On May 30, 9:56*pm, ND > wrote:
> "St. Louis residents have grown accustomed to seeing local corporations gobbled up by outside firms. But losing Anheuser-Busch could be the cruelest cut of all...
>
> "Reports that the company might be purchased by brewer InBev of Belgium have residents worried they might lose a company as closely identified with St.. Louis as the iconic Gateway Arch..."
>
> Associated Press article:http://easyurl.net/KingOfBeers

crap happens! Rockingham, N.C. lost a 500 mile race event due
to pure greed!

On May 30, 10:20 pm, Blue > wrote:
> On May 30, 9:56 pm, ND > wrote:
>
> > "St. Louis residents have grown accustomed to seeing local corporations gobbled up by outside firms. But losing Anheuser-Busch could be the cruelest cut of all...
>
> > "Reports that the company might be purchased by brewer InBev of Belgium have residents worried they might lose a company as closely identified with St. Louis as the iconic Gateway Arch..."
>
> > Associated Press article:http://easyurl.net/KingOfBeers
>
> crap happens! Rockingham, N.C. lost a 500 mile race event due
> to pure greed!

The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe actually saving
the Brewery. The St Louis location is the oldest and first Busch
location. But I often wondered if someday they would move their main
headquarters somewhere else.

> wrote:

> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe
> actually saving the Brewery. The St Louis location is
> the oldest and first Busch location. But I often
> wondered if someday they would move their main
> headquarters somewhere else.

Belguim is the Valhalla for beer. IIRC a Belgium
company owns half of the Ommegang Brewery in
Cooperstown, NY.

If Busch is sold to a Belgium company, I foresee a
loss of some executive jobs in StL, but not a loss
of any jobs on the brewery floor. Bud's suppply
chain and its distribution network are vital to
maintaining its market share and they are all a
function of the StL brewery.

If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
them at the stake.

Dick

wrote:

> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe actually saving
> the Brewery.

That may be, but InBev is not responsible for the beers that most people
think of as representing the best qualities of Belgian beer.

As for saving the brewery, I'm not really sure A-B is in need of saving.
While market share for standard North American lagers has been flat for
many years, A-B has managed to take market share from Miller and Coors.
Although, if I recall correctly (and I may very well not be), A-B's
growth has slowed in recent years as well.

The reason InBev is looking at A-B is not because A-B is struggling.
It's because A-B wants a strong foothold in the North American market,
and A-B's the one takeover opportunity. And with the weakness of the
dollar against the euro (1 euro is worth ~$1.55 today, compared to 1
euro being worth 85 cents seven years ago), InBev has very favorable
economic conditions for such a deal.

Besides, an InBev acquisition would have a strong chance of increasing
production at A-B breweries, as the company will likely seek to produce
some of its brands in North America for North American consumption,
rather than importing bottles/kegs/cans from Europe.

-Steve

Dick Adams wrote:

> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> them at the stake.

Um, there aren't many fires around the Stella Artois brewery (owned by
InBev, incidentally).

-Steve

On May 31, 12:38 pm, Steve Jackson > wrote:
> Dick Adams wrote:
> > If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> > lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> > them at the stake.
>
> Um, there aren't many fires around the Stella Artois brewery (owned by
> InBev, incidentally).
>
> -Steve

However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium Trappist
Brewery. My knowledge came from the Trappistine nuns near by. (see
link below) Trappistine nuns from Belgium opened up an American
Monastery in Redwoods of Calf.
http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html

"Dick Adams" > schreef in bericht
...
> > wrote:
>
>> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe
>> actually saving the Brewery.

Arguably, but it certainly isn't produced by InBev. Moreover, InBev is a
Brazilian company to me.

> Belguim is the Valhalla for beer. IIRC a Belgium
> company owns half of the Ommegang Brewery in
> Cooperstown, NY.
>
Not half. Lock, stock & barrel owned by Duvel-Moortgat


> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> them at the stake.
>

Absolutely not - it would only reinforce their aura of superiority.

On 5/31/2008 11:12 AM ignored two million years of
human evolution to write:

> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium Trappist
> Brewery.

Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the Netherlands.
Their existences are hardly a secret, and beers from all except one of
them are available in the USA.
--
dgs

On May 31, 1:53 pm, "Joris Pattyn" > wrote:
> "Dick Adams" > schreef in ...
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe
> >> actually saving the Brewery.
>
> Arguably, but it certainly isn't produced by InBev. Moreover, InBev is a
> Brazilian company to me.
>
> > Belguim is the Valhalla for beer. IIRC a Belgium
> > company owns half of the Ommegang Brewery in
> > Cooperstown, NY.
>
> Not half. Lock, stock & barrel owned by Duvel-Moortgat
>
> > If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> > lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> > them at the stake.
>
> Absolutely not - it would only reinforce their aura of superiority.
--------------------------------

You can click on the other topics at the top of this page

http://www.chimay.com/en/brewery_214.php

It sort of amazes me that the monks still over-look the operations of
the Brewery

On 5/31/2008 10:38 AM Steve Jackson ignored two million years of human
evolution to write:

> Dick Adams wrote:
>
>> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
>> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
>> them at the stake.
>
> Um, there aren't many fires around the Stella Artois brewery (owned by
> InBev, incidentally).

Or sister brewery Jupiler, or SCAM's Maes brewery, and even smaller
concerns like Bavik put out an everyday lager; hell, even Mechelen's
Het Anker brewery, known mainly for its Gouden Carolus line, makes
a lager.

And there are some beers, like Bavik's awful sweet Wittekerke Rosé,
that are still mediocr junk, no matter how credible the base beer and
brewer might be. Belgians are perfectly capable of producing (and
sometimes, consuming) mediocre swill, as is any brewing country.
--
dgs

On 5/31/2008 10:36 AM Steve Jackson ignored two million years of human
evolution to write:

> wrote:
>
>> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe actually saving
>> the Brewery.
>
> That may be, but InBev is not responsible for the beers that most people
> think of as representing the best qualities of Belgian beer.

InBev is largely responsible for dumbing down the beer range from
breweries they have taken over, ruining the Belle-Vue lambic range,
making Hoegaarden Wit blander (and deleting some of Hoegaarden's
former specialties from the range), and so on. Some of their bottom-
line dominated decision making, like attempting to close the De Kluis
brewery at Hoegaarden and move production to the lager factory at
Jupille, proved to be unworkable, and they wound up re-opening the
line at Hoegaarden. Once in a very great while, even brewing behemoths
can be humbled by reality.

> Although, if I recall correctly (and I may very well not be), A-B's
> growth has slowed in recent years as well.

In product volume, yes, which is true across the board for the biggest
of the corporate macrobreweries. A-B has done all right in holding the
line on margins, but A-B still also dabbles in more potentially
profitable business as well: repositioning and expanding the Michelob
line to appeal to a market that's moved away from Bud/Bud Light/Busch,
but still likes a bargain. A-B also owns substantial chunks of Widmer
and Redhook, and has deals with Kona Brewing and Goose Island as well,
bringing all those brands into its distribution portfolio. And of
course, A-B is already the importer of record for InBev's Belgian beers;
if A-B imported and distributed all InBev brands, it would control a
sizeable share of the import market, what with Beck's, Spaten,
Staropramen, Diebels, Bass, Labatt's, and so on. Wouldn't be at all
surprised to see a massive consolidation of these brands' distribution
networks should an AnBev (or is it InBusch?) merger take place, complete
with lots of yelling and shouting and lawsuits galore.

> The reason InBev is looking at A-B is not because A-B is struggling.
> It's because A-B wants a strong foothold in the North American market,
> and A-B's the one takeover opportunity.

The reason *who* wants a strong foothold? (Yeah, I know what you
meant. PSYCH!)
--
dgs

On 5/31/2008 11:53 AM Joris Pattyn ignored two million years of human
evolution to write:

> "Dick Adams" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The best beer though comes from Belgium and they maybe
>>> actually saving the Brewery.
>
> Arguably, but it certainly isn't produced by InBev. Moreover, InBev is a
> Brazilian company to me.

Just come out and say it: "InBev is dead to me."

>> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
>> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
>> them at the stake.
>
> Absolutely not - it would only reinforce their aura of superiority.

Which would be mildly amusing, coming from the brewers at Chimay.
("What shall we tell the poor dears?")
--
dgs

On 5/31/2008 8:42 AM Dick Adams ignored two million years of human
evolution to write:

ObPetPeeve:

BELGIUM is the name of a country.

BELGIAN is the adjective used to describe things and people from
BELGIUM.

> Belguim is the Valhalla for beer.

Often, yes. Always, no. There are plenty of dumpy little dive
pubs in Belgium with a limited range on offer.

> IIRC a Belgium
> company owns half of the Ommegang Brewery in
> Cooperstown, NY.

A *BELGIAN* compay, Duvel-Moortgaat, owns both halves of
Ommegang.

