After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests,
last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be
competing in the 2nd annual contest this year. The contest has affiliated
itself with the Kansas City Barbecue Society, which has a different set
of rules than the Memphis in May rules I cut my teeth on.

Now, I understand that yankees and Texans have some diferent ideas about
what BBQ is, and while I give them a lot of chin music, to each his own.
If thats how they like the BBQ, then more power to them. Regional
braggodocio is part of BBQ.

But the KCBS has some of the most peculiar rules I've ever heard of.
After insisting that their judging puts everyone on an even playing field
(no on-site judging, as with MIM), they then hand out a list of
restrictions and requirements on how you can prepare your blind judging
sample.

On the one hand, they do score you on presentation, and pictures of
winning entries clearly show that judges reward well arranged containers
with artfully placed garnish.

On the other hand, if you dare to use red leaf lettuce as a garnish,
arrange meat slices in a circular pattern, or get sauce on the lid,
you're effectively disqualified.

I don't understand. It seems to me that if they really wanted to be sure
the competition was just about the meat, they'd give every sample a good
shake before they opened it, so that there would only be meat to judge on
- no garnish, no arrangement, no presentation. Or if they wanted to
reward artful presentation, why have a bunch of bizzare restrictions on
garnish and meat arrangement? Slices spread out on green leaf lettuce are
OK, but a circular pattern on red leaf lettuce would somehow defile the
purity of the contest?

I don't get it. At least with MIM, the blind sample was really blind. No
garnish, no arrangements. Just meat. When you were judged for
presentation, it was by a judge who gave you the opportunity to show off
your grill, talk about your cooking method, fix a complete late, and
generally show him the sort of hospitality you'd show an honored guest.

Barry Bean wrote:
:: I don't get it. At least with MIM, the blind sample was really
blind. No
:: garnish, no arrangements. Just meat. When you were judged for
:: presentation, it was by a judge who gave you the opportunity to
show off
:: your grill, talk about your cooking method, fix a complete late,
and
:: generally show him the sort of hospitality you'd show an honored
guest.

Come on down and cook in a FBA (Florida Barbeque Association) contest.

No salad allowed in your turn-in box.

To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the judging
class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to
illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the class
could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on other
things.

BOB

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

" BOB" > wrote in news:m0N8g.20891$Sl4.14154
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

> To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the judging
> class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to
> illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the class
> could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on other
> things.
>

Yup. I say they ought to turn the box upside down and give it a good shake
if they really want to do serious blind judgeing. Either eliminate
presentation as a factor or do like Memphis in May and reallty let us
present our meat in its best light.

BTW - what IS their problem with red leaf lettuce, anyhow?

Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:m0N8g.20891$Sl4.14154
:: @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
::
::: To further comment on your post about garnishes in KCBS, the
judging
::: class takes about 3 hours. Almost 2-1/2 hours of this pertains to
::: illgal garnishes. If they'd just do away with the garnish, the
class
::: could be slightly over 1/2 hour, or more time could be spent on
other
::: things.
:::
::
:: Yup. I say they ought to turn the box upside down and give it a
good shake
:: if they really want to do serious blind judgeing. Either eliminate
:: presentation as a factor or do like Memphis in May and reallty let
us
:: present our meat in its best light.

MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because
they aren't what *you* are used to.

Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the
rules? Start your own organization.

BOB



--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

" BOB" > wrote in news:%4O8g.20921$Sl4.20128
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

> MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because
> they aren't what *you* are used to.

No, as I explained, I don't like rules that don't make sense. What is the
logic behind the KCBS rules on garnish and presentation? How does that
further the goals of teh KCBS?

> Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the
> rules? Start your own organization.

KCBS can't stand up to a little criticism? The rules can't be questioned or
justified? Were they handed down to old man Mose on a stone tablet?

Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:%4O8g.20921$Sl4.20128
:: @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
::
::: MIM has it's own problems. You just don't like the others because
::: they aren't what *you* are used to.
::
:: No, as I explained, I don't like rules that don't make sense. What
is the
:: logic behind the KCBS rules on garnish and presentation? How does
that
:: further the goals of teh KCBS?
::
::: Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the
::: rules? Start your own organization.
::
:: KCBS can't stand up to a little criticism? The rules can't be
questioned or
:: justified? Were they handed down to old man Mose on a stone tablet?

