For natural gas cooking, is there a table of BTU ratings available for
cooking things like steak, using a wok, frying a egg, etc. All I remember
from chem and phys classes were BTU for boiling water at standard STP.

I'm looking at natural gas ranges for the kitchen and see ratings for
burners with something like 12,000 BTUs. Is there any normal cooking
situations where you need more?

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:56:02 +0000, Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:12:52 -0800, # Fred # wrote:
>
>> I'm looking at natural gas ranges for the kitchen and see ratings for
>> burners with something like 12,000 BTUs. Is there any normal cooking
>> situations where you need more?
>

I depends on your needs entirely, do you boil huge amounts of water? Have
a stock pot an average american man can fit in? You'll probably be fine
with normal cooking. I think boiling water gotta be the biggest one.

My advice shouldn't be taken to seriously, I'm not all that knowledgeable
about cooking. Although I think in the Art of French Cooking Julia says an
electric stove is better than a weak gas stove.




> Decent wok cooking needs 60K-120K BTU's. Sometimes more.

If your in a restaurant fine, but at home, 32,000 is more than
enough. Famous cooks like Florence Lin and Martin Yan use electric stoves
when they cook for themselves. I guess they are not decent wok cooks?

My outdoor wok stove is 32,000 and gets te wok red hot...which I found out
by accident. I think it's good for up to 24inch woks. Too much heat is a
bad thing....

I won't argue that restaurants need higher btu's like that. Even then only
for some tasks. But for home cooking....nope, and that's not just my
opinion.

Matthew
Ohio

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:20:11 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>Restaurant wok burners are between 160-300 *thousand* BTU's. Yes,
>for high volume cooking this is essential. But even for home
>cooking, 60K is considered a minimum.

I keep hearing about 300K BTU wok burners, but the biggest I have ever
seen is 150K per burner.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:20:11 -0600, Steve Wertz wrote:

>
> "I'm not all that knowledgeable about cooking"
>
> And leave it at that.

It's called humility, you might try it some time. At least I'm humble
enough to state where I get my information.


>
>> Famous cooks like Florence Lin and Martin Yan use electric stoves
>> when they cook for themselves. I guess they are not decent wok cooks?
>
> Then they're not cooking Chinese food as in the restaurants. You
> can't get the famous Chinese wok taste ("wok hay") without a
> sufficient gas burner. And certainly not on an electric stove.
> What you see being cooked on the TV shows will taste nothing like
> what you get in a restaurant.
>

Florence lin has taught chinese cooking to some very famous critics....I
guess they don't know what wok hay is? If you can keep your wok hot enough
to burn the seasoning off, you'll get wok hay. Electric can do it just
fine with proper preheating and adjusting portions to the heat source.
Heat is heat, you need enough for the wok not to cool down when food is
added.

I guess all the ethnic chinese in this country just can't cook at
home....damn.

Here's something off yans website;
"Most of the Chinese dishes in restaurants seem to be fairly oil. Is
Chinese cooking fattening?

Absolutely not! In the first place, a good Chinese fish should not be
oily. Perhaps the reason why some restaurant dishes are so oily is that
their stoves give of a tremendous amount of heat while the dish is being
cooked; extra oil is used to prevent food from sticking and burning. A
great portion of the ingredients in Chinese dishes are vegetables, which
are low in calories. In addition, the traditional Chinese menu does not
call for too many deep-fried dishes."

I'm pretty sure fish should be dish, it's found in the faq section of
yancancook.com > yan fan club (or something similar)

There is a profesional opinion about super high heat and woks that seems
to elude to too much heat.

I've qouted sources and can qoute more, studied various authors, what have
you done? Offer an opinion with no support. There is plenty in print
about wok hay by ethnic chinese, they can get it at home.

BTW the cantonese are the ones who stress wok hay. Southern china, hong
kong.

In Grace Young's book The Breath of a Wok, she gives tips for getting wok
hay at home. The biggest are pre-heat your wok for a little while and
stir-fry no more than 3-4 cups of veggies or more than 12 ounces of meat
at a time. She's basically an american through and through, she knows
food though.