> If Busch is sold to a Belgium company,

The talk is of a merger between A-B and a *BELGIAN* company.

> I foresee a
> loss of some executive jobs in StL, but not a loss
> of any jobs on the brewery floor. Bud's suppply
> chain and its distribution network are vital to
> maintaining its market share and they are all a
> function of the StL brewery.

A-B's distribution network also currently markets InBev's
Belgian imports in the USA. It is possible that many other
brands in InBev's range would get sucked in to that network,
to the detriment of the existing importers. Kinda like what
happened with Corona and Gambrinus Co. in Texas.

> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> them at the stake.

That would engender far more "Sturm und Drang" than the monks
would ever want to endure. They would simply rest assured in smug
contemplation that their beers are the best. Some are, some aren't
what they were at one time, and at least one, while very good, is
massively overhyped.
--
dgs

On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:32:22 -0700, yd+yg+as
> wrote:

>On 5/31/2008 8:42 AM Dick Adams ignored two million years of human
>evolution to write:
>
>ObPetPeeve:
>
>BELGIUM is the name of a country.

Flanders or Wallonia?
--
"Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?"
David J. Hayward

> wrote:
> Steve Jackson > wrote:
>> Dick Adams wrote:

>>> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
>>> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
>>> them at the stake.

>> Um, there aren't many fires around the Stella Artois
>> brewery (owned by InBev, incidentally).

> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the
> Belgium Trappist Brewery.

Why be impressed by common knowledge?

> My knowledge came from the Trappistine nuns near by.
> (see link below) Trappistine nuns from Belgium
> opened up an American Monastery in Redwoods of Calf.

I believe he Trappistine nuns make candies, not beer.

> http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html

I didn't notice anything about nuns in the above
link

Dick

yd+yg+as wrote:
> On 5/31/2008 11:12 AM ignored two million years of
> human evolution to write:
>
>> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium Trappist
>> Brewery.
>
> Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the Netherlands.
> Their existences are hardly a secret, and beers from all except one of
> them are available in the USA.

Quibble: Beers from all of them are available in the States. One, of
them, however, is not legally available.

-S

yd+yg+as wrote:

> Wouldn't be at all
> surprised to see a massive consolidation of these brands' distribution
> networks should an AnBev (or is it InBusch?) merger take place, complete
> with lots of yelling and shouting and lawsuits galore.

Nor would I. I'm sure that's one of the reasons InBev is eyeing the
transaction. But I still think the things that are really lighting up
their eyes are the entry into North America, and the ability to brew
some of their core brands in the States, rather than in Europe (similar
to how Guinness Extra Stout is brewed in Canada).

>> The reason InBev is looking at A-B is not because A-B is struggling.
>> It's because A-B wants a strong foothold in the North American market,
>> and A-B's the one takeover opportunity.
>
> The reason *who* wants a strong foothold? (Yeah, I know what you
> meant. PSYCH!)


Yeah, got one too many A-Bs in there. InBev wants in NA. A-B is already
quite established in NA.

-S

> InBev is largely responsible for dumbing down the beer range from
> breweries they have taken over, ruining the Belle-Vue lambic range,
>

Hmmm. With the exception of the not very often produced Sélection Lambic, as
well as with the vatted lambics, as good as never leaving the Henegouwenkaai
plant, there wasn't a lot to ruin in that shed. And Belle-Vue themselves had
a longstanding record themselves of ruining excellent producers of
spontaneously fermented beers, ending with the manslaughter on De Neve in
St. Gertrudis - Pede.

>>> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium
>>> Trappist Brewery.

>> Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the
>> Netherlands. Their existences are hardly a secret, and
>> beers from all except one of them are available in the USA.

Quibble: Beers from all of them are available in the States. On
> One of them, however, is not legally available.

I have purchased the following within the last year:
Chimay Grande Reserve
Rochefort 10
Westmalle Dubbel
Westvleteren 12

So the Monasteries in question:
Achelse Kluis
Orval
Koningshoeven (Netherlands)

So which one is not legally available? And why?

