I absolutely adore chocolate, whenever and whereever! Even chocolate
spread is delicious eaten by the teaspoon. It is a women's best
friend.

(dawn) wrote in news:99da95ad.0405110340.29ab02f5
@posting.google.com:

> I absolutely adore chocolate, whenever and whereever! Even chocolate
> spread is delicious eaten by the teaspoon. It is a women's best
> friend.

Waitrose in Cheltenham sells Michel Cluziel, which is a very nice
chocolate. I have a terrible memory, so I can't remember the name of the
type I prefered, but it had a blue not orange band.

They also sell rococo, which I haven't tried yet, but I will soon.

<http://www.rococochocolates.com/chillidark.0.html>

Don't be tempted by "new tree milk chocolate with Lavender", it's pretty
unpleasant.


Can I ask, do you work or study at GlosCAT, and do they do any choclatier
courses?

--
Kill-filers:
My screen name changes,
My email address doesn't.

at Tue, 11 May 2004 16:24:52 GMT in
>, 28762153
@tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :

(dawn) wrote in news:99da95ad.0405110340.29ab02f5
:
>
>> I absolutely adore chocolate, whenever and whereever! Even chocolate
>> spread is delicious eaten by the teaspoon. It is a women's best
>> friend.
>
>Waitrose in Cheltenham sells Michel Cluziel, which is a very nice
>chocolate. I have a terrible memory, so I can't remember the name of the
>type I prefered, but it had a blue not orange band.

Blue square at the top center of the wrapper = Amer Brut 72% (superb)
Blue border to the entire wrapper = Ilha Toma (excellent) or
Hacienda Tamarina (very good)

Orange border to the entire wrapper = Hacienda Concepcion (excellent)

Ilha Toma has largely been replaced by Hacienda Tamarina so don't expect
to see it return any time soon.

Cluizel is indeed one of the best chocolatiers in the world, perhaps the
best overall for chocolate bars, looking across the range. The Amer Brut is
IMHO somewhat better than Tamarina or Ilha Toma. Look for a bar with a
green border: Hacienda Los Ancones. This is the best of his 1er cru
collections - the single-origin bars - and by most accounts one of the best
chocolates ever made. The consensus seems to be pretty unanimously
enthusiastic on this one.

Also, if you like milk chocolate, definitely try Chocolat Grand Lait Cacao
Pur Ile de Java 50% (salmon square at the top of the bar). This is (at
least IMHO, the best milk chocolate in the world.

And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99% - unsweetened chocolate
for eating (it's also great for baking, btw). This is the surest test of
how much you like chocolate: those who really like chocolate will love it.
Those who are in truth sugar-holics rather than chocoholics will not be
thrilled with it.

>
>They also sell rococo, which I haven't tried yet, but I will soon.

Good, but a lot of the bars are simply repackaged Valrhona. Valrhona is on
a similar high plane to Cluizel quality-wise, but tend towards a much more
fruity flavour. As a result it's more polarising - you will either like it
or strongly dislike it.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Noir Infini 99%

Alex, The Noir Infini seems to be "out of stock". Is Cluizel having
problems?


> And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99% - unsweetened chocolate
> for eating (it's also great for baking, btw). This is the surest test of
> how much you like chocolate: those who really like chocolate will love it.
> Those who are in truth sugar-holics rather than chocoholics will not be
> thrilled with it.

(Alex Rast) wrote in
:

> at Tue, 11 May 2004 16:24:52 GMT in
> >, 28762153
> @tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :

[snip]

>>Waitrose in Cheltenham sells Michel Cluziel, which is a very nice
>>chocolate. I have a terrible memory, so I can't remember the name of
>>the type I prefered, but it had a blue not orange band.
>
> Blue square at the top center of the wrapper = Amer Brut 72% (superb)
> Blue border to the entire wrapper = Ilha Toma (excellent)
> or Hacienda Tamarina (very good)

It was Hacienda Tamarina. It's the best chocolate I've had so far. I'm
working my way through them.

> Orange border to the entire wrapper = Hacienda Concepcion (excellent)

This is the other one I tried. I didn't like it a as much as Hacienda
Tamarina, I think because of the texture.

