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Beer (rec.drink.beer) Discussing various aspects of that fine beverage referred to as beer. Including interesting beers and beer styles, opinions on tastes and ingredients, reviews of brewpubs and breweries & suggestions about where to shop. |
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In article >, dgs > wrote:
>Craig Bergren wrote: >> [...] >> Corn is a new world grain, a post-columbian import to Asia and Europe. >> Thus Miller is more American because it uses American ingredients. > >It uses *an* ingredient that was native to the Americas. Rice is grown >in the USA. It has become an American crop, thus an American >ingredient. If you don't think so, then that makes the vast majority >of Americans "not American" for the same reason. Vast majority? I'd guess if you go back far enough there would be no such thing as a "native American." >Wanna guess where barley comes from, then? And wheat? Cargill. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: >I never wrote >that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take >into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points >because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, >they use hops that aren't even grown here. That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only uses US-grown hops. Is that true? Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew. grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: >I never wrote >that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take >into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points >because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, >they use hops that aren't even grown here. That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only uses US-grown hops. Is that true? Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew. grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: >I never wrote >that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take >into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points >because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, >they use hops that aren't even grown here. That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only uses US-grown hops. Is that true? Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew. grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"dgs" > wrote in message >> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn syrup (and >> some brewer's corn), and the corn syrup is mainly sugar, so it ferments >> out fairly cleanly. If you taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to >> something else. > >Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. Bite me, big guy. Yeah, Miller tastes very clean to me-- I did a side by side of Miller and Bud when Da Bears played home games down here and that was the only beer they sold in the stadium. No corn flavor in Miller at all, but the Bud had that nasty taste (I'm insensitive to acetaldehyde per se but do get it as a slightly "off" flavor). Shiner (and Rolling Rock) simply *screams* corn to my acetaldehyde-impaired palate. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"dgs" > wrote in message >> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn syrup (and >> some brewer's corn), and the corn syrup is mainly sugar, so it ferments >> out fairly cleanly. If you taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to >> something else. > >Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. Bite me, big guy. Yeah, Miller tastes very clean to me-- I did a side by side of Miller and Bud when Da Bears played home games down here and that was the only beer they sold in the stadium. No corn flavor in Miller at all, but the Bud had that nasty taste (I'm insensitive to acetaldehyde per se but do get it as a slightly "off" flavor). Shiner (and Rolling Rock) simply *screams* corn to my acetaldehyde-impaired palate. -- Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:42:47 +0000, Joel wrote:
> Craig Bergren > wrote: >>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: I never wrote >>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take >>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points >>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, >>they use hops that aren't even grown here. > > That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only > uses US-grown hops. Is that true? > Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew. > grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm. It's reasonable to assume that Miller uses domestic hops. I didn't find any evidence that they were buying a significant portion (8%) of an entire country's (Czech Republic) production as is the case with Bud. |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:42:47 +0000, Joel wrote:
> Craig Bergren > wrote: >>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: I never wrote >>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take >>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points >>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, >>they use hops that aren't even grown here. > > That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only > uses US-grown hops. Is that true? > Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew. > grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm. It's reasonable to assume that Miller uses domestic hops. I didn't find any evidence that they were buying a significant portion (8%) of an entire country's (Czech Republic) production as is the case with Bud. |
