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| Beer (rec.drink.beer) Discussing various aspects of that fine beverage referred to as beer. Including interesting beers and beer styles, opinions on tastes and ingredients, reviews of brewpubs and breweries & suggestions about where to shop. |
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Someday...
Hopefully soon. My lame state of Indiana will abolish the law that
forbids people to buy alcohol on Sundays. You can go to church (yuck!), you can go to the bar and drink, but you can't buy a case of beer from the gocery store. It's silly, bordering on obscene. Guess what happens if, say, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday? That's right, you gotta buy your beer on Saturday. You gotta plan ahead like, nearly 24 hours. I feel oppressed. That, and I'm out of beer. -Homer |
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I remember that. Ohio has some funny laws, too. There are dry townships
inside wet counties! "Homer Simpson" > wrote in message nk.net... > Hopefully soon. My lame state of Indiana will abolish the law that > forbids people to buy alcohol on Sundays. > > You can go to church (yuck!), you can go to the bar and drink, but you > can't buy a case of beer from the gocery store. > > It's silly, bordering on obscene. > > Guess what happens if, say, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday? That's > right, you gotta buy your beer on Saturday. You gotta plan ahead like, > nearly 24 hours. > > I feel oppressed. > > That, and I'm out of beer. > > -Homer |
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That doesn't border on obscene it is completely obscene and
unconstitutional. If someone doesn't want to sell you something on sunday (or any day) that is their right but to force them to decline to sell you something is unconstitutional. The government interferes way too much in our lives. VOTE LIBERTARIAN! I don't mean to rant but it's not like it's a funny store policy, that would be something to laugh at, it is a LAW, and that is a different story, that IS oppresive. On the upside I just finished a bridgeport ipa and it was awesome, I love their Ebenezer Ale but thats only available like 3 months out of the year. Worth the wait though. |
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If they didn't learn from Prohibition...
> wrote in message oups.com... > That doesn't border on obscene it is completely obscene and > unconstitutional. If someone doesn't want to sell you something on > sunday (or any day) that is their right but to force them to decline to > sell you something is unconstitutional. The government interferes way > too much in our lives. VOTE LIBERTARIAN! > > I don't mean to rant but it's not like it's a funny store policy, that > would be something to laugh at, it is a LAW, and that is a different > story, that IS oppresive. > > On the upside I just finished a bridgeport ipa and it was awesome, I > love their Ebenezer Ale but thats only available like 3 months out of > the year. Worth the wait though. > |
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> wrote in message
oups.com... > That doesn't border on obscene it is completely obscene and > unconstitutional. If someone doesn't want to sell you something on > sunday (or any day) that is their right but to force them to decline to > sell you something is unconstitutional. Sorry, it's not. No matter how stupid laws prohibiting Sunday sales are (which is pretty stupid, if you ask me), they are most certainly not unconstitutional. A key clause of the 21st amendment gives states regulatory powers over alcohol sales. Subsequent cases before the Supreme Court in the 1930s established that the Commerce Clause largely does not apply with regards to alcohol sales because of the second clause of the amendment. Recent court cases have rolled back that broad latitutde slightly, but since the 21st Amendment only technically covers the transport and import of alcohol into each of the states, states are still left with broad discretion on how to regulate that alcohol once it's in the state. After all, once it's in the state, it's no longer a matter of interstate commerce, and would no longer be under the jurisdiction of the federal government. > I don't mean to rant but it's not like it's a funny store policy, that > would be something to laugh at, it is a LAW, and that is a different > story, that IS oppresive. Please. I find no Sunday sales to be stupid and annoying too, but that hardly qualifies as oppression. Oppression is being denied your voting rights, your right to free speech, being harassed or jailed for speaking out against the government. Oppression may even be banning alcohol sales altogether. But it's not having to think ahead and buying your booze on Saturday or going to the pub or restaurant on Sunday to get a drink. > On the upside I just finished a bridgeport ipa and it was awesome, I > love their Ebenezer Ale but thats only available like 3 months out of > the year. Worth the wait though. Isn't that oppressive? Shouldn't Bridgeport be required not to force you to have to plan to buy your favorite beer only during certain months of the year? (Yes, that was sarcasm, just for the record.) -Steve |
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"Homer Simpson" > wrote in message
ink.net... > On the plus side, a bill introducing daylight savings time to the state of > Indiana passed the State House and looks poised to become a law. Soon my > home state will enter the 1950's! What an exciting time! Shit, they finally passed that? That was one of the many, many things I hated about living in Indiana. And I never thought I'd see the day where they'd cave. Incidentally, not being able to buy beer on Sundays wasn't on that list. Sure, I prefer living someplace where that is possible, but it's hardly like the apocalypse is nigh because of that law. -Steve |
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Well if it is not unconstitutional (I still think it is) then it most