Dick

On May 31, 10:42 pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
> > wrote:
> > Steve Jackson > wrote:
> >> Dick Adams wrote:
> >>> If the Belgians started brewing Industrial Light
> >>> lagers in Belgium, the Trappist Monks would burn
> >>> them at the stake.
> >> Um, there aren't many fires around the Stella Artois
> >> brewery (owned by InBev, incidentally).
> > However I am impressed that Dick knew about the
> > Belgium Trappist Brewery.
>
> Why be impressed by common knowledge?
>
> > My knowledge came from the Trappistine nuns near by.
> > (see link below) Trappistine nuns from Belgium
> > opened up an American Monastery in Redwoods of Calf.
>
> I believe he Trappistine nuns make candies, not beer.
>
> >http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html
>
> I didn't notice anything about nuns in the above
> link
>
> Dick
Each of the Trappistine convents have what is called a "Father
Immediate". That monastery of 'monks' sort of assists their assigned
convent to help them with support of all sorts, sometimes even
physical work, farming etc. The nuns that I met from Belgium, headed
to California, told us that their "Father Immediate" used to give them
beer from their brewery.
Seemed humorous to us that they lucked out with who their father-
immediate was.

"Dick Adams" > schreef in bericht
...
>>>> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium
>>>> Trappist Brewery.
>
>>> Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the
>>> Netherlands. Their existences are hardly a secret, and
>>> beers from all except one of them are available in the USA.
>
> Quibble: Beers from all of them are available in the States. On
>> One of them, however, is not legally available.
>
> I have purchased the following within the last year:
> Chimay Grande Reserve
> Rochefort 10
> Westmalle Dubbel
> Westvleteren 12
>
> So the Monasteries in question:
> Achelse Kluis
> Orval
> Koningshoeven (Netherlands)
>
> So which one is not legally available? And why?
>

Your Westvleteren 12 ought to have been perfectly illegal - at least at one
stage, because:
1° Westvleteren abbey explicitely refuses to export
2° Every customer has to declare (on the bill) that he will refrain from any
second sale of the purchased goods.

So, the only legal way for a non-resident of Belgium to obtain a
Westvleteren, is to make an appointment with the abbey, and purchase himself
the goods. Any subsequent sale being out of the question, of course.

Joris Pattyn wrote:

> "Dick Adams" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>
>>>>>However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium
>>>>>Trappist Brewery.
>>
>>>>Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the
>>>>Netherlands. Their existences are hardly a secret, and
>>>>beers from all except one of them are available in the USA.
>>
>>Quibble: Beers from all of them are available in the States. On
>>
>>>One of them, however, is not legally available.
>>
>>I have purchased the following within the last year:
>> Chimay Grande Reserve
>> Rochefort 10
>> Westmalle Dubbel
>> Westvleteren 12
>>
>>So the Monasteries in question:
>> Achelse Kluis
>> Orval
>> Koningshoeven (Netherlands)
>>
>>So which one is not legally available? And why?
>>
>
>
> Your Westvleteren 12 ought to have been perfectly illegal - at least at one
> stage, because:
> 1° Westvleteren abbey explicitely refuses to export
> 2° Every customer has to declare (on the bill) that he will refrain from any
> second sale of the purchased goods.
>
> So, the only legal way for a non-resident of Belgium to obtain a
> Westvleteren, is to make an appointment with the abbey, and purchase himself
> the goods. Any subsequent sale being out of the question, of course.

Could you give it away, as a present?

Or give it to anyone who bought one of your (strangely overpriced)
bottle openers? -Eric

yd+yg+as > wrote:
>ObPetPeeve:
>
>BELGIUM is the name of a country.
>
>BELGIAN is the adjective used to describe things and people from
>BELGIUM.

The bartenders and waiters at the restaurant I ate at
last night think Belgium is spelled C-A-N-A-D-A. They
confidently told me Blanche de Chambly was not from Canada
as I told my lovely wife, but was from Belgium.
--

Joel Plutchak "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com - Sheldon Miller

yd+yg+as > wrote:
>InBev is largely responsible for dumbing down the beer range from
>breweries they have taken over, ruining the Belle-Vue lambic range...

When was Belle-Vue good? The first time I tried it (in a
bar in Tempe AZ of all places, circa 1991) I was distinctly
unimpressed.
--

Joel Plutchak "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com - Sheldon Miller

"Joris Pattyn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dick Adams" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>>>>> However I am impressed that Dick knew about the Belgium
>>>>> Trappist Brewery.
>>
>>>> Dunno why. There are six of them, plus a seventh in the
>>>> Netherlands. Their existences are hardly a secret, and
>>>> beers from all except one of them are available in the USA.
>>
>> Quibble: Beers from all of them are available in the States. On
>>> One of them, however, is not legally available.
>>
>> I have purchased the following within the last year:
>> Chimay Grande Reserve
>> Rochefort 10
>> Westmalle Dubbel
>> Westvleteren 12
>>
>> So the Monasteries in question:
>> Achelse Kluis
>> Orval
>> Koningshoeven (Netherlands)
>>
>> So which one is not legally available? And why?
>>
>
> Your Westvleteren 12 ought to have been perfectly illegal - at least at
> one stage, because:
> 1° Westvleteren abbey explicitely refuses to export
> 2° Every customer has to declare (on the bill) that he will refrain from
> any second sale of the purchased goods.
>
> So, the only legal way for a non-resident of Belgium to obtain a
> Westvleteren, is to make an appointment with the abbey, and purchase
> himself the goods. Any subsequent sale being out of the question, of
> course.

