2005 GABF Winners
 

Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

Frank Mancuso wrote:
> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

Congrats on St. Arnold's two new medals.

Cheers,

Steve

Frank Mancuso wrote:

> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

Love the Silver medal winner in Cat. 18 "European Style Pilsener"...

Frank Mancuso wrote:
> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
top-10.

Bill

> Speaking of the Sandlot. Aren't they part of the Coors organization?

Yes.

> Coors is Small Brewery of the Year?

No. The Sandlot is. I kinda treat them as separate entities, regardless of
the affiliation. If you've never been ... I highly recommend checking it
out. Incredible lagers/pils and smoked beers. Great guys too. This is
well-deserved, IMO ... though I could easily name dozens of other worthy
contenders. I'm sure we all could.

Respect Beer.

--
Todd Alström
http://BeerAdvocate.com
--
New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--

Sixty-nine separate categories? That's 207 winners. It seems
excessive.

Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

"Dav Vandenbroucke" > wrote in
message
> Sixty-nine separate categories? That's 207 winners. It seems
> excessive.

If that seems excessive, check out a copy of All About Beer and check out
the number of "winners" in each issue in BTI's competition.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

"Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
news:32T%e.7446
> Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
> spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
> top-10.

Ah, that would be blind tasters who didn't see what the label was on each
beer, poor *******s, and only had taste and smell to go on, instead of years
of finely honed opinion and prejudgment.

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
> news:32T%e.7446
>
>>Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
>>spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
>>top-10.
>
>
> Ah, that would be blind tasters who didn't see what the label was on each
> beer, poor *******s, and only had taste and smell to go on, instead of years
> of finely honed opinion and prejudgment.

Oh come on. I rather like a number of Sierra Nevada's brews, but I
know I am not alone in having found Bigfoot a rather unpleasant
experience in Barleywine. Although Heavyweight's Old Salty was not
represented, Weyerbacher and Old Dominion were (were Blithering Idiot,
Millennium or Insanity entered? They only list the breweries not the
particular beers) and I have had difficulty finishing previous years'
Bigfoots at all, to the point that I avoid them on principle, but this
years would have to be bloody spectacular to beat those two breweries,
and they didn't even place! Sorry I've "only" tried about a hundred
different brews this year (Bigfoot '05 not having been one of them) but
I have a hard time buying that as a gold medalist.

Bill

Dav Vandenbroucke wrote:
> Sixty-nine separate categories? That's 207 winners. It seems
> excessive.

Yeh, 200 would seem more about right to me. :-)

But it looks like there are only a handfull of
catagories that had less than 10 entries.

Obviously being a BJCP judge, I'd like
to see them using BJCP catagories and guidelines. :-)

Cheers,
John

<>
> Obviously being a BJCP judge, I'd like
> to see them using BJCP catagories and guidelines. :-)

Why? They're way too strict. Maybe OK for getting a grab on a truckload of
homebrews, but for a professional brewer, it's just a terrible clamp on his
sense of creativity, on his imagination. Who needs categories? I need
imaginative brewers. And new tastes.
Joris

"Joris Pattyn" > wrote in message news:L140f.141390
> Who needs categories? I need imaginative brewers. And new tastes.

Bravo!

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

"Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
news:Tt10f.7352
> Lew Bryson wrote:
>> "Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
>>>Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
>>>spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
>>>top-10.

>> Ah, that would be blind tasters who didn't see what the label was on each
>> beer, poor *******s, and only had taste and smell to go on, instead of
>> years of finely honed opinion and prejudgment.
>
> Oh come on. I rather like a number of Sierra Nevada's brews, but I know I
> am not alone in having found Bigfoot a rather unpleasant experience in
> Barleywine. Although Heavyweight's Old Salty was not represented,
> Weyerbacher and Old Dominion were (were Blithering Idiot, Millennium or
> Insanity entered? They only list the breweries not the particular beers)
> and I have had difficulty finishing previous years' Bigfoots at all, to
> the point that I avoid them on principle, but this years would have to be
> bloody spectacular to beat those two breweries, and they didn't even
> place! Sorry I've "only" tried about a hundred different brews this year
> (Bigfoot '05 not having been one of them) but I have a hard time buying
> that as a gold medalist.

Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come from
Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group, no
real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what I am
saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a steady
basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western beers
(and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern beers),
Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire history
of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
inevitable playing of the odds.

--
Lew Bryson

Their clothes are weird, their music sucks and they drink
malternatives. And now you tell me they probably don't think Sierra
Nevada is cool? This is what the passage of years does to you: It
makes everyone around you more stupid. -- Michael Stewart 6/24/02

www.lewbryson.com

Steve Moore > wrote:
wrote:
>
>> Love the Silver medal winner in Cat. 18 "European Style Pilsener"...
>
>One wonders why people at the Sandlot would dis beer judges. They've
>done quite well at the GABF over the years.

Maybe they think they should've gotten a Gold with
that beer. Heh.
--
Joel Plutchak

"I never let anything as tenuous as moral standards get in the way of
drinking beer." - Jon Binkley in rec.food.drink.beer

Lew Bryson > wrote:
: "Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
: news:Tt10f.7352
:> Lew Bryson wrote:
:>> "Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
:>>>Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
:>>>spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
:>>>top-10.
:
:>> Ah, that would be blind tasters who didn't see what the label was on each
:>> beer, poor *******s, and only had taste and smell to go on, instead of
:>> years of finely honed opinion and prejudgment.
:>
:> Oh come on. I rather like a number of Sierra Nevada's brews, but I know I
:> am not alone in having found Bigfoot a rather unpleasant experience in
:> Barleywine. Although Heavyweight's Old Salty was not represented,
:> Weyerbacher and Old Dominion were (were Blithering Idiot, Millennium or
:> Insanity entered? They only list the breweries not the particular beers)
:> and I have had difficulty finishing previous years' Bigfoots at all, to
:> the point that I avoid them on principle, but this years would have to be
:> bloody spectacular to beat those two breweries, and they didn't even
:> place! Sorry I've "only" tried about a hundred different brews this year
:> (Bigfoot '05 not having been one of them) but I have a hard time buying
:> that as a gold medalist.
:
: Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come from
: Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group, no
: real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
: puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
: guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what I am
: saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a steady
: basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western beers
: (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern beers),
: Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
: coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire history
: of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
: inevitable playing of the odds.
:

Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?

I had the opportunity to be a steward at the World Beer Cup -- got to be
in a room with a hell of a lot of bottles from a hell of a lot of
places. I saw and handled bottles from well known commercial breweries
with contents representing their well known flagship brews and said
bottles had handwritten labels on them. So, at a minimum, some special
care in handling was taken. I can only speculate as to whether the
contents were drawn from a "regular" batch on not.

Last October my vacation conincided with the release of the GABF winners
list. We made side trips to a lot of the winners sites and asked for he
specific beers that had won medals. If memory serves me correctly I
think maybe 30 to 40 percent of the beers we specifically asked for were
unavailable.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 14:42:31 +0000, Steve Moore wrote:

> Frank Mancuso wrote:
>> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
>> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

not true

Joris Pattyn wrote:
> <>
> > Obviously being a BJCP judge, I'd like
> > to see them using BJCP catagories and guidelines. :-)
>
> Why? They're way too strict. Maybe OK for getting a grab on a truckload of
> homebrews, but for a professional brewer, it's just a terrible clamp on his
> sense of creativity, on his imagination. Who needs categories? I need
> imaginative brewers. And new tastes.

>From what I've seen with commercial brewers, is that
the catagories aren't what is restricting their creativity or
imagenations.

Most commerical brewers don't take advantage of all the styles they
could:
they brew the same 3 or 4 beers all the time.

A commerical brewer is lucky if they get to brew a "seasonal" beer
once every 3 months.

I've sometimes thought of becoming a commercial brewer, but then
I've wondered if I'd be extremely bored with it.

As a homebrewer I can brew any kind of beer I want, any time I want.
I think I've brewed just about every style in the BJCP guidelines,
and rarely brew the same thing two years in a row.

