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KCBS vent
After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests,
last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be competing in the 2nd annual contest this year. The contest has affiliated itself with the Kansas City Barbecue Society, which has a different set of rules than the Memphis in May rules I cut my teeth on. Now, I understand that yankees and Texans have some diferent ideas about what BBQ is, and while I give them a lot of chin music, to each his own. If thats how they like the BBQ, then more power to them. Regional braggodocio is part of BBQ. But the KCBS has some of the most peculiar rules I've ever heard of. After insisting that their judging puts everyone on an even playing field (no on-site judging, as with MIM), they then hand out a list of restrictions and requirements on how you can prepare your blind judging sample. On the one hand, they do score you on presentation, and pictures of winning entries clearly show that judges reward well arranged containers with artfully placed garnish. On the other hand, if you dare to use red leaf lettuce as a garnish, arrange meat slices in a circular pattern, or get sauce on the lid, you're effectively disqualified. I don't understand. It seems to me that if they really wanted to be sure the competition was just about the meat, they'd give every sample a good shake before they opened it, so that there would only be meat to judge on - no garnish, no arrangement, no presentation. Or if they wanted to reward artful presentation, why have a bunch of bizzare restrictions on garnish and meat arrangement? Slices spread out on green leaf lettuce are OK, but a circular pattern on red leaf lettuce would somehow defile the purity of the contest? I don't get it. At least with MIM, the blind sample was really blind. No garnish, no arrangements. Just meat. When you were judged for presentation, it was by a judge who gave you the opportunity to show off your grill, talk about your cooking method, fix a complete late, and generally show him the sort of hospitality you'd show an honored guest. |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: I don't get it. At least with MIM, the blind sample was really blind. No :: garnish, no arrangements. Just meat. When you were judged for :: presentation, it was by a judge who gave you the opportunity to show off :: your grill, talk about your cooking method, fix a complete late, and :: generally show him the sort of hospitality you'd show an honored guest. Come on down and cook in a FBA (Florida Barbeque Association) contest. No salad allowed in your turn-in box. To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the judging class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the class could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on other things. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in news:m0N8g.20891$Sl4.14154
@bignews1.bellsouth.net: > To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the judging > class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to > illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the class > could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on other > things. > Yup. I say they ought to turn the box upside down and give it a good shake if they really want to do serious blind judgeing. Either eliminate presentation as a factor or do like Memphis in May and reallty let us present our meat in its best light. BTW - what IS their problem with red leaf lettuce, anyhow? |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:m0N8g.20891$Sl4.14154 :: @bignews1.bellsouth.net: :: ::: To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the judging ::: class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to ::: illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the class ::: could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on other ::: things. ::: :: :: Yup. I say they ought to turn the box upside down and give it a good shake :: if they really want to do serious blind judgeing. Either eliminate :: presentation as a factor or do like Memphis in May and reallty let us :: present our meat in its best light. MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because they aren't what *you* are used to. Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the rules? Start your own organization. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in news:%4O8g.20921$Sl4.20128
@bignews1.bellsouth.net: > MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because > they aren't what *you* are used to. No, as I explained, I don't like rules that don't make sense. What is the logic behind the KCBS rules on garnish and presentation? How does that further the goals of teh KCBS? > Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the > rules? Start your own organization. KCBS can't stand up to a little criticism? The rules can't be questioned or justified? Were they handed down to old man Mose on a stone tablet? |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:%4O8g.20921$Sl4.20128 :: @bignews1.bellsouth.net: :: ::: MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because ::: they aren't what *you* are used to. :: :: No, as I explained, I don't like rules that don't make sense. What is the :: logic behind the KCBS rules on garnish and presentation? How does that :: further the goals of teh KCBS? :: ::: Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the ::: rules? Start your own organization. :: :: KCBS can't stand up to a little criticism? The rules can't be questioned or :: justified? Were they handed down to old man Mose on a stone tablet? Go here and ask... http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ You'll find more people there that have actually competed than you will here. Some of the people that wrote (and change) the rules post there. Have fun. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