[snip]

> Cluizel is indeed one of the best chocolatiers in the world, perhaps
> the best overall for chocolate bars, looking across the range. The
> Amer Brut is IMHO somewhat better than Tamarina or Ilha Toma. Look for
> a bar with a green border: Hacienda Los Ancones. This is the best of
> his 1er cru collections - the single-origin bars - and by most
> accounts one of the best chocolates ever made. The consensus seems to
> be pretty unanimously enthusiastic on this one.

I'll keep an eye out for that.

> And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99% - unsweetened
> chocolate for eating (it's also great for baking, btw). This is the
> surest test of how much you like chocolate: those who really like
> chocolate will love it. Those who are in truth sugar-holics rather
> than chocoholics will not be thrilled with it.

I'll give that a go, but I think I'll need to let my palette develop
first.

Thanks for the information.



--
Kill-filers:
My screen name changes,
My email address doesn't.

at Wed, 12 May 2004 15:29:50 GMT in
>, 28762153
@tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :

(Alex Rast) wrote in
:
>
>> at Tue, 11 May 2004 16:24:52 GMT in
>> >, 28762153
>> @tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :
>
>[snip]
>
>>>Waitrose in Cheltenham sells Michel Cluziel,...
>> Blue border to the entire wrapper = Ilha Toma (excellent)
>> or Hacienda Tamarina (very good)
>
>It was Hacienda Tamarina. It's the best chocolate I've had so far. I'm
>working my way through them.
>
>> Orange border to the entire wrapper = Hacienda Concepcion (excellent)
>
>This is the other one I tried. I didn't like it a as much as Hacienda
>Tamarina, I think because of the texture.

I haven't detected any discernible differences in the texture between
either bar. What did you find to be different texturally?

Perchance did the surface of the Hacienda Concepcion bar look very slightly
whitish or greyish, as if a light film of dust had descended on it? It
should look shiny and reddish-brown. If it did look dusty, you are the
victim of indifferent storage (excessive heat or humidity cycling) and got
a bloomed chocolate bar. If it had bloomed, it would have been much drier
in consistency and flatter, less intense in flavour. The bar would have
splintered rather easily. Whenever you get a chocolate bar with bloom on
it, you should return it to the store and get an exchange or refund. Also
explain what happened (bloom due to temperature or humidity cycling) so
they are aware of the problem and can fix their storage or shelving. Don't
let them try to get away with telling you that the quality of chocolate
which has bloomed is unaffected. This is a MYTH, promulgated, I suspect, by
less-than-honest shippers, or possibly chocolate manufacturers, in order to
minimise their losses. Chocolate which has bloomed is DEFINITELY diminished
in quality and if you got one of those for your tasting of Hacienda
Concepcion you owe it to yourself to try it again, after getting a bar with
no bloom: you wouldn't have given it a fair test the first time.

....
>> And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99%...
>
>I'll give that a go, but I think I'll need to let my palette develop
>first.
>
Not necessarily. It's worth jumping in feetfirst, to find out how much you
really like chocolate. Don't be afraid or think it's an acquired taste - if
you genuinely like chocolate, you'll love it right away. Honestly, I think
that if a taste has to be acquired, it's more of an indication that you
don't really basically like the thing at all, and that you're simply
convincing yourself that you do because popular pressure is telling you
that you "should" like it. To a large extent, I believe, what you liked as
a kid is the most reliable indicator of what you really like, because kids
at an early age don't succumb so easily to social pressure as to what they
should like to eat.

To the person finding Noir Infini out of stock - no, I don't believe it's a
production problem. Most likely stocks are just running low because of high
popularity and the approaching summer. Most chocolatiers stop shipping in
the summer, for obvious reasons, and so as a result as summer gets near
stocks tend to disappear. You might need to wait until September/October.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

If you really want Michel Cluizel's Noir Infini, I found they are still in
stock at Chocosphere. The regular bars are out of stock (back in 6/5/04,
they say), but the "Noir Infini Squares" are in stock for $12 per.

Haven't tried this yet myself, but hey, I'm in chocolate heaven already what
with having Chocosphere here in my home town! I picked up a selection of
chocolate for my mom for Mother's Day last week, from their warehouse
will/call.