And if you don't like being restricted to the classic catagories
(or are not capable of brewing something within the classic
guidelines),
you can always brew enter into the "Specialty #23" catagory,
which is no-holds-barred:
"This is explicitly a catch-all category for any beer that does not fit

into an existing style category. No beer is ever "out of style" in
this category, unless it fits elsewhere."

Cheers,
John

> Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come
> from Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest
> group, no real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic
> region) puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm
> not guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but
> what I am saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink
> on a steady basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking
> Western beers (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely
> Eastern beers), Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any
> surprising coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the
> entire history of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city.
> Conspiracy? No, inevitable playing of the odds.
>
*And in that neat summation, Lew has nicely quantified why I pay almost no
attention to the GABF. Ever.

For those that don't know, Lew also wrote an article for American Brewer
Magazine comparing beer festival entry conditions--for example,
festivals/competitions that pay for the beer they pour versus competitions
that make the brewers GIVE them the beer and then still charge them an entry
fee! Very interesting and illuminating article--Lew, maybe you have it
online or want to summarize it for us?

I find it notable that nearly all the "best" brewpubs and small breweries
I've sampled beer from--i.e. places with a chance to win big at GABF--can't
or won't enter the GABF. They either can't afford to (and if they did, what
chances would they have against, say, 102 other "American IPAs" or 54
hefeweizens?) or are really cheesed off at the entry conditions. As one
brewer told me, "I make beer to SELL, not give away at a party where they
charge for it!" Now, certainly, there are exceptions to that "rule" of
non-entry--Flossmoor, New Glarus, Dogfish, and Victory come to mind--but
still, much of the best beer in the nation (Selin's Grove Brewing in Pa.,
anyone?) will never get a GABF medal.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV
Baltimore columnist, Mid-Atlantic Brewing News--next issue on the presses
momentarily........

Bill Benzel wrote:

> Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
> Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
> that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
> medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?

Probably not, no. Nor would they need to, Bigfoot being one of the
most
consistently drinkable and delicious barleywines every year, your odd
opinion notwithstanding.

Jon Binkley > wrote:
:
: Bill Benzel wrote:
:
:> Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
:> Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
:> that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
:> medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?
:
: Probably not, no. Nor would they need to, Bigfoot being one of the
: most
: consistently drinkable and delicious barleywines every year, your odd
: opinion notwithstanding.
:

I didn't offer an opinion on Bigfoot, Jon. I have a nice stash back to
the late '90s and enjoy an annual vertical.

What I offered was a perception of a possible reality. If that reality
is unacceptable to you, fine, but the rest of my post, which you
conveniently snipped, states my personal experience for offeing it as a
possibility.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:16:37 -0700, david darr wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 14:42:31 +0000, Steve Moore wrote:
>
>> Frank Mancuso wrote:
>>> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
>>> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf
>
> not true

oops. I'm not sure how I wound up posting that... I was trying to forward
this to myself (using a new newsreader).

mea culpa from bad boy Dave

Bill Benzel wrote:

> :> Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
> :> Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
> :> that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
> :> medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?
> :
> : Probably not, no. Nor would they need to, Bigfoot being one of the
> : most
> : consistently drinkable and delicious barleywines every year, your odd
> : opinion notwithstanding.
> :
>
> I didn't offer an opinion on Bigfoot, Jon.

Oops, wrong Bill B! Sorry!

> What I offered was a perception of a possible reality. If that reality
> is unacceptable to you, fine, but the rest of my post, which you
> conveniently snipped, states my personal experience for offeing it as a
> possibility.

Oh, I know it's possible, I've had similar experiences with
medal-winning brewpubs. I just find it very unlikely
that the likes of Sierra Nevada would bother doing it just
for the GABF. More likely it was a fresh batch made for their
Chico pub. Bigfoot really does stand out when it's fresh,
and in a palate fatigue-plagued category like Barleywine,
it's all about standing out.

"Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:sDb0f.463
> Lew Bryson > wrote:
> : Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come
> from
> : Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group,
> no
> : real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
> : puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
> : guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what
> I am
> : saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a
> steady
> : basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western
> beers
> : (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern
> beers),
> : Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
> : coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire
> history
> : of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
> : inevitable playing of the odds.
> :
>
> Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
> Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
> that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
> medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?

Um...No. I doubt it. Truly. I recognize that I could be wrong. Anything
else?

> I had the opportunity to be a steward at the World Beer Cup -- got to be
> in a room with a hell of a lot of bottles from a hell of a lot of
> places. I saw and handled bottles from well known commercial breweries
> with contents representing their well known flagship brews and said
> bottles had handwritten labels on them. So, at a minimum, some special
> care in handling was taken. I can only speculate as to whether the
> contents were drawn from a "regular" batch on not.

Obviously, you already have. I'm not at all convinced by this. Old
hand-bottling habits die hard.

> Last October my vacation conincided with the release of the GABF winners
> list. We made side trips to a lot of the winners sites and asked for he
> specific beers that had won medals. If memory serves me correctly I
> think maybe 30 to 40 percent of the beers we specifically asked for were
> unavailable.

And again, I'm not sure I see what this proves. I've NEVER understood why
this "proves" that breweries make "special" batches just for GABF. All it
"proves" is that breweries DON'T simply send the beers they made in the past
three months to GABF. On the other hand, if a brewery DOES have a special
batch that turns out particularly well, they'd be fools not to put some
aside for GABF. I do know of a number of brewpubs who DO save GABF-winning
batches to serve around the holidays; is there a particular reason why they
should serve them right after GABF? It escapes me.

Just because you were disappointed with Bigfoot lately doesn't mean everyone
was. Taste is subjective, and variations in personal taste are common. No
news, I'm sure, but...

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
> news:Tt10f.7352
>
>>Lew Bryson wrote:
>>
>>>"Bill Bradley" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>Who the heck voted Bigfoot the best Barleywine? Unless this batch was
>>>>spectacularly better than previous years I don't know how they'd crack
>>>>top-10.
>
>
>>>Ah, that would be blind tasters who didn't see what the label was on each
>>>beer, poor *******s, and only had taste and smell to go on, instead of
>>>years of finely honed opinion and prejudgment.
>>
>>Oh come on. I rather like a number of Sierra Nevada's brews, but I know I
>>am not alone in having found Bigfoot a rather unpleasant experience in
>>Barleywine. Although Heavyweight's Old Salty was not represented,
>>Weyerbacher and Old Dominion were (were Blithering Idiot, Millennium or
>>Insanity entered? They only list the breweries not the particular beers)
>>and I have had difficulty finishing previous years' Bigfoots at all, to
>>the point that I avoid them on principle, but this years would have to be
>>bloody spectacular to beat those two breweries, and they didn't even
>>place! Sorry I've "only" tried about a hundred different brews this year
>>(Bigfoot '05 not having been one of them) but I have a hard time buying
>>that as a gold medalist.
>
>
> Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come from
> Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group, no
> real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
> puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
> guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what I am
> saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a steady
> basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western beers
> (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern beers),
> Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
> coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire history
> of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
> inevitable playing of the odds.

Does make sense. I was similarly unimpressed with Rogue's Old
Crustacean, but if that's what the Westernly folks like...

Bill

Lew Bryson wrote:
>
> Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come from
> Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group, no
> real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
> puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
> guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what I am
> saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a steady
> basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western beers
> (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern beers),
> Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
> coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire history
> of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
> inevitable playing of the odds.

There's also a home field advantage in that the beers are shipped
crosstown rather than cross country. That beer is perishable stuff.

Cheers,

Steve

"Alexander D. Mitchell IV" > wrote
in :

What have you done with Peter?

> *And in that neat summation, Lew has nicely quantified
> why I pay almost no attention to the GABF. Ever.

I agree. But you and I are not everybody. A medal is worth money
to a brewery.