It's totaly possible to get wok hay at home. Worst case scenario two
batches for a big family.

The trouble there is the wok hay fades as soon as cooking stops.

The above seems like a good portion for a typical chinese meal.

I'm done with this topic.

Matthew

In article >, ost
says...
>
> Then they're not cooking Chinese food as in the restaurants. You
> can't get the famous Chinese wok taste ("wok hay") without a
> sufficient gas burner. And certainly not on an electric stove.
> What you see being cooked on the TV shows will taste nothing like
> what you get in a restaurant.
>
> Restaurant wok burners are between 160-300 *thousand* BTU's. Yes,
> for high volume cooking this is essential. But even for home
> cooking, 60K is considered a minimum.
>
> Maybe you can get that effect with 32K for small portions (I've
> never tried), but that's still almost 3x what the original poster
> was considering.
>
>
Any glimpse into a Chinese restaurant kitchen that I've ever gotten
looked like a sneak-preview of hell. Flames shooting up everywhere from
the stuff being stir-fried, huge billows of steam from woks being
cleaned out in place after a dish is done, *everyone* perspiring
profusely, people running every which way and lots of shouting over the
din of the vent fans. Definitely a high-BTU environment.

Bob

Although I think in the Art of French Cooking Julia says an
> electric stove is better than a weak gas stove.

One of the TV shows checked out Julia Child's refrigerator and found it was
mostly empty except with couple cans of beer in it!

Famous cooks like Florence Lin and Martin Yan use electric stoves
> when they cook for themselves. I guess they are not decent wok cooks?
>

Was that a smooth electrical cooktop or coiled element? Did they use any
special device to transfer the heat from electrical surface to the wok? Wife
having a very hard time using a wok on an electrical burner. We are
switching to gas.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:25:05 -0800, # Fred # wrote:

> Although I think in the Art of French Cooking Julia says an
>> electric stove is better than a weak gas stove.
>
> One of the TV shows checked out Julia Child's refrigerator and found it was
> mostly empty except with couple cans of beer in it!
>

So thats how she gets by with a tiny kitchen.

> Famous cooks like Florence Lin and Martin Yan use electric stoves
>> when they cook for themselves. I guess they are not decent wok cooks?
>>
>
> Was that a smooth electrical cooktop or coiled element? Did they use any
> special device to transfer the heat from electrical surface to the wok? Wife
> having a very hard time using a wok on an electrical burner. We are
> switching to gas.

Re-researching some things, Grace Young says Florence lin reccomends a
flat bottom wok and so does Ken Hom. There are a couple of photos in the
book, I can't tell what type of wok she is using(coil type range). In her
books she recomends a round bottom wok but no mention of heat source (I
think). I prefer the round bottom myself and have a coil type range. Last
night I pan fried some falafel and was able too keep the temp at or above
350. I worked in two batches and about 12 1 inch falafel balls total. Used
the biggest element.

Here is the martin yan reference: http://yancancook.com/faq.htm
question 5

From the wokshop faq at amazon.com

Q: What is the difference between a flat-bottom wok and round bottom wok?
A: The Wok Shop recommends a flat bottom wok if you cook with an electric
stove or a ceramic cook top. The flattened bottom of the wok is approx. 4"
in diameter and will sit stable on the electric burner. You do not use a
wok ring with a flat bottom wok. The round bottom wok is used with a wok
ring which stabilizes/cradles the round bottom wok on a gas stove. A flat
bottom wok can be used efficiently on both gas or electric stoves, and a
round bottom wok woks best on a gas stove. You can use a round bottom wok
on an electric stove, but it will be more difficult to get super hot
especially with the wok ring which elevates the wok from the burner.

I suppose you could notch the wok ring so the bottom contacts the burner.

Eileen Yin-Fei Lo reccomends in the "chinese kitchen" using two burners at
once. One on high and one on low, switch to the low when things get hot.
She uses a flat bottom wok in her portable demos which she uses electric
burners. She says she has a large gas-fired professional range now. Some
of this came from "My grandmothers kitchen".