> After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests, > last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be snip KCBS rules sound like they were hammered out by the ladies social club or something. Not that ladies is bad, but you know what I mean. (grin) I've seen some of these contests on the boob tube and the chefs dressed like circus clowns! So, I agree with you, it is all hooey! -- Regards, Piedmont The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War" |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in message > Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the rules? > Start your own organization. > > BOB Good point. I have been to competitions, but I choose not to compete. I've had some great food as prepared by the contestants, but choose not to cook along with them. I guess you need some basic rules to keep things organized, but seems like most competitors are cooking to achieve a taste the judges will like, not what they want themselves. Sure, it does taste good, but personal preference is another matter and I may like another style, level of heat, dry or sauce, etc. |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote: > After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests, > last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be > competing in the 2nd annual contest this year. The contest has affiliated > itself with the Kansas City Barbecue Society, which has a different set > of rules than the Memphis in May rules I cut my teeth on. > Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested. Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of "non-uniform garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their entry, as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the presumption of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some (unlikely)chance this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged at a table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges, they might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked" entry. Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in the shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place. Most judges and their table captains are pretty good about recognizing an illegal garnish. I got a ding when they found a bristle from a sauce brush on a piece of chicken I'd submitted (no foreign objects allowed including toothpicks, skewers, etc.) The organizer let me know what they found and I was not penalized as in their estimation it was not an intentional marking of my entry. So, I learned, and went out and bought brushes that did not shed. Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the sanctioning body and the organizer. Pierre |
KCBS vent
On 12 May 2006 11:58:30 -0700, "Pierre" > wrote:
> So, I learned, and went out >and bought brushes that did not shed. Where? I don't believe I've ever seen such a critter. |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote: > On 12 May 2006 11:58:30 -0700, "Pierre" > wrote: > > > So, I learned, and went out > >and bought brushes that did not shed. > > Where? I don't believe I've ever seen such a critter. >From any Lhasa Apso. Can I make you one? (The silicon ones are the way to go, easy to clean too.) |
KCBS vent
"Pierre" > wrote in message oups.com... > >> Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK > to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the > sanctioning body and the organizer. > No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish is NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and usually doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. One thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for appearance -- Buzz 2fat Bikers bbq |
KCBS vent
2fatbbq wrote: > > No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish is > NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and usually > doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. One > thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for > appearance > > > -- > Buzz > 2fat Bikers bbq Buz, thanks for clarifying. The open garnish categories are usually for grilling events or chefs choice type events, which are sometimes held during the period of a KCBS sanctioned bbq contest. Pierre |
KCBS vent
"Pierre" > wrote in message ups.com... > > 2fatbbq wrote: >> >> No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish >> is >> NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and >> usually >> doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. >> One >> thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for >> appearance >> >> >> -- >> Buzz >> 2fat Bikers bbq > > Buz, thanks for clarifying. The open garnish categories are usually > for grilling events or chefs choice type events, which are sometimes > held during the period of a KCBS sanctioned bbq contest. > thats right--dessert catagories are usually the same Buzz |
KCBS vent
Pierre wrote:
> (The silicon ones are the way to go, easy to clean too.) Thanks for the tip, Pierre. I've been wondering if they would hold sauce the way a typical bristle brush will. -- Dave www.davebbq.com |
KCBS vent