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![]() On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Craig Bergren wrote: > On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:10:49 -0800, mainunderdawg wrote: > > > I know many of you may shun these, but for us beer drinkers with budgets, > > what do you say? It's hard to say, but I think I prefer budweiser. > > > Bud is brewed with rice, Miller with corn. This makes Miller the more > American of the two because corn comes from America while rice is an > Asian import. I think the taste you like in Bud is the flavor of the > beechwood aging. Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller, > while the rice contributes practically no taste at all to Bud. Both are > about 90% fermentable, contributing alcohol while adding practically > nothing to the body. > > As far as freshness goes, both Bud and Miller are quite religious about > removing out of date beer from distributors and retailers. What > constitutes old? Beer that is 120 days old. > > When it comes to my favorite, it's Blatz. It has a skunk taste just like > Heineken and Becks. > > > -CB > Pay attention, cus that's a good troll! |
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![]() On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Craig Bergren wrote: > On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:10:49 -0800, mainunderdawg wrote: > > > I know many of you may shun these, but for us beer drinkers with budgets, > > what do you say? It's hard to say, but I think I prefer budweiser. > > > Bud is brewed with rice, Miller with corn. This makes Miller the more > American of the two because corn comes from America while rice is an > Asian import. I think the taste you like in Bud is the flavor of the > beechwood aging. Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller, > while the rice contributes practically no taste at all to Bud. Both are > about 90% fermentable, contributing alcohol while adding practically > nothing to the body. > > As far as freshness goes, both Bud and Miller are quite religious about > removing out of date beer from distributors and retailers. What > constitutes old? Beer that is 120 days old. > > When it comes to my favorite, it's Blatz. It has a skunk taste just like > Heineken and Becks. > > > -CB > Pay attention, cus that's a good troll! |
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"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
news:Fubvd.2634 > And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of the > hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho - > Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate. Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. I just got the smell of urine out of my keyboard from the last one of these... -- Lew Bryson "I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill www.lewbryson.com Author of "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., available at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...4/sr=1-2/103-7 272174-3121415 |
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"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
news:Fubvd.2634 > And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of the > hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho - > Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate. Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. I just got the smell of urine out of my keyboard from the last one of these... -- Lew Bryson "I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill www.lewbryson.com Author of "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., available at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...4/sr=1-2/103-7 272174-3121415 |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:22:28 +0000, Lew Bryson wrote:
> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in message > news:Fubvd.2634 >> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of > the >> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho >> - Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate. > > Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. Since when was 8% overwhelming. I suppose if it is contrasted to all other sources, Elk Mountain is the largest source, still it produces less than 8% of the hops used by AB. I couldn't find any figures on how much of it is Saaz, but they harvested approximately 1.5 million pounds which is about 2 times the Saaz they bought from the Czech republic, but still only 8% of AB total hop usage. http://www.czhops.cz/stats2003.html http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/hopfarms.html |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:22:28 +0000, Lew Bryson wrote:
> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in message > news:Fubvd.2634 >> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of > the >> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho >> - Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate. > > Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. Since when was 8% overwhelming. I suppose if it is contrasted to all other sources, Elk Mountain is the largest source, still it produces less than 8% of the hops used by AB. I couldn't find any figures on how much of it is Saaz, but they harvested approximately 1.5 million pounds which is about 2 times the Saaz they bought from the Czech republic, but still only 8% of AB total hop usage. http://www.czhops.cz/stats2003.html http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/hopfarms.html |
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"Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
news ![]() > On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote: > >> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message >> news ![]() >>> Rice originates from somewhere near Thailand. It was first grown in the >>> United States on large plantations in the Carolinas (Carolina Golden). >>> The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to >>> cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white >>> endentured servants from Europe lacked. >> >> I'm wondering where you got the info. Isn't malaria still more than a >> little problematic in sub-Saharan Africa? And I was under the impression >> that cotton supplied more of the demand for slave labor than anything >> else. But I'm far from an expert on either point, so my impressions could >> be way off. > > Where did I say Africans were immune to malaria? Go exactly seven lines of text above that question. "The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white endentured servants from Europe lacked. > I said they were the > basis of the slave trade, imported to work the swamps in the Carlolinas > because they