I use the biggest element with out a wok ring, set it on low for a few
minutes. Come back and see if it's hot enough to sizzle water off my
finger about half-way up or more. Then I crank the heat up. Wait a little
bit more than add the oil.

The biggest problem I've had is getting the wok superhot, it just takes
patience...add wet ingrediants by swirling in the top portion of the wok.
If it's not hot enough to begin with, I get stew. I just read online in a
usnet archive about someone preheating the wok in the oven first. The
first time I added the "sauce" to some stir-fried lettuce.....womp I lost
all the heat. That's when I started preheating more, before the round
bottom wok I had a flat bottom wok with the long wood handle.

If you can get a good gas stove, then do it. Cooking on electric works,
but it sucks. I like to do some or all of the food prep while the wok is
heating. If I had a choice, I'd have a decent wok range. I use my wok all
the time.

I read that if you flip the grate over on a some gas stoves, it
supports the wok nicely. Also I've read that some wok rings don't let
enough air get to the flame so the need to be modified.

I think maybe a 14,000 - 16,000 btu burner might be good for easy home
wokking. But heck, if Yan says electric will work.......I don't think you
need to worry a whole lot.

good luck,
matthew

P.S. If you got time, go to the library and check some of the book authors
out in this thread.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 01:12:35 +0000, MatthewK wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:25:05 -0800, # Fred # wrote:


> So thats how she gets by with a tiny kitchen.
>

Or rather got by. I really used to like the food network until I started
reading some of her books.

matthew

> Here's something off yans website;
> "Most of the Chinese dishes in restaurants seem to be fairly oil. Is
> Chinese cooking fattening?
>
> Absolutely not!

I must say Chinese restaurant and Chinese home cooking is somewhat
different. Chinese restaurant geared for taste (use too much oil and fat for
taste much like butter, sugar and heavy cream used in European style
restaurants) while Chinese home cooking is geared for health with much less
deep fried stuff, more veggies and fish. The proportions are different too
whereas at home the meat dishes are smaller in portions for taste with a
larger portion of rice or noodles. Usually Chinese don't have dessert, wine
or beer at home. Tea is less fattening.

If you check out the Chinese moon cake, (
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...earch+Image s
) it has about as much fat as Mexican refried beans or some soul food
dishes - heart attack on one plate. The difference is moon cake is only
served once a year. So I couldn't say that Chinese food is not fattening
although you have more thinner Chinese in particular and thinner Asians in
general.

"MatthewK" > wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 01:12:35 +0000, MatthewK wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:25:05 -0800, # Fred # wrote:
>
>
>> So thats how she gets by with a tiny kitchen.
>>
>
> Or rather got by. I really used to like the food network until I started
> reading some of her books.
>
> matthew


Her cooks books were rated as one of the most accurate, the same as for
Jamie Oliver. Before her sad passing, This Old House had a few episodes on
Julia Child's kitchen remodel.

The P24WKBS Thermador 24'' Single Burner gets up to 30,000 BTUs but
requires it be built in to the countertop as a surface burners or
stoves are. True professional wok burners get in the 100,000 BTU
range, but require special plumbing and are often against local codes
and insurance companies will void homeowner policies because of them.
That was what I found out in both MAssachusetts and New Jersey.

I ended up with the 30,000 BTYU Thermador and am very happy with it.
Just doubling the BTUs found on regular cooktops makes a significant
difference. On some dishes I can even get aromas and tastes of the
famed wok hay. On all dishes it is much superior to cooktop burners.

If you are redoing a kitchen and can accommodate a 30" additional
cabinet next to the stove, by all means add the Thermador wok burner.

Don't forget that you will also have to get a much larger exhaust
system to cover the range and wok burner.

------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

Delete the two "spam"s for email

In article >,
says...
>
> One of the TV shows checked out Julia Child's refrigerator and found it was
> mostly empty except with couple cans of beer in it!
>
>
>
Prolly for the beer-can chickens she was gonna rustle up on the Weber
after the taping. The chickens were no doubt brining in the cooler at
the time, under the kitchen table. The shows never check there.