> For those that don't know, Lew also wrote an article
> for American Brewer Magazine comparing beer festival
> entry conditions--for example, festivals/competitions
> that pay for the beer they pour versus competitions
> that make the brewers GIVE them the beer and then still
> charge them an entry fee! Very interesting and
> illuminating article--Lew, maybe you have it online or
> want to summarize it for us?

Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't realize there were
festivals/competitions that buy the beer they serve. I never,
EVER want to attend a festival/competition that buys the beer they
serve. Never. Is there a web site so I can identify this
bullshit in advance? I just don't want to waste my time.
Competition or not, I want to drink what a brewery wants me to
drink not what some asshole volunteer wants me to drink.

> versus competitions that make the
> brewers GIVE them the beer and then still charge them an
> entry fee!

I can organize a festival and FORCE brewers to send me kegs with a
check attached!? That's my idea of a perfect retirement...Do I
have to physically make them give me beer or do I have to kick a
door down at 0330 or...?

> I find it notable that nearly all the "best" brewpubs and
> small breweries I've sampled beer from--i.e. places with a
> chance to win big at GABF--can't or won't enter the GABF.

I'll bet it's "won't". And I don't blame 'em. At 2,335 beers and
109 judges, that's 21.something per judge. I've done that. It
starts to be unfun at about #14. Look up the scoresheet when you
get a chance.

Aroma: Like it? __yes __no
Flavor: Like it? __yes __no

etc.

Brains Mild...Why did those talentless *******s enter? Were they
forced to enter? Did they have to go to hospital? Are they happy
they entered and/or went to hospital? If the GBBF paid for them
to enter, then it's all-of-a-sudden difficult for me to care about
their BOS.

GABF:

http://www.beertown.org/events/gabf/...medalists.aspx

A-B/Miller/Pabst/et al are on that list, but so are Alameda,
Ballast Point, Bear Republic, BBC, Deschutes, Dog Fish Head,
Elysian, Firestone, Goose Island, Kona, Main Street, Oggi's, Pizza
Port, Russian River, Cetera...

Deschutes alone, I think, is the exception to your rule. Oh.
Wait. Did I say Deschutes? I meant Pizza Port. No, er, I meant
DFH. Um, I mean Elysian. No, I actually meant...

> (and if they did, what chances
> would they have against, say, 102 other "American IPAs" or
> 54 hefeweizens?)

Brew a Saison or a Munich Dunkel then. If a brewery decides to
focus on popular styles they are going to face real competition.

A brewery that brews a '"best"' AIPA might well get their butt
kicked in a field of "102" AIPAs. That's a Big Dog thing. Don't
want your ass kicked, don't leave the porch. Leastways that's how
I see it. Sell it to your local customers and don't whinge about
entry fees while you don't enter.

> or are really cheesed off at the entry
> conditions. As one brewer told me, "I make beer to SELL,
> not give away at a party where they charge for it!"

How is that different from a pub in general?

A gold/silver/bronze medal is advertizing. A cheap investment. A
keg of beer - what? $12 in ingredients and brewer's salary? $100
entry fee? $50 shipping? What's a 2"x3" ad go for in the
Celebrator? If you suck and your customers suck, then don't
enter. You must be fine serving band-aid beer, or
"hayferweezens" with lemon. If you know how to win a competition
- for Quaffir's sake - ENTER! If not, if you're a viable business
- shut the **** up.

The local Belmont Brewing Co. won gold at the LA County Fair this
year. Blackwell, the brewer, paid for the entry fee out of his
own pocket. Why ON EARTH did he do that? Personal satisfaction
would be my guess, but I'm also guessing that it helps the pub and
therefore helps him down the line should things go that way. I
fail to see how this hurts anyone and I fail to see how a viable
(?) business can't play this game.

Won't - fine. Can't - bullshit.



Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"I could win if I wanted to."

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
:

> And again, I'm not sure I see what this proves. I've NEVER
> understood why this "proves" that breweries make "special"
> batches just for GABF.

You mean that not everyone dials up by at least .010 for
competition? I feel so dirty.