were more resistant to malaria. They were also more resistant > to yellow fever. These beliefs may not be real, but the importers of the > slaves certainly thought they were true at the time. Cotton was also a > demand for slaves, but the trade was already well established by the > earlier rice plantations. It wasn't until introduction of the cotton > gin that cotton began to replace rice and rice cultivation moved to > Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas. Certainly when this country was founded, > rice was king in the deep south with indigo a close second. And now that you mention this, the fog's lifting a bit from that corner of my brain. IIRC, the cotton gin and resultant increase in cotton cultivation sparked a revivial of sorts in the slave trade and upped demand for slaves. > Please speak for yourself. I didn't say that Bud is un-American, only > that Miller is more American than Bud. Not only does Miller use > ingredients that are grown in the US, they use ingredients that are > indigenous to the US. Bud not only uses foreign grown hops, their grain > bill is completely of imported varieties of grain. After all, what could > be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness! I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective. > >> pasta Chinese, because they came up with the noodle long before the >> Italians. We don't say that hamburgers aren't very American because >> cattle aren't native to the Western Hemisphere. We don't say that >> Hershey's is > > I would never say that hamburgers, or for that matter, hot dogs are not > American. Hamburgers come from beef, which comes from cattle, which are not indigenous to the United States. Hot dogs are typically made from pork, which is a different species than the wild boars present in North America and come from elsewhere. Under your definitions, hamburgers and hot dogs are not American. Which is just daft. > However, I would say that corn flakes are more American than > either. Nothing is more American than the BATF. You're good at that non-sequiter thing. > >> really more Mexican than anything, since that's where Europeans >> discovered >> chocolate, or that Starbucks is more Colombian than American. >> > > Every educated American knows that the best chocolate is Belgian or Swiss > and Starbucks is communist, the worst thing an American can be. Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is one of the centerpieces of Marx's writing. -Steve |
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"Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
news ![]() > On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote: > >> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message >> news ![]() >>> Rice originates from somewhere near Thailand. It was first grown in the >>> United States on large plantations in the Carolinas (Carolina Golden). >>> The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to >>> cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white >>> endentured servants from Europe lacked. >> >> I'm wondering where you got the info. Isn't malaria still more than a >> little problematic in sub-Saharan Africa? And I was under the impression >> that cotton supplied more of the demand for slave labor than anything >> else. But I'm far from an expert on either point, so my impressions could >> be way off. > > Where did I say Africans were immune to malaria? Go exactly seven lines of text above that question. "The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white endentured servants from Europe lacked. > I said they were the > basis of the slave trade, imported to work the swamps in the Carlolinas > because they were more resistant to malaria. They were also more resistant > to yellow fever. These beliefs may not be real, but the importers of the > slaves certainly thought they were true at the time. Cotton was also a > demand for slaves, but the trade was already well established by the > earlier rice plantations. It wasn't until introduction of the cotton > gin that cotton began to replace rice and rice cultivation moved to > Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas. Certainly when this country was founded, > rice was king in the deep south with indigo a close second. And now that you mention this, the fog's lifting a bit from that corner of my brain. IIRC, the cotton gin and resultant increase in cotton cultivation sparked a revivial of sorts in the slave trade and upped demand for slaves. > Please speak for yourself. I didn't say that Bud is un-American, only > that Miller is more American than Bud. Not only does Miller use > ingredients that are grown in the US, they use ingredients that are > indigenous to the US. Bud not only uses foreign grown hops, their grain > bill is completely of imported varieties of grain. After all, what could > be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness! I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective. > >> pasta Chinese, because they came up with the noodle long before the >> Italians. We don't say that hamburgers aren't very American because >> cattle aren't native to the Western Hemisphere. We don't say that >> Hershey's is > > I would never say that hamburgers, or for that matter, hot dogs are not > American. Hamburgers come from beef, which comes from cattle, which are not indigenous to the United States. Hot dogs are typically made from pork, which is a different species than the wild boars present in North America and come from elsewhere. Under your definitions, hamburgers and hot dogs are not American. Which is just daft. > However, I would say that corn flakes are more American than > either. Nothing is more American than the BATF. You're good at that non-sequiter thing. > >> really more Mexican than anything, since that's where Europeans >> discovered >> chocolate, or that Starbucks is more Colombian than American. >> > > Every educated American knows that the best chocolate is Belgian or Swiss > and Starbucks is communist, the worst thing an American can be. Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is one of the centerpieces of Marx's writing. -Steve |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:49:41 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote:
> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message > news ![]() >> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote: >> >> After all, what could >> be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness! > > I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English > hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something > worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective. Some of their hops come from the UK, but I would guess that more come from America than the UK. That, however, does not make a Guinness more American than the potato. http://www.greensbeverages.com/guinness.html Over 600 tonnes are used by the Guinness brewery each year, almost 1% of the world crop, these are mainly sourced from the USA, Austrailia the UK and Germany; Golding are the main variety. The comparison is between two things not native to Ireland. English Porter and potatoes. Potatoes come from South America, Porter comes from England. Even though they've been growing potatoes for roughly 500 years, they've been growing barley since the neolithic period (roughly 5000 years) and they've been making Guinness for 245 years (since 1759) and the Irish did put some creative work into morphing the London Porter into Dry Irish Stout, Guinness, but not much into the potato. Therefore Guinness is more Irish than the potato. >> Nothing is more American than the BATF. > > You're good at that non-sequiter thing. > > I'm not the one who brought hamburgers, chocolate, and coffee into this discussion! What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms? > Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant > capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is > one of the centerpieces of Marx's writing. > You're right, my bad, since 9-11 the worst thing for an American to be is French. Starbucks is French, the worst thing an American can be. CB |
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"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
news ![]() Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm intended. >> > Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller, >> >> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn >> syrup (and some brewer's corn), No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No actual corn to be seen. They actually have a "hot shed" that they can pull the rail cars full of "dextrose" through. The whole thing (corn syrup, the tank it's in, the rail car it sits on, etc.) are all heated to 90F so that the syrup is more viscous (oh, carp [sic]...less viscous...flows more, like, better). >> and the corn syrup is >> mainly sugar, so it ferments out fairly cleanly. If you >> taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to something else. Wha...!? Can you say PreProPils? Of course, corn-ish flavors can be the result of poor process. But corn, if used intentionally, can certainly contribute to flavor and aroma. > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category. Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA > www.lewbryson.com Heh! I LOVE it! How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well. |
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"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
news ![]() Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm intended. >> > Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller, >> >> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn >> syrup (and some brewer's corn), No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No actual corn to be seen. They actually have a "hot shed" that they can pull the rail cars full of "dextrose" through. The whole thing (corn syrup, the tank it's in, the rail car it sits on, etc.) are all heated to 90F so that the syrup is more viscous (oh, carp [sic]...less viscous...flows more, like, better). >> and the corn syrup is >> mainly sugar, so it ferments out fairly cleanly. If you >> taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to something else. Wha...!? Can you say PreProPils? Of course, corn-ish flavors can be the result of poor process. But corn, if used intentionally, can certainly contribute to flavor and aroma. > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category. Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA > www.lewbryson.com Heh! I LOVE it! How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well. |
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Craig Bergren > wrote in
news ![]() > Now you are attributing ideas to me that I didn't think. I > never wrote that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is > more American. If we take into consideration hops, Bud is > loses even more All American points because not only do > they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, they > use hops that aren't even grown here. I get your first point (hops grown in the US v. those that are not). Bud makes a big deal (or did) out of using Saazer. At <13IBU you can't taste 'em...so who gives a ****? Blow 200 semis through Willamette and buy all the second-grade Cascade you can find. Bud's chemists will find a way... Re Miller. The following is from my June 14, 1997 visit to Miller Irwindale with Master Brewer...Oh, let's call him 'Brewer G'. The words are mine, not his (brackets are added specifically for this post): <<< HOPS Miller uses many more varieties of hops than I would have guessed. Included are Galena, Cluster, Mt. Hood, and Cascade. None are leaf [err, flower], some are in pellet form, but most of the hops used are in the form of extracts, which, unfortunately, were not labeled as to variety. Some of the boxes containing hop pellets were labelled "de- bittered". I asked "Brewer G" if these were the fabled hop hearts, but he had no idea what I was talking about. I guess he doesn't watch as much TV as I do. But I suspect that these were them. It was interesting to note that alpha acid ratings were printed on the non-"de-bittered" boxes, but there was no alpha rating on the boxes in question. The de-bittered pellets themselves had no aroma whatsoever [though the ambient temp was ~40F so, duh]. >>> Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA |
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Craig Bergren > wrote in
news ![]() > Now you are attributing ideas to me that I didn't think. I > never wrote that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is > more American. If we take into consideration hops, Bud is > loses even more All American points because not only do > they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, they > use hops that aren't even grown here. I get your first point (hops grown in the US v. those that are not). Bud makes a big deal (or did) out of using Saazer. At <13IBU you can't taste 'em...so who gives a ****? Blow 200 semis through Willamette and buy all the second-grade Cascade you can find. Bud's chemists will find a way... Re Miller. The following is from my June 14, 1997 visit to Miller Irwindale with Master Brewer...Oh, let's call him 'Brewer G'. The words are mine, not his (brackets are added specifically for this post): <<< HOPS Miller uses many more varieties of hops than I would have guessed. Included are Galena, Cluster, Mt. Hood, and Cascade. None are leaf [err, flower], some are in pellet form, but most of the hops used are in the form of extracts, which, unfortunately, were not labeled as to variety. Some of the boxes containing hop pellets were labelled "de- bittered". I asked "Brewer G" if these were the fabled hop hearts, but he had no idea what I was talking about. I guess he doesn't watch as much TV as I do. But I suspect that these were them. It was interesting to note that alpha acid ratings were printed on the non-"de-bittered" boxes, but there was no alpha rating on the boxes in question. The de-bittered pellets themselves had no aroma whatsoever [though the ambient temp was ~40F so, duh]. >>> Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA |
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![]() > What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms? BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt. But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to north America, but I'm willing to be wrong. Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it. American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other two...what are you on about? Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA |
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![]() > What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms? BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt. But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to north America, but I'm willing to be wrong. Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it. American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other two...what are you on about? Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA |
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![]() > What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms? BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt. But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to north America, but I'm willing to be wrong. Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it. American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other two...what are you on about? Scott Kaczorowski Seal Beach, CA |
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:56:09 -0500, Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
> > No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No actual corn > to be seen. Totally in keeping the the All American business process of outsourcing. Why convert your own corn starch to sugar when you can outsource the process to ADM? It's shame that shipping costs prohibit moving the process to India. |
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"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in > Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm > intended. Nah, they got bought by SBC Yahoo, but we still have the addresses, for which I'm thankful. Beats changing it, even with the spam. The address is essentially a fossil. > > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. > > You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category. Do I taste something in Shiner that tastes like corn on the cob or cornbread or grits or cornmeal? No. Do I taste another sweet, vaguely grainy flavor that I think Joel (and you, evidently) thinks is corn? Yes. > > www.lewbryson.com > > Heh! I LOVE it! So does my Mom. > How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well. Pretty good, actually. 2004 is shaping up to have been my best year ever for writing income, by a strong margin, and my marriage and family are great. How's by you? -- Lew Bryson www.LewBryson.com Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both available at <www.amazon.com> The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it, or respond to it. Spam away. |
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"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in > Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm > intended. Nah, they got bought by SBC Yahoo, but we still have the addresses, for which I'm thankful. Beats changing it, even with the spam. The address is essentially a fossil. > > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck. > > You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category. Do I taste something in Shiner that tastes like corn on the cob or cornbread or grits or cornmeal? No. Do I taste another sweet, vaguely grainy flavor that I think Joel (and you, evidently) thinks is corn? Yes. > > www.lewbryson.com > > Heh! I LOVE it! So does my Mom. > How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well. Pretty good, actually. 2004 is shaping up to have been my best year ever for writing income, by a strong margin, and my marriage and family are great. How's by you? -- Lew Bryson www.LewBryson.com Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both available at <www.amazon.com> The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it, or respond to it. Spam away. |
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