certianly is against our Bill of Rights. If my rights are taken from me by force it IS most definitely oppresion, it is no less a crime just because you think it's only a minor nusiance. Again, it would be "stupid" and "annoying" if we had the choice not to abide by the rule, if we could shop at another store for example, but we don't have that choice. For such a rule to be enforced on us against our wills IS oppresive. If I were a store owner and decided to break that rule (because neither my customer nor I want to abide by it and we are both adults and can decide for ourselves what is best in our own lives) I would probably be fined, if I refused to pay that fine I would eventually be forced to abide by some punishment, like jail, at the point of a gun, if that is not oppresion I don't know what is. "How soon we forget history... government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington - (Who's favorite drink was porter) By the way, have you had Ebenezer ale? If you had to wait 9 months for it you'd think it was oppresive also? :-) |
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Homer Simpson wrote:
> Hopefully soon. My lame state of Indiana will abolish the law that > forbids people to buy alcohol on Sundays. > > You can go to church (yuck!), you can go to the bar and drink, but you > can't buy a case of beer from the gocery store. > > It's silly, bordering on obscene. > > Guess what happens if, say, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday? That's > right, you gotta buy your beer on Saturday. You gotta plan ahead like, > nearly 24 hours. > > I feel oppressed. > > That, and I'm out of beer. > > -Homer I feel ya. It's the same way in GA. What's funny is that I typically do my grocery shopping on Sunday and that's when all the sales (even on beer) go up. I always have wait an come back though. At least GA finally has allowed high-gravity beers to be sold legally. Hey, it's a step. -- Paul M. Hobson Georgia Institute of Technology http://www.underthecouch.org ..:you may want to fix my email address before you send anything:. |
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Homer Simpson wrote:
> Hopefully soon. My lame state of Indiana will abolish the law that > forbids people to buy alcohol on Sundays. > > You can go to church (yuck!), you can go to the bar and drink, but you > can't buy a case of beer from the gocery store. > > It's silly, bordering on obscene. > > Guess what happens if, say, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday? That's > right, you gotta buy your beer on Saturday. You gotta plan ahead like, > nearly 24 hours. > > I feel oppressed. > > That, and I'm out of beer. > > -Homer I feel ya. It's the same way in GA. What's funny is that I typically do my grocery shopping on Sunday and that's when all the sales (even on beer) go up. I always have wait an come back though. At least GA finally has allowed high-gravity beers to be sold legally. Hey, it's a step. -- Paul M. Hobson Georgia Institute of Technology http://www.underthecouch.org ..:you may want to fix my email address before you send anything:. |
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Paul Hobson wrote:
<snip> >> I feel oppressed. >> >> That, and I'm out of beer. >> >> -Homer > I feel ya. It's the same way in GA. What's funny is that I typically > do my grocery shopping on Sunday and that's when all the sales (even on > beer) go up. I always have wait an come back though. > > At least GA finally has allowed high-gravity beers to be sold legally. > Hey, it's a step. I think that's the part that bothers me the most. I have the most time to do grocery shopping on Sundays. Sundays are like my errand day, and I hate going to the grocery. It's like time wasted that you'll never get back. Going twice in the same week just adds fuel to the hatred. Also, towards the end of the day on Saturday they tend to slack on stocking the beer knowing that very soon they will have a slot of time in which it won't matter if they don't stock the beer aisle. Once I was camping in a dry county in Kentucky, and some locals overheard me and my friends complaining about the drive to get beer, and get back to the campsite. They directed us to a nearby bait shop where one could buy beer and alcohol (illegally) imported from across the county line. Funny, no? -HOmer |
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Paul Hobson wrote:
<snip> >> I feel oppressed. >> >> That, and I'm out of beer. >> >> -Homer > I feel ya. It's the same way in GA. What's funny is that I typically > do my grocery shopping on Sunday and that's when all the sales (even on > beer) go up. I always have wait an come back though. > > At least GA finally has allowed high-gravity beers to be sold legally. > Hey, it's a step. I think that's the part that bothers me the most. I have the most time to do grocery shopping on Sundays. Sundays are like my errand day, and I hate going to the grocery. It's like time wasted that you'll never get back. Going twice in the same week just adds fuel to the hatred. Also, towards the end of the day on Saturday they tend to slack on stocking the beer knowing that very soon they will have a slot of time in which it won't matter if they don't stock the beer aisle. Once I was camping in a dry county in Kentucky, and some locals overheard me and my friends complaining about the drive to get beer, and get back to the campsite. They directed us to a nearby bait shop where one could buy beer and alcohol (illegally) imported from across the county line. Funny, no? -HOmer |