> I do know of a number
> of brewpubs who DO save GABF-winning batches to serve
> around the holidays; is there a particular reason why they
> should serve them right after GABF? It escapes me

Advertizing, self-promotion, pretty shiny things at the host
station escape you? Selling their award-winning beer at the
venue itself..."escapes" you?

The hefeweizen "she gives great head" thing escapes me.

> Just because you were disappointed with Bigfoot lately
> doesn't mean everyone was. Taste is subjective,

I got scoresheets that say otherwise.



Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Head, please."

Here's some great thoughts on this year's GABF ... (by Andy Crouch)

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read.p...6627&id=567522

Respect Beer.

--
Todd Alström
http://BeerAdvocate.com
--
New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--

"Todd @ BeerAdvocate" > wrote in
news:BDt0f.14989$794.12792@trndny01:

> http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read.p...6627&id=567522

"Not sure what breweries enterred, or what beers were enterred,
but I do know who won."

Good source of information, that.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Todd @ BeerAdvocate" > wrote in
news:BDt0f.14989$794.12792@trndny01:

> Respect Beer.

"Respect" beer? That is just ****ing stupid. Respect?
Beer? Beer is a beverage - nothing more. I might as well
respect the blend of gasoline in my bit o' paradise... MBHB
or...what?

Oh, I RESPECT that.

Er, no I don't. It's good for LA, but *respect*...?

I respect a color I like on a car. No, wait...I just like
that color.

I respect people and their actions. You Jason/Todd are balls
of shit. You're both self-promotional assholes. You suck.
You're selling something and yet you pretend you are
providing a service...

Jason...Todd - **** off.

PLEASE.

Really.

Please **** right the **** off.

Anyone here who RESPECTS beer - raise your hand. I *respect*
A. Scott Crossfield. Or Bob Cardenas. Or George "Wheaties"
Welch. I don't respect beer. I like it. But I don't
respect it.

"Respect." That's a big word.


Scottie Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

Ah ... playing the tough guy from behind your keyboard. Man what an ass you
just made of yourself.

I'll be in Long Beach in December. Let's meet up for a pint!

Respect Beer.

--
Todd Alström
http://BeerAdvocate.com
--
New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--

"Todd @ BeerAdvocate" > wrote in
news:QnA0f.24$gL5.13@trndny08:

> Ah ... playing the tough guy from behind your keyboard.

Yes.

> Man what an ass you just made of yourself.

You've not done the same?

> I'll be in Long Beach in December. Let's meet up for a
> pint!

Yes, let's meet up. You have one of the best beer sites on
the web, but I don't like the 'respect' thing. We can talk
about this in person.

Let's meet up, no sarcasm or other BS intended. I don't make
these stupid bullshit bully noises just on rfdb.

I'll give you a shot: The belly, not the head (I'm
soooooooooo pretty), please. Hell, I work within 10
minutes' street of LAX - I'll pick you up.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA









>
> Respect Beer.
>
> --
> Todd Alström
> http://BeerAdvocate.com
> --
> New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
> http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
> --
>
>

> You've not done the same?

Nope. I'm just posting about the GABF. My pointless trollin' on rfdb days
have been over for years.

> Yes, let's meet up. You have one of the best beer sites on
> the web, but I don't like the 'respect' thing. We can talk
> about this in person.

---------------------------------------------------
re·spect (ri-spekt')
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
---------------------------------------------------

Take your pick. All are more than appropriate usages. I "respect beer" ...
not asking you to, but I'd love to hear your constructive thoughts vs. this
ass-vomit-man-period talk that was just on my screen a moment ago.

> Let's meet up, no sarcasm or other BS intended. I don't make
> these stupid bullshit bully noises just on rfdb.

Cool. Long Beach or the Pizza Port Strong Ale Fest (that's where I'm
headed).

> I'll give you a shot: The belly, not the head (I'm
> soooooooooo pretty), please.

I can almost guarantee that you won't want me to do this, so how about a
pint of beer instead? (take the pint, your head will thank you)

So anyway ... back to the GABF thread ... and see you in Dec.

Respect Beer.