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in message ::: Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the rules? ::: Start your own organization. ::: ::: BOB :: :: Good point. I have been to competitions, but I choose not to compete. I've :: had some great food as prepared by the contestants, but choose not to cook :: along with them. :: :: I guess you need some basic rules to keep things organized, but seems like :: most competitors are cooking to achieve a taste the judges will like, not :: what they want themselves. Sure, it does taste good, but personal :: preference is another matter and I may like another style, level of heat, :: dry or sauce, etc. Exactly. It's a game, like any other type of competition. If you choose to participate, you play by the rules. I'm a certified judge in both KCBS and FBA, and I sometimes cook with some cook teams. All of the teams know that it is a game. They'd never cook what they like to eat for a competition, and the food that they eat for their meals *at* the competitions are never the (generally) heavily sauced foods that they turn in. It's tough to leave personal preferences out of the judging portion, but (at least *I* try to) a judge is supposed to judge the entry "as it is presented". Yes, personal tastes and prejudices still enter into it. One example...I like pork butt pulled and slightly sauced with an eastern NC vinegar/pepper sauce. Will that score well in Florida/ No way. I won't penalize a team for turning in a sweetly sauced sample, but if I get one that I particularly like, it'll score higher on *MY* score sheet, but down here, I'll be in the minority. This is getting long, and I notice that the original troll, err, POSTER has pulled his usual "post a message, reply once, then run off when someone responds with a fact or two" type of troll. I bit. But, if this helps someone to understand why people compete in BBQ competitions, then the pain from the hook is OK, and will heal with no lasting scars. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
2fatbbq wrote:
:: "Pierre" > wrote in message :: oups.com... ::: :::: Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK ::: to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the ::: sanctioning body and the organizer. ::: :: :: No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish is :: NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and usually :: doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. One :: thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for :: appearance :: :: :: -- :: Buzz :: 2fat Bikers bbq In KCBS, garnish is optional, but many competitors feel that because the judges are used to seeing garnish, they just might be penalized for *not* garnishing. There was a recent KCBS contest in Viera (Melbourne area), Florida. Most of the contests in Florida are FBA (http://www.flbbq.org/) sanctioned. FBA does not allow garnish in the turn-in boxes. Many of the judges are certified in both organizations. Several of the top teams decided to turn in their bbq UN-garnished, just for fun, and to prove a point. About half of the teams agreed to go "unclad". The results? 3 of the top 5 (1, 2 and 3) did *not* garnish. I believe that 6 of the top 10 didn't garnish. Would they do it again? In a Florida KCBS contest? Maybe. In another area, say Kansas, Missouri, etc? No way. They had fun, proved a point and went on with their lives. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
"Pierre" > wrote in
oups.com: > Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the > http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested. Thanks. I'll consider that. > Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of "non-uniform > garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may > present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their entry, > as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the presumption > of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some (unlikely)chance > this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged at > a table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges, they > might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked" entry. > Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in the > shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that > reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place. But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to pick out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small relaxed BBQ contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what they're cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and tastes very distinctively different from the brown sugar, red pepper, and vinegar basted hickory smoked meat my neighbor was cooking. It wouldn't take a food expert to tell them apart or have some idea where they came from. So it seems to me that singling out garnish or meat rosettes is largely beside the point. Seems to me that you'd do better to either eliminate garnish and arrangements by having teams submit whole pieces, or allow teams to present however they see fit and trust judges not to play favorites. > Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK > to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the > sanctioning body and the organizer. I'm aware, hence my note that this was a KCBS contest. |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in news:w2M9g.72067$Jk3.20349