What I >am< working on, is an Excel spreadsheet of all the chocolates I've
tried and my "take" on them. The chart is getting rather large. At some
point I'll have to forsake Chocosphere to buy the chocolates they don't
carry...

Geoff

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
> To the person finding Noir Infini out of stock - no, I don't believe it's
a
> production problem. Most likely stocks are just running low because of
high
> popularity and the approaching summer. Most chocolatiers stop shipping in
> the summer, for obvious reasons, and so as a result as summer gets near
> stocks tend to disappear. You might need to wait until September/October.

at Thu, 13 May 2004 05:03:58 GMT in <1lDoc.37462$iF6.3770436@attbi_s02>,
(Geoff) wrote :

>If you really want Michel Cluizel's Noir Infini, I found they are still
>in stock at Chocosphere. The regular bars are out of stock (back in
>6/5/04, they say), but the "Noir Infini Squares" are in stock for $12
>per.

The little squares are probably ideal for most people, because Noir Infini
delivers quite a whack. If you're interested in a real taste-test, you
should try 50g at a time, but for a quick chocolate "hit" when you need it,
the squares would probably work well. Noir Infini is the ultimate product
to satisfy a chocolate craving, and you only need a little bit. Nothing
else chocolate I've ever had comes even close on the satisfaction gained to
amount consumed ratio.

>What I >am< working on, is an Excel spreadsheet of all the chocolates
>I've tried and my "take" on them. The chart is getting rather large.
>At some point I'll have to forsake Chocosphere to buy the chocolates
>they don't carry...

I have an Excel template, if you're really interested in getting serious in
terms of tasting and evaluating. It includes cells both for numerical
ratings and qualitative descriptions. It also includes a calculated
overall, based on sub-ratings. This is interesting to compare against your
stated overall (i.e. there's a calculated overall rating and another
overall rating that you can simply fill in) to see how much correlation
there is between your assessment of the chocolate in a particular area and
your overall opinion, or between your "objective" rating and your
"subjective" rating.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Alex Rast wrote:

> And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99% - unsweetened
> chocolate for eating (it's also great for baking, btw). This is the
> surest test of how much you like chocolate: those who really
> like chocolate will love it. Those who are in truth sugar-holics
> rather than chocoholics will not be thrilled with it.

There you go again, with your "sugar-holics" theory.
Think back to when you were a child -- would you
have liked a 99% bar?

It's like chili peppers. I love chili pepper, and always
have. But 20 years ago, I could not have handled
the level I enjoy now. 20 years ago, I would have
been on the floor writhing in pain after eating a mere
6 Thai chili peppers. Now, I typically use 6 Habanero
chili peppers just to make a bowl of soup, and I
typically eat that much (or its equivalent) every day.
Sometimes more, sometimes much more. If I can't find
good peppers in the supermarkets, in a bowl of soup
I'll substitute a teaspoon (approx.) of Dave's Insanity
chili sauce -- the chili equivalent of a 99% bar.

Now, I don't go around saying that people who enjoy
Tabasco sauce are "addicted to vinegar" or "vinegar-holics".
I'm simply adjusted to a higher level of tolerance and
appreciation for capsaicin than other people. I don't
suggest that people who enjoy Tabasco aren't chili lovers,
or that the test of whether someone really loves chili is
whether or not they like Dave's Insanity sauce.

NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
On Sun, 16 May 2004 15:20:40 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Now, I don't go around saying that people who enjoy
>Tabasco sauce are "addicted to vinegar" or "vinegar-holics".
>I'm simply adjusted to a higher level of tolerance and
>appreciation for capsaicin than other people.

We have all had our taste buds adjusted to one level or another of
certain substances. People end up "learning" to have a "sweet tooth"
or "needing" more salt than they really need in their diets. Its all
learned, and we can unlearn these things. So, perhaps they aren't
really "addictions" per se, but they can be very difficult to
discontinue.

We need to learn how to appreciate and even love the things that are
good for us - like spinach and... dark, unsweetened chocolate.