Go here and ask...

http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/

You'll find more people there that have actually competed than you
will here. Some of the people that wrote (and change) the rules post
there.

Have fun.

BOB

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

" BOB" > wrote in message
> Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the rules?
> Start your own organization.
>
> BOB

Good point. I have been to competitions, but I choose not to compete. I've
had some great food as prepared by the contestants, but choose not to cook
along with them.

I guess you need some basic rules to keep things organized, but seems like
most competitors are cooking to achieve a taste the judges will like, not
what they want themselves. Sure, it does taste good, but personal
preference is another matter and I may like another style, level of heat,
dry or sauce, etc.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in message
::: Don't like the rules? Play another game. Don't like any of the
rules?
::: Start your own organization.
:::
::: BOB
::
:: Good point. I have been to competitions, but I choose not to
compete. I've
:: had some great food as prepared by the contestants, but choose not
to cook
:: along with them.
::
:: I guess you need some basic rules to keep things organized, but
seems like
:: most competitors are cooking to achieve a taste the judges will
like, not
:: what they want themselves. Sure, it does taste good, but personal
:: preference is another matter and I may like another style, level of
heat,
:: dry or sauce, etc.

Exactly. It's a game, like any other type of competition. If you
choose to participate, you play by the rules.

I'm a certified judge in both KCBS and FBA, and I sometimes cook with
some cook teams. All of the teams know that it is a game. They'd
never cook what they like to eat for a competition, and the food that
they eat for their meals *at* the competitions are never the
(generally) heavily sauced foods that they turn in. It's tough to
leave personal preferences out of the judging portion, but (at least
*I* try to) a judge is supposed to judge the entry "as it is
presented". Yes, personal tastes and prejudices still enter into it.

One example...I like pork butt pulled and slightly sauced with an
eastern NC vinegar/pepper sauce. Will that score well in Florida/ No
way. I won't penalize a team for turning in a sweetly sauced sample,
but if I get one that I particularly like, it'll score higher on *MY*
score sheet, but down here, I'll be in the minority.

This is getting long, and I notice that the original troll, err,
POSTER has pulled his usual "post a message, reply once, then run off
when someone responds with a fact or two" type of troll. I bit. But,
if this helps someone to understand why people compete in BBQ
competitions, then the pain from the hook is OK, and will heal with no
lasting scars.

BOB


--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

Barry Bean wrote:
> After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests,
> last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be
snip

KCBS rules sound like they were hammered out by the ladies social club
or something. Not that ladies is bad, but you know what I mean. (grin)

I've seen some of these contests on the boob tube and the chefs dressed
like circus clowns!

So, I agree with you, it is all hooey!

--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Barry Bean wrote:
> After a many-years hiatus from competing in and judging BBQ contests,
> last year, I was talked into entering a new local contest, and will be
> competing in the 2nd annual contest this year. The contest has affiliated
> itself with the Kansas City Barbecue Society, which has a different set
> of rules than the Memphis in May rules I cut my teeth on.
>

Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the
http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested.

Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of "non-uniform
garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may
present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their entry,
as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the presumption
of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some (unlikely)chance
this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged at a
table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges, they
might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked" entry.
Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in the
shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that
reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place.

Most judges and their table captains are pretty good about recognizing
an illegal garnish. I got a ding when they found a bristle from a
sauce brush on a piece of chicken I'd submitted (no foreign objects
allowed including toothpicks, skewers, etc.) The organizer let me know
what they found and I was not penalized as in their estimation it was
not an intentional marking of my entry. So, I learned, and went out
and bought brushes that did not shed.
Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK
to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the
sanctioning body and the organizer.

Pierre

On 12 May 2006 11:58:30 -0700, "Pierre" > wrote:

> So, I learned, and went out
>and bought brushes that did not shed.

Where? I don't believe I've ever seen such a critter.

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> On 12 May 2006 11:58:30 -0700, "Pierre" > wrote:
>
> > So, I learned, and went out
> >and bought brushes that did not shed.
>
> Where? I don't believe I've ever seen such a critter.

>From any Lhasa Apso. Can I make you one?

(The silicon ones are the way to go, easy to clean too.)

Pierre wrote:

> (The silicon ones are the way to go, easy to clean too.)