@bignews5.bellsouth.net: > I'm a certified judge in both KCBS and FBA, and I sometimes cook with > some cook teams. All of the teams know that it is a game. They'd > never cook what they like to eat for a competition, and the food that > they eat for their meals *at* the competitions are never the > (generally) heavily sauced foods that they turn in. Wow. I'm speechless. When I got into competitive BBQ 20+ years ago, everyone I cooked with was cooking the very best BBQ they knew how cook. The only difference between out contest meat and what we'd serve our friends or customers was that we took a little extra care to be sure the contest meat looked as good as it tasted and smelled. Competition culture is either completely different in KCBS, or its changed a lot since I quit competing 10 or so years ago. > It's tough to > leave personal preferences out of the judging portion, but (at least > *I* try to) a judge is supposed to judge the entry "as it is > presented". Yes, personal tastes and prejudices still enter into it. This is an issue for judges and critics everywhere. But there are still standards. Pork drenched in chocolate shouldn't win a BBQ > This is getting long, and I notice that the original troll, err, > POSTER has pulled his usual "post a message, reply once, then run off > when someone responds with a fact or two" type of troll. As I'm the original poster, consider me offended. Further, I'll suggest you google my past participation here before youaccuse me of trolling. Once again, I assumed that this was the sort of place someone might come to ask a question or throw out a comment regarding BBQ, so I did. My apologies if discussing BBQ contests in AFB or questioning the logic of KCBS rule upsets you. |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: As I'm the original poster, consider me offended. Further, Good. That's what I intended. :: I'll suggest :: you google my past participation here before youaccuse me of trolling. I don't need to google. I remembered right after I hit <send> :: :: Once again, I assumed that this was the sort of place someone might come :: to ask a question or throw out a comment regarding BBQ, so I did. My :: apologies if discussing BBQ contests in AFB or questioning the logic of :: KCBS rule upsets you. There are probably less than a dozen people (probably less than 6) posting here that have much experience with BBQ competitions. You were bitching about rules. I assumed that you would have at least read through the rules, possibly even studied them before you decided to compete. That's usually the way it is done, in *any* type of competition, whether it be tic-tack-toe, NASCAR, yacht racing or anything else. You don't understand or agree with the rules, it's *YOUR* problem, not that of the organizers or other competitors. I notice that you still haven't posted your question over at http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ where they just *MIGHT* have more information about how and when the KCBS rules were adopted. To me, this helps my assertion that you don't really care. You just want to bitch. Did you get disqualified for an illegal garnish? Sour Grapes? BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: "Pierre" > wrote in :: oups.com: :: ::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the ::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested. :: :: Thanks. I'll consider that. But not when I suggested it? :: ::: Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of "non-uniform ::: garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may ::: present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their entry, ::: as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the presumption ::: of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some (unlikely)chance ::: this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged at ::: a table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges, they ::: might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked" entry. ::: Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in the ::: shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that ::: reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place. :: :: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of :: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to pick :: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small relaxed BBQ BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging. :: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what they're :: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and tastes Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules. If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on garnish. Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned, others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in the allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules. Or maybe they just don't like you. It's easy to *not* like you, but in blind judging, it doesn't matter because no one knows who's product they are sampling. :: very distinctively different from the brown sugar, red pepper, and :: vinegar basted hickory smoked meat my neighbor was cooking. It wouldn't :: take a food expert to tell them apart or have some idea where they came :: from. So it seems to me that singling out garnish or meat rosettes is :: largely beside the point. Seems to me that you'd do better to either :: eliminate garnish and arrangements by having teams submit whole pieces, :: or allow teams to present however they see fit and trust judges not to :: play favorites. RTFR. In case you have never heard, it means Read The ****ing Rules. If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. :: ::: Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK ::: to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the ::: sanctioning body and the organizer. :: :: I'm aware, hence my note that this was a KCBS contest. Hence, you agreed to play by their rules. Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal garnish. Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:28:23 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