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davidac AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~

at Sun, 16 May 2004 15:20:40 GMT in >,
(Mark Thorson) wrote :

>Alex Rast wrote:
>
>> And for the true chocoholic, try Noir Infini 99% - unsweetened
>> chocolate for eating (it's also great for baking, btw). This is the
>> surest test of how much you like chocolate: those who really
>> like chocolate will love it. Those who are in truth sugar-holics
>> rather than chocoholics will not be thrilled with it.
>
>There you go again, with your "sugar-holics" theory.
>Think back to when you were a child -- would you
>have liked a 99% bar?

I could and I did. I used to eat unsweetened chocolate all the time - at
least when I could get my hands on decent chocolate rather than Baker's,
which I hated. I can remember pigging out on unsweetened chocolate when I
was 7.

I don't see many adults giving their kids even the opportunity to try a
quality dark bittersweet bar, which is too bad. I would think it's better
to let your kids try everything, and decide for themselves whether they
liked it, than to make an assumption about whether a kid would like
something or not and expose it to them or withhold it from them based on
that assumption. What's the worst that can happen? That they'll spit it
out? Fine - they and you know they don't like it. But if they do like it,
I'm guessing that starts to expand their horizons as to what foods are
likely to be edible, minimising the risk of the kid who won't eat anything
but the standard items.

>It's like chili peppers. I love chili pepper, and always
>have. But 20 years ago, I could not have handled
>the level I enjoy now. 20 years ago, I would have
>been on the floor writhing in pain after eating a mere
>6 Thai chili peppers. Now, I typically use 6 Habanero
>chili peppers just to make a bowl of soup, and I
>typically eat that much (or its equivalent) every day.
>Sometimes more, sometimes much more. If I can't find
>good peppers in the supermarkets, in a bowl of soup
>I'll substitute a teaspoon (approx.) of Dave's Insanity
>chili sauce -- the chili equivalent of a 99% bar.

Interesting. Is there a connection between chocolate and chile? I don't
know, but again, at a very young age, I liked unbelievably hot levels of
chile. This time, I think it was at age 11 that I can remember distinctly
flavouring a single serving of chili con carne (on a camping trip) with 8
thai chiles, 4 tbsp of chili powder, and 2 tsp of cayenne, and loving it.
Now, with chiles, however, I do think there's one additional issue - the
question of body-mass to capsaicin ratio. Adults have a lot more body mass
to absorb the capsaicin and thus it might be the case that they could
absorb more.

And I won't deny that people build up levels of tolerance. It takes more
chocolate to satisfy me now than it would in the past, simply because my
tolerance is so high that the effect of the drugs doesn't really show until
the amount of consumption is pretty extreme.

However, people also have an instant reaction to something - like or
dislike at first taste. If you feed somebody a small amount of something,
and they like it, it's safe to say it's something they enjoy at a real
level. If they're somewhat taken aback, but otherwise neutral, they might
actually like it or they might hate it - here they're probably just
unfamiliar with it. Finally, if their reaction is one of distaste, they
probably don't like it at a basic level, although they can probably learn
at least to tolerate it eventually.




--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

I don't think many Americans have ever tasted good dark chocolate. In most
stores you cannot find it.

Since I started trying the many types of non-milk chocolate, my kids
(ranging from 15 down to 5) have come to prefer it. They may still eat milk
chocolate now and then, but they note the great difference in taste and
quality. They've also been surprised that dark chocolate can taste so
sweet, yet richer in chocolate flavor than what they're used to.

I also ate (well, gnawed on) Baker's unsweetened chocolate as a kid. My
5-year-old girl loves chocolate-covered coffee beans, while most people I
know will spit them out if they accidentally eat one!

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
> at Sun, 16 May 2004 15:20:40 GMT in >,
> I don't see many adults giving their kids even the opportunity to try a
> quality dark bittersweet bar, which is too bad.

at Thu, 20 May 2004 02:23:53 GMT in <ZEUqc.26428$gr.2357008@attbi_s52>,
(Geoff) wrote :

>I don't think many Americans have ever tasted good dark chocolate. In
>most stores you cannot find it.

You can find good dark chocolate in many, if indeed not most, stores in the
USA, thanks to Ghirardelli. Ghirardelli Bittersweet and Semisweet chocolate
are both excellent and widely available. It's also worth noting that
Ghirardelli Milk chocolate is also excellent - in fact, better than
virtually all of the European brands.

