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Uncle wrote:
> I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell > of a time. > For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the > ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be the > problem, but did another batch with it at about body temperature and > it still happened. > I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run > about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: > > make the chocolate mix > > freeze a pan. > scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. > put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. > dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in > put what makes it through back into the freezer. > go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and > again, sometimes it won't stick. > > I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I start > having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time the > surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It occurs > to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. Anyone > done this before that can point me to the problem? It strikes me that ice cream has probably adulterated your chocolate after the first two....Have you considered making chocolate shells, then filling them with ice cream, then filling in the backs with chocolate? I would think it would work better. -- Janet Dear Artemesia! Poetry's a Sna/Bedlam has many Mansions:have a ca/ Your Muse diverts you, makes the Reader sad:/ You think your self inspir'd; He thinks you mad. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/04 |
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at Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:37:50 GMT in <2vwTc.227$3O3.138
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Uncle wrote : >I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell >of a time. >For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the >ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be the >problem, but did another batch with it at about body temperature and >it still happened. >I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run >about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: > >make the chocolate mix > >freeze a pan. >scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. >put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. >dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in >put what makes it through back into the freezer. >go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and >again, sometimes it won't stick. > >I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I start >having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time the >surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It occurs >to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. The problem is related to the temper of the chocolate. Since you're using pure chocolate (not icky compound coating), it needs to be tempered, i.e. brought to proper recrystallisation temperature. From what you're describing, I think you're probably tempering it properly initially. But here's where the problems start. The basic issue is this : tempered chocolate cools out of dipping stage very quickly. Meanwhile, you're dipping something cold into the chocolate, which accelerates the cooling a great deal. So what's happening is that the chocolate is cooling out of temper, and partially recrystallising. The net result is that it doesn't uniformly and evenly cover the ice cream ball, rather, it sort of sits on the surface without actually covering. Meanwhile, the ice crystals (frost) aren't helping either. Chocolate is hydrophobic and as a result will not stick to ice crystals no matter what you do. So the ice crystals are "propping" up a series of plates of partially recrystallised chocolate on top of the center. So, in order to cure this, you need 2 things : a continuous-tempering machine (e.g. Revolation) that can maintain the chocolate at temper throughout the entire time you're dipping, and to keep each center in the freezer until the moment you're ready to dip. Yes, this means opening the freezer door many times, but you can't have any frost on the surface. One other approach you can use is the "enrobing" method : lay out a sheet of wax paper and get your centers on top of it, then pour the tempered chocolate over all the centers in a blanket. There's more chocolate waste here, and you have to cut the individual pieces out of the chocolate, but it will work. Of course you need to turn all the pieces over and coat the bottom after the top has solidified. Dipping frozen things in chocolate isn't easy, at least not if you're looking to produce more than a few pieces. You really have to have everything laid out, and, as I imply, you need specialised equipment. Hope this helps fix your problems. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
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at Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:37:50 GMT in <2vwTc.227$3O3.138
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Uncle wrote : >I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell >of a time. >For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the >ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be the >problem, but did another batch with it at about body temperature and >it still happened. >I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run >about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: > >make the chocolate mix > >freeze a pan. >scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. >put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. >dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in >put what makes it through back into the freezer. >go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and >again, sometimes it won't stick. > >I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I start >having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time the >surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It occurs >to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. The problem is related to the temper of the chocolate. Since you're using pure chocolate (not icky compound coating), it needs to be tempered, i.e. brought to proper recrystallisation temperature. From what you're describing, I think you're probably tempering it properly initially. But here's where the problems start. The basic issue is this : tempered chocolate cools out of dipping stage very quickly. Meanwhile, you're dipping something cold into the chocolate, which accelerates the cooling a great deal. So what's happening is that the chocolate is cooling out of temper, and partially recrystallising. The net result is that it doesn't uniformly and evenly cover the ice cream ball, rather, it sort of sits on the surface without actually covering. Meanwhile, the ice crystals (frost) aren't helping either. Chocolate is hydrophobic and as a result will not stick to ice crystals no matter what you do. So the ice crystals are "propping" up a series of plates of partially recrystallised chocolate on top of the center. So, in order to cure this, you need 2 things : a continuous-tempering machine (e.g. Revolation) that can maintain the chocolate at temper throughout the entire time you're dipping, and to keep each center in the freezer until the moment you're ready to dip. Yes, this means opening the freezer door many times, but you can't have any frost on the surface. One other approach you can use is the "enrobing" method : lay out a sheet of wax paper and get your centers on top of it, then pour the tempered chocolate over all the centers in a blanket. There's more chocolate waste here, and you have to cut the individual pieces out of the chocolate, but it will work. Of course you need to turn all the pieces over and coat the bottom after the top has solidified. Dipping frozen things in chocolate isn't easy, at least not if you're looking to produce more than a few pieces. You really have to have everything laid out, and, as I imply, you need specialised equipment. Hope this helps fix your problems. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
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at Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:15:20 GMT in
. net>, Uncle wrote : >On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:18:55 -0000 in >, (Alex Rast) graced the world with this >thought: > >>at Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:37:50 GMT in <2vwTc.227$3O3.138 >, Uncle wrote : >> >>>I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell >>>of a time. >>>For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the >>>ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be the >>>problem, but did another batch with it at about body temperature and >>>it still happened. >>>I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run >>>about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: >>> >>>make the chocolate mix >>> >>>freeze a pan. >>>scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. >>>put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. >>>dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in >>>put what makes it through back into the freezer. >>>go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and >>>again, sometimes it won't stick. >>> >>>I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I start >>>having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time the >>>surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It occurs >>>to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. >> >>The problem is related to the temper of the chocolate... >> >>The basic issue is this : tempered chocolate cools out of dipping stage >>very quickly... >> >>Meanwhile, the ice crystals (frost) aren't helping either. ... >> >>So, in order to cure this, you need 2 things : a continuous-tempering >>machine (e.g. Revolation) that can maintain the chocolate at temper >>throughout the entire time you're dipping... >> >>Dipping frozen things in chocolate isn't easy, at least not if you're >>looking to produce more than a few pieces. You really have to have >>everything laid out, and, as I imply, you need specialised equipment. >> >>Hope this helps fix your problems. > >Well, a tempering machine is pretty much not an option, however, I'm >leaning toward the ice crystals being the biggest problem. Unfortunately, it's probably the former problem (chocolate losing temper) that's the bigger contributor. It would be nice, of course, if the major issue were the least expensive to fix, but often the main problem is something for which there is no quick, cheap solution. There are things that simply require a certain investment in order to get good results. > I wish I >had a walk-in freezer to work in, it would make things a hell of a lot >easier. I've considered doing a pour-over, since you mention it, I'll >give that a shot too. If you don't have the $ or the access for a temperer, then enrobing is probably your best way to go. Another poster suggested pre-making shells and then filling them with ice cream. If you did this, you'd want your ice cream to be of soft-serve consistency in order that it fill the shell completely. Then you'd want it to chill and harden before capping the tops of the shells. This is no problem if you're making the ice cream yourself but if you're using store-bought, it would be extremely tricky at best. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
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at Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:15:20 GMT in
. net>, Uncle wrote : >On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:18:55 -0000 in >, (Alex Rast) graced the world with this >thought: > >>at Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:37:50 GMT in <2vwTc.227$3O3.138 >, Uncle wrote : >> >>>I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell >>>of a time. >>>For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the >>>ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be the >>>problem, but did another batch with it at about body temperature and >>>it still happened. >>>I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run >>>about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: >>> >>>make the chocolate mix >>> >>>freeze a pan. >>>scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. >>>put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. >>>dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in >>>put what makes it through back into the freezer. >>>go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and >>>again, sometimes it won't stick. >>> >>>I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I start >>>having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time the >>>surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It occurs >>>to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. >> >>The problem is related to the temper of the chocolate... >> >>The basic issue is this : tempered chocolate cools out of dipping stage >>very quickly... >> >>Meanwhile, the ice crystals (frost) aren't helping either. ... >> >>So, in order to cure this, you need 2 things : a continuous-tempering >>machine (e.g. Revolation) that can maintain the chocolate at temper >>throughout the entire time you're dipping... >> >>Dipping frozen things in chocolate isn't easy, at least not if you're >>looking to produce more than a few pieces. You really have to have >>everything laid out, and, as I imply, you need specialised equipment. >> >>Hope this helps fix your problems. > >Well, a tempering machine is pretty much not an option, however, I'm >leaning toward the ice crystals being the biggest problem. Unfortunately, it's probably the former problem (chocolate losing temper) that's the bigger contributor. It would be nice, of course, if the major issue were the least expensive to fix, but often the main problem is something for which there is no quick, cheap solution. There are things that simply require a certain investment in order to get good results. > I wish I >had a walk-in freezer to work in, it would make things a hell of a lot >easier. I've considered doing a pour-over, since you mention it, I'll >give that a shot too. If you don't have the $ or the access for a temperer, then enrobing is probably your best way to go. Another poster suggested pre-making shells and then filling them with ice cream. If you did this, you'd want your ice cream to be of soft-serve consistency in order that it fill the shell completely. Then you'd want it to chill and harden before capping the tops of the shells. This is no problem if you're making the ice cream yourself but if you're using store-bought, it would be extremely tricky at best. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