>Barry Bean wrote: >:: As I'm the original poster, consider me offended. Further, > >Good. That's what I intended. > >:: I'll suggest >:: you google my past participation here before youaccuse me of >trolling. > >I don't need to google. I remembered right after I hit <send> > >:: >:: Once again, I assumed that this was the sort of place someone might >come >:: to ask a question or throw out a comment regarding BBQ, so I did. >My >:: apologies if discussing BBQ contests in AFB or questioning the >logic of >:: KCBS rule upsets you. > >There are probably less than a dozen people (probably less than 6) >posting here that have much experience with BBQ competitions >I notice that you still haven't posted your question over at >http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ where they just *MIGHT* have more >information about how and when the KCBS rules were adopted. To me, >this helps my assertion that you don't really care. You just want to >bitch. > >Did you get disqualified for an illegal garnish? >Sour Grapes? > >BOB The way it was explained to me, way back when, is that regulating what is eligible as garnish, is yet one more way to remove any distinctive markings on the presentation box in case any competitor and a judge collaborated to enable *that* competitor to get an unfair advantage. It may not be much on its own, but in combination with other rules, it attempts to make the judging process as impartially fair as possible. After all there's frequently a lot of dough [meat;o) on the table, eh . . . . Harry |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in news:6WP9g.23393$Sl4.20209
@bignews1.bellsouth.net: > Barry Bean wrote: >:: As I'm the original poster, consider me offended. Further, > > Good. That's what I intended. > >:: I'll suggest >:: you google my past participation here before youaccuse me of > trolling. > > I don't need to google. I remembered right after I hit <send> Not very well, apparently. Out of curiosity, are you the poster who accused of of lying about about competing and then disappeared when I posted the photos from our last competition? > There are probably less than a dozen people (probably less than 6) > posting here that have much experience with BBQ competitions. You > were bitching about rules. I assumed that you would have at least > read through the rules, possibly even studied them before you decided > to compete. That's usually the way it is done, in *any* type of > competition, whether it be tic-tack-toe, NASCAR, yacht racing or > anything else. You don't understand or agree with the rules, it's > *YOUR* problem, not that of the organizers or other competitors. Once again, I didn't realize that KCBS was so sacrosanct that one dare not question the logic of a specific rule in a public BBQ forum. > Did you get disqualified for an illegal garnish? > Sour Grapes? Had you paid attention to the original post, you'd know the answer to this question. |
KCBS vent
On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:38:53 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
>Barry Bean wrote: >:: "Pierre" > wrote in >:: oups.com: >:: >::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to >the >::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested. >:: >:: Thanks. I'll consider that. > >But not when I suggested it? If so, does that tell you anything about your credibility? |
KCBS vent
" BOB" > wrote in news:Y3Q9g.23396$Sl4.8838
@bignews1.bellsouth.net: >:: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of >:: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to > pick >:: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small > relaxed BBQ > > BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging. With all due respect, I've been a MIM judge, I've competed in MIM and KCBS contests, I was a food critic for several years, and I've been a blind judge in BBQ, beer, wine, and chili contests, not to mention blind tastings of bourbon, scotch, and other liquors. I think that I am not only well acquainted with blind judgeing in general, I'm very familiar with blind judgeing and BBQ competitions. >:: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what > they're >:: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and > tastes > > Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules. > If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on garnish. > Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned, > others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in the > allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules. What does the fact that different cooks have different rubs, marinades, smoke sources, grills, cooking times have to do with garnish or marking? The fact is that many cooks produce very distinctive BBQ that can beeasily identified regardless of garnish or presentation. Once again, the point is that its not that hard for a seasoned judge to recognize a particular cook's meat if he's had it before. This could be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the judge and the cook, but I suspect most judges are honest enough that it wouldn't sway their scores either way. > Or maybe they just don't like you. Maybe they don't (which swould be surprising, considering how many of them came by the tent to visit, sample, and hang out), but what does that have to do with discussing the garnish rule? > Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal > garnish. No, no disqualification for me. We always play by the rules. > Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the > competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again. Did you read the original post? Again, if KCBS rules are so sacrosanct that they can never be questioned, I apologize. And thanks again for reminding me that AFB is the sort of place that cookers from all ranges of experience can come to share perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy conversation about BBQ. BTW - here's a few pics from last year's Malden in May (KCBS affiliated) contest. |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
