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Chocolate (rec.food.chocolate) all topics related to eating and making chocolate such as cooking techniques, recipes, history, folklore & source recommendations. |
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My wife and I are in the early stages of opening a retail location
that will feature quality chocolates and candy. Can anyone recommend some wholesalers and particular brands of chocolate that are of excellent quality and also value. I am in the SouthEast region and am concerned with chocolate melting during summer months, especially during shipping. How is the problem combatted? -Linus |
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![]() "Linus" > wrote in message ... > My wife and I are in the early stages of opening a retail location > that will feature quality chocolates and candy. > > Can anyone recommend some wholesalers and particular brands of > chocolate that are of excellent quality and also value. > > I am in the SouthEast region and am concerned with chocolate melting > during summer months, especially during shipping. How is the problem > combatted? > -Linus > I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers know something about the kinds of products they want to sell? Nevertheless, my two cents- Valrhona, Callebaut and Scharffen-Berger are all very good, and they make large bars. Scharffen-Berger and Michel Cluizel also make excellent chocolate. I would suggest that you come to the next annual Chocolate Show in New York (it's in November, and it has a website) so you can meet with some of the world's top chocolate makers and get some answers to your questions. |
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On 04-02-09 15:56:35, Tea wrote:
> I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers know > something about the kinds of products they want to sell? I don't think he was asking about brand recommendations, but about a retailer where he (as a shop owner) could buy them from. That's obviously something a soon-to-be shop owner needs to research ;-) -- http://lars.marowsky-bree.de/disclaimer.html http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/wis.../ref=wl_em_to/ |
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:56:35 GMT, "Tea" > wrote:
>> >I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers know >something about the kinds of products they want to sell? Nevertheless, my >two cents- Valrhona, Callebaut and Scharffen-Berger are all very good, and >they make large bars. Scharffen-Berger and Michel Cluizel also make >excellent chocolate. I would suggest that you come to the next annual >Chocolate Show in New York (it's in November, and it has a website) so you >can meet with some of the world's top chocolate makers and get some answers >to your questions. > I can understand your surprise. This is a new venture and I am not a chocolate afficiando at this point. The good news is that we are a year out from opening and I plan to learn as much as I can during that time. Usenet has served me well over the years as members of groups for any particular hobby are usually rather passionate and will steer you straight on what is good and what's not. I hope to make that show in NY. -Linus |
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How would you rate Guittard? "Premium consumer", "high-end", or "elite"?
Alex Rast wrote: >at Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:36:51 GMT in >, >(Linus) wrote : > > > >>On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:56:35 GMT, "Tea" > wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers >>>know something about the kinds of products they want to sell? >>>Nevertheless, my two cents- Valrhona, Callebaut and Scharffen-Berger >>>are all very good, and they make large bars. Scharffen-Berger and >>>Michel Cluizel also make excellent chocolate. I would suggest that you >>>come to the next annual Chocolate Show in New York (it's in November, >>>and it has a website) so you can meet with some of the world's top >>>chocolate makers and get some answers to your questions. >>> >>> >>> >>I can understand your surprise. This is a new venture and I am not a >>chocolate afficiando at this point. ... >> >> >> >What's given you an interest in starting up a chocolate store? Knowing what >your focus and direction is would help a lot for me and other people to >give you advice. > >As to chocolatiers, the ones mentioned above are among some of the good >starting points. Each of them is fairly well-known and widely distributed. >Among quality chocolates, there are, roughly, 3 groups, the "premium >consumer", the "high-end" and the "elite". In the first group are generally >larger industrial companies that nonetheless produce first-rate chocolate, >such as Ghirardelli, Callebaut, and recently, Lindt to a certain extent. In >the second group are smaller companies, aiming for a more exclusive group >of chocolate-lovers, but who may not necessarily be out to produce the best >chocolate possible at any price. Now, this by no means implies that they're >making compromises, or that their