Thanks for the tip, Pierre. I've been wondering if they would hold sauce the
way a typical bristle brush will.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Denny Wheeler" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 19:40:59 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
> wrote:
>
>>Pierre wrote:
>>
>>> (The silicon ones are the way to go, easy to clean too.)
>>
>>Thanks for the tip, Pierre. I've been wondering if they would hold sauce
>>the
>>way a typical bristle brush will.
>
> I have one silicone brush and I love it. I'll be buying more, and
> other cooking utensils also.
>
Silicon brushes are very good---so are the silicone spatulas but got some
silicon bakeware for Xmas and it sucks royally!!

Buzz

"Pierre" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK
> to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the
> sanctioning body and the organizer.
>

No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish is
NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and usually
doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. One
thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for
appearance


--
Buzz
2fat Bikers bbq

2fatbbq wrote:
>
> No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish is
> NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and usually
> doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel.. One
> thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for
> appearance
>
>
> --
> Buzz
> 2fat Bikers bbq

Buz, thanks for clarifying. The open garnish categories are usually
for grilling events or chefs choice type events, which are sometimes
held during the period of a KCBS sanctioned bbq contest.

Pierre

"Pierre" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> 2fatbbq wrote:
>>
>> No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact garnish
>> is
>> NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and
>> usually
>> doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I feel..
>> One
>> thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for
>> appearance
>>
>>
>> --
>> Buzz
>> 2fat Bikers bbq
>
> Buz, thanks for clarifying. The open garnish categories are usually
> for grilling events or chefs choice type events, which are sometimes
> held during the period of a KCBS sanctioned bbq contest.
>
thats right--dessert catagories are usually the same
Buzz

2fatbbq wrote:
:: "Pierre" > wrote in message
:: oups.com...
:::
:::: Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and
it's OK
::: to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to
the
::: sanctioning body and the organizer.
:::
::
:: No kcbs contests are open garnish for the 4 main meats! In fact
garnish is
:: NOT required! One friend did earn an entry to the JD last year and
usually
:: doesn't use garnish @ KCBS contest--but it is a disadvantage I
feel.. One
:: thing to "member is that scores are weighted--IIRC about 25% is for
:: appearance
::
::
:: --
:: Buzz
:: 2fat Bikers bbq


In KCBS, garnish is optional, but many competitors feel that because
the judges are used to seeing garnish, they just might be penalized
for *not* garnishing.

There was a recent KCBS contest in Viera (Melbourne area), Florida.
Most of the contests in Florida are FBA (http://www.flbbq.org/)
sanctioned. FBA does not allow garnish in the turn-in boxes. Many of
the judges are certified in both organizations. Several of the top
teams decided to turn in their bbq UN-garnished, just for fun, and to
prove a point. About half of the teams agreed to go "unclad".

The results? 3 of the top 5 (1, 2 and 3) did *not* garnish. I
believe that 6 of the top 10 didn't garnish.

Would they do it again? In a Florida KCBS contest? Maybe. In
another area, say Kansas, Missouri, etc? No way. They had fun,
proved a point and went on with their lives.

BOB
--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

"Pierre" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to the
> http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested.

Thanks. I'll consider that.

> Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of "non-uniform
> garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may
> present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their entry,
> as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the presumption
> of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some (unlikely)chance
> this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged at
> a table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges, they
> might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked" entry.
> Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in the
> shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that
> reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place.

But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of
contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to pick
out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small relaxed BBQ
contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what they're
cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and tastes
very distinctively different from the brown sugar, red pepper, and
vinegar basted hickory smoked meat my neighbor was cooking. It wouldn't
take a food expert to tell them apart or have some idea where they came
from. So it seems to me that singling out garnish or meat rosettes is
largely beside the point. Seems to me that you'd do better to either
eliminate garnish and arrangements by having teams submit whole pieces,
or allow teams to present however they see fit and trust judges not to
play favorites.

> Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's OK
> to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to the
> sanctioning body and the organizer.

I'm aware, hence my note that this was a KCBS contest.

Barry Bean wrote:
:: "Pierre" > wrote in
:: oups.com:
::
::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to
the
::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested.
::
:: Thanks. I'll consider that.

But not when I suggested it?