The Belgian Shop is the biggest culprit.(that's how I got my 6 bottles of 12
and 4 of the 8) They, a company based in Belgium, obviously don't respect
the wishes of the Abbey and sell the beers *online* for delivery to just
about anywhere in the world, so how can we, the consumers of fine beer,
resist the temptation? ;^)

Btw, I traded away 7 of the bottles I bought.




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>
> Btw, I traded away 7 of the bottles I bought.
>

What for? A crate of Romanée Conti? ;^}

"Joris Pattyn" > wrote in message
...
> >
>> Btw, I traded away 7 of the bottles I bought.
>>
>
> What for? A crate of Romanée Conti? ;^}
>
Dammit, I had to Google that! lol
IIRC, and I'm pretty sure I do, I traded them for local brews of the people
I traded with.




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On 6/1/2008 7:44 AM Joel ignored two million years of human evolution to
write:

> yd+yg+as > wrote:
>> InBev is largely responsible for dumbing down the beer range from
>> breweries they have taken over, ruining the Belle-Vue lambic range...
>
> When was Belle-Vue good? The first time I tried it (in a
> bar in Tempe AZ of all places, circa 1991) I was distinctly
> unimpressed.

See Joris's post for more, but Belle-Vue was in a long and
unhappy process of dumbing down for years, so no surprise that
you had yet another dull, lifeless Belle-Vue product in 1991.

The last Belle-Vue Selection Lambic was produced in something
like 1999, AFAIK, and its appearance before then was also
rather infrequent. It was, at the least, good. There are
still hidden stashes of the '99 bottles in dwindling quantity.

It's not impossible for a bigger corporate brewing company to
turn a specialty lambic-brewer loose to make something good.
SCAM (Scottish Courage - Alken-Maes) did it with its Mort
Subite brewery, in Kobbegem, Belgium, releasing the Oude
Gueuze and Oude Kriek in recent years. I haven't seen them
as imports in the USA, unfortunately.
--
dgs

On 5/31/2008 2:13 PM David V. Loewe, Jr ignored two million years of
human evolution to write:

> On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:32:22 -0700, yd+yg+as
> > wrote:
>
>> On 5/31/2008 8:42 AM Dick Adams ignored two million years of human
>> evolution to write:
>>
>> ObPetPeeve:
>>
>> BELGIUM is the name of a country.
>
> Flanders or Wallonia?

Yes.

yd+yg+as > wrote:
>The last Belle-Vue Selection Lambic was produced in something
>like 1999, AFAIK, and its appearance before then was also
>rather infrequent. It was, at the least, good. There are
>still hidden stashes of the '99 bottles in dwindling quantity.

If you see any, snatch it up. I'll do the same. Next time
we meet we'll imbibe. :-)
--

Joel Plutchak "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com - Sheldon Miller

Joel wrote:

> yd+yg+as > wrote:
>
>>The last Belle-Vue Selection Lambic was produced in something
>>like 1999, AFAIK, and its appearance before then was also
>>rather infrequent. It was, at the least, good. There are
>>still hidden stashes of the '99 bottles in dwindling quantity.
>
> If you see any, snatch it up. I'll do the same. Next time
> we meet we'll imbibe. :-)

Geez, what has it been now, seven years? The time, how it does
fly...

I've already put aside a decent collection of sour beers, including
several lambics, but if I were to stumble on a '99 Selection Lambic in
upcoming travels, sure, yeah, maybe. My current Beery Grails are
bottles of Soleil de Minuit and Goldackerl, both from Cantillon, and
I wouldn't turn down a bottle of Druivenlambic from 3 Fonteinen. 3F's
Hommage, Doesjel, and Schaerbekse Kriek are all good, as is Cantillon's
Cuvee des Champions. With all that, the '99 Selection Lambic sort of
fades into the background.

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Hope you enjoy, let me know if you would like more info!