chocolate isn't great, it simply means >that ultimate quality isn't necessarily the only priority for them. >Companies like Valrhona, Scharffen Berger, and El Rey are arguably in this >group. Finally, the third group represents chocolatiers who pursue the best >chocolate with fanatical obsession and stop at nothing, regardless of cost. >Cluizel is perhaps in this group (it must be said that he is decidedly >larger and more commercially-oriented than anyone else in this class) along >with other companies like Domori, Amedei, and Bonnat. Generally speaking, a >premium consumer bar will be about $2.50/100g bar, a high-end $4.00/100g, >and an elite $5.50/100g or more. > >You have to be careful, though, because the target market segment doesn't >have a direct relation to actual quality - in other words, there are >"premium consumer" companies that tend to be better than specific "elite" >companies. The other thing is that different companies have different >signature flavours. For instance, Scharffen Berger and Valrhona are >strongly fruity, Cluizel and Domori tend towards milder fruitiness mixed >with spicy overtones, and Pralus is very, very dark and coffee-like. >Valrhona and Cluizel are ultra-smooth, while Bonnat is rougher and more >rustic. Etc. etc. > >If I were starting out, I'd want to get a cross-section of different styles >and market segments, without so many brands that it's overwhelming to the >consumer or impossible to manage from a business perspective. A good >selection might be Scharffen Berger, Valrhona, Cluizel, Guittard, El Rey, >and Domori. > >As to distributors, Van Rex (http://www.vanrex.com) distributes multiple >brands including Valrhona and Guittard, Vintage Chocolates >(http://www.echocolates.com) distributes several more, including Cluizel >(they're the exclusive distributor for them, in fact), and Dairyland >(http://www.dairylandusa.com) has others, including Domori. The easiest way >to get a distributor list is usually to ask the manufacturer directly, from >whom you can also generally get samples so you can evaluate them before >taking on their line. Be aware that some distributors and manufacturers are >easy to work with, while others can be difficult, or idiosyncratic. You'll >find out as you go along who they are - generally people in the industry >are all pretty familiar with the easy and the difficult companies. > >That's a start - do let me know what your purpose and plans are and then I >can direct you further. > > > > |
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"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
... > What's given you an interest in starting up a chocolate store? Knowing what > your focus and direction is would help a lot for me and other people to > give you advice. > <snip> Alex, As always, you have provided some excellent advice. Might I suggest charging the OP a consulting fee for your services? You seem to know more than they do and it seems a shame to provide so much information for free. rona -- ***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!*** |
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at Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:04:42 GMT in
>, (Stuart S. Berr) wrote : >How would you rate Guittard? "Premium consumer", "high-end", or >"elite"? Premium Consumer. I want to emphasize again, that the groupings I mentioned don't bear a direct relationship to the quality of the chocolate produced. Rather, they have to do with market position. In addition, everybody has their own taste, which will make some brands seem better, some worse in their eyes. Guittard has 2 distinct lines, the "regular" Guittard line and the "Selection Etienne" The "Etienne" line has a decidedly higher-end position. In my own tastings, I found the *overall* quality to be basically similar, but the flavour profile to be different. The regular series aims for a more balanced, simpler "chocolatey" flavour. Meanwhile, the Etienne has much more complex flavours where one can discern individual fruity, or spicy, or tobacco, or floral notes. The Etienne collection are also conched for considerably longer, so they are smoother, and the finish is better. Snap is much improved. But the regular series have an unusually well-balanced purity of chocolate flavour, without anything harsh or insipid. Both lines feature among their products chocolates that I would consider to be among the best in the world, regardless of price or market position. In fairness, however, I will point out that they both also include other chocolates that at best are only average to fair. This kind of spread is typical. It's extremely rare for a producer to have consistently great chocolate across their entire line. -- Alex Rast (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply) |
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Hi, Linus,