--
Todd Alström
http://BeerAdvocate.com
--
New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
>> I do know of a number
>> of brewpubs who DO save GABF-winning batches to serve
>> around the holidays; is there a particular reason why they
>> should serve them right after GABF? It escapes me
>
> Advertizing, self-promotion, pretty shiny things at the host
> station escape you? Selling their award-winning beer at the
> venue itself..."escapes" you?

Yeah, it does, when you have to shuffle your serving order and you've
already got something planned. Screw it, hang the medals up, smile a lot,
and promise them a big event in two months (when you had it planned for
anyway). But it doesn't PROVE that the beer doesn't exist except for the
GABF; which is my point.

> The hefeweizen "she gives great head" thing escapes me.

I'm not surprised, with you sitting in that squid kettle. It won't escape me
when I cash the check in about two weeks.

>> Just because you were disappointed with Bigfoot lately
>> doesn't mean everyone was. Taste is subjective,
>
> I got scoresheets that say otherwise.

Number Boy. Drink your scoresheets.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson > wrote:
: "Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:sDb0f.463
:> Lew Bryson > wrote:
:> : Bill, take a look at who judges these beers. Over half the judges come
:> from
:> : Colorado and west (Mountain state judges are always the biggest group,
:> no
:> : real surprise). The East Coast (New England and the mid-Atlantic region)
:> : puts up about 15% of the judges (really, I have the numbers, I'm not
:> : guessing). I'm NOT saying that the judges are in a conspiracy, but what
:> I am
:> : saying is that people gravitate towards liking what they drink on a
:> steady
:> : basis. Western site for the festival, Western judges drinking Western
:> beers
:> : (and they do, much more so than we in the East drink solely Eastern
:> beers),
:> : Western beers win medals. I do not think that it's any surprising
:> : coincidence that Denver and Boulder together have --over the entire
:> history
:> : of the GABF -- won more medals than any other city. Conspiracy? No,
:> : inevitable playing of the odds.
:> :
:>
:> Of course there's no possibility that SN brewed up a small batch of
:> Bigfoot just to enter at GABF, is there? Only the little brewpubs do
:> that -- you know, the guys who never have the beer that won their gold
:> medal when you seek them out. SN wouldn't do that now, would they?
:
: Um...No. I doubt it. Truly. I recognize that I could be wrong. Anything
: else?
:
:> I had the opportunity to be a steward at the World Beer Cup -- got to be
:> in a room with a hell of a lot of bottles from a hell of a lot of
:> places. I saw and handled bottles from well known commercial breweries
:> with contents representing their well known flagship brews and said
:> bottles had handwritten labels on them. So, at a minimum, some special
:> care in handling was taken. I can only speculate as to whether the
:> contents were drawn from a "regular" batch on not.
:
: Obviously, you already have. I'm not at all convinced by this. Old
: hand-bottling habits die hard.
:
:> Last October my vacation conincided with the release of the GABF winners
:> list. We made side trips to a lot of the winners sites and asked for he
:> specific beers that had won medals. If memory serves me correctly I
:> think maybe 30 to 40 percent of the beers we specifically asked for were
:> unavailable.
:
: And again, I'm not sure I see what this proves. I've NEVER understood why
: this "proves" that breweries make "special" batches just for GABF. All it
: "proves" is that breweries DON'T simply send the beers they made in the past
: three months to GABF. On the other hand, if a brewery DOES have a special
: batch that turns out particularly well, they'd be fools not to put some
: aside for GABF. I do know of a number of brewpubs who DO save GABF-winning
: batches to serve around the holidays; is there a particular reason why they
: should serve them right after GABF? It escapes me.
:
: Just because you were disappointed with Bigfoot lately doesn't mean everyone
: was. Taste is subjective, and variations in personal taste are common. No
: news, I'm sure, but...
:

Lew,

First off, I'm just stating facts as I see 'em, not trying to "prove" a
damn thing. I also am not passing judgement on the behavior that I see
as a possibility. Hell, I'm not above doing the same thing in the same
situation as long as it's not against the rules. And I don't know what
the rules are as far as the GABF goes.