> And thanks again for reminding me that AFB > is the sort of place that cookers from all ranges of experience can > come to share perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy > conversation about BBQ. IMO, this NG does just that. We all have our own perspectives, so we're not always gonna agree on a given issue, as you and BOB are presently doin. I must say I agree with BOB in principle; if you don't like the rules, don't compete. This seems rather simplistic. OTOH, if you think the rules need changin, then again as BOB suggested to ya, go to the sanctionin body's website and pose your questions/complaints there. Certainly continuin to gripe about em here will more than likely bring ya more contrarian comments; which it appears you're unwillin to accept. Just my 2 cents worth. -- -frohe Life is too short to be in a hurry |
KCBS vent
"frohe" > wrote in news:Tk0ag.25212$Qq.23667
@tornado.texas.rr.com: > I must say I agree with BOB in principle; if you don't like the rules, > don't compete. Had I posted a lengthy diatribe against the KCBS, complained bitterly for weeks, and insisted that others leave the society, you'd have a point. But I simply made a post in a public newsgroup questioning the logic of a couple of petty rules. I think the KCBS is string enough to stand it. A couple of other posters spoke up to either agree with me or explain the logic behind the rule. I appreciate those posters whether I agreed with them or not. But someone shouldn't be treated like a misbehaving child for simply questioning rules. It'd be simple enough to either explain the logic behind the rules or ignore the offending post. These sorts of attacks drive new posters and lurkers away. |
KCBS vent
On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:30:03 +0000 (UTC), Barry Bean
> wrote: >"frohe" > wrote in news:Tk0ag.25212$Qq.23667 : > >> I must say I agree with BOB in principle; if you don't like the rules, >> don't compete. > >Had I posted a lengthy diatribe against the KCBS, complained bitterly for >weeks, and insisted that others leave the society, you'd have a point. But >I simply made a post in a public newsgroup questioning the logic of a >couple of petty rules. I think the KCBS is string enough to stand it. > >A couple of other posters spoke up to either agree with me or explain the >logic behind the rule. I appreciate those posters whether I agreed with >them or not. > >But someone shouldn't be treated like a misbehaving child for simply >questioning rules. It'd be simple enough to either explain the logic behind >the rules or ignore the offending post. These sorts of attacks drive new >posters and lurkers away. Consider the source. Anyone who's been around AFB for more than a few weeks knows to give frohe's and BOB's posts all the consideration they deserve -- that is, none. |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson > wrote in
: > Consider the source. Thanks. I'll try to do a better job of that in the future. |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:6WP9g.23393$Sl4.20209 :: @bignews1.bellsouth.net: :: ::: Barry Bean wrote: ::::: As I'm the original poster, consider me offended. Further, ::: ::: Good. That's what I intended. ::: ::::: I'll suggest ::::: you google my past participation here before youaccuse me of trolling. ::: ::: I don't need to google. I remembered right after I hit <send> :: :: Not very well, apparently. Well, not as well as you troll, apparently. :: :: Out of curiosity, are you the poster who accused of of lying about about ??? try English. Oh, and *I* don't lie. You? :: competing and then disappeared when I posted the photos from our last :: competition? Huh? What the hell are you babbling about? This is a non-binary newsgroup. You don't want to post pictures here :: ::: There are probably less than a dozen people (probably less than 6) ::: posting here that have much experience with BBQ competitions. You ::: were bitching about rules. I assumed that you would have at least ::: read through the rules, possibly even studied them before you decided ::: to compete. That's usually the way it is done, in *any* type of ::: competition, whether it be tic-tack-toe, NASCAR, yacht racing or ::: anything else. You don't understand or agree with the rules, it's ::: *YOUR* problem, not that of the organizers or other competitors. :: :: Once again, I didn't realize that KCBS was so sacrosanct that one dare :: not question the logic of a specific rule in a public BBQ forum. You don't read for comprehension, do you? I told you where to ask your questions. Have you done it yet? There aren't many people here that even want to know about competition. You won't get much response here in this group. You like MIM. Unfortunately (for you) it is dwindling in popularity around the country. KCBS is growing. Get over it. :: ::: Did you get disqualified for an illegal garnish? ::: Sour Grapes? :: :: Had you paid attention to the original post, you'd know the answer to :: this question. I read your original post. You bitched about "they then hand out a list of restrictions and requirements on how you can prepare your blind judging sample." No mention whether or not you were DQ'ed for illegal garnish.. Just bitching because you didn't read the rules *BEFORE* entering the contest. All of the rules and regulations are availible on the KCBS website. If you had cared about the rules, you just might have checked to see what the rules said *BEFORE* you sent in your money and entry form. You didn't. You lose BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Harry Demidavicius wrote:
:: On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:28:23 -0400, " BOB" > wrote: :: ::: ::: There are probably less than a dozen people (probably less than 6) ::: posting here that have much experience with BBQ competitions :: :: ::: I notice that you still haven't posted your question over at ::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ where they just *MIGHT* have more ::: information about how and when the KCBS rules were adopted. To me, ::: this helps my assertion that you don't really care. You just want to ::: bitch. ::: ::: Did you get disqualified for an illegal garnish? ::: Sour Grapes? ::: ::: BOB :: :: The way it was explained to me, way back when, is that regulating :: what is eligible as garnish, is yet one more way to remove any :: distinctive markings on the presentation box in case any competitor :: and a judge collaborated to enable *that* competitor to get an unfair :: advantage. It may not be much on its own, but in combination with :: other rules, it attempts to make the judging process as impartially :: fair as possible. After all there's frequently a lot of dough :: [meat;o) on the table, eh . . . . :: :: Harry Exactly. Barry's just mad because he didn't read the rules *before* he sent in his money and entry form. BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:38:53 -0400, " BOB" > wrote: :: ::: Barry Bean wrote: ::::: "Pierre" > wrote in ::::: oups.com: ::::: :::::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the :::::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested. ::::: ::::: Thanks. I'll consider that. ::: ::: But not when I suggested it? :: :: If so, does that tell you anything about your credibility? More than yours? BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
On Mon, 15 May 2006 17:59:49 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
>All of the rules and regulations are availible on the KCBS website. >If you had cared about the rules, you just might have checked to see >what the rules said *BEFORE* you sent in your money and entry form. >You didn't. You lose No, you do, Chuckles. And you'll continue to lose for as long as you keep trying to put words in his mouth. |
KCBS vent
On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:01:28 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
>Exactly. Barry's just mad because he didn't read the rules *before* >he sent in his money and entry form. You just keep on twisting his words, Boob, and keep on digging that hole you've gotten yourself in. He's "mad," huh? And you know this how? Certainly not from what he posted, which was calm and reasonable. It also contained no mention of money, though you keep trying to make it seem as if money is some sort of issue here. Do you really think that if you keep saying the same thing over and over it will somehow come true? Some of us are paying attention, you know. |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: Consider the source. Anyone who's been around AFB for more than a few :: weeks knows to give frohe's and BOB's posts all the consideration they :: deserve -- that is, none. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Coming from YOU??????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????? The biggest troll and crossposter in this newsgroup????????????????????????????? Probably the most kil-filtered person (?) in this newsgroup????????????????????????????????? ROTFLPIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:Y3Q9g.23396$Sl4.8838 :: @bignews1.bellsouth.net: :: ::::: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of ::::: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to pick ::::: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small ::: relaxed BBQ ::: ::: BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging. :: :: With all due respect, I've been a MIM judge, I've competed in MIM and MIM is *NOT* KCBS. KCBS is *NOT* AZBBQA. MIM is *NOT* FBA. All of these (and other sanctioning bodies) have their own rules. Some places, these rules are similar. Some places they are as different as night and day. They are *NOT* the same. :: KCBS contests, I was a food critic for several years, and I've been a :: blind judge in BBQ, beer, wine, and chili contests, not to mention blind :: tastings of bourbon, scotch, and other liquors. I think that I am not :: only well acquainted with blind judgeing in general, I'm very familiar :: with blind judgeing and BBQ competitions. LOL! What does *ANY* of this have to do with you competing under KCBS rules, then bitching in *this* newsgroup when you get DQed for not following the rules? I gave you a link where your bitching could get you some answers. Someone else gave you the same link. You chose to *NOT* go the the KCBS BBQ forum and ask. It looks like you went toa KCBS contest and tried to compet using MIM rules and it didn't work. If you *are* qualified/certified in all of the different organizations you mention, then you should understand that each and every organization has different rules. Would you enter beer in a wine contest? Chili in a BBQ category in a BBQ contest? I didn't think so. :: ::::: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what they're ::::: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and ::: tastes ::: ::: Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules. ::: If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on