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Homer Simpson wrote: > Hopefully soon. My lame state of Indiana will abolish the law that > forbids people to buy alcohol on Sundays. > > You can go to church (yuck!), you can go to the bar and drink, but you > can't buy a case of beer from the gocery store. > > It's silly, bordering on obscene. > > Guess what happens if, say, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday? That's > right, you gotta buy your beer on Saturday. You gotta plan ahead like, > nearly 24 hours. > > I feel oppressed. > > That, and I'm out of beer. Man, if being out of beer isn't bad enough, the 4th of July isn't for another three months. You could maybe, stock up? I can identify with being out of what I'd like to drink at some time, but being out of beer? That is, as you said, "silly, bordering on obscene." -- -bill davidsen ) "The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the last possible moment - but no longer" -me Beer blog: http://www.tmr.com/~davidsen/beer |
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> wrote in message
ups.com... > Well if it is not unconstitutional (I still think it is) then it most > certianly is against our Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is part of the constitution. > If my rights are taken from > me by force it IS most definitely oppresion, it is no less a crime just > because you think it's only a minor nusiance. By force? Is the National Guard out preventing you from buying? You're right, nuisance level does not make something legal or illegal. Actual laws and court precedents do that. And the Supreme Court has ruled on more than one occasion that your interpretation of no-Sunday-sales laws as unconstitutional is not valid. Read up: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/c...n/amendment21/ > > Again, it would be "stupid" and "annoying" if we had the choice not to > abide by the rule, if we could shop at another store for example, but > we don't have that choice. For such a rule to be enforced on us > against our wills IS oppresive. Whatever. There are lots of laws that get enforced against my will. That is not oppression. That is part of the cost of living in a democracy. Just because I don't like my tax money going to the Pentagon or the CIA does not mean I'm being oppressed in having it done. > If I were a store owner and decided to > break that rule (because neither my customer nor I want to abide by it > and we are both adults and can decide for ourselves what is best in our > own lives) I would probably be fined, if I refused to pay that fine I > would eventually be forced to abide by some punishment, like jail, at > the point of a gun, if that is not oppresion I don't know what is. It's called law. Seriously, you need to get out more if you think fines and jail time for breaking legitimate laws that have been upheld by an independent judiciary is oppression. Unless you're an anarchist. In which case I'll buy you're argument. But there's no way to have the rule of law without enforcing those laws. You want oppression? Go look up Stalin. > By the way, have you had Ebenezer ale? If you had to wait 9 months for > it you'd think it was oppresive also? :-) Haven't had that one. BridgePort seems to send only the IPA down to my hood. -Steve |
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Steve Jackson wrote:
> "Homer Simpson" > wrote in message > ink.net... > >>On the plus side, a bill introducing daylight savings time to the state of >>Indiana passed the State House and looks poised to become a law. Soon my >>home state will enter the 1950's! What an exciting time! > Shit, they finally passed that? That was one of the many, many things I > hated about living in Indiana. And I never thought I'd see the day where > they'd cave. They are working on it. (Again) The bill apparently needs tweaking. And to be signed into law, then repealed. Repeat. Give it 10 or 12 years. I'll just keep my clock where it is for now. -H. |
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Steve Jackson wrote:
> "Homer Simpson" > wrote in message > ink.net... > >>On the plus side, a bill introducing daylight savings time to the state of >>Indiana passed the State House and looks poised to become a law. Soon my >>home state will enter the 1950's! What an exciting time! > Shit, they finally passed that? That was one of the many, many things I > hated about living in Indiana. And I never thought I'd see the day where > they'd cave. They are working on it. (Again) The bill apparently needs tweaking. And to be signed into law, then repealed. Repeat. Give it 10 or 12 years. I'll just keep my clock where it is for now. -H. |
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"dgs" > wrote in message
... > wrote: > >> Well if it is not unconstitutional (I still think it is) > > Nope. It isn't. 21st Amendment, second clause: > > "The transportation or importation into any state, territory, or > possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of > intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby > prohibited." > > This clause gives the individual states, territories, and U.S. > possessions the right to regulate the sale of alcohol beverages as > they see fit. So, you still get states that forbid Sunday retail > sales. Or, like where I live, the state forbids sales between 2AM > and 6AM every day, and also controls hard liquor stores via a network > of state-owned shops and licensed "agencies." Again, nothing > unconstitutional about it, no matter what you think. > > You actually have read the U.S. Constitution and know what the > amendments say, right? Yeah, yeah, but...seems like Sunday no-sale laws, which are definitely based on Christian-derived "day of rest" ideas, would violate the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Or doe the 1st Amendment not cover the states? Can a state then establish a state religion? It would appear that they are, if they cause businesses to close on a day for reasons obviously having to do with religion, but that hardly seems to jive with the 1st Amendment. I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar; what's the story here? And if the states are NOT allowed to establish religion... What wins, 1st Amendment, or 21st? -- Lew Bryson "If developers intentionally built communities without local gathering places and good sidewalks leading to them from every home, and did so for the purpose of inhibiting the political processes of the society, we would call it treason. Is the result any less negative without the intent?" -- Ray Oldenburg, "The Great Good Place" www.lewbryson.com Author of "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., available at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...272174-3121415 |