::
::: Here's my take: Its been my understanding that the use of
"non-uniform
::: garnish", (if a contestant choses to use any garnish at all), may
::: present an opportunity for any given entrant to identify their
entry,
::: as unique to all others submitted. This would defeat the
presumption
::: of chosing entries that are truly blind. If by some
(unlikely)chance
::: this actually happened, such that your entry happened to be judged
at
::: a table with whom you've become friends with some of the judges,
they
::: might be inclined to alter their score upon viewing a "marked"
entry.
::: Not just by garnish, but by; for example arranging your meat in
the
::: shape of an "X", or painting the lid with sauce; it is for that
::: reason(s) that the garnish rules are in place.
::
:: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of
:: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to
pick
:: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small
relaxed BBQ

BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging.

:: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what
they're
:: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and
tastes

Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules.
If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on garnish.
Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned,
others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in the
allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules.

Or maybe they just don't like you. It's easy to *not* like you, but
in blind judging, it doesn't matter because no one knows who's product
they are sampling.

:: very distinctively different from the brown sugar, red pepper, and
:: vinegar basted hickory smoked meat my neighbor was cooking. It
wouldn't
:: take a food expert to tell them apart or have some idea where they
came
:: from. So it seems to me that singling out garnish or meat rosettes
is
:: largely beside the point. Seems to me that you'd do better to
either
:: eliminate garnish and arrangements by having teams submit whole
pieces,
:: or allow teams to present however they see fit and trust judges not
to
:: play favorites.

RTFR. In case you have never heard, it means Read The ****ing Rules.
If you don't like the rules, don't play the game.
::
::: Keep in mind, some contests are "open garnish". Go ahead and it's
OK
::: to Grandma's doilees under your lamb kabob. The rules are up to
the
::: sanctioning body and the organizer.
::
:: I'm aware, hence my note that this was a KCBS contest.

Hence, you agreed to play by their rules.

Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal
garnish. Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the
competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again.

BOB




--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:38:53 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:

>Barry Bean wrote:
>:: "Pierre" > wrote in
>:: oups.com:
>::
>::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to
>the
>::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested.
>::
>:: Thanks. I'll consider that.
>
>But not when I suggested it?

If so, does that tell you anything about your credibility?

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
:: On Sun, 14 May 2006 20:38:53 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:
::
::: Barry Bean wrote:
::::: "Pierre" > wrote in
::::: oups.com:
:::::
:::::: Barry for an indepth discussion, you might pose the question to
the
:::::: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/ board, as Bob suggested.
:::::
::::: Thanks. I'll consider that.
:::
::: But not when I suggested it?
::
:: If so, does that tell you anything about your credibility?

More than yours?

BOB


--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

" BOB" > wrote in news:Y3Q9g.23396$Sl4.8838
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

>:: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group of
>:: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult to
> pick
>:: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small
> relaxed BBQ
>
> BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging.

With all due respect, I've been a MIM judge, I've competed in MIM and
KCBS contests, I was a food critic for several years, and I've been a
blind judge in BBQ, beer, wine, and chili contests, not to mention blind
tastings of bourbon, scotch, and other liquors. I think that I am not
only well acquainted with blind judgeing in general, I'm very familiar
with blind judgeing and BBQ competitions.

>:: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what
> they're
>:: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and
> tastes
>
> Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules.
> If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on garnish.
> Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned,
> others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in the
> allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules.


What does the fact that different cooks have different rubs, marinades,
smoke sources, grills, cooking times have to do with garnish or marking?
The fact is that many cooks produce very distinctive BBQ that can
beeasily identified regardless of garnish or presentation.

Once again, the point is that its not that hard for a seasoned judge to
recognize a particular cook's meat if he's had it before. This could be
an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the judge and the cook, but
I suspect most judges are honest enough that it wouldn't sway their
scores either way.

> Or maybe they just don't like you.

Maybe they don't (which swould be surprising, considering how many of
them came by the tent to visit, sample, and hang out), but what does that
have to do with discussing the garnish rule?

> Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal
> garnish.

No, no disqualification for me. We always play by the rules.

> Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the
> competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again.

Did you read the original post?

Again, if KCBS rules are so sacrosanct that they can never be questioned,
I apologize. And thanks again for reminding me that AFB is the sort of
place that cookers from all ranges of experience can come to share
perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy conversation about BBQ.

BTW - here's a few pics from last year's Malden in May (KCBS affiliated)
contest.

Barry Bean wrote:
> And thanks again for reminding me that AFB
> is the sort of place that cookers from all ranges of experience can
> come to share perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy
> conversation about BBQ.

IMO, this NG does just that. We all have our own perspectives, so
we're not always gonna agree on a given issue, as you and BOB are
presently doin.