Where in the Southeast will you be located? When I was running a business several years ago I dealt often with a company called Tropical Nut and Fruit. You can find them on the web at: http://www.tropicalnutandfruit.com/ Good luck on your venture!! Mary Linus wrote: > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:56:35 GMT, "Tea" > wrote: > > > >>I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers know >>something about the kinds of products they want to sell? Nevertheless, my >>two cents- Valrhona, Callebaut and Scharffen-Berger are all very good, and >>they make large bars. Scharffen-Berger and Michel Cluizel also make >>excellent chocolate. I would suggest that you come to the next annual >>Chocolate Show in New York (it's in November, and it has a website) so you >>can meet with some of the world's top chocolate makers and get some answers >>to your questions. >> > > I can understand your surprise. This is a new venture and I am not a > chocolate afficiando at this point. The good news is that we are a > year out from opening and I plan to learn as much as I can during that > time. Usenet has served me well over the years as members of groups > for any particular hobby are usually rather passionate and will steer > you straight on what is good and what's not. I hope to make that show > in NY. > -Linus > |
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Hi, Linus,
Where in the Southeast will you be located? When I was running a business several years ago I dealt often with a company called Tropical Nut and Fruit. You can find them on the web at: http://www.tropicalnutandfruit.com/ Good luck on your venture!! Mary Linus wrote: > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:56:35 GMT, "Tea" > wrote: > > > >>I must admit that I'm surprised. Wouldn't most potential retailers know >>something about the kinds of products they want to sell? Nevertheless, my >>two cents- Valrhona, Callebaut and Scharffen-Berger are all very good, and >>they make large bars. Scharffen-Berger and Michel Cluizel also make >>excellent chocolate. I would suggest that you come to the next annual >>Chocolate Show in New York (it's in November, and it has a website) so you >>can meet with some of the world's top chocolate makers and get some answers >>to your questions. >> > > I can understand your surprise. This is a new venture and I am not a > chocolate afficiando at this point. The good news is that we are a > year out from opening and I plan to learn as much as I can during that > time. Usenet has served me well over the years as members of groups > for any particular hobby are usually rather passionate and will steer > you straight on what is good and what's not. I hope to make that show > in NY. > -Linus > |
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in article , Linus at
wrote on 2/8/04 3:34 PM: > My wife and I are in the early stages of opening a retail location > that will feature quality chocolates and candy. > > Can anyone recommend some wholesalers and particular brands of > chocolate that are of excellent quality and also value. > > I am in the SouthEast region and am concerned with chocolate melting > during summer months, especially during shipping. How is the problem > combatted? > -Linus > Linus: The questions are so vague as to be almost meaningless. Alex Rast, as usual, ha done a great job in responding with very specific comments about particular chocolate recommendations, but before you start debating the merits of Cluizel vs Guittard it is very important to step back and take a bigger picture look: 1) Who is your market? What's the demographic? Are people going to expect to pay $15/lb or $50? Is the market kids, adults - how old? What's the closest competition -- locally and conceptually. Who are you going to be like? Who are you NOT going to be like? 2) Are you selling chocolates (i.e., confections) or chocolate (bars)? Very few companies that manufacture chocolate also make confections or candy. 3) Are you going to be selling well-known brands or artisanal brands? European or American? 4) What else is in the product mix? Hot and cold beverages? Pastries? Anything hand-made on premises or repackaged? 5) The old cliché is fast, cheap, good - pick any two. Excellent quality and value are very subjective terms. At $90+/lb the Amedei Porcelana is excellent quality and value to people who know that they are eating (I know, there are people on this list who purchased quite of bit of it from me a couple of months ago). Knowing what's a great value at $15 pound is harder - you have to rely on your own taste sensibility and be true to the image you are trying to project. 6) The Chocolate Show, while good, is too narrow a venue to get a true feeling for the market and what's available. You need to visit the Fancy Food Show. End of June, New York City. 7) Someone mentioned that you should hire {Alex Rast} as a consultant. Not a bad idea. One of my clients started selling their hand-made truffles about last Thanksgiving and just opened up their first retail location -- today as a matter of fact, in Tennessee. One of the services I provided was a walking tour of the Fancy Food Show last June. I like to think that I helped them avoid a number of costly mistakes as well as get to market much faster. You're probably hiring other consultants (e.g., an architect) and it makes a huge amount of sense to hire someone to help you with this. My 33%, Clay ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Clay Gordon President, pureorigin www.chocophile.com |