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dgs and steve jackson,
no need to throw childish insults my way, i was only making the simplest of points, that consenting adults should be able to make any transaction between them without government interference. no one can tell us when and how to drink, buy, sell or make our delicious beer (so long as were not selling some bath-tub brew from the prohibition era that'll make ya blind) that is all libertarianism is about and that is exactly what our founding fathers intended. everyone can agree with that right? so why all the hostility? peace and love my friends! |
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"Lew Bryson" > wrote in message
.. . > Yeah, yeah, but...seems like Sunday no-sale laws, which are definitely > based on Christian-derived "day of rest" ideas, would violate the 1st > Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of > religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Or doe the 1st > Amendment not cover the states? It does, thanks to the 16th amendment, which specifies that citizens are citizens both of their states and of the United States, and therefore individual states may not make laws that infringes upon the rights of US citizens accorded in the Constitution. > Can a state then establish a state religion? It would appear that they > are, if they cause businesses to close on a day for reasons obviously > having to do with religion, but that hardly seems to jive with the 1st > Amendment. That's the billion-dollar question. I'm not familiar enough with the history of blue laws to know when they've been adjudicated and what the judgements have tended to be. But the fact is that blue laws still exist and there is no existing precedent that has said they can't exist. Many states still bar Sunday car sales, for instance, and until literally a few years ago, North Dakota didn't allow Sunday retail sales of any sort. There are counties in New Jersey that do the same. It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone tried to fight against that, but it doesn't appear that there's any momentum for that lately. Hell, in a lot of cases, the businesses themselves are the strongest supporters of the blue laws. > And if the states are NOT allowed to establish religion... What wins, 1st > Amendment, or 21st? Good question. I don't know what the governing principle is when two clauses of the constitution appear to contradict each other. I suppose the practical answer is that whatever the Supreme Court says wins, wins. -Steve |
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> wrote in message
ups.com... > dgs and steve jackson, > > no need to throw childish insults my way, Bruce, please point out where I insulted you, adultish, childish, or otherwise. I disagree with your point and reasoning. I haven't made any comments about you personally at all. > i was only making the > simplest of points, that consenting adults should be able to make any > transaction between them without government interference. And I was simply disagreeing with that. I should not be able to sell you anthrax without government interference, for instance. And I happen to agree with you (how many times do I need to repeat this) that Sunday sales prohibitions are stupid. But you claimed they were unconstitutional, and I pointed out that the constitution and the Supreme Court disagree with you. > no one can > tell us when and how to drink, buy, sell or make our delicious beer (so > long as were not selling some bath-tub brew from the prohibition era > that'll make ya blind) Why should that be any different? What is the dividing line between acceptable regulation and unacceptable? If "no one can tell us," then why can they tell us not to make stuff that's going to blind the buyer. Caveat emptor. > that is all libertarianism is about and that is > exactly what our founding fathers intended. everyone can agree with > that right? No, we can't. Considering how constitutional scholars and members of the Supreme Court can't agree on what the founding fathers intended, I don't think we can say that the framers were libertarians at heart. Some of them, in fact, were very much not. > so why all the hostility? Disagreement and discussion are not hostility. -Steve |
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"i need to get out more" that is clearly not addresing the issues we
are discussing and is directed at me personally and is inteded as an insult, don't feign ignorance. please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous post. |
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> wrote:
>"i need to get out more" that is clearly not addresing the issues we >are discussing and is directed at me personally and is inteded as an >insult, don't feign ignorance. You really need to get out more. >please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can >figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular >post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous >post. GARNA. -- Joel Plutchak "So you would say the beheadings are excessive but not the dismemberment?" - from a discussion of the movie "Sin City" |
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> wrote:
>"i need to get out more" that is clearly not addresing the issues we >are discussing and is directed at me personally and is inteded as an >insult, don't feign ignorance. You really need to get out more. >please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can >figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular >post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous >post. GARNA. -- Joel Plutchak "So you would say the beheadings are excessive but not the dismemberment?" - from a discussion of the movie "Sin City" |