I think the real problem is lack of education. Very few people in the USA
(or for that matter, anywhere) are ever told that there even *are*
significant differences in quality between different chocolates, and many
people, once told, might not believe the differences are so starkly night-
and-day as they can be. It's hard to judge simply by looking at the
wrapper, especially when you have no clue which are the quality brands at
the outset. So there's a certain aspect of risk in buying a heretofore
unknown chocolate. Since chocolate is something most people buy as a treat,
why take the risk that your "treat" might turn out to be something you
don't like? Thus people tend to stay with the tried-and-true. It's
especially hard to convince someone to try something new when you're
talking about the difference between spending $4.00 on an unknown chocolate
and 50 cents on the known quantity. In a similar vein, that local mom-n-pop
diner just across the street might have much better food than the
McDonald's, but what's the probability that a random driver coming in off
the interstate is going to stop at each? It's not hard to see which one is
going to get more business.

The best way to approach this is to pass out good chocolate to anybody who
likes chocolate that you get to know. They'll quickly discover how vast the
differences are and it won't take long before you've got a new chocophile.
Kids are especially good with this because as I've noted before they'll
pretty much accept any chocolate proffered at them without preconceived
notions. And they'll learn. (Of course, you can end up creating a monster -
a kid who demands nothing less than outrageous quantities of extremely
expensive chocolate...)

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

(Mark Thorson) wrote :
> >There you go again, with your "sugar-holics" theory.
> >Think back to when you were a child -- would you
> >have liked a 99% bar?

Well I just gave my two 5 year-old daughters chunks of Noir Infini 99%. They
both loved it. They also liked the 72% Amer Brut. Just a data point

Steve

I think dark chocolate is perfectly fine for children.


"SRC" > wrote in message >...
> (Mark Thorson) wrote :
> > >There you go again, with your "sugar-holics" theory.
> > >Think back to when you were a child -- would you
> > >have liked a 99% bar?
>
> Well I just gave my two 5 year-old daughters chunks of Noir Infini 99%. They
> both loved it. They also liked the 72% Amer Brut. Just a data point
>
> Steve

(Alex Rast) wrote in
:

> at Wed, 12 May 2004 15:29:50 GMT in
> >, 28762153
> @tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :
>
(Alex Rast) wrote in
:
>>
>>> at Tue, 11 May 2004 16:24:52 GMT in
>>> >, 28762153
>>> @tmicha.net (Demetrius Zeluff) wrote :
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>>Waitrose in Cheltenham sells Michel Cluziel,...
>>> Blue border to the entire wrapper = Ilha Toma (excellent)
>>> or Hacienda Tamarina (very good)
>>
>>It was Hacienda Tamarina. It's the best chocolate I've had so far.
>>I'm working my way through them.
>>
>>> Orange border to the entire wrapper = Hacienda Concepcion
>>> (excellent)
>>
>>This is the other one I tried. I didn't like it a as much as Hacienda
>>Tamarina, I think because of the texture.
>
> I haven't detected any discernible differences in the texture between
> either bar. What did you find to be different texturally?

If I hold a chunk at the roof of my mouth and allow it to melt, witha bit
of pressure from my tongue, the chocolate goes 'buttery', that's the best
I can describe it.

> Perchance did the surface of the Hacienda Concepcion bar look very
> slightly whitish or greyish

[snip bloom]

Oh no! I should say that it was excellent chocolate, probably amoung the
best I've tried, but if I had to pick one of the two Cluziel bars I'd
pick the other one.

where is the chocolate come from?

I didn't tast this chocolate before, but i think it would be delicous.

Could you tell me where does that chocolate come from

Dear friends chocolate is a delicious food who comme from coco,is very
nice to body add with milk and sugar, we can make the fantastics
meals, in cakes, sweets, and other.

I like chocolate, and i know that, chocolate is a healthy food for our
boby if we don't exagerate. I prefer which made with milk, sugar,
mint.

HI!

I would like to have more information about the Hacianda Tamarina.

Thank you.

I like chocolate, and i know that, chocolate is a healthy food for our
boby if we don't exagerate. I prefer which made with milk, sugar,
mint.