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The replies I've gotten have been wonderful. Especially Alex and
Clay...Thank You! To be more specific, the business is going to be tied in with a Candy Bouquet service. The product mix that I am envisioning will be candy bouquets, fudge, chocolates, confections, greeting cards, and miscellaneous gift items. This idea is literally only about a week or so old and I used my question here as sort of a springboard for some ideas and a general direction where to go. The business will be owned and operated by my wife and I. She will quit her job and work full time while I'll be part time. I am 34 years old and have a BS in in business (Finance and Mgmt Science) but no experience as an entrepreneur. It has been my dream to start and run a successful business. I think this business suits mine and my wife's personalities and I love chocolate as much as anyone. I haven't been exposed to any high end brands, but don't necessarily see that as a detriment at this point. I'm currently working on the business plan and my primary target market is men and women between 30 and 50. I anticipate that the candy bouquets will drive the most revenue with the chocolates, fudge, and confections coming a strong second and the greeting cards and small gifts just being a supplement.. We are about a year out from opening as the location that we are shooting for is currently under development and will be an upscale, outdoor shopping mall. It should be good for a lot of foot traffic and will be between 1100 and 1400 square feet. I don't know how much of a market there will be for high-end and above grade chocolate. While there isn't any local competition in that category, I imagine that the chocolate lovers like yourselves have favorite distributors or retailers who ship to you cheaper than what I could sell it for from a retail business. Right now I'm envisioning having a supply of Lindt, Ghirardelli, and Scharffen Berger bars, truffles from Dan's Chocolates. Beyond that I am still researching for other types of confections and fudge. I'm still very apprehensive at this point as is my wife. We have talked about running a business for years and have never gone through with it. This time, I think we have the right idea and will have the right plan. -Linus On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:34:20 GMT, Linus > wrote: >My wife and I are in the early stages of opening a retail location >that will feature quality chocolates and candy. > >Can anyone recommend some wholesalers and particular brands of >chocolate that are of excellent quality and also value. > >I am in the SouthEast region and am concerned with chocolate melting >during summer months, especially during shipping. How is the problem >combatted? >-Linus |
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Many wholesellers will not ship chocolate in the hot weather.
You will have to plan ahead, and double bag and freeze chocolate for use in warmer months. Just remember to thaw thoroughly, while it is still bagged. No air into the frozen chocolate, or it will condence into water, and you will have one large chocolate mess...unusable for melting or dipping. "Linus" > wrote in message ... > My wife and I are in the early stages of opening a retail location > that will feature quality chocolates and candy. > > Can anyone recommend some wholesalers and particular brands of > chocolate that are of excellent quality and also value. > > I am in the SouthEast region and am concerned with chocolate melting > during summer months, especially during shipping. How is the problem > combatted? > -Linus > |
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Hi Joan.
I am a trained chocolatier and have had a chocolate business in India for the past two years. As you know the temperatures here are quite high. There are two ways of handling warm weather shipments. One is to use compund chocolate with a higher melting point, and the other is by using nomal couverture and packing your cartons with a padding of ice gel packs. I hope this info is useful If you do need any more info or would like to chat on this subject..please do write to me on |
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(Max Koneru) wrote in message . com>...
> Hi Joan. > I am a trained chocolatier and have had a chocolate business in India > for the past two years. As you know the temperatures here are quite > high. There are two ways of handling warm weather shipments. One is to > use compund chocolate with a higher melting point, and the other is by > using nomal couverture and packing your cartons with a padding of ice > gel packs. I hope this info is useful If you do need any more info or > would like to chat on this subject..please do write to me on > HEY HEY...that's pretty hot. a chocolate store thingy in INDIA!!!...i'm totaly flying to india to get sum of your chocolate! |
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