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"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message news:4IF8e.64988$B12.61146@trnddc09... > "Homer Simpson" > wrote in message > ink.net... > > > On the plus side, a bill introducing daylight savings time to the state of > > Indiana passed the State House and looks poised to become a law. Soon my > > home state will enter the 1950's! What an exciting time! > > Shit, they finally passed that? That was one of the many, many things I > hated about living in Indiana. And I never thought I'd see the day where > they'd cave. I'd prefer having the same time all year, actually... > Incidentally, not being able to buy beer on Sundays wasn't on that list. > Sure, I prefer living someplace where that is possible, but it's hardly like > the apocalypse is nigh because of that law. I'd like to buy beer at grocery stores too, but that's not happening here in BC. Fortunately, beer can be bought in cold beer and wine stores and in privatised liquor stores, but the government liquor stores are closed on Sundays, and only a select few of them carry my brand of beer while no one else does. I stock up on Tuesdays or Wednesdays for the week... -'dreas |
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> wrote in message
ups.com... > "i need to get out more" that is clearly not addresing the issues we > are discussing and is directed at me personally and is inteded as an > insult, don't feign ignorance. Don't take it so literally. I have no idea how often you go out. But my opinion is that your experience is limited if you think the things you cited are oppression, when compared to what true impression is like. Let's just say that if someone said the exact same line to me, I would regard it as neither insult nor personal. > > please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can > figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular > post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous > post. It all depends on what newsreader you're using. They all operate differently. More detail is needed to give you suggestions. -STeve |
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Steve Jackson wrote:
>>please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can >>figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular >>post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous >>post. > > It all depends on what newsreader you're using. They all operate > differently. More detail is needed to give you suggestions. People posting through Google Groups on the web seem to have this problem a lot. Tom W |
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Tom Wolper wrote:
> Steve Jackson wrote: > > >>please tell me how i can quote the previous post. so far all i can > >>figure to do is hit the reply option at the bottom of any particular > >>post, but it only gives me a blank space and doesn't show the previous > >>post. > > > > It all depends on what newsreader you're using. They all operate > > differently. More detail is needed to give you suggestions. > > People posting through Google Groups on the web seem to have this problem a lot. > > Tom W I am writing this from Google Groups, and got it to quote the previous post by clicking on "Show Options" (beside the name of previous poster), then "Reply". I believe that if you simply click on the "Reply" link at the bottom of the post, you get a blank compostion window with no material from the previous post. -- Bruce Weaver www.angelfire.com/wv/bwhomedir |
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> > "i need to get out more" that is clearly not addresing the issues we > > are discussing and is directed at me personally and is inteded as an > > insult, don't feign ignorance. > > Don't take it so literally. I have no idea how often you go out. But my > opinion is that your experience is limited if you think the things you cited > are oppression, when compared to what true impression is like. Let's just > say that if someone said the exact same line to me, I would regard it as > neither insult nor personal. > Steve Jackson, I still stand by what I said. It is most assuredly oppresion. The cruel and arbitrary use of power. Certianly there are levels or degrees of oppresion and things cold always be worse, nonetheless the word is still accurate. We could come up with a long list of alternatives if you wish but this is still a descriptive word for what we were talking about. Neither you nor anyone else has a right to FORCE me or anyone else to do anything UNLESS for a justifiable reason like to avoid force or fraud. ex. I can punch someone in the face (force) but only to DEFEND (prvent force) my self. Simple right? Thats libertarianism. You can't make a law (force) unless to prevent force or fraud. So in our above example, the law is made (force) not to prevent force or fraud but to FORCE us to live by someones else's notion of religios peity. I am not saying our live can't be effected by others arbitrarily but that our LAWS can not be effected arbitrarily by others. Just because it is common does not make it right. |
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Well this is goofy, i went to show options next to steve's name (i had
previously went to reply at the bottom of the post) and i typed and posted a message but it didnt get posted, mabey i sent it to steve only. steve if that happend u can copy/paste it on here. |
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> wrote in message
ups.com... > Well this is goofy, i went to show options next to steve's name (i had > previously went to reply at the bottom of the post) and i typed and > posted a message but it didnt get posted, mabey i sent it to steve > only. steve if that happend u can copy/paste it on here. If it's one you sent yesterday at about 9.45 pacific time, talking about definitions of oppression, you posted to the NG and not just me. -Steve |
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