Bob

On 1/11/07 12:59 AM, in article ,
"Cape Cod Bob" > wrote:

> The P24WKBS Thermador 24'' Single Burner gets up to 30,000 BTUs but
> requires it be built in to the countertop as a surface burners or
> stoves are. True professional wok burners get in the 100,000 BTU
> range, but require special plumbing and are often against local codes
> and insurance companies will void homeowner policies because of them.
> That was what I found out in both MAssachusetts and New Jersey.
Exactly what insurance agency that writes policies in NJ told you you can't
have a high-power wok burner in a home? And what municipality in NJ said it
was against their building codes? Not all building codes in NJ are uniform.

And what person tells his or her insurance agency what kind of appliances
they have in their own home?

Special plumbing - if your home already is set-up for gas appliances like a
hot water heater, clothes dryer or a house heater, more likely than not
you've got sufficient gas line capacity for a 100k wok burner.
--
de N2MPU Jack
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail/D&H in N
Proud NRA Life Member

Jack wrote:
> On 1/11/07 12:59 AM, in article ,
> "Cape Cod Bob" > wrote:
>
>> The P24WKBS Thermador 24'' Single Burner gets up to 30,000 BTUs but
>> requires it be built in to the countertop as a surface burners or
>> stoves are. True professional wok burners get in the 100,000 BTU
>> range, but require special plumbing and are often against local codes
>> and insurance companies will void homeowner policies because of them.
>> That was what I found out in both MAssachusetts and New Jersey.
> Exactly what insurance agency that writes policies in NJ told you you can't
> have a high-power wok burner in a home? And what municipality in NJ said it
> was against their building codes? Not all building codes in NJ are uniform.
>
> And what person tells his or her insurance agency what kind of appliances
> they have in their own home?

Insurance companies make the rules. I lost coverage when my HOI company
sent an inspector. They don't cover people who keep horses on their
property. I've heard of people being denied coverage because they own
"vicious" breeds of dogs or have swimming pools. It is up to the company
what kind and level of risk they are willing to underwrite.

It's better to have coverage that may cost you a bit more than having
your claims denied because your home was in violation of the policy.

Matthew

--
I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

"Jack" > wrote in message
> Exactly what insurance agency that writes policies in NJ told you you
> can't
> have a high-power wok burner in a home? And what municipality in NJ said
> it
> was against their building codes? Not all building codes in NJ are
> uniform.
>
> And what person tells his or her insurance agency what kind of appliances
> they have in their own home?

I don't know about woks, but commercial ranges are not permitted in a
residential setting unless proper precautions are taken. They are not built
with all the insulation of a typical residential unit and must have
clearances and venting. Codes aside, it is dumb not to do it right and that
is the big problem. Too many homeowners don't or won't.

Cape Cod Bob wrote:
> The P24WKBS Thermador 24'' Single Burner gets up to 30,000 BTUs but
> requires it be built in to the countertop as a surface burners or
> stoves are. True professional wok burners get in the 100,000 BTU
> range, but require special plumbing and are often against local codes
> and insurance companies will void homeowner policies because of them.
> That was what I found out in both MAssachusetts and New Jersey.
>
> I ended up with the 30,000 BTYU Thermador and am very happy with it.
> Just doubling the BTUs found on regular cooktops makes a significant
> difference. On some dishes I can even get aromas and tastes of the
> famed wok hay. On all dishes it is much superior to cooktop burners.
>
> If you are redoing a kitchen and can accommodate a 30" additional
> cabinet next to the stove, by all means add the Thermador wok burner.
>
> Don't forget that you will also have to get a much larger exhaust
> system to cover the range and wok burner.
>
> ------------
> There are no atheists in foxholes
> or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
> game.
> ____
>
> Cape Cod Bob
>
> Delete the two "spam"s for email

We are remodeling our kitchen and was planning on getting a standard
30" gas range + a standalone wok burner like Thermador or DCS. What
did you do for your Ventilation?

We are thinking of 2 30" Vent-A-Hood so if we don't need to turn on
both hood when just using the wok or the range?

Thanks.