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Uncle wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 04:59:44 GMT in <4bXTc.3803$zO3.1211@trndny05>, > "Janet Puistonen" > graced the world with this > thought: > >> Uncle wrote: >>> I'm tryng to make a sort of bon-bon kind of thing, and having a hell >>> of a time. >>> For some reason, the chocolate has a difficult time sticking to the >>> ice cream ball. Is the chocolate too warm? I thought this might be >>> the problem, but did another batch with it at about body >>> temperature and >>> it still happened. >>> I'm using a mix of 4 parts chocolate to 1 part cocoa butter. I run >>> about a 50% success rate. Here's what I do: >>> >>> make the chocolate mix >>> >>> freeze a pan. >>> scoop the ice cream balls onto the frozen pan. >>> put it back in the freezer to stabilize it. >>> dip it in the warm chocolate... this is where the problem comes in >>> put what makes it through back into the freezer. >>> go for a second dip to cover the invariable holes and cracks... and >>> again, sometimes it won't stick. >>> >>> I also notice that it's usually the first few that work, then I >>> start having problems. This also <seems> to be just about the time >>> the >>> surface of the ice cream or bon bon is getting frost on it. It >>> occurs >>> to me that this frost could possibly be part of the problem. Anyone >>> done this before that can point me to the problem? >> It strikes me that ice cream has probably adulterated your chocolate >> after the first two....Have you considered making chocolate shells, >> then filling them with ice cream, then filling in the backs with >> chocolate? I would think it would work better. > > I can't even imagine how I would go about making the shells, let alone > fill them with ice cream. You may have something with the > adulteration, though, certain I'm losing ice cream into the > chocolate... If you are dipping ice cream into chocolate and not using something like a tempering machine or a heating pad to maintain temperature, the ice cream is knocking the chocolate out of temper almost immediately. In addition, it is melting into the chocolate and changing its composition. As to making shells, well, it would help if you owned a hemispherical mold....but you could attempt it with something along those lines. Foil muffin cases, cupcake tins, etc. (Do you know how to line a mold with chocolate? For something like a foil cup, you could brush it or spread it with your finger. With a real mold, fill it with tempered chocolate, tap on a counter and/or jiggle back and forth a few times to eliminate air bubbles, then flip it over and let the excess run back into the bowl. Set the mold upside down on something long to hold it off the surface a bit--I use a pair of chopsticks, one at each end--for a minute or until the chocolate begins to set, then using a bench scraper or long stright spatula or the like scrape off the excess in a few long strokes. When fully set, fill each cavity, leaving a little room at the top. It is important that the filling not protrude above the mold. When the filling is set, you can either pipe the backs on, or pour chocolate over the whole mold and scrape off the excess again.) Another option would be to construct shells using acetate. You could mark circles on a sheet, and fill them by carefully pouring some chocolate into each and spreading it. You could then use acetate strips to form the cylindrical part, and attach the two with a bit of melted chocolate, or, if you are dextrous, just fit the semi-set strips around the circles. (If you want to, the acetate also lends itself to attractive Jackson Pollock-like effects using ivory, milk, and dark chocolates.) You could then fill the set shells with softened ice cream, chill until fairly firm, and fill in the backs. You'll have an easier time if you are filling a mold, since it will support the shell and you'll be less likely to break it while filling. A lot depends on what size you want these things to be, and how many you are going to produce and for what purpose. You can acquire a hemispherical mold for no more than $50, I would think, and probably less. Have a look at the Chocolat Chocolat website for professional molds, or look at the gazillion candy-making sites for the much cheaper flexible plastic ones. Those you can get for a few dollars each. If not an actual hemisphere, there's probably some kind of soccer ball or golf ball or Easter egg mold you could use (depending on the size). It's a lot easier if you've got some basic equipment. -- Janet Dear Artemesia! Poetry's a Sna/Bedlam has many Mansions:have a ca/ Your Muse diverts you, makes the Reader sad:/ You think your self inspir'd; He thinks you mad. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/17/04 |
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Uncle wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:24:16 GMT in > >, Scott > > graced the world with this thought: > >> In article . net>, >> Uncle wrote: >> >>> I can't even imagine how I would go about making the shells, let >>> alone fill them with ice cream. You may have something with the >>> adulteration, though, certain I'm losing ice cream into the >>> chocolate... >> >> You can use very small, round balloons, dipping half into melted >> chocolate, then deflating the balloons when the chocolate is set >> (rather than popping the balloons to deflate, you can clamp the >> openings after inflating, then open the clamps to release). Fill >> each half with chocolate, refreeze the halves (the ice cream will >> need to be somewhat soft in order to fill the halves) and use melted >> chocolate to seal the two halves together. > > lol... yeah, I can, but I'm not about to. I'm trying to keep the > amount of time, material, and frustration to a minimum, along with the > cost of time, material, and danger from me killing someone while I'm > even dealing with this. Not to mention, I need to make about thirty a > day for the next four months. > Thanks for the thought, though. If you need to make thirty a day you need to go buy a professional multi-cavity mold. That is, if you want to do anything else from dawn to dusk! <G> -- Janet Dear Artemesia! Poetry's a Sna/Bedlam has many Mansions:have a ca/ Your Muse diverts you, makes the Reader sad:/ You think your self inspir'd; He thinks you mad. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/17/04 |
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