garnish. ::: Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned, ::: others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in the ::: allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules. :: :: :: What does the fact that different cooks have different rubs, marinades, :: smoke sources, grills, cooking times have to do with garnish or marking? :: The fact is that many cooks produce very distinctive BBQ that can :: beeasily identified regardless of garnish or presentation. :: :: Once again, the point is that its not that hard for a seasoned judge to :: recognize a particular cook's meat if he's had it before. This could be :: an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the judge and the cook, but :: I suspect most judges are honest enough that it wouldn't sway their :: scores either way. :: ::: Or maybe they just don't like you. :: :: Maybe they don't (which swould be surprising, considering how many of :: them came by the tent to visit, sample, and hang out), but what does that :: have to do with discussing the garnish rule? :: ::: Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal ::: garnish. :: :: No, no disqualification for me. We always play by the rules. :: ::: Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the ::: competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again. :: :: Did you read the original post? :: :: Again, if KCBS rules are so sacrosanct that they can never be questioned, :: I apologize. And thanks again for reminding me that AFB is the sort of :: place that cookers from all ranges of experience can come to share :: perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy conversation about BBQ. Go question the rules on the forum I posted earlier. Over there, you will get answers from people that are actually *on* the KCBS rules committee. The rules are questioned. There is, in fact, a movement under way to get the use of garnish eleminated in KCBS. It's an uphill fight because so many of the KCBS members like the rule the way it is, but there is a growing movement to get it eliminated. BOB who is now finished with you in this thread until you ask your questions where you might get more than one person giving you answers with regards to the actual KCBS rules -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List and snipping ignored to **** off our resident troll |
KCBS vent
On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:44:27 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
>LOL! What does *ANY* of this have to do with you competing under KCBS >rules, then bitching in *this* newsgroup when you get DQed for not >following the rules? Put up or shut up, hot-shot. Please point us to a message ID for a post in which he was "bitching." While you're at it, point us to a message ID for a post in which he says he was disqualified for not following the rules. You've been putting words in his mouth from the very start, and when that doesn't work you just twist his words beyond all meaning. Like I told you before, some of us are paying attention, and your intellectually dishonest hand-waving isn't fooling anyone. >BOB >who is now finished with you in this thread until you ask your >questions where you might get more than one person giving you answers >with regards to the actual KCBS rules Run away. Beats continuing to look like an ass, as you've done so far. |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:44:27 -0400, " BOB" > wrote: :: ::: LOL! What does *ANY* of this have to do with you competing under KCBS ::: rules, then bitching in *this* newsgroup when you get DQed for not ::: following the rules? :: :: :: You've been putting words in his mouth from the very start, and when :: that doesn't work you just twist his words beyond all meaning. I've been reading your posts and learning. Slowly, I admit, but I am learning. :: ::: BOB ::: who is now finished with you in this thread until you ask your ^^^^ ::: questions where you might get more than one person giving you answers ::: with regards to the actual KCBS rules :: :: Run away. Beats continuing to look like an ass, as you've done so far. Read what I wrote...if Barry wants to ask on the KCBS forum, I'll join back in. LOL again at Kevvie BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: No, you do, Chuckles. And you'll continue to lose for as long as you :: keep trying to put words in his mouth. Heh heh. I've been paying attention to *your* posts. I'm not nearly as good, probably never, ever will be as good as you at twisting and putting words in other's mouths. I admit, Kevin, you are the king at twisting and changing content. LOL @ Kevvie! BOB wondering when this thread will be crossposted -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
KCBS vent
Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:01:28 -0400, " BOB" > wrote: :: ::: Exactly. Barry's just mad because he didn't read the rules *before* ::: he sent in his money and entry form. :: :: You just keep on twisting his words, Boob, and keep on digging that :: hole you've gotten yourself in. He's "mad," huh? And you know this :: how? Certainly not from what he posted, which was calm and reasonable. :: It also contained no mention of money, though you keep trying to make :: it seem as if money is some sort of issue here. :: :: Do you really think that if you keep saying the same thing over and :: over it will somehow come true? Some of us are paying attention, you :: know. Yep. An you are just ****ed because I'm using techniques that you thought that you had patent rights to. LOL @ mr potato head BOB -- Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List |
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