I must say I agree with BOB in principle; if you don't like the rules,
don't compete. This seems rather simplistic. OTOH, if you think the
rules need changin, then again as BOB suggested to ya, go to the
sanctionin body's website and pose your questions/complaints there.
Certainly continuin to gripe about em here will more than likely bring
ya more contrarian comments; which it appears you're unwillin to
accept.

Just my 2 cents worth.

--
-frohe
Life is too short to be in a hurry

Barry Bean wrote:
:: " BOB" > wrote in news:Y3Q9g.23396$Sl4.8838
:: @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
::
::::: But the fact of the matter is that when there are a core group
of
::::: contestants and a core group of judges, its not that difficult
to pick
::::: out someone's BBQ, especially when over the course of a small
::: relaxed BBQ
:::
::: BULL SHIT! You know nothing about blind judging.
::
:: With all due respect, I've been a MIM judge, I've competed in MIM
and

MIM is *NOT* KCBS. KCBS is *NOT* AZBBQA. MIM is *NOT* FBA.
All of these (and other sanctioning bodies) have their own rules.
Some places, these rules are similar. Some places they are as
different as night and day. They are *NOT* the same.

:: KCBS contests, I was a food critic for several years, and I've been
a
:: blind judge in BBQ, beer, wine, and chili contests, not to mention
blind
:: tastings of bourbon, scotch, and other liquors. I think that I am
not
:: only well acquainted with blind judgeing in general, I'm very
familiar
:: with blind judgeing and BBQ competitions.

LOL! What does *ANY* of this have to do with you competing under KCBS
rules, then bitching in *this* newsgroup when you get DQed for not
following the rules?

I gave you a link where your bitching could get you some answers.
Someone else gave you the same link. You chose to *NOT* go the the
KCBS BBQ forum and ask.

It looks like you went toa KCBS contest and tried to compet using MIM
rules and it didn't work.

If you *are* qualified/certified in all of the different organizations
you mention, then you should understand that each and every
organization has different rules. Would you enter beer in a wine
contest? Chili in a BBQ category in a BBQ contest? I didn't think
so.

::
::::: contest, you've had a chance to visit each team and sample what
they're
::::: cooking. My mesquite smoked sage rubbed meat looks, smells and
::: tastes
:::
::: Maybe you are "Marking" Look it up. It's in the rules.
::: If the sage was in large flakes or chunks, read the rule on
garnish.
::: Specific things are allowed. Others (some specifically mentioned,
::: others not specifically mentioned) are not. If they are *NOT* in
the
::: allowed list, they are illegal. Read the rules.
::
::
:: What does the fact that different cooks have different rubs,
marinades,
:: smoke sources, grills, cooking times have to do with garnish or
marking?
:: The fact is that many cooks produce very distinctive BBQ that can
:: beeasily identified regardless of garnish or presentation.
::
:: Once again, the point is that its not that hard for a seasoned
judge to
:: recognize a particular cook's meat if he's had it before. This
could be
:: an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the judge and the
cook, but
:: I suspect most judges are honest enough that it wouldn't sway their
:: scores either way.
::
::: Or maybe they just don't like you.
::
:: Maybe they don't (which swould be surprising, considering how many
of
:: them came by the tent to visit, sample, and hang out), but what
does that
:: have to do with discussing the garnish rule?
::
::: Sounds (again) like you were disqualified for using an illegal
::: garnish.
::
:: No, no disqualification for me. We always play by the rules.
::
::: Did you bother to read the rules *BEFORE* you went to the
::: competition? If so, tuff luck. If not, tuff luck again.
::
:: Did you read the original post?
::
:: Again, if KCBS rules are so sacrosanct that they can never be
questioned,
:: I apologize. And thanks again for reminding me that AFB is the
sort of
:: place that cookers from all ranges of experience can come to share
:: perspective, ask questions, and generally enjoy conversation about
BBQ.

Go question the rules on the forum I posted earlier. Over there, you
will get answers from people that are actually *on* the KCBS rules
committee. The rules are questioned. There is, in fact, a movement
under way to get the use of garnish eleminated in KCBS. It's an
uphill fight because so many of the KCBS members like the rule the way
it is, but there is a growing movement to get it eliminated.

BOB
who is now finished with you in this thread until you ask your
questions where you might get more than one person giving you answers
with regards to the actual KCBS rules

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List
and snipping ignored to **** off our resident troll