Second, I never said a damn thing about being disappointed in Bigfoot
lately -- If I did, point me to the post. I like Bigfoot and though I
don't nab cases any more like I did when I lived in PA that's because
a.) there are a lot more good barleywines available than there were 10
years ago and b.) I no longer live in a place where a case is the
minimum size I can buy. We get bottles and draft Bigfoot here and I buy
a sixpack or two every year when it shows up and sample the draft as
well. I have also had cask conditioned Bigfoot at Toronado and that was
definitely the antithesis of shite.



--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

So anyone heard off/know/seen/tried this stuff?:
Catagory: 6 Herb and Spice Beer -57 Entries
Gold: Temptation Bock, Miller Brewing Co., Milwaukee, WI

What the heck is that?

John

Frank Mancuso wrote:
> Just in case you aren't there, and wanted to know who won medals:
> http://www.beertown.com/events/gabf/pdf/winners_05.pdf

You are like school on Sunday ... no class. Sad ...

--
Jason Alstrom
--
BeerAdvocate.com New England Beer Fest - October 29th 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--
"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
...
> "Todd @ BeerAdvocate" > wrote in
> news:BDt0f.14989$794.12792@trndny01:
>
>> Respect Beer.
>
> "Respect" beer? That is just ****ing stupid. Respect?
> Beer? Beer is a beverage - nothing more. I might as well
> respect the blend of gasoline in my bit o' paradise... MBHB
> or...what?
>
> Oh, I RESPECT that.
>
> Er, no I don't. It's good for LA, but *respect*...?
>
> I respect a color I like on a car. No, wait...I just like
> that color.
>
> I respect people and their actions. You Jason/Todd are balls
> of shit. You're both self-promotional assholes. You suck.
> You're selling something and yet you pretend you are
> providing a service...
>
> Jason...Todd - **** off.
>
> PLEASE.
>
> Really.
>
> Please **** right the **** off.
>
> Anyone here who RESPECTS beer - raise your hand. I *respect*
> A. Scott Crossfield. Or Bob Cardenas. Or George "Wheaties"
> Welch. I don't respect beer. I like it. But I don't
> respect it.
>
> "Respect." That's a big word.
>
>
> Scottie Kaczorowski
> Long Beach, CA

Todd @ BeerAdvocate wrote:
>
> I can almost guarantee that you won't want me to do this, so how about a
> pint of beer instead? (take the pint, your head will thank you)

Why not? Todd, sorry to burst your bubble here, but you and Jason are
hardly anything to fear(anyone can shave their head and grow a goatee
Todd). What? Do you fancy yourself "goons"? Are you saying, that Scott
really does not want this to come to blows, because you might kick his
ass, or you are just saying this is something petty to argue over? I
hope for YOUR sake the latter. If not? It makes you a baboon. I saw you
and your bro a few years back at a beer fest in RI, and you and Jason
are hardly intimidating. Some might say the only thing "tough" about
you two, is you are tough to look at. BeerAdvocate has come a LONG way
since it was "two fun loving homebrewing brothers" with a little
website, but keep in mind, you still play to a very selective audience,
and some of us who have been around for a while? We really aren't too
impressed with your little website, no matter how popular it has
gotten.


> Respect Beer.

No Todd, you DO NOT have to "respect" beer. This is a foolish notion. I
share your passion, but NO, beer does not have to be respected, anymore
than any other product. RESPECT Mustard! RESPECT Twinkies! As Scott
says, people make choices in this world Todd, and some people, don't
chose beer, and will NEVER respect it, no matter how much you and I do.
Try to wrap your head around that, and can the fako, tough guy, macho
bravado bullshit. Scott might drop you quicker than shit though a
goose.

Ah ... another tough guy trying to mark his territory and look cool in front
a group of anonymous people who don't care. So cute. Go pee somewhere else
.... I already hit this spot a few times today.

Respect Beer.

--
Todd Alström
http://BeerAdvocate.com
--
New England Beer Fest - October 29, 2005
http://beeradvocate.com/fests/
--