal. We'll set a date at my place, we pick 5
> > members of AFB who'll agree to judge. [ . . . ]
>
> That's not how the challenge works, both briskets have to be from the
> same lot, seasoned the same and smoked on the same smoker, just for
> different lengths of time. Both go in the smoker at the same time, one
> comes out at the 6 hour mark and goes into the 250 degree convection
> oven (no foil and on a rack so it does not sit in drippings) while the
> other remains in the smoker. At the 16 hour mark, both are pulled from
> their respective cookers, rested and then served. [ . . . ]

Time is not the benchmark. 192 F. internal is variable, too. When it's
done, it's done, shall be the whole of the Law. I have spoken!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote:
> > Dave Bugg wrote:
> > >[ . . . ]
> > > Ok, jerk, here's the deal. We'll set a date at my place, we pick 5
> > > members of AFB who'll agree to judge. [ . . . ]
> >
> > That's not how the challenge works, both briskets have to be from the
> > same lot, seasoned the same and smoked on the same smoker, just for
> > different lengths of time. Both go in the smoker at the same time, one
> > comes out at the 6 hour mark and goes into the 250 degree convection
> > oven (no foil and on a rack so it does not sit in drippings) while the
> > other remains in the smoker. At the 16 hour mark, both are pulled from
> > their respective cookers, rested and then served. [ . . . ]
>
> Time is not the benchmark. 192 F. internal is variable, too. When it's
> done, it's done, shall be the whole of the Law. I have spoken!
>
> --
> Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
> their families:
> http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
>
> Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

16 hours at 250 degrees regardless of the source pretty much guarantees
that it will have passed 192 degrees well before the time is up, if not
it's got to be one hell of a big brisket. Around here at the various 'Q
joints, 12 hours is probably the absolute minimum, with 24 hours not
uncommon.

Pete C.

"Pete C." > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> 16 hours at 250 degrees regardless of the source pretty much guarantees
> that it will have passed 192 degrees well before the time is up, if not
> it's got to be one hell of a big brisket. Around here at the various 'Q
> joints, 12 hours is probably the absolute minimum, with 24 hours not
> uncommon.
>
I, Damocles, will cut the thread, shortly. 12 hours is probably the
absolute minimum, with 24 hours not uncommon. 16 hours pretty much
guarantees that it will have been cut.

Then: PLONK!

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Pete C. wrote:

Now the backpeddling begins by Pete.

> That's not how the challenge works,

Yes, it does. That's what I had said:

"Come to my place, I don't want to embarass you on yer own turf. An oven's
not a pit, and your method aint 'Q. I'm sure Tony Roma made his first
compromise in the same way."

> both briskets have to be from the
> same lot, seasoned the same and smoked on the same smoker, just for
> different lengths of time.

Simple BS. Technique, mode and method are individual. You do it your way, I
do it mine. That's the way it goes.

> Both go in the smoker at the same time, one
> comes out at the 6 hour mark and goes into the 250 degree convection....

Blah, blah... Your technique is yours and mine is mine. You stated that
your oven-roast brisket would produce an identical brisket to one I would
produce. You made no conditions. Now you're trying to spin things so that I
will use YOUR method of cooking!!??? If you want a contest, you don't get to
paint me into the corner of lowering MY standards to your level. You do
your fake brisket Q I do mine the real way.

> This is not a contest to compare whether my 'Q is better than your 'Q

Yes it is. That's what it is all about. Your inferior cooking method
against my better way.

> and I've made no assertions either way regarding that. I've also never
> bashed your 'Q, but you've bashed mine.

You don't do 'Q. And by stating that yours is as good as mine is an
indirect bashing.

> The assertion once again is
> that you (or other judges) would not be able to tell the difference
> between otherwise identical briskets where one is smoked for 16 hours
> and the other is smoked for 6 hours and then finished in the oven for
> the remaining 10 hours.

That's right. Your way vs. my way. Your way of doing brisket vs my way.
That includes choice of equipment preparation, time, fuel, etc, etc. You
don't get to call the handicap. You do it your way, I do it mine.

> If you want to accept this challenge for real then I'd suggest
> finding a "neutral" host location halfway between our locations (I'm
> in Denison, TX), and a more realistic bet say $500.00 In fact the
> neutral host can even do the cooking since this is not a contest of
> cooking skill, but rather a contest of two different cooking
> techniques.

Quit trying to weasel. I am doing this for real. Real stakes, real pain for
the loser. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

> Just eyeballing it on the map it looks like somewhere between Denver
> and Salt Lake City is about the halfway point. Do we have any members
> in that region that would like to volunteer to host the challenge? As
> for when, my schedule is pretty flexible so just about any time with a
> couple weeks notice would be fine.

Wenatchee is the location. You made the challenge, I get to pick the
location. I'll arrange for any piece of equipment you want, and will rent
you a local house for use during your stay.

Take it or show us what a pussy you really are.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com